Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    edited July 24
    So I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a Magic set so that I can participate at my local's weekend events. Of course, I want the best chance of winning but what pack would you recommend I start with? Reminder that I have zero cards and want a place to begin where I can also have a competitive deck to work with. I took a peek at some of these Eldrazi decks and they are well over 500 dollars for a deck. I don't have it like that but what would you guys recommend?

    You remind me of me in 1995. I had zero cards then. My first 60 cards ever was a 4th edition starter deck. It had a Dancing Scimitar.

    Long story short; I got into Magic when I saw a group of people playing Magic in our high school's career center during lunch a table over. Our table was playing D&D. Our DM was always stoned so it took forever to get anything done in our campaign. Some of those people playing Magic were in some of my classes as well.

    Starter decks and core sets aren't being produced anymore; I would have recommended a core set.

    I did hear that Wizards might make core sets again though. Guess Origins was like the last core set.
  • javertjavert 'sup Joined: Posts: 1,174
    Quick question about Standard: how cheap and how good are red decks right now?

    I ask this as a player who hates to play against RDW style of balls-to-the-walls aggro. The Tarkir days of Goblin Rabblemaster everywhere put me off for years but I'm tempted to give it a try provided I don't get to play all day against the same 10 dollars deck.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,471
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    So I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a Magic set so that I can participate at my local's weekend events. Of course, I want the best chance of winning but what pack would you recommend I start with? Reminder that I have zero cards and want a place to begin where I can also have a competitive deck to work with. I took a peek at some of these Eldrazi decks and they are well over 500 dollars for a deck. I don't have it like that but what would you guys recommend?

    You remind me of me in 1995. I had zero cards then. My first 60 cards ever was a 4th edition starter deck. It had a Dancing Scimitar.

    Long story short; I got into Magic when I saw a group of people playing Magic in our high school's career center during lunch a table over. Our table was playing D&D. Our DM was always stoned so it took forever to get anything done in our campaign. Some of those people playing Magic were in some of my classes as well.

    Starter decks and core sets aren't being produced anymore; I would have recommended a core set.

    I did hear that Wizards might make core sets again though. Guess Origins was like the last core set.

    Wizards did stop the core set, and tried to change up the block cycle.
    But the whole thing was very poorly received. Magic going back to the old 3 sets per block and core set cycle again after Dominaria.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,323
    javert wrote: »
    Quick question about Standard: how cheap and how good are red decks right now?

    I ask this as a player who hates to play against RDW style of balls-to-the-walls aggro. The Tarkir days of Goblin Rabblemaster everywhere put me off for years but I'm tempted to give it a try provided I don't get to play all day against the same 10 dollars deck.

    It's been a long time since RDW was this good in Standard, to my knowledge. You might want to run a Chandra in the sideboard, but otherwise everything is pretty cheap. Hazoret is otherwise the most expensive card in most lists.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    platynumx wrote: »
    I don't know how viable an infect deck is anymore post fatal push but blue green infect is fairly budget friendly and was quite effective. Excluding the obvious Noble hierarch for budgeting reasons (like 60-80 a pop).

    Infect is G/U and it's still a top tier deck but it has taken a lot of hits. GProbe ban, Push and now Solemnity. The meta is moving away from it. In a lot of ways Death's Shadow is taking it's place as the win fast pseudo-combo deck.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Okay. Big event next year. Team Unified Modern. Basically you collect results as a group of 3 and you can give each other advice mid-game. Other than that, you're not allowed to share cards other than basic lands, so basically if one deck is running something, the others can't, includes sideboards.

    I don't know exactly what I'll take because I don't know exactly who I'm pairing with but I'll probably run UWR Control or Soul Sistas. I'm thinking of pairing with Jund and Infect at this stage but we need to sort out teams still. One of the guys is almost definitely taking Lantern, another is almost definitely taking WB Eldrazi Taxes. We might have a guy bringing Ad Nauseum and another bringing Titanshift.

  • FatalSeabassFatalSeabass Seabass is lethal! Joined: Posts: 1,043
    That sounds pretty cool. Also, what's Lantern?
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    That sounds pretty cool. Also, what's Lantern?

