Can BBCP revive BB in the FGC?

KamhaulKamhaul The Iron Blooded, Cold Blooded, Hot Blooded VampireJoined: Posts: 53
Just as the title says. Do you think CP has any chance of re surging BB in the FGC? I want to get into the series but it seems like there is no scene for the series at all.
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  • sektrsektr Joined: Posts: 815
    Not if it's only being released on one console
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  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    There are a lot of reasons why it won't. The game simply doesn't appeal to a lot of people; it's not as accessible as Persona, it doesn't have the same kind of stellar track record as Guilty Gear. Furthermore, most Capcom players aren't going to see BBCP as a big enough shift in the series to give it a shot.

    Anime games are getting more exposure now, and there will be (already are) a decent amount of P4A players who try out Blazblue, so the scene will keep growing...but I'd be very surprised if we started seeing BBCP put up any numbers close to what P4A is at tournaments.

    Still, you're mistaken if you believe a scene doesn't exist. The game has a pretty big online scene, bigger than the Injustice scene in terms of people who know what they're doing. But again, it's a niche game, so you don't have nearly as many outliers and casual players, which makes the scene appear small.
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  • KamhaulKamhaul The Iron Blooded, Cold Blooded, Hot Blooded Vampire Joined: Posts: 53
    That sucks to hear. I picked up Continuum Shift and it was pretty fun from what I've played. Either way I'm going to pick up CP and see how Bullet is. She looks super interesting.

    What do you think of the chances of GGXrd going big? I don't know why, but it seemslike the only anime game that doesn't get the "oh its anime" treatment from the community. I remember GG being pretty big in the scene before...
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  • PauerkrautPauerkraut Joined: Posts: 1
    edited July 2013
    I hope so, since I'd been sitting on Calamity Trigger for years until just a few days ago when I joined this forum hoping to improve for CP... old fans will probably come back, but I'm not sure about gaining new ones. It's unfortunate that some people are put off by the style.

    But..! I agree that a 'scene' does exist.. It's just not as competitive as others. Most of the people I know who own a BB game have never played a fighting game before and don't intend to compete. They don't care so deeply as to join a forum and discuss strategy. They just bought it because it got a good review and had nice graphics (nothing wrong with that.)
  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter The Enigmatic Gale Joined: Posts: 3,234
    BB players being so defeatist is part of the reason why this game has trouble taking off. Stop with the self-fulfilling prophecies.

    I, for one, think it has a chance. Now that BBCP has addressed some the issues that some players have had with the series since Calamity Trigger, I've noticed a generally more positive reception, at least here on SRK, to the game and a willingness to try it out.
    Celerity wrote: »
    It doesn't have the same kind of stellar track record as Guilty Gear.

    This always amuses me, because Guilty Gear didn't have a "stellar track record" until Accent Core. Maybe #Reload if you're being generous.
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  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    BB players being so defeatist is part of the reason why this game has trouble taking off. Stop with the self-fulfilling prophecies.

    I, for one, think it has a chance. Now that BBCP has addressed some the issues that some players have had with the series since Calamity Trigger, I've noticed a generally more positive reception, at least here on SRK, to the game and a willingness to try it out.
    Celerity wrote: »
    It doesn't have the same kind of stellar track record as Guilty Gear.

    This always amuses me, because Guilty Gear didn't have a "stellar track record" until Accent Core. Maybe #Reload if you're being generous.

    That's fair, I'm not trying to argue about which game is better, although I think CS2 is the first version of BlazBlue that was adequately balanced as well. The main reason why I say GG has a better track record is because most old school players respect it more, and it had much more of a competitive following in the US.

