Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,338 mod
    Preppy wrote: »
    Printing cards that powerful in a regular expansion wrecks Standard for a couple years, though.

    If they're in a base set, they're there for 2 years, if they're in a regular block (since apparently they reverted the dumb ass rotation) they are still there for 2 years.

    All of these were standard legal at some point so Stoddard can go choke on Randy Buelher's fat folds with taht dumb "too good for standard" bullshit they have going on.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 20,933
    Fuck Standard. Kaladesh been a lack luster block anyways.

    For the money I have to invest, I rather play non-rotating formats.
    For me that is Modern and Commander.
    Remember when Nintendo had an entire series that revolved around a character who used an arm-cannon for like everything?
    Pepperidge Farm remembers.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    Standard is going to get up to 8 blocks before BFZ rotates out, that's more than the life of most tier 1 Modern decks with ban cycles.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,324
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Fuck Standard. Kaladesh been a lack luster block anyways.

    I usually sell the packs I get from tournaments, but right now I have like 10 packs of KLD and 16 packs of AER that no one wants.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,236
    Cavern of Souls and Tarmogoyf are in MM17. Good stuff wizards. Also, path to exile and inquisition of koz at uncommon ? I'm impressed


  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    edited March 2
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Cavern of Souls and Tarmogoyf are in MM17. Good stuff wizards. Also, path to exile and inquisition of koz at uncommon ? I'm impressed


    Disappointed in Cavern as this was one card I was not using and was hoping for a spike and not a reprint.

    Edit: its at mythic so thats not to bad.

    As good as this set looks and is I feel people are losing a lot of money right now and thats not good but more people will have a cheaper way into Modern and Legacy.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 13,766 admin
    It seems like they're trying to push the money out of the cards, just slowly.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382

  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,324
    Preppy wrote: »
    It seems like they're trying to push the money out of the cards, just slowly.

    MtG is currently feeling the squeeze of being simultaneously behind the times in terms of interface (tabletop vs digital) and an expensive "luxury" product compared to competitors (P2P vs F2P). They have two options to choose from for survival:
    1. Massively reduce the price of entry, and improve digital presence
    Risks:
    - If done too fast, the secondary market implodes
    - If done too slow, will be too late to save MtG
    - LGS model is currently exploitative and unsustainable in this new paradigm
    - Lots of MtG players are also bag-holders, and they will be pissed
    - WotC is a greedy company that exploits its workers, so they might not be able to recruit good software engineers

    2. Do nothing and hope that digital card games are a fad that blows over
    Risks:
    - Even if Hearthstone dies, digital CCGs seem to be an established genre now
    - MtG could become to CCGs as Vintage is to MtG
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 20,933
    Preppy wrote: »
    It seems like they're trying to push the money out of the cards, just slowly.

    Its nowhere as bad as what Konami did to Yugioh.
    Card and hobby stores near me refuse to even deal with Yugioh singles anymore as their no money in it.

    The Reality is the primary manufactures makes no money on the secondary markets.
    Reprints does get packs to sell. But you don't want the secondary market to crash as then no one would be willing to invest in the new products.
    We already seen this once with Chronicles, that set was so overproduced, it actually hurt the value of rare Alpha cards. We are not going to see that mistake again.
    Digital is it's own bag as there little incentive for players of the traditional physical cards to play a digital only format.
    Remember when Nintendo had an entire series that revolved around a character who used an arm-cannon for like everything?
    Pepperidge Farm remembers.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    Digital will never kill paper, it just may make it more niche if too many players switch to online
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited March 3
    Yeah it's just too much of a good feeling physically plopping down that card that's gonna win you the game. The social aspect is a nice part of paper games as well. Like seeing the look on your opponent's face when you plop down the card that's going to win you the game lol.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,324
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Digital will never kill paper, it just may make it more niche if too many players switch to online

    Like I said:
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    MtG could become to CCGs as Vintage is to MtG

    I think back to when I was in college playing Standard, and there were two dudes at the shop who just played "Type 1". They had old-school builds of "The Deck" that they hadn't changed in years. They just played "The Deck" mirrors all the time. Play mana. Draw cards. Counter-war over Morphling. Just this same type of play over and over. Sometimes they would play against the Standard players with the most busted aggro decks, but mostly they kept to themselves.