    There is a card called Lantern of Insight. It lets you see the top card on each player's library. Basically it's a combo where a bunch of artifacts tap to mill the top card of their library and you stop them drawing what they need. It has other stuff like Ensnaring Bridge to stop them killing you. It's a very hard deck to play. It's like pro/expert level Magic.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,471
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    That sounds pretty cool. Also, what's Lantern?

    There is a card called Lantern of Insight. It lets you see the top card on each player's library. Basically it's a combo where a bunch of artifacts tap to mill the top card of their library and you stop them drawing what they need. It has other stuff like Ensnaring Bridge to stop them killing you. It's a very hard deck to play. It's like pro/expert level Magic.

    One issue I have not with just your last statement, it's also with the community it self.
    "It's a very hard deck to play. It's like pro/expert level Magic."

    Since when hard to pilot decks automatically equate to Pro/Expert level?
    There are some Tournament winning pro decks that were really easy to play.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Darksakul wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    That sounds pretty cool. Also, what's Lantern?

    There is a card called Lantern of Insight. It lets you see the top card on each player's library. Basically it's a combo where a bunch of artifacts tap to mill the top card of their library and you stop them drawing what they need. It has other stuff like Ensnaring Bridge to stop them killing you. It's a very hard deck to play. It's like pro/expert level Magic.

    One issue I have not with just your last statement, it's also with the community it self.
    "It's a very hard deck to play. It's like pro/expert level Magic."

    Since when hard to pilot decks automatically equate to Pro/Expert level?
    There are some Tournament winning pro decks that were really easy to play.

    Yeah there are. Pro is a misused term for sure. You can be a pro at simple things as well as complex ones. You can also win without being the most skilled person in the room thanks to favourable matches and good draws.

    What I was trying to say though is that while Lantern Control is interesting and has won a couple of GPs for the amount of people that try it the success rate is low. Partly that's due to inherent issues with the deck and bad matches but largely it's related to the room for player error. It's not autopilot.

  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Naeras wrote: »
    javert wrote: »
    Quick question about Standard: how cheap and how good are red decks right now?

    I ask this as a player who hates to play against RDW style of balls-to-the-walls aggro. The Tarkir days of Goblin Rabblemaster everywhere put me off for years but I'm tempted to give it a try provided I don't get to play all day against the same 10 dollars deck.

    It's been a long time since RDW was this good in Standard, to my knowledge. You might want to run a Chandra in the sideboard, but otherwise everything is pretty cheap. Hazoret is otherwise the most expensive card in most lists.

    Just coming back to this because there were just 5 of them in Pro Tour top 8.

    RDW was very strong during Theros/Khans/Origins due to the combination of stuff like Abbot of Keral Keep with Swiftspear and some of the Theros burn that was around. It wasn't quite at this level of strength though and benefited from Theros rotating out shortly after.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,323
    RDW and Burn were really strong during RTR/Theros as well. Boros Burn was one of the best decks in that format. RDW was quite good too, it was a meta call though as it had one almost unwinnable matchup (blue devotion), but did well against the other top dogs.
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,967
    Anytime you get a 2/2 haste creature and a 2 cost burn for 3 damage its a great combination. Like I said I invested just a small amount in Earthshaker Khenra and was rewarded for understanding that logic.

    I am sad its the best deck in the format tho.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Standard is basically your cookie cutter aggro and midrange decks right now. It's very bland. I'm not sure how but they've made the most vanilla version of Magic I can recall seeing since Tribal vs. Tribal in Lorwyn/Alara
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Tbh when I came in again WoTC had cut off rdw's balls so hard we didn't even have a fucking shock, I'm fine with it getting some shine again.

    Trying a G/B/Colourless Eldrazi midrange build with Hour of Promise ender right now, teched in a playset of Gonti's Machinations to help the red matchup and offset damage from deserts.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    I've been thinking of decks to counter play aggro like WB midrange but honestly I just don't feel like investing in Standard right now
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,967
    I asked someone who plays all formats on Sunday if white was good because when Red Aggro is great then white usually becomes playable. He said you could make a Wx deck and you would beat the red deck every game lose to be underdogged vs everything else.