    Xrd will be big, I think. Bigger than P4A is now, because it's going to draw in a lot more Capcom players, along with 100% of anime players. Until then, we have to work harder to convert people~
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  • EffenhoogEffenhoog fish are friends Joined: Posts: 1,514
    Chrono Phantasma will have to prove itself to be a significant improvement to really bring players back to BB

    I don't know exactly how many players there are like myself who are in the "played BB and didn't really like for various reasons, but would be willing to give it another shot if some of those issues were rectified" group, but that seems like the most likely area to get more players from
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  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 23,253
    edited July 2013
    @OP
    Totally, unless the usa fgc manages to kill it again with their stupid shit as usual :coffee:
    The game is solid, balanced and has a good variety of characters, the real problem that the game has is the community behind it, too much idiots complaining because is not GG (it was never meant to be), and too much idiots hating on it because lolanimu (whatever that means), or idiots complaining because the length of the combos yet are willing to play MVC3 who happens to have combos that are x3 to x4 longer than anything on BB.

    Seriously the only thing holding back the game is the ass community that plays the game smh
    sektr wrote: »
    Not if it's only being released on one console
    So you want them to make a version that barely anyone buys (and this is not only in japan) and leads to loss in money?
    They are not releasing BBCP on the 360 due how progressively worse got the sales on that console.
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  • HOS303HOS303 Operation: StingRAIDS Joined: Posts: 38
    I think the people blessed with a PS3 will definitely get BBCP and it will get a strong scene, but then Guilty Gear Xrd (I'm glad they changed the naming convention, because... well you know why) will blow it out of the water, at least in comparison.

    Well, that's probably more true for me than other people, but damn it people we've got to make BlazBlue Chronophantasma more of a success than SFxT... how did that atrocity make Evo but BBCSE is a SIDE TOURNAMENT? =_= Whatever.
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  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Hecatom wrote: »
    @OP
    So you want them to make a version that barely anyone buys (and this is not only in japan) and leads to loss in money?
    They are not releasing BBCP on the 360 due how progressively worse got the sales on that console.

    Cite? :P The useless source that is VGChartz (which basically makes shit up based on sales at GameStop) says CS actually sold slightly BETTER on the 360 than on the PS3 in the states, and has...no numbers at all for extend (unless you think that Extend sold zero copies in the US on any console.)

    I think we can all agree that 360 sales were lower than PS3 sales, but I don't think they got "progressively worse" any faster than they did on the PS3 (I don't think anyone's going to argue that Extend sold as well as CS either.)

    Honestly, with all the shifty "I'm sorry, we can't answer that question" garbage that they keep giving WRT to why it's not coming to the 360, it seems WAY more likely that they ran into some sort of difficulty with Microsoft or something, because if it were just bad sales numbers, you'd expect them to just SAY so. Being all dodgy makes the "obvious answer" seem less likely to me.

    Anyway, back on topic a little, I think GG's "success" is somewhat overhyped; It had, essentially ONE balanced game prior to the recent update, but it happened to release during a time in which there was little competition, and it's an "old" series, which means that people remember it fondly from when they didn't know jack about fighting games and therefore didn't feel the pain of the flaws of the early versions as much. It'll be very interesting to see how Xrd works out, because while the game LOOKS gorgeous, I don't really see how Arc Sys can adapt the game to the modern age without offending all the oldschool players.

    All that said, I don't think CP is going to magically make the anime scene all hype, but it does give us yet another chance - though as usual, it's coming out at an awkward time to try to make the running for Evo, which is going to make hype building harder. The trouble is, really, I don't think BB has major problems that can be "fixed" - lots of people in the FGC really have no interest in trying it because of how it looks, and would rather screw around with Injustice because it has Batman in it, even though, truthfully, I don't know that anyone could evaluate the two games objectively and not feel BB is better. (Go, subjective opinion on objective values!) I actually think that the biggest boost BBCP has going for it is the fact that P4A has done a good job of establishing an "anime game" scene that has enough mass to get people to notice, and hopefully that will buoy up BBCP when it releases.
  • KirbyMorphKirbyMorph Joined: Posts: 104
    I assume FGC means in the Capcom American only community?
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    KirbyMorph wrote: »
    I assume FGC means in the Capcom American only community?

    Means "The non-Japan fighting game community", since it's not like BB is huge in Europe or Mexico or something. :P
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    The only thing that can revive BlazBlue is the community behind it.

    Unfortunately, despite how good ArcSys games are, they are cursed with some of the most entitled, retarded, whiny ass children I have ever seen.

