Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • BIG BAD MOGBIG BAD MOG Tough, yet Fluffy Joined: Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Good points. It may not be as good as I think it will be, but at least the investment is really low.

    Did adjust faeries by throwing in extra silliness: night market lookout. It's nothing but draft chaff but it looks like it's tough for people to beat NML+smuggler's copter. Managed to steal some games against TRON variants which was pretty weird. Still a total of 4 power swinging on t3 with the ability to sculpt my hand felt pretty good. Funniest match was when I forced an eldrazi tron player to use all is dust against my double lookout swings backed by counters+removal.

    I still feel lucky and playing burn would have still been better, but going 3-0-1 with janky beats felt pretty good. I expect the third time to be unable to catch a single win.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I wonder why more people aren't excited for Kefnet. For three mana you get an indestructible blocker for Heart of Kiran that will also kill Gideon in one shot, and give you a mana-sink and repeatable card advantage. Late-game you can even replay a land to reduce the cost of the ability to three.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    edited April 18
    (With regards to Bone Picker, it's pretty damn good. Not as good as Delver ultimately, but that's hardly a flaw. That it at worst trades with pretty much everything save for the gods themselves (including Gideon here) & the few creatures with first strike as well as can be gotten out by just sacrificing cheap or even free creatures like the Eldrazi Scions or even just casting Ballista for 0 is nothing but upside.)

    It is perhaps because Kefnet's requirements to be a creature that can actually attack or block is the harshest of them all, even harsher than Bontu's "one of you guys please die this turn--'kay thanks" requirement, which is actually pretty easy to fulfill in both the color of sacrifice--Black--and with Eldrazi Scions still around; by comparison, Bontu actually has more evasion given how common Heart of Kiran and that thopter making energy creature are presently. This as opposed to Heart of Kiran--since you're making the comparison--a.k.a. that unfortunately overpowered not-creature creature that basically can be turned into a creature all time in most of the decks its in and is less vulnerable to creature removal overall since Kefnet, even when he can't attack or block, always counts as a creature unlike the Theros gods. For example, just in the new Standard you can Stasis Snare Kefnet or have him gobbled up by Oath of Liliana's sacrifice clause at any and all times, to say nothing of all the things that add -1/-1 counters in Amonkhet. Meanwhile Heart of Kiran gets the benefit of just being able to sit there when things are clearly unsafe.

    Similarly, unlike all of the other Amonkhet god cards (heh), I only see can only see him as a one-of at best in most decks that would to touch him at present, especially given I realized after the entire set was spoiled that there is no Spellbook-esque card--I was expecting perhaps a desert land like Reliquary Tower. For a while I was thinking that Bontu might be the weakest Amonkhet god overall, but the more I think about it, the more Kefnet seems like it at present, at least where Standard is concerned; I don't see him doing any better outside of Standard, honestly, especially since he dies to Dismember unlike Bontu and Oketra.

    Kefnet's not bad, but right now he's not really that appealing, especially since the Landfall cards we got in Battle for Zendikar largely sucked (like almost every non-Planeswalker, non-Eldrazi card from that entire block).
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    The Damned wrote: »
    It is perhaps because Kefnet's requirements to be a creature that can actually attack or block is the harshest of them all

    Eh, it doesn't seem that bad to me. Guess Kef will either be my pet card for this Standard or I will link to this post in the future to prove that I am an MtG prophet when Kef emerges to define new Standard.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    edited April 18
    Kefnet is also my favourite god. I think people don't like him since needing 7 cards in hand is quite tough (maybe the toughest requirement). But I see him more like a constant source of card advantage that sometimes turns into a powerful threat. Now I have to find a deck for him - I would love to play Kefnet in a Bounty of Luxa deck - man I just love some of the GU cards we have, I just have to put together a Simic deck

    Meanwhile, the green god - best one - is so boring :s


  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    Black god is best one...
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    edited April 18
    I doubt, he requires a specific shell, and even then, 2mana to activate means combo potential is limited.


  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    edited April 18
    (Not that I usually care about this type of stuff and I still don't in this case, but for the record, Bontu is apparently female, which means that three of the new gods are female and only Kefnet and presumably Rhonas are male. [/not important.])

    Nah. Rhonas is definitely the best of the new gods or, at the very least, the most streamlined one and the easiest to "turn on". I didn't think they would make a god easier to turn on than Oketra, but given how buff the Green creatures in the first set of Amonkhet are, even without Rhonas's "I give trample to the masses" ability, he's stupid easy to enable. That he inherently has deathtouch to go with indestructible means that basically everything that isn't another god (again, including Gideon here unfortunately) dies to him. He can just shut down the ground because of that, really, and it's not like Green doesn't get flying hate.