  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    BR3N7 wrote: »
    I asked someone who plays all formats on Sunday if white was good because when Red Aggro is great then white usually becomes playable. He said you could make a Wx deck and you would beat the red deck every game lose to be underdogged vs everything else.

    There are a handful of White hosers in Standard at the moment and those generally level the playing field a bit. Black is full of playable stuff as well so I feel it could work. Standard just isn't fun though so why invest in a deck that will get banned or rotate...
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,258
    yeah, every single top tier deck is aggro or midrange-aggro, it's pretty boring. You know, for how much hate that card took, Siege Rhino allowed a lot of archetypes to flourish. I remember Theros/Khans when every week a different deck was winning. It was the last great format, then BfZ dropped and standard turned bad. My big concern with mono red being the best is that games become even more random - keep a meh hand or miss a land drop and you are toasted.


  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    As someone that likes Control this current Standard rotation is bleh...
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    Under the new/recent MTG rules (still trying to get used to it and the stack); can the following happen?

    Platinum Angel in play
    Final Fortune on Isochron Scepter

    Gives you infinite turns!!!!
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,323
    edited August 5
    Yep, that works. It's been like that for many years though, so not sure I'd call it "new".
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Had a small Modern event yesterday. Came second. I dropped a round to 5 colour humans. I had the matchup advantage but got unlucky. He has a well oiled deck as well.

    Basically it runs the 5 colour sliver mana base. Runs Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, Burning Tree Emissary, Lightning Mauler, Mantis Rider, Voltaic Brawler, Mayor of Avarbruck, Lyev Skyknight and Experiment One. It's basically just swarms the field, it can turn 3 kill but relies a lot on building a continual boardpresence
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    Naeras wrote: »
    Yep, that works. It's been like that for many years though, so not sure I'd call it "new".

    Nice, but don't think Final Fortune is legal in Modern.

    I did have the old Shared Fate Leveler combo back in 2003...
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Hmmm Games Day tomorrow and I'm expecting a lot of netdecked red deck wins, got 3 decks ready but not sure which to go with.

    1) Aetherborn Tribal with 4 Gonti's Machinations and 4 Gifted Aetherborn as life gain with Aethersphere Harvesters in the side board if that isn't enough.

    2) Jund that's hoping to just outspeed it and end the game with Samut, with Hapatras teched in to force RDW to either keep a blocker up, take time out to remove it or start getting it's creatures crippled or murked.

    3) B/G/Colourless Eldrazi ramp, got Gonti's Machinations teched in for life gain and I'm running the standard Eldrazi package from 3-5 with mainboarded Yahenni's expertise and that Demon Zombie Crocodile thing, end goal is using Hour of Promise to plop down 2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods and dropping Kozilek.

    Besides "Fuck all that build a white deck with Authority of the Consuls, or just go RDW as well" which one sounds like it has the best chance here?

    I've got a B/W/G Snek deck built as well but that feels too risky if people are running soul-scar mage so that one's taking some time out.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • platynumxplatynumx Because I have willed it. Joined: Posts: 140
    I've been testing this on xmage . My attempt to beat "red deck wins" seeing as that is what everyone wants to run in standard. Haven't thought of a sideboard yet.Seems to be a decent matchup.
    Land (24)
    4x Blooming Marsh
    8x Forest
    4x Hissing Quagmire
    8x Swamp
    Planeswalker (4)
    4x Liliana, the Last Hope
    Sorcery (10)
    2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
    4x Driven / Despair
    4x Rhonas's Last Stand
    Instant (8)
    4x Blossoming Defense
    4x Without Weakness
    Creature (10)
    4x Bontu the Glorified
    4x Rhonas the Indomitable
    2x Verdurous Gearhulk
    Artifact (4)
    4x Heart of Kiran
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Tbh I'm not sure how it is outside of hitting a Bontu's turn 4, you don't appear to have any early game, taking a turn out after Rhonas Last stand or a Bontu's that doesn't completely blow the opponent out feels suicidal and you have 12 pump spells with barely any unconditional creatures.