    They were curiosities to us. Just two dudes who had been playing long enough that they had duals and power from back in the day. We were impressed by their collections, but mostly thought of them as relics of a bygone era. I can easily imagine a not-too-far future where digital CCGs are the biggest game in town and MtG players are looked at in the same way that I used to look at those two "Type 1" dudes.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,236
    For me, magic is strictly about paper. One reason I got into mtg was the fact that is was a game that drew me away from the pc, and I had the chance to play irl against other people. I am a hardcore gamer, I own 4 console games and a pc, so I spend enough time online. Mtg is great for me because it makes me interact with people, so the social aspect is really important to me.


  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    edited March 3
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Digital will never kill paper, it just may make it more niche if too many players switch to online

    Like I said:
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    MtG could become to CCGs as Vintage is to MtG

    I think back to when I was in college playing Standard, and there were two dudes at the shop who just played "Type 1". They had old-school builds of "The Deck" that they hadn't changed in years. They just played "The Deck" mirrors all the time. Play mana. Draw cards. Counter-war over Morphling. Just this same type of play over and over. Sometimes they would play against the Standard players with the most busted aggro decks, but mostly they kept to themselves.

    They were curiosities to us. Just two dudes who had been playing long enough that they had duals and power from back in the day. We were impressed by their collections, but mostly thought of them as relics of a bygone era. I can easily imagine a not-too-far future where digital CCGs are the biggest game in town and MtG players are looked at in the same way that I used to look at those two "Type 1" dudes.

    It could happen man but most people that play paper have communities, you don't get a lot of players without that. Having a community will keep people coming out even if it's just to chill out. I can see plenty of people in isolated areas or loners playing online-only but for people with friendship groups and card collections I don't see them switching to online. People can already play for free online with some stuff and skype and most of them don't.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    For me, magic is strictly about paper. One reason I got into mtg was the fact that is was a game that drew me away from the pc, and I had the chance to play irl against other people. I am a hardcore gamer, I own 4 console games and a pc, so I spend enough time online. Mtg is great for me because it makes me interact with people, so the social aspect is really important to me.

    This is what is most ideal way to play but for some like myself its not fully realistic. Even if MTGO isn't perfect it allows me to play magic anytime which is good.

    Look in my pro days I would play 12 tournaments a week and never not be at some kind of shop but now with work,kids,life and all that jazz my time to play live is already very scarce. Tack on I am 35 miles from the closest local Legacy event which is daily but again 70 miles total.

    Wizards knows its need new fresh players because the older ones gets jobs, have kids, have little time. They are wise to try and beef up the digital stuff because there are many people like me who play more online than paper even If I prefer the ladder. In fact I thought online was dumb at first because it was about being social etc... but not its growing on me but still not even 10% of live play.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    If they beef up online I might be tempted to ladder for opportunities to do stuff I love but playing paper Magic is how I chill with my mates
  • riburibu EX Swirl Tackle Joined: Posts: 2,066
    Prefer MTGO myself. Love being able to play MtG whenever and generally use competitive decks against other competitive decks without having to wait for a big event. I've been to 5 local shops and only 1 has really worked for me for just a MtG community.
    Offline I generally just stick to EDH and even then my friends always went heavy into proxies for that.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,338 mod
    My only problem with a lot of the pc card games is that they are all variations of mtg.

    Ran into that while working out mechanics for my game. I have the big changes figured out but then its the question of whats really gonna be all that different.

    Mtg is still the best even if iys run by morons.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,434
    I thought Wizards had a thing that the latest set, unless it's Unglued or some bullshit set like that, is permitted in Standard. What happened, Wizards? For example, Modern Masters should be in Standard.

