Magic the Gathering Thread

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  • Minerva_SCMinerva_SC Get on my level Joined: Posts: 1,684
    Why the hell do you keep calling them types. No one has called them types in 200 years.
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370670&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=46741&type=card

    These two cards together will be great in type 1.5 and type 1. Just think about the infinite mana and infinite card drawing possibilities with these two cards!!!
    that will never work in legacy tournaments, people use good cards like abrupt decay, and krosan grip. There hasnt been a good scepter deck in legacy for years. scepter decks are too slow for a real legacy tournament were everyone has tier 1 decks, and your tier 2 or 3 deck wont do much. Royal assassin is to slow for legacy when you see people throwing spells out for free with shardless bug decks, and devler decks have to much control like lighting bolts, counter spells to kill your Royal assassin, and delver only cost 1, and Royal assassin doesnt do anything to nimble mongoose. Then you have to deal with stone blade decks that get out batterskull on turn 3, and snap caster mages give them 8 swords to plowshares. Vs goblins they will kill you on turn 3 or 4, and gempalm with kill Royal assassin and then they attack with like 10 goblins with haste and have +1/+1. Death and Taxes will play all their creatures for free with vials, and death and taxes is white, so they will have hate for artifacts in their sb, and other stuff that removes other things from the game.

    You really need to play in legacy tournament in understand your ideas might not work. You are giving really bad advice, you might as well tell people to win with Gen in Sf to throw fireballs.

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=126274&type=card
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=253561&type=card
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=191592&type=card
    kill scepter for free.

    And your combo wont work anyway, scepter is a activated ability, not a triggered ability
    Post edited by AlanEdrick on
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,395
    Fuck slivers, everybody is playing them :mad:, I ran into two of them shits already....... also green is mad OP this time around, more than usual......
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    everyone can play slivers all they want, though they dont win tournaments.
    steamaugury.jpg
    tymaretthemurderking.jpg
    fleecemanelion.jpg
    ashioknightmareweaver.jpg

    ashiok could work pretty good in shardless bug decks
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,395
    Monstrous abilities are so good, there was an unreleased planeswalker or some creature that generated lots of fucking mana..... that is where the metagame is heading imo, I can't afford to play in this metagame, the future has lots of Domri and that new planeswalker :|
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370670&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=46741&type=card



    And your combo wont work anyway, scepter is a activated ability, not a triggered ability

    I'm talking about Isochron Scepter's triggered ability...
  • beesuitbeesuit Joined: Posts: 3,548
    Pretty soon there will be a 3/3 one mana, 5 colour hybrid creature with some busted ass ability on top of it. Power creep will make it happen one day lol.
  • regulateregulate Bruv of bruvs Joined: Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i just noticed that monstrous can be played at any time. that lion and witch stalker are going to break the game for green
    Never forget:
    Boel wrote: »
    phantom angel the kinda guy that eats a roll of dental floss so that he can slowly come to a shuddering climax as he pulls it out his ass

  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    Infinite mana with Isochron Scepter, Dark Ritual, and Twiddle...
  • beesuitbeesuit Joined: Posts: 3,548
    edited September 2013
    These cycles that hate on it's colour make me laugh lol
    http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/glareofheresy.html
    http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/gainsay.html
    http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/darkbetrayal.html
    http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/peakeruption.html
    http://mythicspoiler.com/ths/cards/huntthehunter.html
    Imma fuck my colour up! Reminds me of Time Spiral, Planar Chaos, Future Sight type quirkiness lol

