Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,381
    That monoblack card reminds me of cruel ultimatum, only you get to win the game. You could actually build an entire deck around this card imo.

    But what do I know, I'm on a possible eternal hiatus from MTG.
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    The Damned wrote: »
    (The Mono-White God Worship idea looks interesting, FrostyAU, especially since I've basically seen every other mono-color of Nykthos deck used but for some reason no White.)

    Torment of Hailfire has the potential to be quite a good card, but that wording could be better. At present, it would seem a lot of people are confused as to whether or not casting it for BB where X is 0 would result in giving you one trigger or none at all. To me, it seemed obvious that paying 0 for X gave you nothing, but now I'm not entirely sure; I'm still pretty sure though.

    Regardless, I'm sure that there will be some ruling on this when the set is officially released, but, yeah, seems like they could perhaps worded it more clearly, especially since all of the other cards thus far released with the word "repeat" on it both have that instruction after the initial action and aren't X cost cards.

    Oh well. It's not like anything's foolproof given how foolish people can be. At least the artwork is also nice if nothing else; here's a more wallpaper-size version of the artwork if anyone cares.

    The only commonly played Modern spell that kills Auriok Champion is Path. Finks die twice, Souls take 3 bolts to kill, God's don't die to much. The idea is basically that you get a Worship down and they can't clear your boardstate. Nykthos is free Ramp with a Leyline and T2 Champion. That's possibly a turn 3 Lock if they have no way to remove Champion or Worship which as a 4cmc White Enchantment isn't actually commonly removable on Modern sideboards.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,650
    So, Torment of Hailfire is actually this, right?

    Pay BB deals 3 damage.
    Pay BB and 1 mana of any color would deal 6 damage, right???
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,296
    Tourment of Hailfire will do nothing if X=0...
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
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  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,015
    Torment of Hailfire should do nothing if x=0 but this is WoCT here with their split cards which defied all common sense for so damn long, it wouldn't surprise me too much if it was ruled that it did it once with x as 0 simply because that's how dumb and counter-intuative their ruleings can be.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,015
    Thank fuck for that.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    I thought Wizards were past these stupid wording issues
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,296
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I thought Wizards were past these stupid wording issues

    :D :D :D :D :D :D
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    Ed_SFV Discord:
    https://discord.gg/w6naQPC

  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (Yeah, this wording issue is exactly the one I was talking about in last post of last page. There was probably some better way to word it, but the X = 0 = no triggers things seemed obvious to me until I saw confused people debating otherwise.)

    Speaking of Black cards from this upcoming set, I've heard it said that Claim to Fame may well end up seeing Death's Shadow getting banned from Modern and I can't say that I would be surprised if that was the case. Honestly, good riddance if so:

    claimfame.jpg

    Beyond that, I will admit that I am surprised that God-Pharaoh's Gift is far more usable than I was expecting it to be given that cards that search for other cards have tended to be underwhelming, especially when split up between sets in-block:

    gatetotheafterlife.jpg godpharaohsgift.jpg

    That said, I have to roll my eyes at idiots saying that it's as good as busted as Aetherworks Marvel despite that card's fundamentally flawed design, even if God-Pharaoh's Gift is definitely a nice Refurbish target. This especially true since the Ulamog 2.0 example I keep seeing is far more vulnerable and able to be interacted with than just randomly plucking Ulamog 2.0 out of your library and getting its cast trigger for free as well, especially now that graveyard hate finally exists again in Standard. Fools.

    FrostyAU wrote: »
    The Damned wrote: »
    (The Mono-White God Worship idea looks interesting, FrostyAU, especially since I've basically seen every other mono-color of Nykthos deck used but for some reason no White.)

    Torment of Hailfire has the potential to be quite a good card, but that wording could be better. At present, it would seem a lot of people are confused as to whether or not casting it for BB where X is 0 would result in giving you one trigger or none at all. To me, it seemed obvious that paying 0 for X gave you nothing, but now I'm not entirely sure; I'm still pretty sure though.

