Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Speaking of scenes, as a returning player who quit around 17 years of age and now getting back into playing/visiting shops at 32, I remember exactly why I quit. I wanted to experience a vagina at some point in my life and I knew my LGS was NOT the place to find it lol.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,393
    There are actually a decent amount of ladies playing regularly at my local store. Most of them don't look half bad either. Scandinavian chicks yay~
    On the other hand, it's not exactly the place/atmosphere for picking up girls. Still, two friends of mine met through MTG and are married now. That relationship started by the lady asking if the guy wanted to come over to her place and play Ocarina of Time with her. =V
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    I actually met my wife because of M:TG but not directly related to M:TG.

    Women have made the environment significantly less fun and they tend to do a all that bullshitty cosplay. So feel free to feel whoever about that situation.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'll admit the likelihood of the women being involved in magic is much higher than it used to be, but still, dealing MOSTLY with other guys and sitting on your ass does little to help in terms of hygiene and charisma.
  • SaitsuSaitsu When a Kid, Becomes a Legend Joined: Posts: 34,879
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    You know, Magic kinda reminds me of MVC2 and UMVC3. With the match ups, meta, trash talking, etc. well maybe not so much trash talking...

    Honestly I think most TCGs have a FG analog, though I'd probably consider Magic closer to ST or just SF2 in general.

    Also...



    I'm just hoping the Planeswalker Decks are at least half decent. Can't be any worse than Intro Packs.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
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  • BIG BAD MOGBIG BAD MOG Tough, yet Fluffy Joined: Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited May 2016
    I feel like there are some things you do in life that should prioritize your interests over women: going to the gym, learning a skill, going back to school, attending networking events, going out to socialize with co-workers, etc. From my experience, if you want to meet women you go to certain areas that attract that specific type of woman. If I go to a LGS, I'm going to be looking for someone of similar hobbies but the hobby doesn't make women models naturally. If you want a physically good looking girl, you go to things like rock-climbing or sports but those women tend to want to do something all the time and be more active than my lazy ass. There are exceptions but let's be honest here, I don't think anyone in this thread really cares about tapping anything else but cards when we go to a store.

    EDIT: also BBD posted what Emanuelb was talking about in his article http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-lose-in-modern/

    I guess it's one of those unseen moments for all-in combo decks. I remember playing a wizards deck that people would remember turn 2 wins, but totally forget how many times I would have to mulligan or lose from having nothing out to stop anything.
    Post edited by BIG BAD MOG on
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    Pertho wrote: »
    The store I played in talked mad shit. Think it worked because the whole store got along really well.

    Magic players are invariably filled with way more douchebags than the FGC could hope to achieve. Its actually genuinely nicer here than the fake bullshit going on with magic now. Like I know all those people are pieces of shit but everybody has a veneer of friendliness because they know their asses are gonna get caved in by some hyper offended player.

    Both scenes locally have egos but the difference is that the egos in the FGC exclude the guys on the outside while the egos in the Magic community are part of the picture, not the dominating force. There are shit people in every scene, everywhere, and both scenes come with limitations on entry. For FGs it's physical, execution, reactions, general motor skills and coordination. For Magic it's quite often money. You get people that have superior amounts of either lording it over those who struggle. In Magic though, the casual players are very visible. Casual FG players aren't, especially not locally, they simply don't attend events. For all the people that play the game and occasionally go online, they don't stick around, they get driven away by the attitudes of guys in the local scene. In Magic, you have attitudes, but you also have like-minded guys in the room you can associate with without it feeling like you've crashed somebodies house-party and they wish you'd fuck off.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    On the other subject, I play with anywhere between 12 - 40 people usually. If I travel I can play with up to 300. When I travel there are usually half a dozen, to a dozen women out of the 300. Locally there are two, they actually enjoy the game but they are also girlfriends of guys that like the game, there aren't any girls flying solo there. I find most of the girls in the Magic community are more pleasurable to be around than a lot of the guys. They're geeky, but not in a way that makes you want to tell them to take a shower and buy some washing powder.