    Also, the notion that the Power Nine and other old/ancient/good cards from the 1990s losing value if they get reprinted with new art on the new card design is bullshit too. They will stay the same value if not gain more value, because most people prefer the older cards to the newer cards. I mean I still see beta basic lands in decks and so forth.


    On to Amonkhet:

    Efreets, Djinns, and so forth could very well be in this set. If Bolas is one of the 5 gods, who are the other 4 gods? The speculations have been that they are the 4 other Elder Dragons from the Legends set...
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,434
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Digital will never kill paper, it just may make it more niche if too many players switch to online

    online poker and online chess will never kill live poker and over the board chess, never.
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 981
    I'm starting to get into Magic but I see what people mean about the spectator aspect. I'll see someone play a card and have to pause it to see what the card does. At the forefront, the game is already daunting but learning what it does halts everything. Anyone know any good channels that will pause and analyze high level games?
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited March 4
    Yesterday's FNM officially put me in the "I hate blue control" crowd. Also slow players. First match was against a guy, nice enough guy btw, but he just plays sooooo slow. Every card I played I had to sit there while he read the card and tried to decide whether he wanted to counter it or not. He was playing blue/black, had Jace and Ob Nixilis out and would stare at them trying to decide which abilities to use.
  • riburibu EX Swirl Tackle Joined: Posts: 2,066
    I'm starting to get into Magic but I see what people mean about the spectator aspect. I'll see someone play a card and have to pause it to see what the card does. At the forefront, the game is already daunting but learning what it does halts everything. Anyone know any good channels that will pause and analyze high level games?

    Wizards streams/uploads of events have the cards being played in the side to read. What you would probably Like are the deck tech videos a lot of MtG YouTube channels have that break down the cards and the key ideas the deck are going for...
  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    I'm starting to get into Magic but I see what people mean about the spectator aspect. I'll see someone play a card and have to pause it to see what the card does. At the forefront, the game is already daunting but learning what it does halts everything. Anyone know any good channels that will pause and analyze high level games?

    I have played this game for so long my DCI # got medicare. Seriously when I watch Standard streams I have to read cards so don't think this is a bad thing. We all gotta be readers at one point.

    Whatever format you play there will be a stream playing it and if you ask people will answer. It will take time to learn all the cards you see and you really never will learn every card.
    Pertho wrote: »
    I'm starting to get into Magic

    Walk away now. Nothing good will come of this: Nothing.

    Stop it already, its not that bad ....

    j/k RUN now while you still can.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    NeoBlood wrote: »
    Yesterday's FNM officially put me in the "I hate blue control" crowd. Also slow players. First match was against a guy, nice enough guy btw, but he just plays sooooo slow. Every card I played I had to sit there while he read the card and tried to decide whether he wanted to counter it or not. He was playing blue/black, had Jace and Ob Nixilis out and would stare at them trying to decide which abilities to use.

    Yeah, it's annoying when it causes games to go to time or you want to eat as well
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 981
    Wow you guys are so kind. Much appreciated about the Magic advice. And yeah, I wish I got into this game a lot longer ago. Very very interesting at it's core. I was just a Yugioh drone and thought that game was the bees knees but it got so retarded. It appears that this game has, some how, managed to find a way to curb all the crazy stuff over the many years.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    edited March 5
    Wow you guys are so kind. Much appreciated about the Magic advice. And yeah, I wish I got into this game a lot longer ago. Very very interesting at it's core. I was just a Yugioh drone and thought that game was the bees knees but it got so retarded. It appears that this game has, some how, managed to find a way to curb all the crazy stuff over the many years.

    It's still worth getting into. The usual way people start out is they draft and build a Standard deck using draft cards as the basis. That's a good way to get going and get used to the concepts of deck building and identifying power cards and what works and what doesn't. I wouldn't advise you jumping into a format like Modern straight off the bat as while it's arguably the best format of Magic (I know Brent will disagree) it's also very expensive and a lot of the best Modern decks require you to know what you're doing to play successfully. Get out to local events if you can man and find out what sort of community you have, you'll probably want to play what they play if you're looking at locals and not playing online.