    Regardless, I'm sure that there will be some ruling on this when the set is officially released, but, yeah, seems like they could perhaps worded it more clearly, especially since all of the other cards thus far released with the word "repeat" on it both have that instruction after the initial action and aren't X cost cards.

    Oh well. It's not like anything's foolproof given how foolish people can be. At least the artwork is also nice if nothing else; here's a more wallpaper-size version of the artwork if anyone cares.

    The only commonly played Modern spell that kills Auriok Champion is Path. Finks die twice, Souls take 3 bolts to kill, God's don't die to much. The idea is basically that you get a Worship down and they can't clear your boardstate. Nykthos is free Ramp with a Leyline and T2 Champion. That's possibly a turn 3 Lock if they have no way to remove Champion or Worship which as a 4cmc White Enchantment isn't actually commonly removable on Modern sideboards.

    Right. I had immediately ascertained that was point of the creatures in question, though as much as I like Knight of the White Orchard and realize that it serves as ramp and pseudo-card-draw, it strikes me as a bit odd if you want creatures that are all hard to kill. Hand of Honor, Knight of Glory, (main-deck) Kor Firewalker, or even the original White Knight might be better choices overall along those lines, especially with the aforementioned Death's Shadow so popular now and likely to only get more popular. Still, it's not as if Knight of the White Orchard is completely useless for reasons already mentioned, so I could see it working well enough if everything else is so difficult to kill.

    Otherwise, yeah, the deck itself seems like it would be rather well-positioned right now from what relatively little I know about Modern, especially since Auriok Champion only really die to Path to Exile and Liliana of the Veil of the non-wrath cards (of which I am including Ugin's stupid ass) used in Modern to off creatures; I guess she and even Worship get destroyed by Beast within, but I'm not even sure if Lantern still plays that given how little I've seen Lantern as of late.

    Regardless, I hope the deck works if you end up actually using it.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    I have a weakness to Infect but I can sideboard 4 Solidarity and can sideboard for Lantern type decks as well with stuff like Stony Silence.

    I'll need to test it but basically White Orchid is like a cantrip to stop you getting stuck on 2 mana. It's also White Devotion again being WW.

    Claim to Fame is already being discussed as the missing piece to make Death's Shadow over the top since the GProbe ban. It's arguably a lot better than Kolaghan's.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (So far nothing all that interesting revealed today, though Endless Sands looks nice both visually and mechanically, Hour of Promise looks like it's probably at least really good in EDH, and Imminent Doom looks like it may have even worse wording issues than Torment of Hailfire. Sekhmet Christ.)

    Right. Infect is basically the only tiered deck you would lose to if Worship is online and unable to be interacted with short of some of the Ad Nausem lists that run Laboratory Maniac in the main-deck; I'm not sure how common that is. Other than that, I guess you can also still lose to life drain effects, like the one on Collective Brutality, given how Worship is worded to only stop damage and not general life loss. Beyond that I can't really think of any commonly played cards in Modern that I am aware of that cause life loss save for Countersquall I guess.

    Regardless, that's another reason that the deck seems well-positioned: Infect has mercifully fallen off ever since obnoxious-ass Gitaxian Probe got banned.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    The Damned wrote: »
    I can't really think of any commonly played cards in Modern that I am aware of that cause life loss save for Countersquall I guess.

    Siege Rhino

    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (Damn bots.)

    Ah, right. Siege Rhino would also get past Worship. Good catch. Not sure how I forgot about it given how obnoxiously prevalent it was before Khans fell out of Standard, which was right around the time when I started to get back into this game again. I think may just be because, horrible memory aside, I just haven't seen since it in the Modern Abzan lists that used to play since they're all focused around that insipid Devoted Druid & Vizier of Remedies combo. Only Black creatures I've been seeing in those decks have been Viscera Seer and maybe Madcap Murderous Redcap.

    Still, my bad. Thanks.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    The Damned wrote: »
    I can't really think of any commonly played cards in Modern that I am aware of that cause life loss save for Countersquall I guess.

    Siege Rhino

    Rhino isn't that commonly played and a lot of targeted player effects don't work because of Leyline.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Rhino isn't that commonly played and a lot of targeted player effects don't work because of Leyline.