    Just noticed, top half of the enchantment hybrid cards got that funky border going on. Bet people gonna be all over foils of those.
  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 456
    That border is because enchantments are gifts from the gods who live in nyx, which looks like the night sky. So the enchantment creatures are servants of the gods so you can glimpse nyx through them. Iirc at least.
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Infinite mana with Isochron Scepter, Dark Ritual, and Twiddle...
    i dont think you understand how legacy tournaments work. Isochron Scepter is too slow for tournaments. You might be able to win with Isochron Scepter in casual, but when in comes to tournaments that idea is really bad. And no one has played Isochron Scepter in like 10 years, cause no one wants to deal with, spell pierce, force of will, thought seize, inquisition of kozilek, daze, pithing needle, abrupt decay, disenchant, phyrexian revoker, krosan grip, and wipe away
    Post edited by AlanEdrick on
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    BullDancer wrote: »
    Monstrous abilities are so good, there was an unreleased planeswalker or some creature that generated lots of fucking mana..... that is where the metagame is heading imo, I can't afford to play in this metagame, the future has lots of Domri and that new planeswalker :|
    standard has always been expensive, were have you been for the last 20 years? You always have to buy a new deck every rotation, I think thats why people are playing mod now, since mod is never going to have a rotation and you dont have to buy duel lands
  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 21,915 mod
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    And no one has played Isochron Scepter in like 10 years, cause no one wants to deal with, spell pierce, force of will, thought seize, inquisition of kozilek, daze, pithing needle, abrupt decay, disenchant, phyrexian revoker, krosan grip, and wipe away

    Or the shit that cascades into all of that.:lol:

    AlanEdrick: If you wanna survive this thread, you're gonna have to learn how to ignore Jion.
    Ronin Chaos on Pertho:

    "Oh, Pertho. You complete me."
    jimmy1200 wrote: »
    pertho attacked me first, saying i get all my life tips from 106th and park.
  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 456
    Anger of the gods looks super good.

    I am also excited about the ug seedborn muse, but that's because of commander.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    edited September 2013
    Here is some fearless speculation on the upcoming rotation to hopefully spur discussion:

    * Azorius-based control in general and Sphinx's Revelation in particular are the big winners upon rotation. The only relevant things that they lose are bad match-ups! Now only Voice of Resurgence stands to defend the good, creature-playing MtG masses against the evil hordes of spell-based control.
    * Selesnya looks strong, with a strong curve and access to powerful cards like Advent of the Wurm and Trostani. It also has access to Voice of Resurgence. It has no dual in Theros, though.
    * Red-based aggro survives rotation, with Firedrinker Satyr replacing Stromkirk Noble and Purphoros replacing Hellrider. Legion Loyalist looks strong against the token-heavy Selesnya deck. Both green and white can act as splashes. If three-color decks remain prevalent Burning Earth is also an option for red.
    * Big red seems like it'll be a thing. Boros Reckoner, Purphoros, Mizzium Mortars, Stormbreath Dragon and Magma Jet look like a solid backbone. Just like in aggro, a white splash is possible for stuff like Warleader's Helix, Assemble the Legion and the new Elspeth. A green splash is also possible for Domri, Xenagos and Ruric Thar (gotta hate on dat Azorius!).
    * Junk loses a lot of tools. It has replacement tools, but the mana is a lot worse and the reanimation component is a lot slower. Angel of Serenity is still strong. Whip of Erebos and Rescue from the Underworld can replace Unburial Rites. Maybe Deadbridge Chant can work.
    * Maaaaaaaybe Boros Battalion Aggro will be a thing. It has access to Boros Charm against Supreme Verdict, and Frontline Medic against Sphinx's Revelation.

    * Golgari Control is dead. Without Mutilate to support it Desecration Demon is a lot worse. Without Thragtusk it's a lot harder to not die. Without Garruk there is no good way to refill the hand.
    * Jund is dead as it currently exists. It loses Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Olivia and Bonfire with no good replacements so far. Jund is nearly always a viable color combination so maybe there's a Jund deck in the future, but it'll be a different beast from the one we have right now.
    * Hexproof seems to be relegated to a tier 2 strategy at best. Witchstalker and Scout are just not as good as Geist and Stalker. Good riddance, if you ask me. Hexproof is probably my fourth most hated aspect of the game**.
    * Tempo in general seems dead. No Geist, no game.
    * I have no idea if Aristocrats can survive. Cartel Aristocrat and Xantid Necromancer are still around, but Lingering Souls, Doomed Traveler and Tragic Slip are gone. I'll say that it's probably dead, but maybe not. If it survives it'll probably be in B/W colors.

    ** My most hated aspects of the game are mana-screw, Storm mechanic, Miracle mechanic, Hexproof and the card "Show and Tell".
    Post edited by ukyo_rulz on
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    Jion is a super noob, he doesnt understand legacy at all. The thing is with legacy

    Legacy does not care about new players. Lets say you just started magic, you've been playing for a week or so. Then you goto a legacy tournament and get destroyed on turn 2 or 3.