    My own girlfriend doesn't play, she comes to events occasionally and sits and watches, she knows what's going on (roughly) but it's not her thing. If I'm distracted or talking to someone else it's the last place she wants to be though as she's tall, white and blonde and gets hit on constantly by a lot of repulsive guys.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    I watched Sam black playing a variant of the dredge deck. Every time he lost, it involved a piece of graveyard hate. The deck is very easy to disrupt. An early Scavenging ooze means gg. And unlike legacy, modern dredge also has a problem regarding consistency and how fast it kills. Noy having Ichorids, nether horrors and dread return hurts it a lot.

    That being said, I really like what insolent neonate and prized amalgam does for this deck, and Sam Black's deck looked at times beyond broken.

    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpmel16/top-8-decklists-2016-03-06

    Jason Chung came top 8 with Zombie Loam during the Eldrazi Grand Prix. It's an interesting deck to watch as it's very grindy. It has a lot of ways to remove creatures and sets up a loop with Squee/Life from the Loam and Zombie Infestation to flood the board. If you're playing Dredge as in discard Grave Troll, mill some stuff and Unburial Rites an Iona or something, that's not so good in Modern. You're better off playing Grishoalbrand.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    Must be a local thing. The thing that is very offputting about fighting games is how brash it can be in people here communicate.

    I rather more people in mtg were told how ass they were. Nicer than dealing with smarminess and douchebags.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 2,035
    Pertho wrote: »
    The store I played in talked mad shit. Think it worked because the whole store got along really well.

    Magic players are invariably filled with way more douchebags than the FGC could hope to achieve. Its actually genuinely nicer here than the fake bullshit going on with magic now. Like I know all those people are pieces of shit but everybody has a veneer of friendliness because they know their asses are gonna get caved in by some hyper offended player.

    In Magic since its a drawn out game there has to be a fine line between shit talking/having fun and being a fucking prick. In street its just a few minutes the mind games matter so much more and show boating and is a good thing to help get a W.

    When I play magic I am the opposite of my real life personality ( I am very shy and not one to talk much ) but people tend to enjoy playing there matches against me cause I make it fun even when its a "stressful" situation like a top deck war or someone is going to die soon for sure. There is a movie from the early 90's called Searching for Bobby Fischer (one of my all time favorite flicks) and I'm like one of the characters named Vinnie. I love to talk and get in your head but I am not a dick about it.

    This is why I hate the "good boy" push I always say. I want more aggressive types to play and wish they would have allow the FChamps/Marns of Magic do there thing. I watch people play around me and its just all serious. This is what I hated most about PT's was the boring silent games.

    I will say that all the best places I have played cards could balance the fun shit talking from the rest and the atmosphere is just so much better. Its lame when there is real just uptight people who are over sensitive or are over serious.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    I just think wherever you are you should just treat others like you want to be treated. I'll educate people if they want it, which some of them do if I blow them up, but otherwise I'm not going to act smug with them and lecture them on why they're bad. I believe in letting people reach out if they want to improve, let the new kid swallow some hard medicine if he thinks he's all that, I'm not about babying but I don't want to make him feel like he's come to the wrong place.

    This shit is niche enough without making it feel like a members-only club, that's something I've said to a lot of local FGC leaders and they agree but the message isn't getting passed down as a lot of the most toxic personalities are higher level players who feel the rest should "git gud." They just fail to realize all that pot money they're making could be doubled or tripled and their skills could improve facing a higher level of competition if they gave a damn about anyone other than themselves and feeling superior. That attitude is cool though, that attitude is seen as a winners attitude, it's not though, with exceptions most of the foreign players who dominate them game in more communal, less-private settings and are far more humble.
  • JuuMJuuM Danke where yo at Joined: Posts: 1,615
    Attended and won my first PPTQ in Gothenburg last weekend. I decided to play BW control because it's the deck I'm most comfortable with and it has reasonable match ups against everything. Went in hoping just to get to play some good magic and get better, happy that I managed to get the opportunity to play in Stockholm later this year.

    20 players, 5 round swiss. Not large by any means but the quality of play was alright, they're pretty good up there.