    I think most Modern players just stick with whatever deck they own, and even though the "standard" abzan builds don't have Rhino there's a pretty decent chance of encountering one just because it's a cheap, strong card that was recently in print.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Rhino isn't that commonly played and a lot of targeted player effects don't work because of Leyline.

    I think most Modern players just stick with whatever deck they own, and even though the "standard" abzan builds don't have Rhino there's a pretty decent chance of encountering one just because it's a cheap, strong card that was recently in print.

    It's a $1.50 rare. It's not played at all looking at numbers. There is a hell of a lot of stuff you'll run into on average before Rhino.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    edited June 28
    According to MTG top 8 junk and the rock combined are 5%. Rhino isn't common in either it's mostly Jund with Path over terminate and Lingering Souls. Abzan Company is 7% and as a combo deck with CoCo has no room for Rhino. You'd have to be unlucky to encounter it.

    Infect would be a huge issue for Worship. Some other fringe stuff like Black Devotion.
    Post edited by FrostyAU on
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (The cards revealed today are looking rather nice so far, especially Kefnet's Last Word. That said, I do find it funny that this plane has already introduced more Zombies than Innistrad 2.0 did.)

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure Siege Rhino fell off as soon as Amonkhet came out given that the majority of decks that played it in Modern, the Abzan Company decks, asked themselves en masse "why bother pretending to play a fair game via an overpowered creature when we can just become even more of an instant-win combo deck?" as soon as they saw Vizier of Remedies and looked at her making out with Devoted Druid.

    So, at this point, you probably are more likely to get murdered out of nowhere by a Gray Merchant of Asphodel than you are by a Siege Rhino.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I guess my meta is just weird. A decent number of guys here play Siege Rhino to counter the Worships from Bant El Drazi.

    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,907
    Been playing a little Modern and have ran into rhino more than I would think. Also run into Rhino in legacy nic fit but thats expected.

    hazoretsundyingfury.jpg

    Wizards was like lets make this "last" cycle and make really strong OP cards but it takes 2 turns..... gets to red and says how about RRR for 7 damage... Nah thats dumb lets make the other 4 somewhat playable and this one pure ass cause we can.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    edited July 3
    (Yeah, Hazoret's "last" card is easily the worst card of the cycle and the worst one revealed today. Even the random Horse tribal mythic creature is far better despite there being so few (playable) horses. Only good thing about Hazoret's card is that the name hints she survives unlike the other Gods.)

    Siege Rhino is still a grossly effective card. It's just the decks that were playing having been shifting towards even more unfair things. I wouldn't be surprised there if was a resurgence towards playing it relatively soon now that Solemnity exists, especially if Vizier of Remedies gets banned from Modern. I'm unsure how likely that is though; it just seems more likely than Devoted Druid getting banned. I could also see becoming more common against if Death's Shadow gets the boot, which seems increasingly likely.
    Post edited by The Damned on
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    The Damned wrote: »
    (The cards revealed today are looking rather nice so far, especially Kefnet's Last Word. That said, I do find it funny that this plane has already introduced more Zombies than Innistrad 2.0 did.)

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure Siege Rhino fell off as soon as Amonkhet came out given that the majority of decks that played it in Modern, the Abzan Company decks, asked themselves en masse "why bother pretending to play a fair game via an overpowered creature when we can just become even more of an instant-win combo deck?" as soon as they saw Vizier of Remedies and looked at her making out with Devoted Druid.

    So, at this point, you probably are more likely to get murdered out of nowhere by a Gray Merchant of Asphodel than you are by a Siege Rhino.

    Even without Devoted Druid Vizier is another Melira for Finks combo. Plus you've got Wall of Roots. Company is definitely one of the best decks in Modern right now along with Death's Shadow
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,253
    I think Vizier+druid combo is overated. It's not like Coco needed another melira - they weren't playing the full set of meliras anyway. Druid is also worse by himself than wall of roots.
    The potential of making infinite mana is cute, but you require 2 2cmc creatures that are both boltable, you need to untap with them, and even then you aren't winning - you need somethign else to win the game, usually a duskwatch which is yet another 2cmc boltable creature. Worth noting that in GP Vegas there was 0 coco decks in top 16 and only 1 in top 32. I'm more interested in exploring Vizier+ druid combo in a green devotion shell.