    That said, Bontu has more potential than I initially thought she did, though she might still be outdone by Faith of the Devoted. It's difficult to tell.

    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    The Damned wrote: »
    It is perhaps because Kefnet's requirements to be a creature that can actually attack or block is the harshest of them all

    Eh, it doesn't seem that bad to me. Guess Kef will either be my pet card for this Standard or I will link to this post in the future to prove that I am an MtG prophet when Kef emerges to define new Standard.

    I was not trying to say that it was "bad" per se, since it's not like a nigh impossible requirement to meet or anything, especially in his color and given Kefnet seems like he would be wanted more by controlling builds. He definitely has the most stringent of the five new requirements, though, I doubt that he will "define new Standard", even if he will probably be usable in some capacity. It's just difficult to see in what unlike most of the new usable creatures. At present he's just kind of "there", especially since Torrential Gearhulk still exists as the new Blue "Control creature" card.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    Kef is very good. You can have 4 cards the turn you play her, following turn you have your draw step and her ability or a spell like Glimmer than can get you up to seven. I'm actually thinking for budget reasons I'll revisit Mono Blue Control because Kef would be great and I love Censor and Galestrike and Essence Scatter are both playable.

    I went 5 - 0 at a GD with that deck. The basic idea is you find Engulf The Shore with Anticipate and Glimmer and you then proceed to loop it with Gearhulk while drawing and dropping land. Eventually you Ult Jace and win essentially. It's slow as hell but it crushes a lot of midrange decks and even severely fucks with some stuff like Energy due to the Instant nature of Engulf The Shore.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    (Amonkhet is updated in Gatherer now if anyone else cares.)

    Again, I am not saying that Kefnet is bad. I'm just saying that he has the strictest requirement of all the five gods and thus he suffers for it even if his color is obviously the best at just waiting around and drawing cards since all of the other gods have more natural requirements. Part of the issue is that you actually can't play him the first turn like you're implying is because you can't get back up to seven cards on turn four unless one of your one-drops or two-drops, those cards that Blue doesn't tend to play in the first place, somehow draws you cards; one-drops and two-drops tend not to do that and if they do, then it's almost always at a cost of discarding something or sacrificing it--see Insolent Neonate. Even in both of the scenarios you posted about using her ability or using Glimmer of Genius, both of those put you back up to six cards at most--in truth they put you down to five.

    Kefnet is a turn-five creature at earliest in most cases unless I am missing something.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,115
    Personally I reckon Hazoret is best of the gods, if you're sitting on 5 mana and a full hand in red something's probably gone wrong.

    He's a curve topping hasty finisher who will beat face indefinitely and who turns all your dead draws into face damage if you need to untap again after playing him.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 19
    I could see Kefnet as maybe a two or three of along side four of gearhulk. Gearhulk can be useful to Kef by A. waiting until after opponent's combat to come down and B. recasting glimmer or the other new draw 2 spell.

    With the new blue stuff that cycles for 1, titling the dial slightly more toward card draw with a moderate amount of control rather than the current control with a little bit of draw could be effective, and Kefnet could fit in a deck like that. People are going to be able to dig for answers so much more easily. You could potentially cycle the new draw 2, pull your gearhulk, play it and then cast what you just cycled lol.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    With all the card-draw and cycling, I think you wouldn't need four Gearhulks.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,388
    In terms of Gods...I think Rhonas, Khenet, Hazoret, Bontu, Oketra in that order
    Bontu has a lot of potential, but I think there needs to be some strong Aristocrat shell to exist in standard.
    Rhonas seems to be the easiest to turn on and keep him going, and turns other creatures on your board into threats...
    Khenet seems good for the later game, but damn 7 cards in hand feel so strict lol.

    Ultimately the set did not help push forward a deck that can run Herald of Anguish and not be jank so it sucks lol...
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    SFV:Bison,Ed,Abigail.BB:Susanoo
    Ed_SFV Discord:
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  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 1,812
    Woah, didn't expect to see you leave from Oblivion Ring, @The Damned. Welcome back.