    2-1 BWc Control (play)
    2-0 BG Aristocrats (draw)
    0-2 Grixis Control (draw)
    2-0 Bant Company (play)
    0-2 GW Tokens (draw)

    Managed to get into top 8 with 3-2, not sure if I was lucky or the fact that nearly 50% of those who attends gets in.

    2-0 Wr Humans (draw)
    Same list recently piloted by Olle Råde splashing red only for 3 Needle Spires in the board. They did work in the second game but I had a strong draw and managed to fight through 2 of them. Wouldn't be surprised to see this being the norm from now on since you already have to sideboard into 2 or 3 lands to play Gideon.
    2-0 Grixis Control (draw)
    Had a one of a kind game two where I had to minus Sorin (6) two times on my secure tokens to survive against Fevered Visions. Quarantine Field for 3 allowed me to shore up the game.
    2-0 BG Aristocrats (draw)
    Same guy from the swiss, he went undefeated in games except against me. In the second game I played around his one of Clipped Wings refraining to flip Abbey until I drew into Linvala and got rewarded. He flips his own Abbey the turn after and we're stalled. Several turns later I managed to set up a situation where I have a 8/8 land and Planar Outburst his board precombat. He's then at 3 mana 1 floating from a scion against my active Blighted Fen which locks him from playing Company and I cast Anguish Unmaking as we go into combat for the win.
    Land (26)
    2x Blighted Fen
    4x Caves of Koilos
    4x Forsaken Sanctuary
    3x Plains
    4x Shambling Vent
    6x Swamp
    3x Westvale Abbey

    Planeswalker (8)
    4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2x Ob Nixilis Reignited
    2x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

    Sorcery (14)
    3x Languish
    2x Planar Outburst
    4x Read the Bones
    2x Ruinous Path
    3x Transgress the Mind

    Instant (12)
    3x Anguished Unmaking
    4x Grasp of Darkness
    3x Secure the Wastes
    2x Ultimate Price

    Sideboard (15)
    1x Dark Petition
    1x Dead Weight
    2x Duress
    1x Flaying Tendrils
    2x Hallowed Moonlight
    1x Infinite Obliteration
    2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
    1x Linvala, the Preserver
    1x Quarantine Field
    1x Ruinous Path
    1x Transgress the Mind
    1x Ultimate Price

    Changes going in:
    -1x Transgress the Mind
    +1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

    -1x Quarantine Field
    -1x Infinite Obliteration
    +1x Dead Weight
    +1x Transgress the Mind
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 2,035
    JuuM wrote: »
    Snip

    Grats and good luck at RegionalPTQ. Sadly I know literally nothing about current standard but just stick with what you know, ran a deck just like that before it was capable of winning. Honestly I have seen local 16 person things get a invite and its becoming so tempting to just grind the RPTQ's *assuming I would consistently win PPTQ's* but none the less have fun and do you homie. And no matter what just have fun! and never lose that. You seem exited as you should be and even if you get to the PT just have fun. And don't downplay your top 8, even if just a "luck" thing.

  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier feels to me like a card that should be seeing a lot more play in this current format, especially with the shell of Blisterpod / Cutthroat / Dwynen's Elite / Catacomb Sifter + Cryptolith Rites to power it. A 4 / 6 Deathtouch creature is powerful enough on it's own without it replacing itself with whatever card you wanted.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier feels to me like a card that should be seeing a lot more play in this current format, especially with the shell of Blisterpod / Cutthroat / Dwynen's Elite / Catacomb Sifter + Cryptolith Rites to power it. A 4 / 6 Deathtouch creature is powerful enough on it's own without it replacing itself with whatever card you wanted.

    She could potentially get that 6 cost green spell and bring back hella creatures from the graveyard to your hand. Between casting cost 1-3 you potentially have a blisterpod, the new blood artist and the eldrazi that comes with a baby.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    Pertho wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Sidisi, Undead Vizier feels to me like a card that should be seeing a lot more play in this current format, especially with the shell of Blisterpod / Cutthroat / Dwynen's Elite / Catacomb Sifter + Cryptolith Rites to power it. A 4 / 6 Deathtouch creature is powerful enough on it's own without it replacing itself with whatever card you wanted.