    Also, Siege Rhino was never played in coco decks, but in regular abzan midrange. And Rhino made an appearance at Gp Vegas - there was an abzan deck with rhinos in top 16.



  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    Infinite mana with Walking Ballista has been a thing recently but likely it's more flavour of the month than anything because of its weaknesses.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,907
    While not the best set it does have a lot of flavor and since the GP here in PHX is limited I will be playing this set a lot and it looks good for limited.

    My guess for best 4 cards for anything not standard.

    Ammit Eternal
    Bontu's Last Reckoning
    Nimble Obstructionist
    Ramunap Excavator
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (It's weird that arguably the best card revealed today is a Common given Tragic Lesson's "drawback" isn't really that much of a drawback. Hell, a lot of the time it's an outright advantage.)

    Uh...that seems a bit early to call it given there are still about 70 cards left to be revealed even if they'll mostly be Uncommons and Commons, even if it's rather likely that a large amount of them are going to be mediocre-at-best cards.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I feel super vindicated about the Rhino now, thanks.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,829 mod
    BR3N7 wrote: »
    While not the best set it does have a lot of flavor and since the GP here in PHX is limited I will be playing this set a lot and it looks good for limited.

    My guess for best 4 cards for anything not standard.

    Ammit Eternal
    Bontu's Last Reckoning
    Nimble Obstructionist
    Ramunap Excavator

    When's GP Phoenix?
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • riburibu A Return to Form Joined: Posts: 2,296
    Given recent spoilers I defintely believe they are trying to push a Grixis control deck.
    PSN/CFN- Ribu_the_Luster
    Ed_SFV Discord:
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    I feel super vindicated about the Rhino now, thanks.

    It's still not super common man, it's only $1.50 currently.

    One deck I'd like to see Rhino alongside is Wilt-Leaf Liege with mana dorks and township. Put Souls and Finks in there, maybe Voice. That would be a fun Stompy deck but decks like that are way too fair for Modern right now.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    I had ideas for that God Worship thing as well. Drop Procession for Flickerwisp as works well with Finks, Champion and Devotion etc. And drop White Orchid for Wall of Omens as having excess mana and cycling bulk cards can help find Worship. I think the deck can win without Worship but it should be a bit more consistent as a Sun Titan style of deck this way.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (Noted about Siege Rhino.)

    In looking at the rest of the Hour of Devastation cards, ignoring the fact that Resilient Khenra got spoiled twice for some reason, it seems like both Haptra and the Pauper Exert Warriors deck I was trying to make a lot of new stuff as did Zombies. Minotaurs didn't really get much save for finally getting another new two-drop without a downside, but Minotaurs not getting that much support isn't that surprising unfortunately; the same goes for there being no White-Green cat lord card. Hell, we didn't even get a White-Green card multicolor card.

    About the most surprising thing revealed today was them putting Afflict onto a piece of Equipment as a keyword. I have to wonder where Afflict would fall under the mechanical color pie post that Rosewater put up earlier in June apparently if it ever shows up again: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,907
    Pertho wrote: »

    When's GP Phoenix?

    End of October and the last time the set will be used which is even better so by then I can have more info to look at especially when it comes to drafting the set.

    Funny with some of the other Legacy players here it was like should we play in the main event with no byes or the Legacy side events.

  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,015
    edited July 1
    BR3N7 wrote: »
    While not the best set it does have a lot of flavor and since the GP here in PHX is limited I will be playing this set a lot and it looks good for limited.

    My guess for best 4 cards for anything not standard.

    Ammit Eternal
    Bontu's Last Reckoning
    Nimble Obstructionist
    Ramunap Excavator

    I reckon the manland is up there too, having land in your graveyard seems like a given in any format with legal fetches, seems almost like a Mutavault which traded tribal synergy for bulk.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    Ammit Eternal seems pretty playable. It's definitely going to be a mainstay in any zombie deck. It's probably good enough for other formats, especially if there is a good way to abuse the neg counters.
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,381
    edited July 1
    5/5 for 3 that is splashable is ridiculous. And I thought Gurmag Angler was fun. Lol. It also deals guaranteed damage.

