Super Smash Bros. General - Patience and Spacing....or Whine and Moan

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  • UnSaxon51UnSaxon51 See you next fight... Joined: Posts: 4,317
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    It's worth noting that I no longer play fighting games online, so without singleplayer content I have no reason to play it unless I play at a friend's house or someone comes here.

    Why are you still playing fighters, then?
    And in more traditional fighting games I spend A LOT of time in training mode, but I get no enjoyment out of doing that in Smash.

    Well, in that case you're playing the wrong Smash game.

    What Smash game had a good training mode?
    NNID/XboxLive/Steam: UnSaxon51

    The real reason Ridley isn't in Smash

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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,040
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Do you even read my posts?

    You're expecting too much from him.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    I don't want the Smash feel to change. I want it to improve.

    This game did that, and gave me Mega Man.

    I'm almost satisfied... There is just ONE last thing I need for this game to be nearly perfect.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,652
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Those are nice polishes (The ledge changes in particular are my favorite things about Smash 4), but they don't exactly change the feel of the game.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was.


    Given that the 64 to Melee and Melee to Brawl changes were all incredibly drastic, and the changes from Brawl to Wii U feel more like straight upgrades, it's hard for some people to really find identity with Wii U
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was. But after Brawl I'm never going back to Melee, especially now when it's common knowledge how broken it is (As a casual player in 2002 you had no idea)
    However "broken" Melee was, Meta Knight made Brawl 10 times worse.

    My question was mainly pertaining to why Melee isn't "Smash," though.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    edited December 2015
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Those are nice polishes (The ledge changes in particular are my favorite things about Smash 4), but they don't exactly change the feel of the game.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was.


    Given that the 64 to Melee and Melee to Brawl changes were all incredibly drastic, and the changes from Brawl to Wii U feel more like straight upgrades, it's hard for some people to really find identity with Wii U

    It has identity... It's got Mega Man.


    ..and those other bums.
    You couldnt even play offense in brawl, gtfo
    Yes you could... He's called Meta Knight.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was. But after Brawl I'm never going back to Melee, especially now when it's common knowledge how broken it is (As a casual player in 2002 you had no idea)
    However "broken" Melee was, Meta Knight made Brawl 10 times worse.

    My question was mainly pertaining to why Melee isn't "Smash," though.
    R.O.B has no issues with MK, I don't care. And I literally mean "broken", not "OP".

    Because how the game is played now is nowhere close to the other games. It's its own thing. You can do well in Melee if you try to use what is fundamentals in the other games (Excluding smash 64 since I don't know much about that game). And if you ask "Then why isn't Melee "smash" then since it came before those?", it's because that's how Melee was played before all the advanced tech was discovered.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • DavidstarDavidstar KILLA KUEEN! Joined: Posts: 5,098
    Davidstar wrote: »
    i agree 64 to melee was a huge step. melee to brawl was a massive overhaul. brawl to 4 is like a footstool.

    It only seems that way because of Melee.

    Take it out of the equation and look again.

    64 to Brawl doesn't feel as much of a leap as either 64 to Melee or Melee to Brawl.

    64 to Brawl to Smash 4 feels more like a natural transition.

    but the thing is you can't take it out of the equation.

    even from 64 to brawl would be a major leap with the addition of final smashes and side b's.
    footstools, jab locks, and anything else i missed.

    what if we take out smash 4 out of the equation ,and just compare the 3 prior. all three of them are significantly different and stand out from eachother.
    put smash 4 in and the similarities between 4 and brawl are more noticeable.
    face it smash4 is pretty much a rebalanced patch.
    Did you see that Zack? Clear as a crisp spring morning... FK....in the signature. I knew i could count on it. It never fails
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,652
    po pimpus wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Those are nice polishes (The ledge changes in particular are my favorite things about Smash 4), but they don't exactly change the feel of the game.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was.


    Given that the 64 to Melee and Melee to Brawl changes were all incredibly drastic, and the changes from Brawl to Wii U feel more like straight upgrades, it's hard for some people to really find identity with Wii U

    It has identity... It's got Mega Man.


    ..and those other bums.

    Except that's not in line with the level of 'change' Nintendo has set as precedent, which is what people are expecting
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    You couldnt even play offense in brawl, gtfo

    I play R.O.B, do you think I care about offence? ;)
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,652
    Davidstar wrote: »
    Davidstar wrote: »
    i agree 64 to melee was a huge step. melee to brawl was a massive overhaul. brawl to 4 is like a footstool.

    It only seems that way because of Melee.

    Take it out of the equation and look again.

