Super Turbo Ranking Chart 2013

2

Comments

  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I'm not sure why they feel Honda v. Sim is in Honda's favor. It really shouldn't be. I'll have to watch how they handle the matchup. It's a very reaction-based matchup, and it's a tough one to crack, but it's most definitely in Sim's favor at 6-4. I feel like it requires Sim to establish a good life lead early on, which will allow him to absorb trades later on during the round in order to finish odd Honda.

    And MAO's reasoning for why DJ beats Claw most likely stems from his experiences fighting Ito. I think he mentioned this last year during ToL.
  • TheMuffinManTheMuffinMan 「満」 「寸」 「越」 Joined: Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 2013
    Fudd wrote: »
    OSagat vs DJ is 5-5?? (According to the averages)
    Why did Muffin rate that fight at 6.5?

    Error! It should've been EDIT: 3.5 - 6.5 in O.Gat's favor.

    Thanks, Jizzon. Wasn't thinking straight.
    Post edited by TheMuffinMan on
    "That you float along in the ocean and live a life of peace does not come from your own resourcefulness." - Demon's Sermon on Martial Arts
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    4.5 - 5.5, or 3.5 -6.5?
  • RandomRandom Joined: Posts: 322
    Interesting. If I'm reading this right, Ryu and Ken dominate. I wish HDR would get another tier update.
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Yogaboy's thing is really cool- you can look up a particular character's favorable/unfavorable matchups, or see all of them listed!
    Random wrote: »
    Interesting. If I'm reading this right, Ryu and Ken dominate. I wish HDR would get another tier update.

    Ryu comes in just under the top tier characters, and Ken lower than average (note the very bottom row, and far right column of "+/-". You can effectively ignore the "total" row, it's just there for the bottom row calculation. The "Score" column, however, is meaningful.
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    Fudd wrote: »
    OSagat vs DJ is 5-5?? (According to the averages)
    Why did Muffin rate that fight at 6.5?

    Error! It should've been 4.5 - 6.5 in O.Gat's favor.

    It's fixed now!
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited June 2013
    I've linked the images in a local forum, for people who can't read English. Is it OK to direct-link the images, which are hosted on ST Revival's website?
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    Random wrote: »
    Interesting. If I'm reading this right, Ryu and Ken dominate. I wish HDR would get another tier update.
    No, you didn't read it right. Also, for HDR there is another forum: http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/ssf2t-hd-remix
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    I've linked the images in a local forum, for people who can't read English. Is it OK to direct-link the images, which are hosted on ST Revival's website?

    Yeah, that should be fine. I'll let you know if there's a problem.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Random wrote: »
    Interesting. If I'm reading this right, Ryu and Ken dominate. I wish HDR would get another tier update.

    I don't think you have grasped the concept of "numbers" yet, or how they work. Ken has negative "numbers". This means, not good. Ryu has positive "numbers", but there are still other characters that have higher "numbers". This means neither of them "dominate".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited June 2013
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Interesting that on Honda vs Dhalsim, Honda players say it's in Sim's favour, while Sim players call the match in Honda's favour.
    And I don't know if it is a mistake - it might be, but CVital called this match 8-2 Honda's favour ??

    CVital...? He plays ST? When I read or Hear CVital for some reason I think of a time when I cared about SF4 and I don't associate him with ST.

    Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    cvital aka pup won last year's texas qualifier, he beat john choi and got a spot in the evo tournament of legends.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
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  • puppup Joined: Posts: 118
    It wasn't a typo of 8-2 Honda favor vs sim. That's my worse match up. I'd rather play vs claw. I only play st n hf when it comes sf. (Cough cough) And I also won this years Texas showdown vs Alex Valle(cough cough)
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Out of curiosity, why do you and Cole both feel that Honda beats Sim?
  • puppup Joined: Posts: 118
    In my case I have a difficult time choosing the right anti air n most times it trades in Honda favor.
    Butt slam.
    N not hard for Honda to get sim in the corner which destroys me :(
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    pup wrote: »
    In my case I have a difficult time choosing the right anti air n most times it trades in Honda favor.
    Butt slam.
    N not hard for Honda to get sim in the corner which destroys me :(

    All good points. I really think the key to this matchup depends on a few things:

    1) How well you can keep out Honda at round start and keep him at near full screen distance.
    2) Once you get the life lead, whether you should take trades in order to finish him off, at the risk of lowering your own health.
    3) Not going for trades, and whittling him down slowly, which gives him more opportunities to get in.
    4) Anti-airing buttslams properly when they're directly above you.

    It's a tough matchup, but most players think it's still slightly Sim favor.


  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    I will maybe detail some of my choices also, and that Honda match especially. I talked with Milanea and we decided to rate it 5.5 in honda's favor. I will post soon something to explain my opinion.
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    Some Sims make it look easy...





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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I'm stealing ALL of his moves for this matchup. He has a lot of interesting AA choices and trip guard attack strings that are super safe, and somehow able to punish buttslams through the fireball.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    That Honda was a bit predictable, though. Anyway, I know most of you have already seen it, but it is always nice to check it out again:

    Simply BS, simply awesome.
  • DANZANDANZAN NO SQUIGGERINO Joined: Posts: 6,565
    dat hindu slide.
    angelpalm wrote: »
    People have to complain to counter act that massive influx of idiot gamers that just eat whatever shit pie developers and studios crap out in front of them. If people didn't complain we would all be playing NMS for years right along side the martian.
  • puppup Joined: Posts: 118
    I agree wit the Honda being a bit predictable but those st back mp anti air vs the butt slam were on point if I could do that it would def make the match up feel a lot better
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Definitely not one of the easier matches for Sim. Even at high levels of play, most Sims win by the skin of their teeth. All it takes is one or two bad trades and it's gg.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    Really nice stuff.
    Regarding Honda matchups, I noticed that Chris Gamble rated 3 matches as 0-10, which really surprised me. I remember Kusumondo vs Damdai from the last year:




    And a match with a major discrepance: Cammy vs Fei Long. Both Okafei and Jumpsuit Jese rate this macth as 7.5-2.5 fei's favour, while Mongolorobokop calls it 1-9 cammy's favour ? Very interesting. Unfortunatelly I don't remember ever seeing this match.


  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    It's Dhalsim's advantage, esp. because of the projectile. Do NOT rely on Dhalsim's back+MP! Or at least, be VERY careful with it and only use if you have a knack for hitting it and hitting it consistently (most impressive thing about Kichigai in first vid, ref'ed above). See the first image in Papasi's post here for why: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/4640019/#Comment_4640019 That image shows you only have a few pixels to work with at most, over the span of a critical frame or two, can't be much more than that can it?
    -XSPR
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    ST is a very hard game. It is natural that some things are extremely hard to implement. But even if you get close to mastering self-awareness, distance awareness and game-specific knowledge, there's the focus AFO talked about in the EVO program doc which can provide opportunities that wouldn't exist on paper.

    It is also important to realize some matches of great players against "mortals" often illustrate things high-level ones don't, since the players don't use strategies other top player can counter.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    It's in Dhalsim's favor, but it certainly isn't an easy matchup to learn. There are so many intricacies in that mu, and you have to focus to maintain proper ranges and counters for all of Honda's various options. There's no single 'win' tactic or anti-air in this matchup. Everything Honda does needs to be reacted to on a second-by-second basis utilizing proper counters at all times. In theory, Dhalsim has the right tools to beat all of them, but it's very difficult to to do. It's significantly more difficult to fight than say a Gief or Hawk matchup.
  • CossackCossack Mail order skeptic Joined: Posts: 19
    edited June 2013
    These videos are pretty poor representations of this matchup, and I'll explain why. There's a number of tactics Honda can do against sim that I'm not seeing in these videos.

    1. when sim has Honda full screen and throws a fierce or slow projectile, you can use floating fierce punch to steer yourself backwards slightly out of range so Dhalsim will be slightly out of range to hit you with a standing fierce. When you do this, immediately use strong or fierce hands. Due to sim's projectile still being on the screen, he can't follow up with another, so he's forced to either stand still or use a normal to try to poke. Handslap completely shits on his pokes and advances you slightly on the playfield. This is your best option at full screen, since sim has an answer for everything else. I guess it's somewhat possible that dhalsim can anticipate you're going to do this and do a back standing roundhouse, but it seems super unlikely because if he's doing that, he's already on the backfoot not confident in his poking or zoning.

    2. Controlling how many ticks of hands you get out each time you do it is so crucial in this matchup, and in these videos, it's not done. Most Honda's just turn on the handslap when they get a chance against sim, and they don't stop pressing the punch button. If you corner Sim from a knockdown, it's in your best interest to do a minimum tick handslap that hits once, then follow up with one that hits twice. Or you do a single tick, then walk up, low jab and cancel into medium hands. then you can do a number of things from that. Simply canceling low jab into handslap is amazingly good against sim since there's nothing he can do to avoid the chip or threat of doing a single tick handslap from low jab and going into a bear grab or ochio. If you're really tricky, you can even do a single tick of handslap hits then headbutt right after. If you do manage to bear grab sim, you can meaty crossup on wakeup with Honda's splash. Though there's a chance it won't cross up, it's worth going for regardless since Dhalsim doesn't have a dragon punch to put the element of chance on this due to being forced to block regardless of where it hits.