    EDIT: Other than that I'm not feeling too much from this set
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    edited July 1
    There are a few oddly playable commons. God Pharoah's Faithful for example could slide into a Jeskai Control list vs. aggro and double as a wall and cheap lifegain. It's not even boltable.

    Not a common but Overwhelming Splendour is also one of those cards that looks unplayable until someone finds a way to cheat it out as well. Especially in Commander it's nasty.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    I think my personal favourite for cards in this set is probably Hollow One though. It's very easy to power that out for 1 mana or less. Stuff like Cathartic Reunion will obviously go off. It's not a deck on it's own but it's definitely a cool piece for a potential deck.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,253
    The set overall is fairly underpowered, I wonder howmany mythics will see play, if any. That being said, I love Hour of Promise and hour of devastation. These 2 alone will make ramp viable again. Previosly in GR I had no reliable way to deal with Gideon - I was handling the creatures, stabilizing, then a Gideon came down I lost. Hour of devastation is fantastic.
    As for Hour of Promise, it is not Prime Time, but still really good. Ironically, first time I read it I was like meh, 5 mana for 2 lands is not great...but the fact that you can get any land i awesome. getting 2 Shrines for a t5 Ulamog is groovy. You can play a westvale abbey+spawning bed package. Great stuff.


  • Machineking1313Machineking1313 Infamous User Joined: Posts: 1,449
    The new set is really boring looking, granted, Standard always looks boring compared to Modern. I guess they are bring back the modern pro tour for the 3rd time. Hope they keep it this time. I only play Modern, yes, it is expensive the first time you get your deck, but then you save all that money because even Merfolk is still good after all these years.

    I play Jund btw, somebody told me that Dark Confidant was not good. That man immediately lost all cred with me, even his street cred.
    Everyone! Get your torches lit and your pitchforks ready! We are storming Capcom's headquarters while shouting "SHORYUKEN!!!!"

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  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,907
    Commander is actually kind of fun.. Been playing 1vs1 MTGO commander the last 2 days.. Shit is essentially legacy with like this feel of pauper..
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    Meh. The new set is fine to me, if only because it's finally starting to put answers back into Standard after two years. For example, it's rather telling that Abrade is literally the first Instant Red artifact destruction in Standard after the reprint of Smash to Smithereens left two years ago. That's...fucking sad, to say nothing of them only finally giving back graveyard destruction after more than three years.

    That said, most of the new Mythics are mediocre-at-best, but that's also fine with me given the pretext for them bilking people with Mythic rarity to begin with was that the cards printed at that rarity were supposed to not be format or deck-defining, much less across multiple decks, most of the time even though that's too often what they've turned out to be. So I'm glad that most usable Mythic revealed from "Hour of Devastation"'s spoiler was arguably either The Scorpion God or The Scarab God, neither of which can just be plopped into any deck like too many of the recent Planeswalkers can as long as they're on-color.

    I just think it would have been good if we had gotten a Green-White Cat lord like a bunch of people had wanted (so that they could shut up about it). That and more Minotaur support. Oh well.

    Emanuelb wrote: »
    The set overall is fairly underpowered, I wonder howmany mythics will see play, if any. That being said, I love Hour of Promise and hour of devastation. These 2 alone will make ramp viable again. Previosly in GR I had no reliable way to deal with Gideon - I was handling the creatures, stabilizing, then a Gideon came down I lost. Hour of devastation is fantastic.
    As for Hour of Promise, it is not Prime Time, but still really good. Ironically, first time I read it I was like meh, 5 mana for 2 lands is not great...but the fact that you can get any land i awesome. getting 2 Shrines for a t5 Ulamog is groovy. You can play a westvale abbey+spawning bed package. Great stuff.