    I don't really watch streams but honestly, I wouldn't learn from them as you might learn how a deck functions against other decks but that can be irrelevant if those decks don't exist in your meta. You're best off learning by playing and talking to the best players at your events.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,324
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    It could happen man but most people that play paper have communities, you don't get a lot of players without that. Having a community will keep people coming out even if it's just to chill out. I can see plenty of people in isolated areas or loners playing online-only but for people with friendship groups and card collections I don't see them switching to online. People can already play for free online with some stuff and skype and most of them don't.

    I look at the MtG communities close to me and nowadays it's mostly middle-aged players and college kids. I'm not going to be bullish on the game's future unless I see a new trend of younger players joining the fold.
    Wow you guys are so kind. Much appreciated about the Magic advice. And yeah, I wish I got into this game a lot longer ago. Very very interesting at it's core. I was just a Yugioh drone and thought that game was the bees knees but it got so retarded. It appears that this game has, some how, managed to find a way to curb all the crazy stuff over the many years.

    MtG has the best card-designers in the game. Period.

    Being the first big CCG in the market, MtG is saddled with a lot of flaws and problems in its core gameplay. WotC, for all its greed and problems, has been really good at designing formats to alleviate those core problems. And they've been making slight tweaks to the game to make them less relevant too.

    I like to say that MtG is a crappy game with a world-class team of designers propping it up, while Hearthstone is a world-class game with a god-awful team of designers weighing it down.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,434
    Wizards should bring back core sets to bring back that old school feel. Hell they should rerelease Unlimited where the Power Nine are Mythic Rares and/or Hidden Treasures to make it more rare to pull Power from a booster pack...
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 981
    Ukyo_rulz, I like that philosophy. And yeah, the game design seems really strong. I mainly say this because decks seem to be varied at high level tournaments. I could be wrong but I just watched a guy used a mostly spell heavy deck and win. And coming from Yugioh, that blows my mind. How is that possible with no creatures? But again, that game has caused my thinking to be linear. High level Yugioh games tend to end like turn 4 IIRC? And you see the same go to strategy several times. But here I am watching and enjoying several different Magic videos on youtube and I'm seeing different combinations, unseen cards, etc.

    So yeah, I'll continue to keep watching and learning because it's all very interesting. The art on some of these cards are also phenomenal as well. I regret not getting into it when I could, which was in elementary school but I'm glad I can pick it up now.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    I know it doesn't get discussed much around these parts but anyone play EDH? I'd like it if someone could go over my list for me but I don't just want to dump it as EDH lists are LOOOONG.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,236
    I do play a bit of edh, though I'm far from an expert. Right now edh is my 2nd most played format besides modern.


  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    edited March 6
    Eh, well it's not supposed to be super competitive anyway the problem I have is I always want to run like 200 cards and it's hard to narrow it down, I always end up missing heaps of shit like this deck doesn't maindeck any kind of graveyard or anti-mill stuff.

    Just in a spoiler as LOOOOONG
    Dragonlord Ojutai

    Creature (22)

    Snapcaster Mage
    Stoneforge Mystic

    Trinket Mage
    Trophy Mage
    Thassa, God of the Sea

    Archangel of Tithes
    Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Heliod, God of the Sun

    Mulldrifter
    Cloudblazer

    Consecrated Sphinx
    Sun Titan
    Frost Titan
    Torrential Gearhulk
    Steel Hellkite

    Angel of Serenity
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Sphinx of the Final Word


    Avacyn, Angel of Hope
    Stormtide Leviathan

    Iona, shield of Emeria


    Artifact (13)
    Azorius Signet
    Commander's Sphere
    Mind Stone
    Hedron Archive
    Thran Dynamo
    Worn Power Stone
    Gilded Lotus
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Sol Ring
    Talisman of Progress
    Thought Vessel
    Batterskull
    Sword of Vengeance