    64 to Brawl doesn't feel as much of a leap as either 64 to Melee or Melee to Brawl.

    64 to Brawl to Smash 4 feels more like a natural transition.

    but the thing is you can't take it out of the equation.

    even from 64 to brawl would be a major leap with the addition of final smashes and side b's.
    footstools, jab locks, and anything else i missed.

    what if we take out smash 4 out of the equation ,and just compare the 3 prior. all three of them are significantly different and stand out from eachother.
    put smash 4 in and the similarities between 4 and brawl are more noticeable.
    face it smash4 is pretty much a rebalanced patch.

    I disagree. 64 feels like Brawl/Smash 4 in gameplay more than melee, and many of the bells and whistles that follow each transition I believe would happen regardless of what game came after 64 (Except Tripping. We know what brought that about)
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    po pimpus wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Doopliss wrote: »
    po pimpus wrote: »
    The ledge changes and removal of goddamn chaingrabs are HUGE changes.

    It's like the jump from Ruby/Sapphire to Diamond/Pearl- the changes weren't massively obvious, but they completely changed competitive interactions.
    Those are nice polishes (The ledge changes in particular are my favorite things about Smash 4), but they don't exactly change the feel of the game.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say Brawl was your first Smash. :coffee:
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was.


    Given that the 64 to Melee and Melee to Brawl changes were all incredibly drastic, and the changes from Brawl to Wii U feel more like straight upgrades, it's hard for some people to really find identity with Wii U

    It has identity... It's got Mega Man.


    ..and those other bums.

    Except that's not in line with the level of 'change' Nintendo has set as precedent, which is what people are expecting

    Niggas been playing the same fighting games mechanically for almost 30 years.

    Smash doesn't need massive, sweeping changes every game out... Every character feels unique in this game and has their own identity and mechanics.

    Niggas don't appreciate what they got.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,040
    Doopliss wrote: »
    You couldnt even play offense in brawl, gtfo

    I play R.O.B, do you think I care about offence? ;)

    And I played Toon Link in Brawl! Runaway brothers ftw!
    mvbDpdp.gif
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    edited December 2015
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was. But after Brawl I'm never going back to Melee, especially now when it's common knowledge how broken it is (As a casual player in 2002 you had no idea)
    However "broken" Melee was, Meta Knight made Brawl 10 times worse.

    My question was mainly pertaining to why Melee isn't "Smash," though.
    R.O.B has no issues with MK, I don't care. And I literally mean "broken", not "OP".
    No issues? Meta Knight is one of ROB's worst matchups.

    And how are you defining "broken" if you're not using it to refer to character strength? Glitches? Brawl has more, including an easy one in Infinite Dimensional Cape that effectively stops the game.

    http://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Glitches_(SSBM)
    http://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Glitches_(SSBB)
    Because how the game is played now is nowhere close to the other games. It's its own thing. You can do well in Melee if you try to use what is fundamentals in the other games (Excluding smash 64 since I don't know much about that game). And if you ask "Then why isn't Melee "smash" then since it came before those?", it's because that's how Melee was played before all the advanced tech was discovered.

    Melee and 64 share a lot of fundamentals. Moreso than Brawl and 64. And since 64 was the first Smash...
    Prove your justice to society.
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,652
    There is another reason Wii U feels like a Brawl upgrade: The meta has not embraced the new stuff.

    Of all the characters, there are MAYBE two newcomers that make lasting impacts: RosaLuma and Ryu. Everyone else is pretty niche at best. So ok, playing with what we already have. On top of that, the stage list hasn't changed much either. We added Town and City and Duck Hunt, but that's pretty much it. Everything else is banned to hell. Customs were tried and ignored. Omega Mode only brings aesthetics and music changes, some of which aren't even allowed thanks to copyright. No one cares about Smash Run, the 3DS, the big stages or 8 Man smash.

    So if all of the new stuff is put by the wayside, why would people think there's an identity to the new game?
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 10,009
    The one thing i wish smash 4 had was dash dancing. It would open up the game a lot
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Rob loses to mk like 8-2 in mks favor because he couldnt zone mk.
    Remember what I said about people not exploring R.O.B in SSBB? I'll stick by that. I'm a firm believer that R.O.B has the tools he needs for any situation in that game.
    Idc that you play defense and whatnot. The biggest issue with brawl was that there was no reward for hitting the opponent.
    My reward is getting them away from me and pissing them off further.
    Let's look at brawl. If rob hit you with an fair he should get to follow up right? Well there's a problem, unless the opponent is at 0%, rob will get hit back because if you tried to, you'd probably lose.
    Then you bait the counterattack and punish. It's not like he gets anything after fair in Smash 4 either, unless you're at JUUUUUUST the right %age.
    Brawl dumbed down smash so hard that people went back to melee. Blame brawl for PM, not melee elitists.
    It's not SSBB's fault that people refused to adapt.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 10,009
    Mk had every tool in brawl outside of a projectile. Speed, reach, transcendent priority, recovery. Mk had every gtfo move you could think of. Rob had none. Rob was a character i dabbled in often and the rob vs mk match up was a nightmare.