    Yeah, Hour of Promise and Hour of Devastation are pretty good, especially for Standard ramp. I think too many people are unfairly comparing Hour of Promise to Primeval Titan. While the comparison makes sense in terms of what they both do, no one should be acting like Primeval Titan isn't one of the most overpowered (non-legendary) creatures to ever be printed. Even being a "half-as-good Primeval Titan" still is pretty damn good, especially since it's 5 CMC rather than 6 CMC. (For the record, I'm not saying this is your assessment.)

    In fact, I would say that all of the Hours are pretty good...except for Hour of Eternity. I don't know what they were thinking with that one's mana cost. They should have made it X2UUU or something rather than double XX cost plus UUU.

    FrostyAU wrote: »
    There are a few oddly playable commons. God Pharoah's Faithful for example could slide into a Jeskai Control list vs. aggro and double as a wall and cheap lifegain. It's not even boltable.

    Not a common but Overwhelming Splendour is also one of those cards that looks unplayable until someone finds a way to cheat it out as well. Especially in Commander it's nasty.

    Bitter-Heart Witch says "Hello". In EDH, Academy Rector says "Oh, one-sided Humility? That's my fetish."

    Seriously, though, Overwhelming Splendour is probably what helped them come to the decision to ban Aetherwork Marvels, even if Marvel's stupid ass should have been better balanced from the get-go.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • LiangHuBBBLiangHuBBB Joined: Posts: 2,090
    anyone here playing Gwent?
    www.youtube.com/user/LiangHuBBB
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    The Damned wrote: »
    Meh. The new set is fine to me, if only because it's finally starting to put answers back into Standard after two years. For example, it's rather telling that Abrade is literally the first Instant Red artifact destruction in Standard after the reprint of Smash to Smithereens left two years ago. That's...fucking sad, to say nothing of them only finally giving back graveyard destruction after more than three years.

    That said, most of the new Mythics are mediocre-at-best, but that's also fine with me given the pretext for them bilking people with Mythic rarity to begin with was that the cards printed at that rarity were supposed to not be format or deck-defining, much less across multiple decks, most of the time even though that's too often what they've turned out to be. So I'm glad that most usable Mythic revealed from "Hour of Devastation"'s spoiler was arguably either The Scorpion God or The Scarab God, neither of which can just be plopped into any deck like too many of the recent Planeswalkers can as long as they're on-color.

    I just think it would have been good if we had gotten a Green-White Cat lord like a bunch of people had wanted (so that they could shut up about it). That and more Minotaur support. Oh well.

    Emanuelb wrote: »
    The set overall is fairly underpowered, I wonder howmany mythics will see play, if any. That being said, I love Hour of Promise and hour of devastation. These 2 alone will make ramp viable again. Previosly in GR I had no reliable way to deal with Gideon - I was handling the creatures, stabilizing, then a Gideon came down I lost. Hour of devastation is fantastic.
    As for Hour of Promise, it is not Prime Time, but still really good. Ironically, first time I read it I was like meh, 5 mana for 2 lands is not great...but the fact that you can get any land i awesome. getting 2 Shrines for a t5 Ulamog is groovy. You can play a westvale abbey+spawning bed package. Great stuff.

    Yeah, Hour of Promise and Hour of Devastation are pretty good, especially for Standard ramp. I think too many people are unfairly comparing Hour of Promise to Primeval Titan. While the comparison makes sense in terms of what they both do, no one should be acting like Primeval Titan isn't one of the most overpowered (non-legendary) creatures to ever be printed. Even being a "half-as-good Primeval Titan" still is pretty damn good, especially since it's 5 CMC rather than 6 CMC. (For the record, I'm not saying this is your assessment.)

    In fact, I would say that all of the Hours are pretty good...except for Hour of Eternity. I don't know what they were thinking with that one's mana cost. They should have made it X2UUU or something rather than double XX cost plus UUU.

    FrostyAU wrote: »
    There are a few oddly playable commons. God Pharoah's Faithful for example could slide into a Jeskai Control list vs. aggro and double as a wall and cheap lifegain. It's not even boltable.

    Not a common but Overwhelming Splendour is also one of those cards that looks unplayable until someone finds a way to cheat it out as well. Especially in Commander it's nasty.