    3. I don't think I see this often, if ever. If you knock sim down with a handslap or buttslam, you can safely fierce headbutt to the other side of him before he wakes up. You can do just about anything from this. tick throws, grabs, buttslam, ect. The safest thing you can do is to immediately low roundhouse, and even if sim blocks it, you can frame trap into handslap, this will eliminate possibility of getting hit with a reversal throw.

    4. Super's surprisingly viable in this matchup, since sim's only punish to block it is a stand forward. It gets you closer to him, regardless. You want the mentality that he's risking more in doing a move than you are in throwing out a super when he's throwing a projectile or trying to poke.

    5. This is a tough tactic to execute, but it is possible to hit dhalsim's stand forward and stand roundhouse with a well spaced floating fierce. This is a total anticipation maneuver, but it works nonetheless when timed correctly.

    In one video, the honda player just tries to jump in splash all day with no concern on his position relative to dhalsim's. The splash will trade with his standing kicks and beat his slide, but you have to be at a pretty far distance to make full use of this. Not sure how well known this is, since most information I read here regarding Honda's matchups is overly simplistic information borderlining on obvious (and it's quite possible the information I give here appears the same to others in that light).

    I'm afraid to give sim's best responses to various jump ins and attacks Honda does from X range in fear not having won enough first to 10's to have earned the right to sharing tested information.
    Post edited by Cossack on
    I am Rock. Scissors is ok, but paper is imbalanced.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    Itou thinks Deejay - Honda is only 6-4 ?

    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173
    Totally agreed with Yuu and Riz charts.

    I also think the Cammy MU is a lot more even that most people think.
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    because of cross ups and because she is small ?
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Latest Nakano Royal Ratio

    Ratio 3.5
    Boxer
    Claw
    Dhalsim
    Chun Li
    O.Sagat

    Ratio 3
    Ryu
    Dee Jay

    Ratio 2.5
    Guile
    Dictator
    O.Ken

    Ratio 2
    E. Honda
    Fei Long
    O.T. Hawk

    Ratio 1.5
    Ken
    Sagat

    Ratio 1
    Blanka
    Zangief

    Ratio 0.5
    Cammy
    T. Hawk
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    I'd say it's a pretty accurate ratio list. RIP Chun Tier, you done graduated to the big boy leagues now.
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    eltrouble wrote: »
    I'd say it's a pretty accurate ratio list. RIP Chun Tier, you done graduated to the big boy leagues now.

    It's all Keishin's fault...
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    N.Hawk + Sako tick > Gief IMO...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Kuroppi wrote: »
    eltrouble wrote: »
    I'd say it's a pretty accurate ratio list. RIP Chun Tier, you done graduated to the big boy leagues now.

    It's all Keishin's fault...
    Otochun has been doing well, too (well, since forever...). BTW, characters which did well last Thunderbeast Cup sort of got promoted: DJ and Chun. Perhaps, just a coincidence, bu4 who knows?
    Born2SPD wrote: »
    N.Hawk + Sako tick > Gief IMO...
    I feel Gief is slightly more competent against more characters. O.Hawk in the hands of Hiroyan is pretty strong: check last Gamespot team tournament!
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    Latest Nakano Royal Ratio
    Where did nakano royal publish the list? I can't find it anywhere.

    I wonder how many points they count if you pick an old character different from o.ken, o.hawk or o.sagat.

    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited November 2013
    yogaboy wrote: »
    Latest Nakano Royal Ratio
    Where did nakano royal publish the list? I can't find it anywhere.

    I wonder how many points they count if you pick an old character different from o.ken, o.hawk or o.sagat.
    That's skill, man. Some have it, some don't!
    It's at the beginning of the stream archive, lol.

    BTW, I believe old chars equal new ones, when they are not noted. Mayamura used O.Ryu and Cammy, IIRC.
  • yogaboyyogaboy Joined: Posts: 65
    That's skill, man. Some have it, some don't!
    I don't have it but I hope you can still help me ;)
    I watch the nakano royal videos on this channel http://www.youtube.com/user/supersf2turbo so I am not sure exactly what you mean by 'beginning of the stream archive'. Thanks!
    Easiest solution that would please almost everyone -> a decent port. That is, the DC version of ST running on a PS4/XBOX.
    Difficult part -> get capcom involved. Whoever achieves that gets the golden egg and solves the problem for once and for all. Period ;)
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