    And I've played Yu-Gi-Oh!.

    If the community will positively support BlazBlue and the people who want to learn it, the game will thrive in its own time.
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  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    Yannick wrote: »
    The only thing that can revive BlazBlue is the community behind it.

    Unfortunately, despite how good ArcSys games are, they are cursed with some of the most entitled, retarded, whiny ass children I have ever seen.

    And I've played Yu-Gi-Oh!.

    If the community will positively support BlazBlue and the people who want to learn it, the game will thrive in its own time.

    Everyone I've met in the anime FGC is super nice.
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  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    That's fantastic, and I'm actually very pleased for you.

    I'm talking specifically about the BlazBlue community, however, and less about the airdasher community as a whole.
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  • HyperShieldSlashHyperShieldSlash No Items, Little Mac Only, Final Destination Joined: Posts: 1,141
    I am not a fan of BB, ever since Tager lost his easy ass bnb, but I do think BB is a good game. BBCP won't be as successful as CP (inb4 underage b&), but I don't think it will be a flop. Honestly, I am just waiting for GG, the true king of animu games. That being said, I hope BBCP is everything you guys want it to be, just keep in mind that I will be playing GG instead. Never understood the people telling others to play GG instead, if people wanna play BB, let them. If you wanna talk about GG being a "better" game, go play GG instead of harassing BB players.
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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,699
    BB players being so defeatist is part of the reason why this game has trouble taking off. Stop with the self-fulfilling prophecies.

    I, for one, think it has a chance. Now that BBCP has addressed some the issues that some players have had with the series since Calamity Trigger, I've noticed a generally more positive reception, at least here on SRK, to the game and a willingness to try it out.
    Celerity wrote: »
    It doesn't have the same kind of stellar track record as Guilty Gear.

    This always amuses me, because Guilty Gear didn't have a "stellar track record" until Accent Core. Maybe #Reload if you're being generous.

    GG was very good since XX, and in slash it has gotten the "pantheon of the gods" status. Accent Core was popular in the states (since Slash only ran on JP PS2) but it was a lesser version overall. (Although it brought in many new people) and now with +R the satanic ritual will be complete!
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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,699
    BB is gonna do fine. The P4U people will switch to it, just like BB players switched to P4U.
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  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    The scene is NOT dead, shoryuken.com is just the wrong forum. Try dustloop.com
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Compare SRK activity for a remotely "living" game to Dustloop and the scene still looks dead, sorry.
  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,212
    Airk wrote: »
    Compare SRK activity for a remotely "living" game to Dustloop and the scene still looks dead, sorry.
    dustloop is like tekkenzaibatsu mofo are way to serious that after you scan some info you jet the fuck out... then you see the dustloop mofoz in stream wearing zelda tights and mario hats and finalfantasy leapoard speedos and homies tuck that shit away and pretend they never even heard of blazeblue,

    I buy um for fun, but its hard to find people online playing, sometimes i can find a room and play some noel and do some wack combos, i buy it for the weird anime story, its like a homoerotic Japanese matrix fucked rainbow bright shizzz

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  • NephinelNephinel Jill - Mistress of Wyverns Joined: Posts: 705
    Why should we care about "reviving" BlazBlue in today's so-called "FGC" anyway?

    Not even pretending to troll, I'm asking a totally serious question.
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  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    Nephinel wrote: »
    Why should we care about "reviving" BlazBlue in today's so-called "FGC" anyway?

    Not even pretending to troll, I'm asking a totally serious question.

    Because it's nice to have more people to play with, and have the work you put in recognized by others. The other reason is because we want the overall level of play in North America to improve. Unlike Street Fighter, KoF, etc., the North American anime FGC is nowhere close to being competitive with the Japanese, and it's because of the smaller playerbase.
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  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    I've played SF, MVC, KOF, and a bit of Calamity Trigger. What's different about P4A and BBCP than Calamity Trigger? Not asking for character changes, but what makes the game actually different.
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  • NephinelNephinel Jill - Mistress of Wyverns Joined: Posts: 705
    Bringing in new players and increasing the player base is all well and good, but are you sure we should be looking towards converting the "sheeple" who don't care for BlazBlue at all and dismiss it as "animu fighter garbage"? Maybe BB community should do its own thing, build itself up first rather than try to appeal to the Capcom-centric FGC sheeple
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  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    Most of the people who complain about BlazBlue haven't even played it, so yeah, I'd like to convert them.
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  • GespenstRitterGespenstRitter The Enigmatic Gale Joined: Posts: 3,234
    I've played SF, MVC, KOF, and a bit of Calamity Trigger. What's different about P4A and BBCP than Calamity Trigger? Not asking for character changes, but what makes the game actually different.

    BBCP's mechanics have been overhauled from Continuum Shift, which were overhauled from Calamity Trigger. Guard Libra is long gone; in fact any guard bar at all no longer exists. If you're one of those people that hate meters for whatever reason, that's one less you need to pay attention to. Guard Crushes are instead performed with Crush Triggers, new moves that can be performed with 5A+B if you have 25% Heat and instantly Guard Crush as long as you're not Barrier Blocking. Blocking one takes a chunk of Barrier Gauge away anyway. This helps make the Barrier an actually important resource to manage.

    Defensive Bursts function nearly identically to GG-style Bursts. They're now gained with the usual regenerating meter and don't permanently drain your Barrier Gauge for the rest of the round, or do anything else to otherwise halt your normal defensive capabilities. Offensive Bursts have been replaced completely in favor of Overdrive, a power-up state that increases the power of some of your supers, makes your combo unburstable, and grants an additional bonus that's specific to your character (e.g. all of Jin's sword attacks freeze the opponent, Nu's D attacks fire two swords instead of one and she can use her full moveset). Overdrive lasts longer depending on how low your health is, but it's important to not that THIS IS NOT X-FACTOR. For most characters, a raw Overdrive can last a minimum of 3 seconds and a maximum of 10. Cancelling into Overdrive during a combo cuts that time in half. No one gets a pure damage boost from OD either, so killing a full-health or near full-health character with Overdrive is something of a rarity that requires very specific conditions. It is not a win button; you have to be smart about using it. Think of it more like Dark Force from Darkstalkers.

    Hitstop has been cut in half compared to previous installments, meaning that combos go by faster for everyone. CT's combo system of using a realtime timer to cap the length of combos has been gone since CS (so stuff like this doesn't happen).

    Those are the general system mechanics changes. There are of course the new characters, and the new moves and move adjustments that existing characters get with the new installment that radically change how many of them play. If you want to see some BBCP matches in action, I suggest going to Jourdal's, GameChariot's, or a-cho's Youtube channels. I hope you try out the new installment when it drops.
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  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I've played SF, MVC, KOF, and a bit of Calamity Trigger. What's different about P4A and BBCP than Calamity Trigger? Not asking for character changes, but what makes the game actually different.

    Well, P4A is a whoooole different ball of wax; Different button functions, different system mechanics, etc. I mean, here's the info on what things DO in P4A. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The list of differences here would be so massive as to be unwieldy. You'd better off asking "what's similar between P4A and CT" and the answer is "both games allow airdashes, air blocking and double jumps, and feature cancel based combo systems" :P

    BBCP vs CT? Uh, still quite a lot. First, the idiotic guard break system in CT has been killed (actually, it got killed a long time ago); There are now certain moves only that can guard break, and only if they are not barrier blocked. Generally those moves cost heat (though there are exceptions, like Platinum's hammer.). Next, the burst system has completely changed. Not only does it no longer destroy your ability to use barrier like it did in CT, but it's now a regenerating meter that is also shared with the all new Overdrive function (a 'boost mode' that prevents your opponent from bursting and boosts your offensive capabilities in character specific ways). Additionally, hitstop has been reduced. Astral heat criteria have changed. Pushback on barrier has increased. Most moves now require barrier to be blocked in the air. Plus, you know, the roster has increased by like 125%. :P
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    Large amounts of useful information
    Airk wrote: »
    Large amounts of useful information

    Thanks for the responses guys. Terumi has me really wanting to pick up the game and I was curious about the system changes. If the entire BB community is similar to you guys you'll "convert" other FG players just fine :tup:
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  • KirivonKirivon Joined: Posts: 5
    Monster637 wrote: »
    Airk wrote: »
    Compare SRK activity for a remotely "living" game to Dustloop and the scene still looks dead, sorry.
    dustloop is like tekkenzaibatsu mofo are way to serious that after you scan some info you jet the fuck out...