    Bitter-Heart Witch says "Hello". In EDH, Academy Rector says "Oh, one-sided Humility? That's my fetish."

    Seriously, though, Overwhelming Splendour is probably what helped them come to the decision to ban Aetherwork Marvels, even if Marvel's stupid ass should have been better balanced from the get-go.

    Marvel was always too random but you're right about those other two cards with Overwhelming Splendour. I'm thinking Bitterheart Witch with it could even be fringe playable in some kind of casual combo deck for Modern.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (I thought there was already a thread for Gwent, @LiangHuBBB; I am pretty sure there is. Unless you were just asking in here, in which case, no, I personally do not. By Hades, I don't even really play this one still/yet.)

    Speaking of gods, my gods, why did you quote all of that, especially just to respond with two lines? Please delete or at least trim down the above quote, @FrostyAU. No one needs to see all of that again, much less on the same page, and I would rather not edit other people's posts unless I think it's absolutely necessary.

    Now, in effort to reply with something substantial, I will say that I agree that Aetherworks Marvel is/was random because of course is/was; it would be rather difficult to argue against an obvious point that no one was arguing against in the first place. I will point out, however, the equally obvious fact that it being random didn't/doesn't stop it from degenerate & overpowered, at least in Standard, and poorly designed in-between it being fueled by a mechanic that opponents can't actually interact with in the form of energy counters, being able to activate as soon as it comes down which only further limits the lack of interactivity as they spin the wheel for Ulamog 2.0, and actually benefiting from the Legendary rule unlike most Legendary cards nowadays (that aren't creatures for EDH). Aetherworks Marvel was far from unbeatable (when it whiffed), but it was still fucking dumb.

    With regards to Overwhelming Splendor in Modern, I'm pretty sure that when it drops, a bunch of the more casual players will be using the "Curse Tribal" list that SaffronOlive posted on his Jank Set Review over at MTGGoldfish given how many of them seem to be keeping up with that place's updates nowadays. I will link to it here and also post the list right below for anyone who doesn't want to click on said link for whatever reason: Hour of Devastation: Jank Set Review.


    Curse Tribal in Modern
    Creatures (4)
    4 Bitterheart Witch
    Spells (12)
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Go for the Throat
    3 Dismember
    2 Dark Petition
    Artifacts (5)
    4 Orzhov Signet
    1 Knowledge Pool
    Enchantments (15)
    4 Ghostly Prison
    2 Curse of Exhaustion
    4 Curse of Death's Hold
    2 Curse of Misfortunes
    2 Sphere of Safety
    1 Cruel Reality
    Others (1)
    1 Overwhelming Splendor
    Lands (23)
    4 Concealed Courtyard
    4 Godless Shrine
    4 Marsh Flats
    3 Plains
    4 Shambling Vent
    4 Swamp

    If nothing else, then the above list made me aware that Curse of Misfortunes even existed in the first place.
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    Not editing anything. Make smaller posts lol
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,253
    Man, I really like the UW Monument deck Todd Anderson played. I tested a bit and it looks really good, I think I will put it together.


  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,787
    I had to search up what that was but it looks really solid. Only big issue I can see is most of the deck rotates soon
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,657 mod
    (Gatherer has had Hour of Devastation's set uploaded to it as Wednesday if anyone cares.)

    I had to check Deckstats just now to see what either of you was talking about. I assume this is the decklist that you're both talking about: https://deckstats.net/decks/63240/765741-w-u-monument/en.

    Main (60)
    1 Archangel Avacyn
    4 Bygone Bishop
    3 Cloudblazer
    2 Dusk // Dawn
    4 Hanweir Militia Captain
    3 Irrigated Farmland
    3 Island
    3 Metallic Rebuke
    4 Oketra's Monument
    8 Plains
    4 Port Town
    4 Prairie Stream
    4 Selfless Spirit
    4 Spell Queller
    2 Stasis Snare
    4 Thraben Inspector
    3 Westvale Abbey

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Angel of Sanctions
    2 Declaration in Stone
    1 Dispel
    1 Dusk // Dawn
    3 Essence Scatter
    2 Fragmentize
    3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
    1 Stasis Snare
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse