Ultra Street Fighter 4 General

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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,776 mod
    edited December 2015
    Eternal wrote: »
    So...

    Why is it nobody ever discusses Abel yet he is popular. He was one of the characters who appeared the most among ranking players, in addition there was three Abels in top 32. There was also pretty much every top Seth player in the world making it into top 32. Remember when Seth was dead when USF4 came out? ;P

    Because they're not as good as E.Ryu and Yun. The only 2 characters that matter and the 2 characters that ended up in grand finals for the last event for SFIV. SFIV theory fighters too stronk. E.Ryu and Yun would haev reigned for 7 more years.

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  • ChocobunyChocobuny Joined: Posts: 1,101
    @otori
    How do I block for 1 or 2 frames and then press the punches? I have to press the punches in the air to get the OS to come out. I hold block when I hit the ground, I should have shown more in the vid but just assume the OS works except it loses to DP.
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 12,436
    edited December 2015
    Eternal wrote: »
    So...

    Why is it nobody ever discusses Abel yet he is popular. He was one of the characters who appeared the most among ranking players, in addition there was three Abels in top 32. There was also pretty much every top Seth player in the world making it into top 32. Remember when Seth was dead when USF4 came out? ;P

    Because they're not as good as E.Ryu and Yun. The only 2 characters that matter and the 2 characters that ended up in grand finals for the last event for SFIV. SFIV theory fighters too stronk. E.Ryu and Yun would haev reigned for 7 more years.

    I know you're being sarcastic I just find it weird. I mean in my experience these are characters you see discussed here on SRK and other places (twitter/streams/ehubs) decently often, in no real order

    Commonly discussed:
    Ibuki (dropping off as of late)
    Akuma
    E Ryu
    Cammy
    Sagat
    Fei
    Elena
    Viper
    Ken
    Zangief
    Yun
    Bison
    Rolento
    El Fuerte
    Rose (only recently thanks to Luffy, and mostly just centers around her U2 and clsMK)

    Characters we see come up on occasion:
    Chun
    Decapre (oddly uncommon for a character that many top players run as an alt these days)
    Ryu
    Honda / Blanka / Deejay (only when discussing characters that people believe are bad)
    Gen
    Seth (used to come up a lot but not so much in last like 9 months)
    Guile (only when discussing wake up / mix ups).
    Cody
    Dudley (Not THAT often unless smug is suddenly blowing people up again)
    Hugo
    Yang
    Rufus
    Dhalsim
    Poison (was discussed a lot pre 1.04)

    Chars that are pretty rare to come up in discussions online
    Sakura (used to come up a lot and now it's mostly just people saying she isn't good anymore when she is discussed on the rare occasions she is brought up)
    Vega
    Dan
    Juri
    Balrog
    THawk (now that his spire is nerfed he disappeared again)
    Adon
    Hakan
    Oni (he was everywhere at end of AE2012 then poof nowhere.)
    Makoto
    Abel
    Guy
    Gouken

    Obviously some of it is popularity but at the same time there are popular characters that don't come up as often as others and strong characters that don't come up as often. Abel is probably the most popular character that nobody talks about. He is ranked 15th on srk rankings for number of times listed in tournaments and ranked 16th in points. So he shows up, he gets points, yet he pretty much never (compared to other characters) has extended discussions about his tools/matchups.

    This is overall how often I tend to see them discussed. Obviously there is sudden spikes when a specific character is doing or has just recently done well in a tournament or was pulled out as a surprise pick but it's a rather fleeting discussion rather than a meaningful one.
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  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,758
    I've always had Abel in my 10 or close when I've did my theory lists. I think the main problem with him is that his options are all mostly either going to win or going to fail, there's not much in between or theory fighter with him, he's either getting thrown or backdashed, or you're eating a TT or a step kick.

    I kind of like him though, his bullshit is kind of honest in a way, you counter him he counters you etc

  • FeiWrongFeiWrong Joined: Posts: 358
    Eternal wrote: »
    So...

    Why is it nobody ever discusses Abel yet he is popular. He was one of the characters who appeared the most among ranking players, in addition there was three Abels in top 32. There was also pretty much every top Seth player in the world making it into top 32. Remember when Seth was dead when USF4 came out? ;P

    Because they're not as good as E.Ryu and Yun. The only 2 characters that matter and the 2 characters that ended up in grand finals for the last event for SFIV. SFIV theory fighters too stronk. E.Ryu and Yun would haev reigned for 7 more years.

    To be fair it was Daigo og Kazunoko - the two strongest players - that ended up i GF.

    USFIV is a very good balanced game - that's for sure!
  • DelayedWakeUpDelayedWakeUp Realest Nigga Joined: Posts: 117
    What's there to discuss about Abel? He has 1 footsies buttons which is step kick. All of his knockdowns are hard knockdowns into grounded roll vortex or safe jumps that loops back into it self. It's a plain straight forward character. "My whiff punish is with step kick, my counter poke is step kick which links into step kick. My step kick dash is + on block so I also use it to get in and mix up with frame trap OS step kick or tornado throw" he's a basic boring character.
    d3v wrote: »
    Well the primary goal when you engage in a footsies battle is to out space your opponent to create an error so you can punish in a way that allows you to continue to press the advantage. Common examples are whiff punish into knockdown for follow up pressure or mix up, whiff punish into super for high damage while also potentially getting pressure and or mix up afterwards as well.
    False.

    LOL
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,165
    Abel's stepkick and Yun's s.mp are the best buttons in the game.
    Chocobuny wrote: »
    @otori
    How do I block for 1 or 2 frames and then press the punches? I have to press the punches in the air to get the OS to come out. I hold block when I hit the ground, I should have shown more in the vid but just assume the OS works except it loses to DP.

    Take advantage of the input buffer window.

    A good way to practice the rhythm is a simple sweep OS. If you do it too early and while in the air you get tagged by reversals, so you delay it a few frames after landing.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,776 mod
    edited December 2015
    I feel like USFIV is one of those games where it doesn't matter how balanced a game is, once there is too many characters, the characters start overlapping and then people just gravitate to which one has that tiny percentage of advantage in the meta. Yeah...you could win with other rushdown characters, but if you're the best player of Yun, no other player of a rushdown character will compare to you. He has better walk speed and buttons than most of the other rushdowns and a solid command. He just has that slight edge over the others.

    E.Ryu is similar. You could play other shoto/mid range characters, but if you stick out a c.MK and have 2 bars you get to run a train on damage in a game that otherwise is tough to land big damage in off stray hits due to scaling and execution. There may be a few matchups where it may be better to pick another character over E.Ryu, but his damage is so high that you can just make a good read with him in a shorter set and win any way.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic Isn't a communist. Joined: Posts: 5,910
    I always thought Abel was very strong. People always freaked out when a person said that though. I think CC really showed how strong he is.
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  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 3,947
    edited December 2015
    I feel like USFIV is one of those games where it doesn't matter how balanced a game is, once there is too many characters, the characters start overlapping and then people just gravitate to which one has that tiny percentage of advantage in the meta.

    There isn't something magical about "too many characters" that makes that happen. If the game only had two characters competitive players would almost entirely migrate to the best one, for obvious reasons. Having lots of characters actually helps ameliorate that effect by ballooning the complexity of the match up ecosystem.

    Fact is nobody else last night was playing at Kazunoko's level, and the only guy who was playing close to it wasn't using an effective strategy until it was already too late. We can talk about how strong Yun and E.Ryu are, but if their strength was really a problem we'd have seen more top players using them last night. They aren't characters anybody has been sleeping on. There were 30 other players there and if any of those players were having their best night instead of Kaz and Daigo we'd be discussing how strong their main is instead.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,393
    otori wrote: »
    Abel's stepkick and Yun's s.mp are the best buttons in the game.
    Makoto s.MP is up there as well.
    What's there to discuss about Abel? He has 1 footsies buttons which is step kick. All of his knockdowns are hard knockdowns into grounded roll vortex or safe jumps that loops back into it self. It's a plain straight forward character. "My whiff punish is with step kick, my counter poke is step kick which links into step kick. My step kick dash is + on block so I also use it to get in and mix up with frame trap OS step kick or tornado throw" he's a basic boring character.
    I thought step kick dash was 0 on block?
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,165
    edited December 2015
    It's +1 if dash cancelled. The post stepkick mixup is a lot easier to deal with if you have a 3 frame normal.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,776 mod
    Reticently wrote: »
    I feel like USFIV is one of those games where it doesn't matter how balanced a game is, once there is too many characters, the characters start overlapping and then people just gravitate to which one has that tiny percentage of advantage in the meta.