    I've been grinding Amonkhet draft on 'trice, and wow it's pretty damn fun. The best part? It seems like there are no midrange decks. IMO, the most supported strategies are either 2-color aggro in some combination of RGW, and 3+ color Cycling control ramp graveyard combo shenanigans. Trying to go full goodstuff just isn't viable; there are far too much synergy cards to try that. For instance, Green has cards that either support an aggressive Exert strategy and cards for a slower game with -1/-1 counter creatures and some monkeys to eat their counters, and trying to combine both in the same deck rarely ends well. One thing I have to nag about is that some of those artifacts feel quite busted, especially Goddamn Oketra's Monument and T3 Icy Manipulator wannabe Edifice of Authority. Also, it feels like certain color pairs just don't play well, particularly WU and UR. They're like UB in Shadows over Innistrad level of bad, hell maybe even G/X anything in Batle for Zendikar.
    TimeAttack: Grand Coward of SRK since November 18th, 2015
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    (I somewhat wish I was Oblivion Ringed given how horribly this year has gone. Nice to see you too though, @shinquickman. Also "'trice"?)

    Gods, trying to refer to the Egyptian god cards by their genders is so annoying given it's hard to remember who is what (increasingly like in real life). For example, I freaking switched genders for Kefnet mid-paragraph. Whatever. I'm just going to stick to their names for now; no, I'm not going back to edit that out.

    Since we're still speaking about Kefnet, I will admit at least two things I realized about Kefnet over the course of yesterday, one in part due to NeoBlood's post:

    1. Kefnet is the Egyptian god card that suffers the least from being the fact that gods are of course legendary since drawing another Kefnet and being forced to hold it is actually good for the active Kefnet. The only other Egyptian god card that can take direct advantage of drawing multiple copies of itself is, ironically, Kefnet's exact opposite in Hazoret.
    2. Speaking of Blue and Red making out, Kefnet actually seems like Kefnet would be pretty damn good with Fevered Visions, though in another bout of irony, Kefnet is also absolutely goddamn horrible against Fevered Visions as well, especially since Red and Blue can't do anything about enchantments already on the field in most cases. Still, I guess even playing against Fevered Visions almost guaranteed Kefnet will always be a creature that can actually attack or block; you'll just be bleeding to death while Kefnet can do so.

    Anyway, I was trying to suss out someone's Black and Blue Zombie deck from their vague comments over on MTGGoldfish's "Brewing Amonkhet" article despite wanting to go with Black and White Zombies myself and here is what I came up with--it likely sucks:


    BLACK AND BLUE ZOMBIES IN AMONKHET STANDARD:
    (In order of Converted Mana Cost)
    MAINDECK
    // Creatures & Spells (37)
    4 Cryptbreaker
    3 Dread Wanderer [Amonkhet card]
    4 Grasp of Darkness
    4 Relentless Dead
    4 Diregraf Colossus
    4 Lord of the Accursed [Amonkhet card]
    3 Never (// Return) [Amonkhet card]
    4 Prized Amalgam
    4 Stitchwing Skaab
    3 Liliana's Mastery [Amonkhet card]

    // Lands (23)
    8 Swamp
    2 Island
    1 Mortuary Mire
    4 Choked Estuary
    4 Sunken Hollow
    4 Fetid Pools [Amonkhet card]

    IN SIDEBOARD: Liliana, Death's Majesty and Negate definitely. Disallow? Dispel? Dispossess? Essence Scatter? Lost Legacy? Trespasser's Curse?

    ALSO HEAVILY CONSIDERED: 3 Festering Mummy OR 3 Miasmic Mummy; Key to the City, Compelling Deterrence, Oath of Liliana, Oath of Jace, Plague Blecher, Vizier of Many Faces, Submerged Boneyard (budget).

    It's rather annoying that are so many good Zombies in the 3-drop area, even just in Standard. It would seem that Plague Blecher and Lord of the Accursed compete for space among just the new cards, to say nothing of Diregraf Colossus and technically Prized Amalgam also being in the 3-drop area; due to this, Cursed Minotaur and Dessicated Naga are never getting despite both being actually kind of decent. The Black and White version(s) I was trying to work on seem to be less bad about this, in part because they have really good 2-drops in Binding Mummy and Wayward Servant, and more general answers that aren't at 3-CMC too, but then Gatherer started to act up, so I was forced to pause on that front (and came to bother you guys).

    ribu wrote: »
    In terms of Gods...I think Rhonas, Khenet, Hazoret, Bontu, Oketra in that order
    Bontu has a lot of potential, but I think there needs to be some strong Aristocrat shell to exist in standard.
    Rhonas seems to be the easiest to turn on and keep him going, and turns other creatures on your board into threats...
    Khenet seems good for the later game, but damn 7 cards in hand feel so strict lol.