    I mean if you havent already bought the paper cards for this I'd seriously back off before foring up ebay.

    Reds aim is simple, it curves out with creatures which don't let yours block and that are hasty so they do their job before removal can hit them, your deck doesn't seem to do much to counter that tbh.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • platynumxplatynumx Because I have willed it. Joined: Posts: 140
    Lol no early game? Ideally heart of Kiran turn 2 either god crews it turn 3 preferably rhonas, turn four bontu,rhonas condition gets met..Start swinging for the fences. Drop reckoning to clear their stuff out. I dunno though. Could be better thought out I guess.

    But no I don't play much magic in real life due to a lack of an lgs that isn't 1 1/2 hour drive away and damn sure wouldn't play standard. Imo the internet has all but completely ruined mtg.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    edited August 6
    I can see that with that curve, on the very best route you have for damage, with no room for stopping blockers until turn 5 you can goldfish a turn 5 win, RDW has multiple paths to that and stops your creatures blocking at the same time whilst usually running at least 8 kill spells so it can disrupt it's opponent when needed too.

    Your first 2 turns are big do nothings, you either drop heart of Kiran at best or you just sit on your hands. (I'm not even entertaining the throught of Turn 2 Rhonas Last Stand as taking the one turn half your deck becomes castable on off is bad times) and even dropping Heart of Kiran on turn 2 doesn't affect the board at all.

    This means that on the play, your opponent has free reign to stack cards under Bomat Courier or that Village Messenger is probably flipping, on the draw, your opponent doesn't have to exert their Ahn Crop Crusher when they drop it so can swing with it twice in a row, exerting the next turn to stop your Bontu or Heart of Kiran blocking.

    This leaves you, (assuming your opponent doesn't brick) on the play being on 13 life on your turn 4 and on the draw going into your turn 4 on 6 life unless you take turn 3 out to drop Bontu's Last Reckoning and that's assuming your opponent didn't play any cards on turn 4.

    And the calculations for those life totals were basing the curve on the opponent playing no Sunscorched Desert and having their 1 drop be Bomat Courier rather than Village Messenger, Soulscar Mage or that 1 drop 2/1 Vampire, the possibility of not even seeing turn 4 with your deck on the draw isn't just magical christmas land.

    I like the concept of swinging in with Heart of Kiran and Rhonas but right now I think you'll have trouble with the RDW matchup.

    I mean what I'd change would be dropping the pump, your main threats are big enough that you don't need it, that would free up 12 slots immediately which you could then use to add some 1 and 2 drops, if you wanted to go full meta "Fuck this deck" whilst still having cards that are usable in other matches I'd slot in the following there.

    x4 Gonti's Machinations (In this matchup it's lifegain and reach, in other's it's reach)
    x4 Gifted Aetherborn (In this matchup since your blockers don't work it keeps attacking to gain life, in other matchups it says "I don't give a fuck how big your snek is, we trading")
    x4 Collective Brutality (In this matchup it gives you lifegain and removal, vs control you get rid of the opponent's counters, it'd work extra well in your deck since it'll let you get some use out of excess Rhonas, Hearts and Lilianas in your hand)

    I'd also be tempted to drop Bontu as right now it seems all he is is a brick that does nothing but turn on Rhonas and replace him with another 3 drop, I'd recommend Amnit Eternal as he turns on Rhonas the same, is out of burn range unless the opponent casts a spell beforehand and can actually swing himself too.

    Bontu's reckoning would be a necessary evil to survive before making the changes I recommend, but with them you could probably go up to Yahenni's Expertise instead, it would come a turn later (which you don't mind on the play) but it doesn't stop your lands untapping next turn, it gives you tempo by letting you drop a 3 drop or less off it and because it's -3-3 rather than destroy if you drop a Collective Brutality off it it will even kill Hazoret, not something you'd expect to do regularly, but a nice possibility to have.