    Yeah, I used to be pretty active on dustloop when my character board was allowed to have "general discussion" threads. Since then all those threads have been deleted, pretty much wiping out my entire post history, and disallowed. The moderators are really aggressive when it comes to board management there. Threads and posts are actively deleted, each character board follows a specific template for threads, off-topic posts aren't allowed. About the only thing you can post is on-topic content such as matchup info, new combos, new videos.

    Now that dustloop has a wiki, I'm not sure why they continue to insist on running their message boards like a wiki page. Granted it is a great resource since most everything is on-topic, but it makes for a terrible community.
    Celerity wrote: »
    Most of the people who complain about BlazBlue haven't even played it, so yeah, I'd like to convert them.

    I've noticed this. In the past a lot of capcom players bitched about the combos in airdashers, but now they play MvC; a game with no burst, 100+ hit combos, and where a well placed X-factor can wipe out 2/3rds of a team... IMO, BB is one of the better anime fighters in terms of being "fair" (no infinites, somewhat balanced cast) and one of the more unique games when it comes to varying character playstyles. As much as I like the game, though, the cast is unbelievably cliche. Regardless of how good a game it is I think that'll continue to make it a tough sell. Xrd will probably have much better luck converting players.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Kirivon wrote: »
    Now that dustloop has a wiki, I'm not sure why they continue to insist on running their message boards like a wiki page. Granted it is a great resource since most everything is on-topic, but it makes for a terrible community.

    On one hand, I kindof agree with you - I'm not sure why having one general thread per character forum was a problem. OTOH, it keeps the forums there from being a horrible train wreck like the forums here. Christ. I thought about trying to learn Yang in AE2012, and the character forum here is an utter, useless mess. Half of the info is actually for AE, not 2012, none of it is organized, good luck finding anything, and even if you do find it, you have a 50% chance of being for the wrong version of the game (though good luck telling whether it is or not.).

    So honestly? Dustloop is closer to doing it right. This isn't a social event. This is people trying to get better at fighting games. People are generally friendly and way more willing than folks here to provide useful information as long as it relates to that. They don't need a big dumping ground of people talking about character's bust sizes or what they had for dinner last night.
    Celerity wrote: »
    Most of the people who complain about BlazBlue haven't even played it, so yeah, I'd like to convert them.

    I've noticed this. In the past a lot of capcom players bitched about the combos in airdashers, but now they play MvC; a game with no burst, 100+ hit combos, and where a well placed X-factor can wipe out 2/3rds of a team... IMO, BB is one of the better anime fighters in terms of being "fair" (no infinites, somewhat balanced cast) and one of the more unique games when it comes to varying character playstyles.

    I absolutely agree with most of this, but no game that contains Arakune can ever really be considered "fair" :P My god, that character. (Aside: He looks WAY less stupid in CP. Huzzah!)
    As much as I like the game, though, the cast is unbelievably cliche. Regardless of how good a game it is I think that'll continue to make it a tough sell.

    Eh. I don't know. Or rather, I don't agree. Yes, fine, Ragna and Jin are pretty cliche, and I guess Arakune is... well, an archetypical look, but really? Who's cliche in BB? The huge man with magnetic gloves and a reactor in his chest? The 'catgirl' with no face? The vampire who fights with a transforming cat umbrella and controls the wind? Basically, I think the characters could "look" cliche at first glance, but a moment's thought (which is more than many people give them) tends to reveal that there is something wildly nonstandard about most of them. (Except Ragna and Jin.)