    Instant (13)
    Path to Exile
    Swords to Plowshares
    Return to Dust
    Counterspell
    Disallow
    Cryptic Command
    Cyclonic Rift
    Dig Through Time
    Brainstorm
    Arcane Denial
    Sphinx's Revelation
    Enlightened Tutor
    Mystical Tutor

    Sorcery (6)
    Preordain
    Ponder
    Supreme Verdict
    Wrath of God
    Fumigate
    Austere Command

    Enchantment (7)
    Aura of Silence
    Propaganda
    Ghostly Prison
    Rhystic Study
    Always Watching
    Detention Sphere
    Oblivion Ring

    Land (38)

    Basically the idea is Ojutai gains vigilance from Always Watching, Heliod, Sword of Vengeance or Batterskull and can beat and generate card advantage. Other than that I combine taxes, counters and boardwipes to buy time to play a whole heap of mana rocks and curve into massive bomb cards. All the card draw gives it consistency and lets it grind, in theory.
    Post edited by FrostyAU on
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    I always get into the trap where there is like a hundred other creatures I want to run as well haha, it gets silly after a while. I can't run every creature so I often end up cutting lots of stuff like Reya and Akroma, Baneslayer Angel, Sunblast Angel, just big scary shit that would go well in the deck. I had Arcanus in there at one point as well... in the end I just went with Steel Hellkite as I can drop it and power it to ridiculous with the mana rocks.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,021
    Looks fine to me, though way too slow and fair for my taste. If you're mainly interested in playing drunken EDH with some friends and draw ALL THE CARDS in the process then it should do the job.

    Speaking of which, in what environment are you planning on playing it?
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    Naeras wrote: »
    Looks fine to me, though way too slow and fair for my taste. If you're mainly interested in playing drunken EDH with some friends and draw ALL THE CARDS in the process then it should do the job.

    Speaking of which, in what environment are you planning on playing it?

    Weed, beer, kitchen table.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    FrostyAU wrote: »

    Weed, beer, table.

    Are there any better ways to play?


    Played my first live Legacy event in 4 1/2 months and went 4-0.

    4 Goblin Rabblemaster
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Sin Prodder
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Thunderbreak Regent

    1 Rolling Earthquake
    3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    3 Fiery Confluence
    4 Blood Moon

    3 Trinisphere
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Chrome Mox

    11 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors

    3 Faerie Macabre
    2 Sudden Shock
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Pyrokinesis
    2 Thorn of Amethyst
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,338 mod
    @FatalSeabass the best thing you can do is dowbload cockatrice and then play one of us online.

    Might as well take you through the paces to see if you like it.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    edited March 6
    Pertho wrote: »
    @FatalSeabass the best thing you can do is dowbload cockatrice and then play one of us online.

    Might as well take you through the paces to see if you like it.

    https://untap.in/ just go there and play.
    Easy interface or just buy a MTGO account and make a 1$ pauper deck, sure I could send ya a playable deck with scraps sitting around or go to the free bots.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,021
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Naeras wrote: »
    Looks fine to me, though way too slow and fair for my taste. If you're mainly interested in playing drunken EDH with some friends and draw ALL THE CARDS in the process then it should do the job.

    Speaking of which, in what environment are you planning on playing it?

    Weed, beer, kitchen table.

    Yup, your deck is fine for that.
    Just beware of assholes like me that don't like 2.5 hour EDH-games and therefore have consistent turn 5 combo kills.
  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 981
    So as I learn more about the meta, I see a trend in the banned cards. Here I thought that cards with a "You win the game if..." clause would automatically be banned but it appears any sort of mana manipulation and/or ability to cheat mana take priority waaaaay over those cards. Interesting choices on the banned list as well. Are there any cards you guys think deserve to be banned that aren't? How about cards that are banned but shouldn't be banned?
  • r00ster22r00ster22 Joined: Posts: 3,909
    I play EDH and Competitive EDH and won a tournament here that was super fun involving 4 man pods with my Gitrog combo deck. I will take a look later tonight and post my thoughts below.
    Leona Avatar by: Savaii64
    Leona Picture by: .Cobra

    "A few people in the scene know how to work on sticks."
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 The Private Investigator! Joined: Posts: 1,794
    So as I learn more about the meta, I see a trend in the banned cards. Here I thought that cards with a "You win the game if..." clause would automatically be banned but it appears any sort of mana manipulation and/or ability to cheat mana take priority waaaaay over those cards. Interesting choices on the banned list as well. Are there any cards you guys think deserve to be banned that aren't? How about cards that are banned but shouldn't be banned?