    Rhona's Last Stand, I really don't like, you don't want to play it turn 2 when the token is best and every turn after it the token becomes less relevant and lands tapped to play other stuff alongside it also stay tapped the next turn, pretty much any 2 drop spell you could replace it with would usually be better, don't have any specific recommendations but a few good ones available in G/B are Glint Sleeve Siphoner, Grasp of Darkness (Kills Hazorets/ Sneks/Heart of Kirans), Channeler Initiate and Scrapheap Scrounger. (I've toyed with Hapatra for the RDW matchup, she feels good since she cripples or kills it's creatures whilst doing damage and letting you go wider which RDW can have trouble handling but not essential and I'd only run 3 max, also since she has to do combat damage to hit she suffers in other matchups)

    With these changes you'd be able to stick to your current gameplan of stomp around with an indestructable Rhonas and Heart of Kiran but you'll have more ways to both deal with the RDW matchup and to disrupt other decks too.

    Also if you want to get really techey you could switch one of your lands to Gier Reach Sanitorium, in your other matchups you have to take the double sidedness into account but you will usually get more value out of it due to needing to cycle extra legendaries and Liliana's ability to go fish creatures back from your yard and vs RDW you can do it when they have to hand for purely 1 sided looting.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    I've noticed Japanese are strong in Magic.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    I'm a bit out of touch with Standard but stuff like Gifted Aetherborn, Glorybound Initiate and Aerial Responder should give Burn and all in aggro type decks a lot of problems. God Pharoah's Faithful is a bit of a Kor Firewalker style of card as well.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Eh white doesn't need to think about it, just drop Authority of the Consuls and win target game vs rdw as it is now lol.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    If this is true (see name on design team) then we're about to get some OG Magic back in the mix just in time for 25th anniversary of Magic...

    https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Dominaria
  • BR3N7BR3N7 Todays "fake news" is tomorrows "everyone does it" Joined: Posts: 1,967
    This HOUx4 AKHx2 sealed is very very well made limited format and fun. The drafting is also very fun.

    My last 6 online sealed phantoms are:
    3-0 x2
    2-1 x4

    Also have a 1760 limited rating which isn't terrible.

  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    edited August 8
    Ended up taking the Aetherborn deck on Sunday, only 9 people turned up so only got 3 games in.

    List
    Main Board
    4 Renegade Map
    4 Gonti's Machinations
    4 Fatal Push
    4 Gifted Aetherborn
    4 Collective Brutality
    4 Vengeful Rebel
    4 Midnight Entorage
    4 Gonti
    4 Bone Picker
    4 Distended Mindbender
    16 Swamps
    4 Sunscorched Desert

    Sidebord
    4 Trespassers Curse
    4 Grasp of Darkness
    3 Aethersphere Harvester (I thought I had 4 but it turns out the last card in the sleeve was a dark intimations I forgot to cut from when it used to be Grixis)
    2 Abundant Maw

    Went 1-1 vs burn, first game was pretty easy, second game he sideboarded into control and used Hazoret to guard his Chandra from the creatures he couldn't burn to death and chipped me out with her +1s, didn't get to do a 3rd game as we only had 5 minutes left in the round so we just id'ed, probably would have sided in the grasp of darknesses and harvesters for it if we'd had time.

    Went 1-2 vs G/R energy aggro, first game just played as normal and ground him out with value, second game I drew half my land and sat there doing nothing whilst 3 Cats and a Hydra beat me to death, third game I didn't have any of my removal spells for pummeler and it trampled over on turn 4 for 28 damage.

    Went 2-1 vs R/U/W control, first game I sat on 3 Gonti's Machinations and swung with Aetherborn until he got to 11 before burning him out with the Machinations and a Collective Brutality, second game I died to Thing in The Ice and Gearhulk finisher, third game I got an early Mindbender off and finished by countering his Gearhulk with a dissallow my Gonti had stolen and swinging through.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Bans/Unbans should be rolling around soon, it's usually around September to November. I think they should unban Punishing Fire. Its value town with stuff like Forbidden Orchid but I can't see it breaking Modern.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Obligatory #freebloodbaidelf

    Still pissed at the gitaxian probe ban, had so many jank decks get caught in the crossfire there.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Iduno wrote: »
    Obligatory #freebloodbaidelf

    Still pissed at the gitaxian probe ban, had so many jank decks get caught in the crossfire there.

