Super Smash Bros. General - Patience and Spacing....or Whine and Moan

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  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    P:M embodied everything I hated about the Melee scene while it cannibalized on the game I loved (SSBB). That and they ruined R.O.B. I'm glad it's gone. If they're gonna make a new game from scratch I'll support that though, but I'll never give them any respect or recognition for P:M.

    How did they ruin Rob? They made him viable?

    He still has the zoning tools but if they left his normals as is he was screwed.
    Played him for about 2 minutes, this is what I got out of it:
    Up B Sucked.
    Ftilt Sucked.

    He was already viable in SSBB, he is like he is in Smash 4 but on crack. Sure, he couldn't kill from a grab, but he was better at zoning and actually had a get-off-me move. I don't care about what the tier list say, people just didn't explore the game enough outside of MK, Snake and the other top tiers.

    Up b is actually a lot better because you have options. You can do up-b up to 3 times either up or to the sides.

    Ftilt is the same, isn't it?

    He was better at zoning because the rest of the characters were slow as balls, the lazer/gyro game is the same I think the lazer works more frequently even.

    And I meant viable in PM. I don't remember where ROB fell in Brawl.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Ftilt is the same, isn't it?
    Either it was worse or other characters got better hitboxes on competing moves.
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    He was better at zoning because the rest of the characters were slow as balls, the lazer/gyro game is the same I think the lazer works more frequently even.
    I don't know about the laser fire rate, but the SSBB laser traveled faster and/or reached further depending on strength.
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    And I meant viable in PM. I don't remember where ROB fell in Brawl.
    In the last SSBB tier list he was at C-, 18th place. I'm sure he could've gotten to at least B if explored more.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    edited December 2015
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    P:M embodied everything I hated about the Melee scene while it cannibalized on the game I loved (SSBB). That and they ruined R.O.B. I'm glad it's gone. If they're gonna make a new game from scratch I'll support that though, but I'll never give them any respect or recognition for P:M.

    How did they ruin Rob? They made him viable?

    He still has the zoning tools but if they left his normals as is he was screwed.
    Played him for about 2 minutes, this is what I got out of it:
    Up B Sucked.
    Ftilt Sucked.

    You can use a combination of UpB and Air SideB up to three times and attack out of them instantly. They gave ROB a three-way airdash in a game where air mobility is king. That's the opposite of sucking.

    FTilt straight up does more damage and knockback, so I'm not sure what the problem is there.
    I know, but it doesn't fit the character and isn't as versatile as recovery. R.O.B isn't a mobility character, he's a mountain. He controls the entire playing field without moving, forcing people to approach him.

    The hitbox of the ftilt is the problem. What annoys me the most is that the same thing kinda happened in Smash 4.

    My main issue is this though: SSBB R.O.B is my favorite fighting game character, no question. Instead of improving on that concept, they changed it into something else.

    The hitbox of FTilt is exactly the same, so all that's changed is that it's better at its original job.

    Unless you're telling me that you really used Robo-Burner and Aerial Arm booster in neutral, you can still play ROB with the same zoning gameplan as you could in Brawl, except better due to his enhanced mobility, shorter charge times for laser, improved Gyro, and better hitboxes.

    EDIT:
    Doopliss wrote: »
    I don't know about the laser fire rate, but the SSBB laser traveled faster and/or reached further depending on strength.

    The distance for Laser is unchanged from Brawl, and it also does more damage than it did in Brawl. In addition to those aforementioned shorter charge times.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    The hitbox of FTilt is exactly the same, so all that's changed is that it's better at its original job.
    And yet it doesn't work as well.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    I don't know about the laser fire rate, but the SSBB laser traveled faster and/or reached further depending on strength.

    The distance for Laser is unchanged from Brawl, and it also does more damage than it did in Brawl. In addition to those aforementioned shorter charge times.
    I'm talking about SSBB to Smash 4, not SSBB to P:M. I guess I misunderstood Smashbro.


    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    Doopliss wrote: »
    The hitbox of FTilt is exactly the same, so all that's changed is that it's better at its original job.
    And yet it doesn't work as well.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    I don't know about the laser fire rate, but the SSBB laser traveled faster and/or reached further depending on strength.