    She could potentially get that 6 cost green spell and bring back hella creatures from the graveyard to your hand. Between casting cost 1-3 you potentially have a blisterpod, the new blood artist and the eldrazi that comes with a baby.

    Season's Past and yeah that could work. Kalitas is a bomb 4 drop who could maybe fit in there as well.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    You could hypothetically make enough eldrazi drones that you'd only need 4 lands to cast season's past.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,483
    I decided to netdeck 4-Color Company because the deck seems hella sweet:
    http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpny16/four-color-cryptolith-rites-with-eric-severson-2016-05-08

    No one is playing Languish at my local meta though, and there is a lot of Ramp. For that reason I cut the Reality Smashers from the sideboard and put in Pitiless Horde instead.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,054
    Anyone try a mono-blue meerfolk/sunken city/lord of atlantis/stasis deck?
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    Pitless horde is mad underrated. It was one of the cards iwanted to build a deck with; that and the dude who flings warriors.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    That new Jeskai Madness Control deck that uses Nahiri and Baby Jace to draw the entire deck while casting spells is pretty cool.

    The obvious limitation to playing it would be the 4 copies of Baby Jace who has dropped a bit but is still very expensive. Nahiri is around $50 US now as well, she's changing Modern because she ticks up to her Ult in 2 turns and can then tutor and play Emrakul for a turn.
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,157 admin
    I'm glad that Bribery is making a comeback because of that deck.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382

  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    I'm not a fan of the deck because Emrakul is a pet hate of mine, I feel like it's an incredibly poorly designed card that has only ever been open to abuse. It's mana cost makes it completely prohibitive in any regular game of Magic, it has just always been a tool for certain decks to abuse with a massive wall of text to sift through on the card. Too many rules, too many keywords, it's just clunky and when it resolves it feels plain unfair.

    I do like some of the changes I'm seeing watching Grand Prix L.A though, GW Tokens in Modern looks really nice, Nissa + Gideon do well alongside Gavony, Dorks and White token generators, it's a nice list. Bant Eldrazi seems powerful while being fair as well. It's a deck. It runs Eldrazi Temple and Dorks for quality acceleration, Ancient Stirrings is obviously value town, other than that it's just fat bodies though, Displacer, Thought-Knot, Smasher, Drowner. Just decent, big cards without feeling completely broken.

  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,483
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    she's changing Modern because she ticks up to her Ult in 2 turns and can then tutor and play Emrakul for a turn.

    Times like this I wish I was on Jund instead of Abzan so I can just Dreadbore away my problems. I prefer Voice of Resurgence though for the light disruption and resilience though. I might just run Maelstrom Pulse or even Hero's Downfall.
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the deck because Emrakul is a pet hate of mine

    Same here. Basically I think cards like Emrakul, which will basically never see play outside of a deck breaking the game's fundamental design, are bad for the game.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,425
    edited May 2016
    @ukyo_rulz I personally do not like keeping more than 2 mana open to use one-for-one removal. I think Maelstrom Pulse would likely be better because it's more versatile.
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • JuuMJuuM Danke where yo at Joined: Posts: 1,615
    I like Hero's Downfall over Pulse hedges a bit against manlands assuming that the 4th Path to Exile is cut. Speaking of cuts, Murderous Cut is criminally underplayed in modern.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    Think i am officially done with this hobby for a while.

    See ya.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 2,035
    Pertho wrote: »
    Think i am officially done with this hobby for a while.

    See ya.

    91g9v.jpg


    I agree with you for the most part, just sticking to 1 deck and 1 format. But why get out all together? Just hop onto the Legacy train.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Hope: You can't believe in it Joined: Posts: 10,778 mod
    (Belated congratulations, @JuuM.)

    What happened now, @Pertho? Not that I'll try to talk you out of it, but I'm legitimately curious given things seemed to somewhat be on the up-swing for a while.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,008 mod
    I'll type something sometime this week. Very good friend of mine died and she also happened to be the mother of two friends that are like brothers to me. But until then, here was one of the things that I was going to use for my show. Its the jingle for the best deck in modern:

    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    Sorry to hear about your loss
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
    edited May 2016
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    Same here. Basically I think cards like Emrakul, which will basically never see play outside of a deck breaking the game's fundamental design, are bad for the game.