    Ultimately the set did not help push forward a deck that can run Herald of Anguish and not be jank so it sucks lol...

    Two questions I am genuinely curious about here:

    1. With regards to the Egyptian god cards: Why do you think Oketra the True, the god with the arguably the second or third easiest requirement and Double Strike and lack of susceptibility to Dismember, is the worst? I can understand thinking Oketra is rather bland, certainly more than I can understand the forced comparisons people were using for Heliod, but the "worst" seems like a bit of a stretch. If it wasn't for all the anthems and answers that White tends to have, then I suppose I could see myself agreeing, but between stuff like Always Watching and, outside of Standard, Honor of the Pure and Brave the Elements, I can't.
    2. With regards to Herald of Anguish: You really don't think Bontu's Monument by itself is enough? I will grant there is weird lack of non-legendary artifacts, in part because apparently this set was originally supposed to be around when Kamigawa came out and we all know how legendary that was. But Bontu's Monument by itself seems good enough to build around and by itself it technically takes 2 off of Herald of Anguish, so say nothing of the other monuments. You can even sacrifice it to Herald if you have another copy in your hand due to said legendary aspect.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    edited April 19
    So far Amonkhet seems like a decent set - not great but ok, with plenty of flavour. I tested a bunch of different ideas and one thing stuck - Mardu Vehicles is a bitch. If banlist stays the same, standard isn't looking good.

    That being said, I'm actually pleased that ramp got a bunch of good stuff - I'm hoping to ressurect my favourite archetype. First, Shefet Monitor is awesome. I think overal is better than explosive vegetation - it is slower, but much more versatile, drawing a card, turning later into a threat, plus the land enters untapped AND is instant speed. Monitor might help aleviate ramp's archetypal problem - the lack of consistency.
    Then we have Sweltering Suns - I can't believe this card is so cheap, I'm ordering a full playset. It is much easier to cast than Radiant flames, and the fact that you can cycle when you don't need it makes it great. Heaven//Earth is also a very sweet card - I played numerous times windstorm in my SB, and this one is much better - In my testing, many times I was casting Heaven for X=0 and in the same turn Earth x =2. Love this card.
    Finally Sandwurm Convergence is a nice payoff card - stopping flyers is very relevant, and as an enchantment is much harder to kill.

    I will try to put together a ramp deck, order some zombies for my zombie deck, and give this standard a try.

    Post edited by Emanuelb on


  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,388
    The Damned wrote: »
    ribu wrote: »
    In terms of Gods...I think Rhonas, Khenet, Hazoret, Bontu, Oketra in that order
    Bontu has a lot of potential, but I think there needs to be some strong Aristocrat shell to exist in standard.
    Rhonas seems to be the easiest to turn on and keep him going, and turns other creatures on your board into threats...
    Khenet seems good for the later game, but damn 7 cards in hand feel so strict lol.

    Ultimately the set did not help push forward a deck that can run Herald of Anguish and not be jank so it sucks lol...

    Two questions I am genuinely curious about here:

    1. With regards to the Egyptian god cards: Why do you think Oketra the True, the god with the arguably the second or third easiest requirement and Double Strike and lack of susceptibility to Dismember, is the worst? I can understand thinking Oketra is rather bland, certainly more than I can understand the forced comparisons people were using for Heliod, but the "worst" seems like a bit of a stretch. If it wasn't for all the anthems and answers that White tends to have, then I suppose I could see myself agreeing, but between stuff like Always Watching and, outside of Standard, Honor of the Pure and Brave the Elements, I can't.
    2. With regards to Herald of Anguish: You really don't think Bontu's Monument by itself is enough? I will grant there is weird lack of non-legendary artifacts, in part because apparently this set was originally supposed to be around when Kamigawa came out and we all know how legendary that was. But Bontu's Monument by itself seems good enough to build around and by itself it technically takes 2 off of Herald of Anguish, so say nothing of the other monuments. You can even sacrifice it to Herald if you have another copy in your hand due to said legendary aspect.