    The distance for Laser is unchanged from Brawl, and it also does more damage than it did in Brawl. In addition to those aforementioned shorter charge times.
    I'm talking about SSBB to Smash 4, not SSBB to P:M. I guess I misunderstood Smashbro.

    Oh yeah, I was talking about PM. Isn't that what we were talking about this whole time?
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    The hitbox of FTilt is exactly the same, so all that's changed is that it's better at its original job.
    And yet it doesn't work as well.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    I don't know about the laser fire rate, but the SSBB laser traveled faster and/or reached further depending on strength.

    The distance for Laser is unchanged from Brawl, and it also does more damage than it did in Brawl. In addition to those aforementioned shorter charge times.
    I'm talking about SSBB to Smash 4, not SSBB to P:M. I guess I misunderstood Smashbro.

    Oh yeah, I was talking about PM. Isn't that what we were talking about this whole time?
    I brought up Smash 4 when talking about ftilt, I think I just confused myself after that. Like I said, the ONLY thing I remember about P:M is ftilt being worse (You can throw all the facts you want at me about that, I know I'm right anyway, if it's not worse directly it's worse because of something else) and up B being worse (Who cares about neutral? It's inferior as recovery).

    BTW, it's worth noting that I don't remember when I played P:M or what version it was.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,782
    Don't nobody give a fuck about PM, that shit is dead.

    Today is a day for celebrating one who died, and came back...

    WELCOME BACK, SAMURAI JACK.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925
    Did live commentary not for entertainment (though some might find it entertaining), but as a way of "taking notes" since I never do written notes.

    Me (Rosa) v. LordWilliam (Yoshi)



    More coming, and I also played Mood yesterday and will have those up in the near future.

    As for PM... after looking more into it, it really seems like there was a huge falling out. There is a lot of drama going on between the devs on reddit, and unfinished work behind hinted at or outright shown:

    Craziness.

    I think PM's biggest problem has been, really... itself. The scene is very young, but also has the Melee scene's passion... without some manner of restraint, which would come with maturity (age, no I'm not calling the PM scene immature before anyone catches feelings).

    Watching this all unfold is pretty sad, but also a very interesting point in Smash's history.
    ~ aka "ninRok" ~
    SFV - Juri, Cammy | Sm4sh - FemCorrin |
    KOFXIV - Luong / Athena / MuiMui |
    youtube | soundcloud | tumblr
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Prove your justice to society.
  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925

    That is actually VERY plausible. Nintendo likely didn't say shit or send a C&D like a lot of people want to believe (otherwise, why wait, they could've sent that when they {allegedly} told Twitch to soft-ban PM), but whomever pulled the trigger in the PMDT likely knew that was a possibility. They kinda' put themselves in a really, really bad spot by dev'ing PM so heavily. Any work they would do outside of it could be seen as derivative.

    Not that I know for sure, mind you, I'm not legal expert.
    ~ aka "ninRok" ~
    SFV - Juri, Cammy | Sm4sh - FemCorrin |
    KOFXIV - Luong / Athena / MuiMui |
    youtube | soundcloud | tumblr
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    I got a second wiiu to play online with, (kept my first wiiu offline to hack) and finally unlocked all the music. What a hassle.

    Beat classic on 8.0 with 3 characters for those Master Fortress songs, totally worth it. Best songs you never hear because no one unlocks them.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,782
    I unlocked them :coffee:

    I only have like 9 challenges left.

    anigif_enhanced-11467-1411055009-18.gif
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    edited December 2015
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I unlocked them :coffee:

    I only have like 9 challenges left.

    On my first WiiU I cleared the board sans the "beat all star with everyone" thing in about a week.

    @roknin YOU GOTTA TECH THAT SHIT MAN!
  • DavidstarDavidstar KILLA KUEEN! Joined: Posts: 5,098
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I bet Santa will play me when I call his ass out for his passive-aggressive posting :coffee:

    Don't be mean to Santa!

    And I did play you, what do you want? Infinite rematches?

    Just let it go, you got your rep back the other day, remember?

    you can't just say here's your cred back. he got to take it from you. you know this and that's why you're scared and are trying to avoid him at all costs.

    smashbro

    giphy.gif

    and play the man.
    Did you see that Zack? Clear as a crisp spring morning... FK....in the signature. I knew i could count on it. It never fails
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    edited December 2015
    Davidstar wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I bet Santa will play me when I call his ass out for his passive-aggressive posting :coffee:

    Don't be mean to Santa!

    And I did play you, what do you want? Infinite rematches?

    Just let it go, you got your rep back the other day, remember?

    you can't just say here's your cred back. he got to take it from you. you know this and that's why you're scared and are trying to avoid him at all costs.

    smashbro

    and play the man.

    Says the guy who dropped out.

    But looking past that, when does it end? As the winner of the one matchup I choose now.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,666
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Davidstar wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I bet Santa will play me when I call his ass out for his passive-aggressive posting :coffee:

    Don't be mean to Santa!

    And I did play you, what do you want? Infinite rematches?

    Just let it go, you got your rep back the other day, remember?

    you can't just say here's your cred back. he got to take it from you. you know this and that's why you're scared and are trying to avoid him at all costs.

    smashbro

    and play the man.

    Says the guy who dropped out.

    But looking past that, when does it end? As the winner of the one matchup I choose now.

    Probably when you ACTUALLY stop smoking and put Po on ignore or vice versa
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DavidstarDavidstar KILLA KUEEN! Joined: Posts: 5,098
    edited December 2015
    as for when it ends when both people are in agreement of who is the better player.
    all you did was throw a sucker punch win and run.
    you scared simple as that. you're not confident in your ability to play him again simple as that.
    po already has you beat by running and hiding trying to squeeze as much pride as you can from that one little set.

    even then it may not end ,but i can tell you for sure it doesn't end after just one set unless you a little bitch ass bitch.

    even though i may have dropped out for my own personal reasons i will still play anyone who would like to play me for whatever reason.
    Post edited by Davidstar on
    Did you see that Zack? Clear as a crisp spring morning... FK....in the signature. I knew i could count on it. It never fails
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Davidstar wrote: »
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    I bet Santa will play me when I call his ass out for his passive-aggressive posting :coffee:

    Don't be mean to Santa!

    And I did play you, what do you want? Infinite rematches?

    Just let it go, you got your rep back the other day, remember?

    you can't just say here's your cred back. he got to take it from you. you know this and that's why you're scared and are trying to avoid him at all costs.

    smashbro

    and play the man.

    Says the guy who dropped out.

    But looking past that, when does it end? As the winner of the one matchup I choose now.

    Probably when you ACTUALLY stop smoking and put Po on ignore or vice versa

    Done.
    Davidstar wrote: »
    as for when it ends when both people are in agreement of who is the better player.
    all you did was throw a sucker punch win and run.
    you scared simple as that. you're not confident in your ability to play him again simple as that.
    po already has you beat by running and hiding trying to squeeze as much pride as you can from that one little set.

    even then it may not end ,but i can tell you for sure it doesn't end after just one set unless you a little bitch ass bitch.

    even though i may have dropped out for my own personal reasons i will still play anyone who would like to play me for whatever reason.

    This made me realize it's more than just po to quit smoking. Think I'm good now.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    Brawl was a terrible game and I'm glad it's gone.
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    GigaMaidens on twitter - on deviantArt - on Discord

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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,782
    *Comes into a forum starting shit, gets pushback*

    *Claims everyone else is the problem*


    tJ8smuY.jpg

    Smashbro29 everyone...
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    po pimpus wrote: »
    WELCOME BACK, SAMURAI JACK.

    tumblr_mmxj7f8yWx1r0c4a0o1_400.jpg
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    GigaMaidens on twitter - on deviantArt - on Discord

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  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Brawl was a terrible game and I'm glad it's gone.
    Better than Smash 4 and Melee though ;)
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 5,469
    Doopliss wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Brawl was a terrible game and I'm glad it's gone.
    Better than Smash 4 and Melee though ;)

    Sure, on backwards planet, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    GigaMaidens on twitter - on deviantArt - on Discord

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  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Brawl was a terrible game and I'm glad it's gone.
    Better than Smash 4 and Melee though ;)

    Sure, on backwards planet, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
    *This is what Doopliss actually believes.

    I dunno, Melee is too broken to be good in my book, and Smash 4 just... has no soul. I haven't even bothered with the challenges in the Wii U version because the game just isn't that interesting outside of VS. In contrast, I got all the trophies in Melee, and completed all the challenges in SSBB, except the "all stickers" one. Those games had passion, Smash 4 is just... There. I completed all the challenges in the 3DS version (except that FUCKING HAT ONE which the game just refuses to give to me), but then I ran out of hype. All the new characters should be super interesting and fun, but they're just not. Little Mac, Ryu and Pac-Man are the only ones I kinda like.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    Doopliss wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Brawl was a terrible game and I'm glad it's gone.
    Better than Smash 4 and Melee though ;)

    Sure, on backwards planet, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
    *This is what Doopliss actually believes.

    I dunno, Melee is too broken to be good in my book, and Smash 4 just... has no soul. I haven't even bothered with the challenges in the Wii U version because the game just isn't that interesting outside of VS. In contrast, I got all the trophies in Melee, and completed all the challenges in SSBB, except the "all stickers" one. Those games had passion, Smash 4 is just... There. I completed all the challenges in the 3DS version (except that FUCKING HAT ONE which the game just refuses to give to me), but then I ran out of hype. All the new characters should be super interesting and fun, but they're just not. Little Mac, Ryu and Pac-Man are the only ones I kinda like.

    I'm with you there, Brawl lost a touch of that "smash flavor" and 4 has almost none of it.
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Playing Smash for its single-player content, lol.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Playing Smash for its single-player content, lol.
    It's part of the whole picture. Another part is that Brawl to Smash 4 is the smallest leap the series has ever made in terms of mechanics and feel.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,057
    Playing Smash for its single-player content, lol.

    It's that kind of attitude that helped turn Battlefront to absolute shit.

    Kindly fuck off.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Phantom AngelPhantom Angel The Divine One™ Joined: Posts: 27,754
    This is going to turn into the exact same argument that's going on in the VGG thread lol.
    "Old enough to know better, Young enough to not give a fuck"

    R.I.P. YusukeUrameshi aka Yusuke_The_Detective
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    Prove your justice to society.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    That's like asking why people played fighters before online play was a thing. I simply refuse to play under subpar conditions. And in more traditional fighting games I spend A LOT of time in training mode, but I get no enjoyment out of doing that in Smash.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • DavidstarDavidstar KILLA KUEEN! Joined: Posts: 5,098
    i agree 64 to melee was a huge step. melee to brawl was a massive overhaul. brawl to 4 is like a footstool.
    Did you see that Zack? Clear as a crisp spring morning... FK....in the signature. I knew i could count on it. It never fails
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    And in more traditional fighting games I spend A LOT of time in training mode, but I get no enjoyment out of doing that in Smash.

    Well, in that case you're playing the wrong Smash game.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,666
    Davidstar wrote: »
    i agree 64 to melee was a huge step. melee to brawl was a massive overhaul. brawl to 4 is like a footstool.

    It only seems that way because of Melee.

    Take it out of the equation and look again.

    64 to Brawl doesn't feel as much of a leap as either 64 to Melee or Melee to Brawl.

    64 to Brawl to Smash 4 feels more like a natural transition.
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    And in more traditional fighting games I spend A LOT of time in training mode, but I get no enjoyment out of doing that in Smash.

    Well, in that case you're playing the wrong Smash game.
    And what would the right one be? Melee? Don't make me laugh. That game doesn't even qualify as "Smash" in my book, it's just "Melee". Also no R.O.B.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,782
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    edited December 2015
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    And in more traditional fighting games I spend A LOT of time in training mode, but I get no enjoyment out of doing that in Smash.

    Well, in that case you're playing the wrong Smash game.
    And what would the right one be? Melee? Don't make me laugh. That game doesn't even qualify as "Smash" in my book, it's just "Melee". Also no R.O.B.

    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Prove your justice to society.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    edited December 2015
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Those are nice polishes (The ledge changes in particular are my favorite things about Smash 4), but they don't exactly change the feel of the game.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was. But after Brawl I'm never going back to Melee, especially now when it's common knowledge how broken it is (As a casual player in 2002 you had no idea)
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
This discussion has been closed.