    The top ban had the same effect in Legacy. I guess they were sick of Miracles but they could have just banned Counterbalance instead of nerfing a bunch of fine decks.
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,931 mod
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Bans/Unbans should be rolling around soon, it's usually around September to November. I think they should unban Punishing Fire. Its value town with stuff like Forbidden Orchid but I can't see it breaking Modern.

    Punishing Fire basically kills all weenie decks off of modern.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • IdunoIduno ...what to put here Joined: Posts: 5,128
    Its like Stoneforge Mystic getting banned for Batterskull's sins.
    “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."
    -Stephen Fry

    "I know crackheads that could sneak into a house better than an 8th century shinobi."
    -Jimmy1200
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    edited August 10
    How is Isochron Scepter not considered top tier in any format it is legal?

    Also, is using the Isochron Scepter considered a casting of a spell, activated ability, or both? Anyone know? @Preppy?
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,002 admin

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382

  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,323
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    How is Isochron Scepter not considered top tier in any format it is legal?

    Needs a deck built around it, and even then there are stronger alternatives. Modern is likely the best format for it, but that format is either too fast or has a bunch of main-deck artifact hate.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    Preppy wrote: »

    Reason I ask is because of that card that states that you can only cast 1 spell per turn. So this will make a second spell on Isochron Scepter just fizzle, right?

    What if there are 2 spells on Isochron Scepter and both of them get cast at the same time. What determines which spell gets cast or do they both cast and resolve?
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Naeras wrote: »
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    How is Isochron Scepter not considered top tier in any format it is legal?

    Needs a deck built around it, and even then there are stronger alternatives. Modern is likely the best format for it, but that format is either too fast or has a bunch of main-deck artifact hate.

    Stuff like Stony Silence is incredibly common in Modern as well because of Affinity. It also hits Lantern and the ramp from Tron and Ad Nauseum which keeps artifact hate relevant.
  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 7,951
    Pertho wrote: »
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    Bans/Unbans should be rolling around soon, it's usually around September to November. I think they should unban Punishing Fire. Its value town with stuff like Forbidden Orchid but I can't see it breaking Modern.

    Punishing Fire basically kills all weenie decks off of modern.

    It requires an investment in Forbidden Orchid and gaining points vs. weenies is all well and good but you lose points vs. everything else as on it's own a 2 mana shock isn't good. It's repeatable but also slow which Modern isn't. Then you have graveyard hate. I don't think it would be a problem.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,746
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=46741&type=card and Image.ashx?multiverseid=92&type=card
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,400
    Keep on forgetting the name of that green/red dual land that gives your opponent life and allows you to recycle punishing fire. That shit is bonkers please don't bring it back. It takes the top deck out of midrange. Bad enough having to play through value and hate without your opponent basically gaining the ability to draw a card each turn.
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,002 admin
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Preppy wrote: »

    Reason I ask is because of that card that states that you can only cast 1 spell per turn. So this will make a second spell on Isochron Scepter just fizzle, right?

    What if there are 2 spells on Isochron Scepter and both of them get cast at the same time. What determines which spell gets cast or do they both cast and resolve?

    It helps if you actually name the cards. Let's say Rule of Law is in play:
    * http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226729
    or aethersworn canonist or eidolon of rhetoric or curse of exhaustion

    Your question doesn't make sense. There is nothing in Magic that lets something get cast "at the same time". That's not how the game works. Rule of Law sets up a pretty clear rule. You can cast one spell. The end.
    BullDancer wrote: »
    Keep on forgetting the name of that green/red dual land that gives your opponent life and allows you to recycle punishing fire. That shit is bonkers please don't bring it back. It takes the top deck out of midrange. Bad enough having to play through value and hate without your opponent basically gaining the ability to draw a card each turn.

    Grove of the Burnwillows
    http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130595
    Great card.

    http://zachd.com/mvc2 : My giant archive of fighting game videos, centered around MvC2.
    "If you don't feel like killing yourself every time you lose you will never be good. Apologyman is going to be a monster someday as long as he keeps staying miserable." --Brightside6382