    1) Well I don't think any of them are modern playable in the first place...They're too specific of conditions to make useable, and there's drastically better cards in their respective colors. None of them push any of the modern archetypes forward. In that regard at least Rhonas gets activated by almost every creature you run in Modern Abzan/Death Shadow Aggro


    2)I was really excited about the monuments when they were first shown because they're obviously a strong enabler of Improvise cards. The problem with Improvise cards are they are relatively garbage save for Herald, Rebuke, and Whirl of Invention in other formats. Also Monuments are 3 drops, coming off a format were you can basically lose if your 3rd turn doesn't set you up to deal with the amount of pressure Mardu or Saheeli decks can have at that time. Right now Herald is best situated to be a control deck finisher. The problem with that is moving forward UW looks like it will still be better, and it still has to compete with Torrential Gearhulk...Something it is obviously lackluster when compared to lol...
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    SFV:Bison,Ed,Abigail.BB:Susanoo
    Ed_SFV Discord:
    https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    edited April 25
    (Yeah, ramping into Sandwurm Convergence or hitting it off of the stupidity that is Aetherworks Marvel seems like a nice focus for a deck. The same goes for New Perspectives combined with Faith of the Devoted. It's rather amusing how the two most obvious ramp targets in the set are enchantments rather than big-ass creatures, especially compared to Theros block.)

    Hmmm...fair enough. Part of the problem with this new smaller set format means that most of the new keywords have either gotten relatively subpar support and payoff or are, in an arguably worse case, utterly insular as is the case with energy since at most one or maybe two mechanics per block have been pushed to the exclusion of almost everything else save for obnoxiously strong face cards, mostly Gatewatch planeswalkers, and some overpowered, often big-ass creatures. Part of the reason that Amonkhet seems like it's a marked improvement is because it's clearly strongly supporting at least three strong subthemes without going crazy with new, often useless keywords: cycling, -1/-1 counters, and Zombies. That it also is just generally trying to support all archtypes and actually giving answers for once helps.

    That said, Saheeli's Copycat deck in Standard is basically a dead woman walking since there's no way WotC is going to forego banning Felidar Guardian in Standard again given how utterly boring and repetitive current Standard is, even more so than it usually tends to get after a while. If I remember correctly, then WotC said WotC didn't ban Felidar Guardian during the last round of bans because, outside of their idiotic oversight of the obvious combo, WotC wanted to give it time supposedly. Well, it's had time and it's pretty clearly toxic for Standard and Felidar Guardian is far more likely to get the boot than Saheeli herself, especially since WotC apparently also said that they wouldn't have printed Felidar Guardian like that in the first place if they had seen how obviously abusive it was, at least not in Standard (with its lack of answers). Either way, that particular combo is something that I doubt anyone will have to worry about in Standard after Amonkhet drops.

    So that leaves Mardu Vehicles as the "boogeyman" of Standard, especially since all of the most problematic cards--Heart of Kiran, Unlicensed Disintergration, BfZ Gideon, Kaladesh Chandra, and Scrapheap Scrounger--are less likely than Felidar Guardian to be banned. Ironically, even if they had banned Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, now like they should have, then gave us an arguably even more obnoxious Gideon in Amonkhet for Mardu Vehicles to abuse. About the best thing I could see them banning is Heart of Kiran, but given both how new that is and how they clearly tried to print answers for it in Amonkhet, I doubt it will get banned unfortunately, especially since it's not as immediately game-ending as Felidar Guardian with Saheeli on the field is.

    I do wonder how much Mardu Vehicles would suffer if Heart of Kiran did get banned like it should though. Would they turn to running Aethersphere Harvester in its place? Or would they go to something else entirely?
    Post edited by The Damned on
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    Zulaport is still in Standard and there are scions and things like Carrier Thrall and Catacomb Sifter that die twice. Bontu could work, there are plenty of pieces there, Innistrad had a few as well. The problem is Orzhov Zombies will be better doing similar things.
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,388
    Bontu is still way slower than Yahenni as your sac outlet. But I could almost see making a split between them if that type of deck managed to come back...
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    SFV:Bison,Ed,Abigail.BB:Susanoo
    Ed_SFV Discord:
    https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I should put my money where my mouth is and preorder three kefnets and four Drake havens.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,388
    Drake Haven seems pretty good lol.
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    SFV:Bison,Ed,Abigail.BB:Susanoo
    Ed_SFV Discord:
    https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    I'll go next week to the release one or whatever

    Was this played a bunch this weekend

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=426784&type=card
  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 1,812
    I just got home from the Day 2 prerelease. Half my rares were in Green, but the card pool was so bad int that color that it wasn't worth going into, so I went W/B Zombies with my Liliana as my only bomb. My deck was just full on removal and wienies, so it was solid, if bomb lite. My record went like this:

    G1: BG/u Aggro. Lost 1-2
    G2: BR/g Aggro. Won 2-1
    G3: WR/b Aggro. Won 2-0
    G4: UB/g Control. Won 1-0-1
    G5: BU/w Zombie Aggro. Lost 0-2

    Overall, 3-2. I was already packing up to go home, but then the event runner told me that I had just enough to get to Top 8. On my Top 8 match, I fought a W/B Zombie Mirror, except my opponent had Bontu instead of Liliana. He ran out of creatures to my removal on G1, and he couldn't recover vs. a bunch of zombies tapping him every turn on G2, so I managed to get 2-0 on him and split prizes on the Top 4.

    My nephew was also there with me. He had a UBRG ramp/control deck centered on GU that I helped to build for him. Just a pile of mana fixers, big flyers, cycling cards, counterspells, and removal with Kefnet, the Mindful as his main closer. To my surprise, he managed to get into Top 8 as well. He even qualified before I did! To everyone in that room, he was "that little kid you have to watch out for". I'm a little proud of him. He lost his Top 8 match, so between me and him, we came home with 22 packs in prizes. All in all, it was a pretty good day.
    TimeAttack: Grand Coward of SRK since November 18th, 2015
  • BIG BAD MOGBIG BAD MOG Tough, yet Fluffy Joined: Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I went undefeated in the first prerelease event with B/G counters. Having 3 of that vizier of poisons was meh for me since she will be a bulk rare, but in a removal light set just chaining together counters and snakes is a lot more powerful than I thought.

    I was riding on a winning high that I decided to sign up for another one. I didn't have a pool to build anything and tried to go for a cycle deck, but sometimes your wincon is at the bottom and you were dead before the round even started. I did pull an invocation so I can't really complain.

    But for some reason I had a lot of fun helping out this one little kid just starting out in Magic. He kind of reminded me of me when I was young and getting into Magic. His "standard" deck was such a mess of things that I tried to ease him into focusing on a curve and a plan. He seemed really confused, but I went around people's leftover piles and collected enough to make a makeshift cat tribal deck. I gave him my Regal Caricar and Dusk/Dawn plus that weird snake cat. Filling in the rest with Cartouches and Oketra monuments, the deck was enough to be casual. The look on his face when he curved cats turn 1-3 into Dawn/Dusk into Caricar made me feel pretty proud to have helped him see that moment in Magic where it's like you're re-discovering the whole game again.

    He was pretty happy to be beating his friends quickly and consistently and his friends were really confused as to how they could be getting beaten by cats. This is another reason to like attending these events. I appreciated the first time someone showed me how to make a deck legit and in a way it's like I've come in full circle. Was definitely a different experience.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    This is another reason to like attending these events. I appreciated the first time someone showed me how to make a deck legit and in a way it's like I've come in full circle. Was definitely a different experience.

    I did the same thing before with VS System. Saw a little kid playing a random pile of Brotherhood characters. He seemed to want to play Big Brotherhood (it's a kind of midrange/combo deck), but he didn't have the card pool for it. I felt sorry for him trying to buy "Magneto, Master of Magnetism" cards when his budget was so low. I took him with me to the card shop and we built an entire Avengers Reservist deck (kinda aggressive midrange) for less than 20% of the cost of Big Brotherhood.

    It was just one or two weeks after the release of the Avengers set, and the hyped deck was "Avengers Leaders" which was hella expensive to build and no one cared for Reservists so they basically cost almost pennies. I was a top player in VS System and in my testing I knew Reservists were legit but Leaders was overhyped. I decided to help out a newbie and share my secret tech. No one would copy tech from a kid anyway.

    Mere weeks later Reservists was a top tier deck and all the cards shot through the roof in prices. I saw regulars at the shop offering to buy the deck from the kid for 5 times what he spent to build it. Good times.

    I did that for a kid with Poisonous Infect in Standard recently before it really became a thing. There is another guy playing Metallic Mimic with Snake, Trawler, Ballista and Scrapheap Scrounger and I threw that together for him on the cheap as he already had the Ballistas. It's pretty cool deck building for people.

    Unfortunately VS system doesn't get played here at all. Some people will play YuGiOh or Pokemon other than Magic but most CCGs don't get touched. UFS is one I've always wanted to play that just nobody cares about.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    Yeah, I wanted to try LOTR and Ctulhu card games, but nobody is playing that, mtg is the only ccg around.