    Tron used to hardcast Emrakul, though, so does 12 post in Legacy. I don't like through the breaches or Show and tell (esp show), and I think these spells are the problem, not emrakul.



  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,054
    Emrakul can be cast by that one Edrazi that states, cast any number of Edrazi from outside the game without paying mana cast
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    she's changing Modern because she ticks up to her Ult in 2 turns and can then tutor and play Emrakul for a turn.

    Times like this I wish I was on Jund instead of Abzan so I can just Dreadbore away my problems. I prefer Voice of Resurgence though for the light disruption and resilience though. I might just run Maelstrom Pulse or even Hero's Downfall.
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the deck because Emrakul is a pet hate of mine

    Same here. Basically I think cards like Emrakul, which will basically never see play outside of a deck breaking the game's fundamental design, are bad for the game.

    I run 1 - 2 Celestial Purges on the sideboard usually as it hits Liliana while also hitting stuff like Tasigur, Keranos and Blood Moon. It also hits Neytiri. Mainboard I don't know if I'm going to go as far as Walker removal but if I was playing Abzan my first choice would be Sorin's Unmaking.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,054
    edited May 2016
    Anyone know the new rulings on Celestial Dawn? Back in the day (1990s), Celestial Dawn was kinda broken
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,303
    New rulings? I know the card but I didn't know of any new rulings. It's a typical card from the period with way too much clunky text that's open to abuse.

    Speaking of Legacy though, Eternal Masters is coming out. We'll probably draft it but it's expensive, it's around twice the price of a normal box so we'll likely only draft it once. Legacy isn't big locally, it is where I travel which makes me want to work on my Legacy deck more but Legacy is also very expensive whatever Brent wants to say.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,483
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Tron used to hardcast Emrakul, though, so does 12 post in Legacy. I don't like through the breaches or Show and tell (esp show), and I think these spells are the problem, not emrakul.

    I frankly don't see the relevant difference between Tron and Through the Breach. They all essentially just make mana. Tron and 12-post are basically slightly slower, more resilient Storm decks that use lands instead of Rituals. Same thing for Sneak and Show, Amulet Bloom and many others. These decks all operate along the same axis. The mechanisms are different but the results are the same. There will never be a "fair" Emrakul deck, just like there will never be a "fair" Past in Flames deck.
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I run 1 - 2 Celestial Purges on the sideboard usually as it hits Liliana while also hitting stuff like Tasigur, Keranos and Blood Moon. It also hits Neytiri. Mainboard I don't know if I'm going to go as far as Walker removal but if I was playing Abzan my first choice would be Sorin's Unmaking.

    Good ideas.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,054
    Lord of the Pit should be a planes walker. - my summoning will be your undoing, planes walker...
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Tron used to hardcast Emrakul, though, so does 12 post in Legacy. I don't like through the breaches or Show and tell (esp show), and I think these spells are the problem, not emrakul.

    I frankly don't see the relevant difference between Tron and Through the Breach. They all essentially just make mana. Tron and 12-post are basically slightly slower, more resilient Storm decks that use lands instead of Rituals. Same thing for Sneak and Show, Amulet Bloom and many others. These decks all operate along the same axis. The mechanisms are different but the results are the same. There will never be a "fair" Emrakul deck, just like there will never be a "fair" Past in Flames deck.

    Well, this raises the question what is a "fair deck", especially in older formats. But my point was that decks like Tron and 12 post aims to hardcast Emrakul, playing it in a fair way, not cheating it into play, regardless if the deck itself is considered fair or not.
    The difference between Tron/12 post and Breach/ show and tell is that Tron is hardcasting Emrakul earliest on turn 6 (unlikely)/ 12 post on t5, while Breach aims for a t4 Emrakul regularly (t2 for show and tell).

    I think a better case could be made against Griselbrand, since I don't know if there ever been a deck that intended to hardcast Grislebrand. But with emrakul, there are decks that tries to cast it the regular way, the way every other creature is casted.