    My all-time favorite cards are the "you win" ones. In Magic they generally are very weak and unrealistic and only a few have ever seen competitive play. In other games they have been very playable and I even got one banned. I wish Wizards made these good as the last decent one was a card called Mazes End and even it was bad.

    The banned list is pretty much correct(modern/legacy/vintage)..

    In Legacy cards like Mana Drain(only for $ reasons it stays banned)/Earthcraft(outdated) could be unbanned.

    Decks want consistency so you will see cantrips/draw and mana makers/fixing in most decks and the #1 priority.


  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,338 mod
    So as I learn more about the meta, I see a trend in the banned cards. Here I thought that cards with a "You win the game if..." clause would automatically be banned but it appears any sort of mana manipulation and/or ability to cheat mana take priority waaaaay over those cards. Interesting choices on the banned list as well. Are there any cards you guys think deserve to be banned that aren't? How about cards that are banned but shouldn't be banned?

    Depends on the format and the players' opinion on them. Its kind of like discussing patches, you need to ask about a card so we can explain what lead up to it.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • r00ster22r00ster22 Joined: Posts: 3,909
    edited March 7
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Eh, well it's not supposed to be super competitive anyway the problem I have is I always want to run like 200 cards and it's hard to narrow it down, I always end up missing heaps of shit like this deck doesn't maindeck any kind of graveyard or anti-mill stuff.

    Just in a spoiler as LOOOOONG
    Dragonlord Ojutai

    Creature (22)

    Snapcaster Mage
    Stoneforge Mystic

    Trinket Mage
    Trophy Mage
    Thassa, God of the Sea

    Archangel of Tithes
    Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Heliod, God of the Sun

    Mulldrifter
    Cloudblazer

    Consecrated Sphinx
    Sun Titan
    Frost Titan
    Torrential Gearhulk
    Steel Hellkite

    Angel of Serenity
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Sphinx of the Final Word


    Avacyn, Angel of Hope
    Stormtide Leviathan

    Iona, shield of Emeria


    Artifact (13)
    Azorius Signet
    Commander's Sphere
    Mind Stone
    Hedron Archive
    Thran Dynamo
    Worn Power Stone
    Gilded Lotus
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Sol Ring
    Talisman of Progress
    Thought Vessel
    Batterskull
    Sword of Vengeance

    Instant (13)
    Path to Exile
    Swords to Plowshares
    Return to Dust
    Counterspell
    Disallow
    Cryptic Command
    Cyclonic Rift
    Dig Through Time
    Brainstorm
    Arcane Denial
    Sphinx's Revelation
    Enlightened Tutor
    Mystical Tutor

    Sorcery (6)
    Preordain
    Ponder
    Supreme Verdict
    Wrath of God
    Fumigate
    Austere Command

    Enchantment (7)
    Aura of Silence
    Propaganda
    Ghostly Prison
    Rhystic Study
    Always Watching
    Detention Sphere
    Oblivion Ring

    Land (38)

    Basically the idea is Ojutai gains vigilance from Always Watching, Heliod, Sword of Vengeance or Batterskull and can beat and generate card advantage. Other than that I combine taxes, counters and boardwipes to buy time to play a whole heap of mana rocks and curve into massive bomb cards. All the card draw gives it consistency and lets it grind, in theory.