    Btw, did you guys saw the new Banlist updates ? Top Banned in legacy, 2 cards restricted in vintage and nothing in standard.

    I don't like top being banned. There are other cool fringe decks that uses top - 12 posts, Imperial Painter - that are hurt by this ban. 12 post was my favourite deck in legacy so that really pisses me off. They could have banned counterbalance since it is not played in any other deck. Maybe midrange decks like Nic Fit becomes more viable now, something that I would like, but otherwise...

    As for Standard, I'm really surprised. Last GP had 6 Mardu vehicles in top 8 and ...nothing ??? Honestly my interess in standard took a big blow. I'll see how meta will look, but I'm not very excited to fight both Vehicles and copycat. And zombie fever was such a cool deck... :s


  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,955
    Top banning was the correct move but I think its going to be ugly at first. Expect to see max Leovolds and True Names and decks likes Lands,Elves,,Stompy Variations and even Burn will see a big spike in usage. This makes the blood moon decks a lot better overall but now cards like Revoker are not as good as they were and will be cut.

    I feel bad locally a dude has a all foil(what can be) Miracles deck (all he has played since I met him). Those are who I feel bad for and the people who play decks with Top like 12 post and Painter mentioned above and dumb decks like Thought Lash which take a minor hit for it.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,918 mod
    Welp, my best friend wants to quit magic now. First they banned twin and now they banned Miracles.

    Good times with this company. #Don'tPlayGoodDecks
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,313
    Pertho wrote: »
    Welp, my best friend wants to quit magic now. First they banned twin and now they banned Miracles.

    Good times with this company. #Don'tPlayGoodDecks

    I want to say "no fun allowed", but "no good decks allowed" is probably more accurate.

    Wizards taking balancing advice from Capcom =(
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,918 mod
    It isn't a balancing decision; its Ukyo's view on it. Ban things to shake up the metagame whenever it stagnates.

    Feels like affinity might get it eventually at this point.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    edited April 25
    (...It's like WotC wants to kill not only Standard, but the game in general at this point.)

    Well, this latest ban wave is arguably even fucking dumber than one that threw Reflector Mage under the bus instead of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, which is what is apparently making WotC so skittish about banning even more obvious problems now even though we now got "gifted" with two more fucking Gideons.

    Sigh. This is what I get for not just expecting the worst out of people like always.

    At least I haven't thrown away money into this stupid game in quite some time.

    *still wants to play Pauper like a masochist*
    Post edited by The Damned on
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,415
    edited April 25
    Good thing the format I play the most is Commander.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    My take is WoTC didn't touch Standard as we're getting a lot of strong cards in Amonkhet that will likely upset vehicles.
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Maybe but I'm not really convinced.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    Stuff like By Force and Harsh Mentor was clearly designed with vehicles in mind. There are a lot of really high power level cards in this set compared to some others as well.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    I don't know, I have the opposite feeling. Amonkhet seems like a flavourful set, quite fun, but doesn't look to me like a powerful one. Not sure if it's enough to alter the meta significantly.


  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    (Ugh. Fixed the omissions and typos in the second to last post.)

    That's still not an excuse though, especially since Vehicles, as ill-thought as the mechanic clearly was (at least in terms of the lack of answers printed alongside it), overall are not the issue. Basically the only really abusive Vehicle left after Smuggler's Copter got banned is Heart of Kiran, which is in part as abusive as it is due to Gideon and the lack of overall answers to planeswalkers in general and in part due to Scrapheap Scrounger and the utter nonexistence of graveyard hate for two years. Almost none of the other Vehicles (can) see any play outside of Cultivator's Caravan and far less frequently Aethersphere Harvester with perhaps a once-in-a-blue-moon Fleetwheel Cruiser appearance.

    Regardless, even if that was somehow valid, not getting rid of Felidar Guardian isn't related to Vehicles at all and thus (similarly) isn't excusable, especially since they already admitted they fucked up (immensely) with that card as it was printed. Sure, we got maybe five or six answers to the combo in Amonkhet, arguably one in every color, but the only really maindeckable answer to it, Manglehorn, dies to Shock (or Oath of Chandra or Chandra, the Flamesculptor, or...fucking Magma Spray); I suppose one could argue that Cast Out is maindeckable, but one could also argue that Cast Out is too slow since it's turn 4 and the combo is turn 4, meaning can end up useless for that purpose on the draw. I highly doubt Saheeli Copycat is going to stop dominating Standard just because Trespasser's Curse exists when two of the colors it uses can destroy enchantments and when it's not actually reliant upon the combo to win overall even if it's average without it--it's just that combo is instant-game over in almost all instances.