    There isn't something magical about "too many characters" that makes that happen. If the game only had two characters competitive players would almost entirely migrate to the best one, for obvious reasons. Having lots of characters actually helps ameliorate that effect by ballooning the complexity of the match up ecosystem.

    Fact is nobody else last night was playing at Kazunoko's level, and the only guy who was playing close to it wasn't using an effective strategy until it was already too late. We can talk about how strong Yun and E.Ryu are, but if their strength was really a problem we'd have seen more top players using them last night. They aren't characters anybody has been sleeping on. There were 30 other players there and if any of those players were having their best night instead of Kaz and Daigo we'd be discussing how strong their main is instead.

    My post didn't really state that it was a problem. Just that is the reality of a game with a lot of characters. They are all very competitive, but the focus will inevitably be on those that get a bit more for their buck. Even if they're not far and away the best.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • LoyalSolLoyalSol Drunken Akuma Joined: Posts: 6,905
    melflomil wrote: »
    People saying Elena is stupid but Yun is stupid :wink: good for Kazunoko. That was tough.

    Both can be true at the same time.
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  • ReticentlyReticently Joined: Posts: 3,947
    Reticently wrote: »
    I feel like USFIV is one of those games where it doesn't matter how balanced a game is, once there is too many characters, the characters start overlapping and then people just gravitate to which one has that tiny percentage of advantage in the meta.

    There isn't something magical about "too many characters" that makes that happen. If the game only had two characters competitive players would almost entirely migrate to the best one, for obvious reasons. Having lots of characters actually helps ameliorate that effect by ballooning the complexity of the match up ecosystem.

    Fact is nobody else last night was playing at Kazunoko's level, and the only guy who was playing close to it wasn't using an effective strategy until it was already too late. We can talk about how strong Yun and E.Ryu are, but if their strength was really a problem we'd have seen more top players using them last night. They aren't characters anybody has been sleeping on. There were 30 other players there and if any of those players were having their best night instead of Kaz and Daigo we'd be discussing how strong their main is instead.

    My post didn't really state that it was a problem. Just that is the reality of a game with a lot of characters. They are all very competitive, but the focus will inevitably be on those that get a bit more for their buck. Even if they're not far and away the best.

    Apologies, I've become conditioned to read everything on the internet as a complaint!
  • MachoRhombusMachoRhombus Joined: Posts: 2,879
    Eternal wrote: »
    So...

    Why is it nobody ever discusses Abel yet he is popular. He was one of the characters who appeared the most among ranking players, in addition there was three Abels in top 32. There was also pretty much every top Seth player in the world making it into top 32. Remember when Seth was dead when USF4 came out? ;P

    Along with what the others said I do think it has something to do with the vast majority of Abel players saying that Abel has a ton of matchups against him. I can agree with matchups like Yun or Rufus being against him, certainly his design creates bad matchups but not to the extent that most Abel players will talk to you about. Hell, I've had Abel players tell me Gief beats him 7-3 for 4 years now at my locals.
    Reticently wrote: »
    Fact is nobody else last night was playing at Kazunoko's level, and the only guy who was playing close to it wasn't using an effective strategy until it was already too late. We can talk about how strong Yun and E.Ryu are, but if their strength was really a problem we'd have seen more top players using them last night. They aren't characters anybody has been sleeping on. There were 30 other players there and if any of those players were having their best night instead of Kaz and Daigo we'd be discussing how strong their main is instead.

    Another important detail pertaining to Kazunoko's success alongside his excellent play (there really is nothing to knock about his gameplay yesterday, it was just about as perfect as it gets) is that Bonchan and Momochi got sent out early. I wouldn't have been surprised if he beat them both yesterday with the level of play he had but being on a great day and getting your demons blasted away helped out his chances a ton.
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  • bypostmanbypostman Joined: Posts: 2,207
    It's interesting how Strider was the one who did the most damage against him before Daigo
  • jebopjebop Joined: Posts: 6,890
    edited December 2015
    sfOmar wrote: »
    USFIV is a very good balanced game - that's for sure!

    Nope.