    People adapt way faster than you think. Stop being a scrub
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    Welp, it's a tires don exits guy. I'm out.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    There is another reason Wii U feels like a Brawl upgrade: The meta has not embraced the new stuff.

    Of all the characters, there are MAYBE two newcomers that make lasting impacts: RosaLuma and Ryu. Everyone else is pretty niche at best. So ok, playing with what we already have. On top of that, the stage list hasn't changed much either. We added Town and City and Duck Hunt, but that's pretty much it. Everything else is banned to hell. Customs were tried and ignored. Omega Mode only brings aesthetics and music changes, some of which aren't even allowed thanks to copyright. No one cares about Smash Run, the 3DS, the big stages or 8 Man smash.

    So if all of the new stuff is put by the wayside, why would people think there's an identity to the new game?

    That's a problem with this wack-ass "Smogon Jr" community and not the game itself.

    *Redacted*'s punk ass, and the other lazy ass "top tiers" CAN be beat by "irrelevant trash" characters, but it's going to take you being smarter+working harder than the *redacted* player.

    You already know how I feel about the stage selection and this scrub ass community's fear of anything that isn't a Battlefield or FD derivative.

    This game is far more than a "Brawl" upgrade, but the coward ass community refuses to embrace it...

    Remember Custom Moves?
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • Colonel-GilgameshColonel-Gilgamesh Akuma Matata Joined: Posts: 9,652
    edited December 2015
    po pimpus wrote: »
    There is another reason Wii U feels like a Brawl upgrade: The meta has not embraced the new stuff.

    Of all the characters, there are MAYBE two newcomers that make lasting impacts: RosaLuma and Ryu. Everyone else is pretty niche at best. So ok, playing with what we already have. On top of that, the stage list hasn't changed much either. We added Town and City and Duck Hunt, but that's pretty much it. Everything else is banned to hell. Customs were tried and ignored. Omega Mode only brings aesthetics and music changes, some of which aren't even allowed thanks to copyright. No one cares about Smash Run, the 3DS, the big stages or 8 Man smash.

    So if all of the new stuff is put by the wayside, why would people think there's an identity to the new game?

    That's a problem with this wack-ass "Smogon Jr" community and not the game itself.

    That was the point I was making, dummy.

    And yes I do remember custom moves since I brought it up
    NNID: a2handedmonk
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Do you even read my posts? Melee was. But after Brawl I'm never going back to Melee, especially now when it's common knowledge how broken it is (As a casual player in 2002 you had no idea)
    However "broken" Melee was, Meta Knight made Brawl 10 times worse.

    My question was mainly pertaining to why Melee isn't "Smash," though.
    R.O.B has no issues with MK, I don't care. And I literally mean "broken", not "OP".
    No issues? Meta Knight is one of ROB's worst matchups.

    And how are you defining "broken" if you're not using it to refer to character strength? Glitches? Brawl has more, including an easy one in Infinite Dimensional Cape that effectively stops the game.

    http://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Glitches_(SSBM)
    http://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Glitches_(SSBB)
    Because how the game is played now is nowhere close to the other games. It's its own thing. You can do well in Melee if you try to use what is fundamentals in the other games (Excluding smash 64 since I don't know much about that game). And if you ask "Then why isn't Melee "smash" then since it came before those?", it's because that's how Melee was played before all the advanced tech was discovered.

    Melee and 64 share a lot of fundamentals. Moreso than Brawl and 64. And since 64 was the first Smash...
    Like I said above: I don't trust the match-ups.

    I'm talking about the meta changing compared to what was intended. Sure, Brawl has some gamebreaking stuff, but if you're gonna focus on an "anything goes" scenario, then Smash 4 is the first Smash game that can be played competatively at all (Again, not including smash 64).