    This looks like the more casual "battlecruiser" type magic version of the deck which can be super fun and no one gets salty. You did bring up you wanted some taxes though. I will list below the most competitive Azourious deck lists I am aware of. I always like starting with the most competitive then molding it to the price/competitiveness I am looking for. These decks are pretty nuts and I don't thing your friends at the kitchen table would enjoy them all that much but they have some great ideas especially in the ramp department since fast mana rules the format really and I hate being in a land go state for the first 3 turns. You can easily cut expensive mana base of the lists below they are optimal and not at all necessary.

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ephara-edh-paradox-combo/ (has a nice Primer but not a super competitive commander usually but a sick set of cards)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/brago-lockdown/ (Most popular U/W commander super strong goes infinite mana with Strionic Resonator and a mana rock)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-cockatrice-list-for-gaaiv/ (Second most popular probably the best for pure stax although Brago wins easier/faster)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cedh-bruna/ (A cool Bruna list don't see her a lot more similar to your Ojutai)

    I don't think I would have Dragon Lord Ojutai as my commander because he doesn't effect the board at all really 5 mana for card advantage is nothing really. Bruna out shines him pretty clearly.

    These are just some ideas though I don't exactly know your mindset on the format or what exactly you want to get out of it.
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  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,324
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I know it doesn't get discussed much around these parts but anyone play EDH? I'd like it if someone could go over my list for me but I don't just want to dump it as EDH lists are LOOOONG.

    I play it, but my playgroup adheres to the "75% Philosophy" so we can have fun games without the culture of shaming players who like powerful cards. I have a Teneb deck I built from scratch and a Breya precon that I upgraded:

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-11-16-teneb/
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/21-11-16-CKa-breya/
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Eh, well it's not supposed to be super competitive anyway the problem I have is I always want to run like 200 cards and it's hard to narrow it down

    You'll want to decide what your deck wants to do, mercilessly cut every card that doesn't do that thing, then fill out the rest of the slots with important utility like ramp, card-drawing, disenchants, graveyard hate, etc.

    Oh yeah, you'll also want to check EDHREC and see what the community is doing with your Commander:
    https://edhrec.com/commanders/dragonlord-ojutai
    So as I learn more about the meta, I see a trend in the banned cards. Here I thought that cards with a "You win the game if..." clause would automatically be banned but it appears any sort of mana manipulation and/or ability to cheat mana take priority waaaaay over those cards.

    In theory cards are banned for:
    * Warping the format around them too much (i.e. you either play this card, or dedicate your deck to beating it)
    * Winning too fast, too consistently (i.e. it's ok to win on turn one 5% of the time, not ok to win on turn two 75% of the time)
    * Make the game too onerous to play (i.e. causes tournament rounds to time out)

    In reality the above aren't reasons for banning. They are just guidelines to choose which cards to ban. There is only one reason that triggers WotC to ban a card:
    * When it causes players to spend less money on Magic
    Are there any cards you guys think deserve to be banned that aren't? How about cards that are banned but shouldn't be banned?

    I think tons more cards should be banned, but my opinion is the minority. Most players prefer to have the highest number of "legal" cards. So if a format has 5000 legal cards, of which 500 are competitively playable, they are happy. I would prefer a format of 2000 cards, of which 1000 are competitively playable.

    Most players also think that "as long as a card doesn't make a format completely unplayable, it shouldn't be banned". I think "as long as banning a card would make the format more playable, it should be banned".
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,485
    @ukyo_rulz I've got a full list and I wasn't trying to build a Voltron commander, it's more of a goodstuff deck with a Commander that's not a total lightning rod that can be useful.

    The deck does stuff first 3 turns as well R00ster, it drops rocks, casts cantrips, counterspells, fires removal, drops creatures, there isn't much it doesn't do and hopefully I can have answers to pretty much everything if I draw enough cards as I'll have things like Verdict, counters, ways to recast them, I can drop a Sun Titan to bring back small creatures after I nuke the board. I dunno man, I've got ideas with it, it seems to all gel pretty well into some giant game ending type beaters.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 20,933
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I know it doesn't get discussed much around these parts but anyone play EDH? I'd like it if someone could go over my list for me but I don't just want to dump it as EDH lists are LOOOONG.