    Someone said that supposedly WotC had said earlier that it wanted to wait until PT Amokhet to actually decide to ban something after the backlash against the three-card Standard ban, but at this point it's rather clear that WotC is just even more inept that the increasing majority of people already knew it to be as of late. This is sad on a number of levels, especially since part of the problem is clearly, again, these damn Gatewatch characters, which is part of the reason there was a such backlash against the earlier ban since Gideon was exempted when he shouldn't have been.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    Well, if people starts maindecking Manglehorn that's just proof how warped the meta really is.


  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    I don't know, I have the opposite feeling. Amonkhet seems like a flavourful set, quite fun, but doesn't look to me like a powerful one. Not sure if it's enough to alter the meta significantly.

    Exert with Intangible Virtue will be ridiculous.

    I think there will be a number of viable decks at Pro Tour Amonkhet. Orzhov Zombies in particular looks like a solid midrange answer to aggro.

  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    Copycat isn't the problem people make it out to be with all the answers like Authority of the Consuls, Shock, Thalia and the new cards will make that combo even worse. Look at Trespassers Curse
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,693 mod
    (Pretty sure you mean Always Watching, not Intangible Virtue. Intangible Virtue only affects creature tokens and isn't even in Standard while Always Watching is the exact opposite.)

    ...Except that Authority of the Consuls, Shock, and Thalia were things that people were already using against Copycat Combo before Amonkhet dropped and, lo and behold, it was still the deck to beat. The new cards that supposedly will make the combo worse will share the same fate since none of them really synergize with any of the previous failing answers, especially since both Thalia and Manglehorn themselves die to Shock, for starters.

    As someone pointed out on the MTGGoldfish comments on the page dedicated to the latest (lack of) bans is that all that really changed is that Copycat Combo got better answers against itself in the mirror and Mardu Vehicles. So, if anything, these supposed new answers will just make Copycat Combo even more dominant since there's no reason not to play it if you want to win in Standard outside of the price tag, which is part of the problem.

    Fucking whoop.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    edited April 26
    I just found out that WMC was changed back to standard, and the nationals (that replaced wmcqs) will also be standard. I was looking forward to wmcqs this summer, I wanted to play some big modern tourneys, but now they are gone. I swear it's like Wizards are trying hard to make me quit magic.
    Modern pro tour was dropped, now WMC is also standard, I'm losing my interest in this game. Unless a really cool deck appears in standard, I might just say farewell to this game.


  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Yeah, I wanted to try LOTR and Ctulhu card games, but nobody is playing that, mtg is the only ccg around.

    Btw, did you guys saw the new Banlist updates ? Top Banned in legacy, 2 cards restricted in vintage and nothing in standard.

    I don't like top being banned. There are other cool fringe decks that uses top - 12 posts, Imperial Painter - that are hurt by this ban. 12 post was my favourite deck in legacy so that really pisses me off. They could have banned counterbalance since it is not played in any other deck. Maybe midrange decks like Nic Fit becomes more viable now, something that I would like, but otherwise...

    As for Standard, I'm really surprised. Last GP had 6 Mardu vehicles in top 8 and ...nothing ??? Honestly my interess in standard took a big blow. I'll see how meta will look, but I'm not very excited to fight both Vehicles and copycat. And zombie fever was such a cool deck... :s
    Naeras wrote: »
    Pertho wrote: »
    Welp, my best friend wants to quit magic now. First they banned twin and now they banned Miracles.

    Good times with this company. #Don'tPlayGoodDecks

    I want to say "no fun allowed", but "no good decks allowed" is probably more accurate.

    Wizards taking balancing advice from Capcom =(

    Love these posts. Notice how not much is banned in Mortal Kombat games?

    Also, FIDE is not banning The Berlin in chess...


    Bontu feels like a weak Lord Of The Pit

    @Emanuelb, one solution; make a Stasis deck in Legacy and use Isochron Scepter, etc.
  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 1,812
    TimeAttack: Grand Coward of SRK since November 18th, 2015
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,918 mod
    Preppy wrote: »

    Shitty sets with a hilariously shitty combo because the shitty cards in it can't deal.

    If the cards weren't so bad that deck wouldn't be so much of an issue.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,921
    All vehicles all the time now.