    On the note of Smash 64, isn't that one even more broken than Melee? But in that Hokuto no Ken way where everyone's so OP it kinda balances itself out?
    Welp, it's a tires don exits guy. I'm out.
    No, tiers exists. I'm just saying R.O.B is better than he gets credit for. I simply trust my own opinion on R.O.B more than the entire community's.
    Mk had every tool in brawl outside of a projectile. Speed, reach, transcendent priority, recovery. Mk had every gtfo move you could think of. Rob had none. Rob was a character i dabbled in often and the rob vs mk match up was a nightmare.

    People adapt way faster than you think. Stop being a scrub
    R.O.B had Dsmash, unlike Smash 4. And how am I a scrub when I'm the one saying it's NOT unfair?
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,284
    Mk and Snake were so fucking fun to play in brawl.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,040
    No one cares about Smash Run, the 3DS, the big stages or 8 Man smash.

    I care...I still play Smash Run on a regular basis and train on 3DS every night. As for big stages or 8-Man smash...

  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    Eskills wrote: »
    Mk and Snake were so fucking fun to play in brawl.
    MK's not my kind of character, but Snake's fun, yes. I miss him, but I'm sure they'd remove the silly things that made him fun if he returned (Well, DACUS is already gone, so...)
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    DACUS and UTilt were the reasons to play Snake.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,040
    edited December 2015
    After Cloud, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they somehow managed to get Snake back.

    Then I remember current Konami and wonder if they'd even do that.

    I might main Snake if he returns to be honest. He was fun to play even without taking into account DACUS or u-tilt.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    I might main Snake if he returns to be honest. He was fun to play even without taking into account DACUS or u-tilt.
    In reality they were just icing on the cake, so I'd give him a try as well. The forced grenade drop was hilarious too though :/
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,201
    DACUS and UTilt were the reasons to play Snake.

    No "tasty" is why you play Snake.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    Nah son...

    FUCK SNAKE.

    He can sleep at the bottom of Konami's grave, right next to the Belmonts and Bill Rizer's machine gun.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Joined: Posts: 23,040
    edited December 2015
    po pimpus wrote: »
    Nah son...

    FUCK SNAKE.

    He can sleep at the bottom of Konami's grave, right next to the Belmonts and Bill Rizer's machine gun.

    Well, I know the character I'm using every time I fight you if he does return. :coffee:

    ...though if he does return...I wonder if we'll get new codec calls. I loved those.
  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925
    Davidstar wrote: »
    put smash 4 in and the similarities between 4 and brawl are more noticeable.
    face it smash4 is pretty much a rebalanced patch.

    The problem is... why the hell is this a problem?

    No, seriously, people love to use that as some sort of negative point against Smash 4, and Smash 4 players take that to heart as some sort of foul insult for some reason.

    Sheeeiiiit... I wish SFIV got a fucking balance patch that actually made it a game I enjoy, rather than a game I can't really stand.
    Although I guess technically that's SFV now.
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Beyond Anger... Ultra Rage Joined: Posts: 26,773
    roknin wrote: »

    Sheeeiiiit... I wish SFIV got a fucking balance patch that actually made it a game I enjoy, rather than a game I can't really stand.
    Although I guess technically that's SFV now.

    Not if dumb ass Capcpom keeps nerfing shit.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter Phantom Knight Joined: Posts: 3,251
    roknin wrote: »
    Davidstar wrote: »
    put smash 4 in and the similarities between 4 and brawl are more noticeable.
    face it smash4 is pretty much a rebalanced patch.

    The problem is... why the hell is this a problem?

    No, seriously, people love to use that as some sort of negative point against Smash 4, and Smash 4 players take that to heart as some sort of foul insult for some reason.

    Sheeeiiiit... I wish SFIV got a fucking balance patch that actually made it a game I enjoy, rather than a game I can't really stand.
    Although I guess technically that's SFV now.

    There's always USF4 Remix.
    Prove your justice to society.
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,189
    roknin wrote: »
    Davidstar wrote: »
    put smash 4 in and the similarities between 4 and brawl are more noticeable.
    face it smash4 is pretty much a rebalanced patch.

    The problem is... why the hell is this a problem?

    No, seriously, people love to use that as some sort of negative point against Smash 4, and Smash 4 players take that to heart as some sort of foul insult for some reason.

    Sheeeiiiit... I wish SFIV got a fucking balance patch that actually made it a game I enjoy, rather than a game I can't really stand.
    Although I guess technically that's SFV now.
    Yeah no, Smash 4 is objectively better than Brawl, I just... Can't, for some reason.

    Don't get me started on SFV. People thought SFIV was the "Brawl" of Street Fighter, but guess what? It's SFV.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

    "Combo Hunter", A Street Fighter V Season 2 Combo Video
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