    You know what game has cliche characters? Marvel. :P
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    edited November 2013
    I was going to post up an entire lecture about the FGC and this game, but I will do what is probably my first TL;DR and just say that as long as the FGC is more interested in individual "communities" than actual quality games, BlazBlue (and several other titles) will never really be a part of the fighting game discussion as a whole. There are bad actors on both sides of this story, and it's just unfortunate because the FGC is going through a failed transition phase and has much bigger issues to worry about at the moment, anyway.

    Just play what you like and foster a local scene. Remember: if you build it, they will come.
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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,212
    edited December 2013
    i been waiting for kokonoe since ct........and im hoping this is the end of the series for a minute since arc is working on GG, so by the time i finish the story mode they wont be releasinga new disc or like cs after i bought the dlc chars released extend.............but mostly been waiting for kokonoe n jubei, finally got kokonoe coming, i knew they were gonna dlc her ,to easy money ,we been screaming forever ,unless im wrong an she is on disc.................Arggg so many dudes rocking import ,scrubs like me waiting for states release are gonna get smashed on US release
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  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    It's not the end, and F- Kokonoe. Thanks. :P Also, why did you post this in this thread?
  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,212
    because like my lame story above , they kept pumping out games to fast........ right when people were starting to pick up ct even tho it was around for awhile.....6 months later they dropped cs and then cs extend ....people were just starting to rock ct....If this is the last one for while and only patchs and no Cp extend disc 6 months ,a year later. it might get more life back in it if they let it breath
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,753 mod
    edited December 2013
    This game is literally going to be all but wiped off the face of the competitive tourney circuit one Xrd releases. Xrd was the only anime fighter that gained any real stronghold in the FGC and it'll pretty much stay that way. I remember all of the butthurt when the new Blazblue came out and even the GG players just never accepted it as well as they did GG.

    I see this game pretty much staying big only in Japan once Xrd hits.

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  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,212
    Airk wrote: »
    It's not the end, and F- Kokonoe. Thanks. :P Also, why did you post this in this thread?
    I been waiting for her since ct....If she is over powered as yall say, one thing i learned is she will be patched and made into the lowest tier asap by arc......They always seem to nerf hard as fuck from s tier to shit tier. ill rock shit tier kokonoe

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  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    edited December 2013
    This game is literally going to be all but wiped off the face of the competitive tourney circuit one Xrd releases. Xrd was the only anime fighter that gained any real stronghold in the FGC and it'll pretty much stay that way. I remember all of the butthurt when the new Blazblue came out and even the GG players just never accepted it as well as they did GG.

    I see this game pretty much staying big only in Japan once Xrd hits.

    That depends on whether the hardcore GG people LIKE Xrd. Yeah yeah, they're all treating it like the second coming, but what happens when it turns out to be the "SF4" compared to +R's "Third Strike"? I think a lot of people are going to be "butthurt" as you put it, because let's face it, you CAN'T release an expensive game that is designed like the old GG games were, and expect anyone to play it these days. Games are a LOT more expensive to make now, and this 'haha, 1 frame grabs, and super good oki' stuff isn't likely to fly with the numbers of people Xrd is going to need to be successful.

    Also, as a diehard BB player, I hope Xrd is terrible. :P And anyway, the fact is that GG isn't big enough to 'make it' on its own either, these days. It'll need to pull people in, and it's probably not going to.

    Also, Monster, no one was 'starting to rock CT' when CS came out; CT was AWFUL and deserved to be obsolesced ASAP. :P Also, a little bit of research will show you that there was a YEAR between CT console and CS console. Of course, you're going to say "Yeah, but CS ARCADE was out earlier" and to that I say, "Yeah? And everyone dropped CT and picked up their local arcade cabinet?" :P But mostly, CT was awful. Sorry. It was.
  • Monster637Monster637 Rage Trigger Joined: Posts: 1,212
    edited December 2013
    all i was saying is people were just starting to discover it and trying it out 6 months before cs dropped. not the diehards but just people that played mostly SF and the people that moved to cs. just got smaller when they did extend as a whole new disc
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