    I play EDH.
    Remember when Nintendo had an entire series that revolved around a character who used an arm-cannon for like everything?
    Pepperidge Farm remembers.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,021
    r00ster22 wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Eh, well it's not supposed to be super competitive anyway the problem I have is I always want to run like 200 cards and it's hard to narrow it down, I always end up missing heaps of shit like this deck doesn't maindeck any kind of graveyard or anti-mill stuff.

    Just in a spoiler as LOOOOONG
    Dragonlord Ojutai

    Creature (22)

    Snapcaster Mage
    Stoneforge Mystic

    Trinket Mage
    Trophy Mage
    Thassa, God of the Sea

    Archangel of Tithes
    Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Heliod, God of the Sun

    Mulldrifter
    Cloudblazer

    Consecrated Sphinx
    Sun Titan
    Frost Titan
    Torrential Gearhulk
    Steel Hellkite

    Angel of Serenity
    Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    Sphinx of the Final Word


    Avacyn, Angel of Hope
    Stormtide Leviathan

    Iona, shield of Emeria


    Artifact (13)
    Azorius Signet
    Commander's Sphere
    Mind Stone
    Hedron Archive
    Thran Dynamo
    Worn Power Stone
    Gilded Lotus
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Sol Ring
    Talisman of Progress
    Thought Vessel
    Batterskull
    Sword of Vengeance

    Instant (13)
    Path to Exile
    Swords to Plowshares
    Return to Dust
    Counterspell
    Disallow
    Cryptic Command
    Cyclonic Rift
    Dig Through Time
    Brainstorm
    Arcane Denial
    Sphinx's Revelation
    Enlightened Tutor
    Mystical Tutor

    Sorcery (6)
    Preordain
    Ponder
    Supreme Verdict
    Wrath of God
    Fumigate
    Austere Command

    Enchantment (7)
    Aura of Silence
    Propaganda
    Ghostly Prison
    Rhystic Study
    Always Watching
    Detention Sphere
    Oblivion Ring

    Land (38)

    Basically the idea is Ojutai gains vigilance from Always Watching, Heliod, Sword of Vengeance or Batterskull and can beat and generate card advantage. Other than that I combine taxes, counters and boardwipes to buy time to play a whole heap of mana rocks and curve into massive bomb cards. All the card draw gives it consistency and lets it grind, in theory.

    This looks like the more casual "battlecruiser" type magic version of the deck which can be super fun and no one gets salty. You did bring up you wanted some taxes though. I will list below the most competitive Azourious deck lists I am aware of. I always like starting with the most competitive then molding it to the price/competitiveness I am looking for. These decks are pretty nuts and I don't thing your friends at the kitchen table would enjoy them all that much but they have some great ideas especially in the ramp department since fast mana rules the format really and I hate being in a land go state for the first 3 turns. You can easily cut expensive mana base of the lists below they are optimal and not at all necessary.

    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ephara-edh-paradox-combo/ (has a nice Primer but not a super competitive commander usually but a sick set of cards)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/brago-lockdown/ (Most popular U/W commander super strong goes infinite mana with Strionic Resonator and a mana rock)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-cockatrice-list-for-gaaiv/ (Second most popular probably the best for pure stax although Brago wins easier/faster)
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cedh-bruna/ (A cool Bruna list don't see her a lot more similar to your Ojutai)

    I don't think I would have Dragon Lord Ojutai as my commander because he doesn't effect the board at all really 5 mana for card advantage is nothing really. Bruna out shines him pretty clearly.

    These are just some ideas though I don't exactly know your mindset on the format or what exactly you want to get out of it.

    A lot of EDH-groups tend to have "no infinite combos" as a house rule (simply because they're really easy to set up and often requires specific cards to break up), so if that's a thing in his group, I wouldn't recommend those specific decklists. I have seen people play the decks you're posting as value-based decks too, with decent success.