    Bison is broken and Nash is useless tier. Do you even check the Eventhubs tier list?
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  • Sinister0n3Sinister0n3 Fool's Arcana Joined: Posts: 93
    Random question: Did anything change about Rose's U2 set up after a back throw? Typically I activate U2 right after the throw, slide, and then Soul Throw after the slide to cross up or stay in front. If they block wrong both orbs hit and then I combo from there. But last night, after using the set up twice, I was thrown out of the Soul Throw landing recovery even though one orb tagged the opponent. This never happened before. Am I just getting sloppy in my timing or is there something else going on?
  • LiangHuBBBLiangHuBBB Joined: Posts: 2,142
    edited December 2015


    Post edited by LiangHuBBB on
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  • Pokemon123Pokemon123 Joined: Posts: 237
    edited December 2015
    so kind of interested in trying out SF 4 (yeah i know horrible time but think pc can't run SF 5 so welp), want to make sure PC can run SF 4 though.

    OS: W10, processor Intel R Core (TM) i7 2630 QM CPU 2.00 Ghz RAM: 8GB, think it has some kind of AMD radeon graphics card

    EDIT: woops posted before finishing the post
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  • cerberusfxcerberusfx Timekeeper Joined: Posts: 2,351
    Random question: Did anything change about Rose's U2 set up after a back throw? Typically I activate U2 right after the throw, slide, and then Soul Throw after the slide to cross up or stay in front. If they block wrong both orbs hit and then I combo from there. But last night, after using the set up twice, I was thrown out of the Soul Throw landing recovery even though one orb tagged the opponent. This never happened before. Am I just getting sloppy in my timing or is there something else going on?

    Rose U2 got extra 2F recovery
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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    Am I imagining things, or is there no camera zoom here



    Usually the camera zooms in and out slightly depending on how the close the players are to each other. In this vid it seems like the camera is zoomed out max distance all the time.

    IIRC SFIV Diner stage was the longest in the game (check the left corner).
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,526
    edited January 2016
    Camera zoom is hard to spot when not in training stage.
    I feel this match has zoom tho.

    Edit: Or not? Jeez no clue, maybe it was like this in vanilla?
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  • Digital-Digital- TRVP LORD Joined: Posts: 2,216
    edited January 2016
    that is how vanila was
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  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,388
    Vanilla definitely had the zoom effect. I think the reason that vid looks like that is because it was uploaded at the wrong aspect ratio, so the characters are a bit squashed.

    Interesting thing about that match is that it was one of the first times an unblockable setup was recorded at a tournament. 1m54s. Vanilla Chun's unblockable vs Ken/Ryu.

  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 3,743
    Vanilla's camera still functioned a bit differently than the iterations that came afterward. Character's always seemed bigger/closer together than they did in Super onward.

    Man I miss the old Vanilla announcer and wish they would've went with the arcade sound effects. 'Shit was so raw.

    The announcer in SF5 is completely devoid of hype. Unless that was only for the Beta (which I doubt) I'm not looking forward to hearing him for the next few years.
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  • ParryAllParryAll Dangerous Posts Joined: Posts: 3,311
    What version was used at Capcom Cup?

    I noticed that they had Head to Head matches, as well as no loading time! How was that possible?
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  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,931
    It was the ps4 version.
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  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,526
    How do you find a Mister Miyagi?
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  • Sephiroth73003Sephiroth73003 Joined: Posts: 4,287
    edited January 2016
    ParryAll wrote: »
    What version was used at Capcom Cup?

    I noticed that they had Head to Head matches, as well as no loading time! How was that possible?

    Head to head can be done with a simple hdmi splitter. Head to head isn't hard to do in local setups at all. Just takes a bit more equipment.
    Post edited by Sephiroth73003 on
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  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,165
    That should be in the SFV section just for the drama
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    Undertale hype indeed. What soundtrack would be better to show the bittersweet feelings I feel.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

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  • deleyedeleye Joined: Posts: 181
    Sobat into U2. Interesting.
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  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    deleye wrote: »
    Sobat into U2. Interesting.
    Before you get too excitied, three words: Frame perfect inputs. And two more: Dhalsim only :P (At least among all the characters I tried).
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

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  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,393
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Undertale hype indeed. What soundtrack would be better to show the bittersweet feelings I feel.
    Insert joke about you having a bad time here
  • DooplissDoopliss Joined: Posts: 3,181
    Naeras wrote: »
    Doopliss wrote: »
    Undertale hype indeed. What soundtrack would be better to show the bittersweet feelings I feel.
    Insert joke about you having a bad time here
    It was the best of times, it was the baddest of times.
    Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names.

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