    Legacy cost money. Goblins, Elf's, Death and taxes, Mud. Are most likely the cheapest decks to make that can win.

    100% of the time, every deck that wins a legacy tournament is a net deck.

    Just cause you can beat some of your friends at magic with a casual deck does not mean you are going to win at legacy.

    Legacy does not care about how good you think you are. What I mean by this is, just cause you think you have some good ideas doesn't mean they are going to work.

    Legacy decks are some of the most powerful decks in mtg, they can win turn 2 or turn 3. If you don't know the meta and just think you are going to enter a tournament and wing it, most likely you will lose to a super powered deck.

    As for standard, Jund is going to die, and everyone is going to play blue white control and red green aggro
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Legacy cost money. Goblins, Elf's, Death and taxes, Mud. Are most likely the cheapest decks to make that can win.

    I remember when Dredge was a budget deck... but now you need LED for it. Affinity was the budget deck de jour for a while, but the Legend rule update upped the cost of Mox Opal and the Modern format upped the cost of Ravager. Even Goblins and Death and Taxes needs Wasteland and Elves needs Cradle. MUD seems doable without completely breaking the bank, but it's not exactly what I would call a budget deck.

    Burn is probably the cheapest deck that can win a big event. I think it took down two consecutive SCG events earlier this year.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    edited September 2013
    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370592&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370635&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370676&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370625&type=card

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=370586&type=card

    You know what I just realized besides the mana symbols of course. After looking at these cards again I realized that those are five planeswalkers holding the staves. you know the five.

    EDIT: Here's the bearer of the staff of the death magus:

    lilianas-carress.jpg

    Also what's the new legend rule regarding Mox Opal, etc? I haven't played type 1.5 in a while and looking to make a stasis/shared fate deck. Yes, that means your own deck will give me the win.
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Legacy cost money. Goblins, Elf's, Death and taxes, Mud. Are most likely the cheapest decks to make that can win.

    I remember when Dredge was a budget deck... but now you need LED for it. Affinity was the budget deck de jour for a while, but the Legend rule update upped the cost of Mox Opal and the Modern format upped the cost of Ravager. Even Goblins and Death and Taxes needs Wasteland and Elves needs Cradle. MUD seems doable without completely breaking the bank, but it's not exactly what I would call a budget deck.

    Burn is probably the cheapest deck that can win a big event. I think it took down two consecutive SCG events earlier this year.
    Affinity and Dredge died once people brought in a lot of hate. Burn is ok, until someone brings leyline's and kills your deck.

    Jion is like a MvC2 noob, you know those noobs that think they can beat Sent/Storm teams with Sakura, Bison, Gief. No matter how many times you tell noobs that there are tiers, their just like I can use noob tactics and think I can beat them

    angerofthegods.jpg
    mistcutterhydra.jpg

    man red green in standard keeps getting better
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    Anyone going to the prerelease? Also, what about Land Tax/Lands' Edge with Goblin Charbelcher?
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    Goblin Charbelcher has a hard time winning, cause there is a lot of artifact hate, and sb cards can kill Goblin Charbelcher decks. Its a so-so deck. You are better of playing Ant-storm decks. No one uses land tax in legacy cause its too slow. Legacy storm is just a lot better, cause you can with tendrils of agony or empty the warrens on turn 2 or 3

    Land tax is meh, when you can use lions eye diamond, lotus petal, chrome mox, ancient tomb, city of traitors, or aether vial
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
  • regulateregulate Bruv of bruvs Joined: Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Full theros spoiler is out
    Never forget:
    Boel wrote: »
    phantom angel the kinda guy that eats a roll of dental floss so that he can slowly come to a shuddering climax as he pulls it out his ass

  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    nice cant wait to buy a booster box. This set is going to be enchantment heavy, so im sure a lot of people are going to SB a lot of hate. Ya im just going to ignore Jion cause hes the obviously the best mtg player, he knows how to win, he knows more then anyone. Even people who've been playing legacy for more then 5 years and back then stomping people with worldgorger dragon decks on turn 2 every game
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    Back in 1995 i used Stasis decks and burn decks
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    and now those decks are dead good for you. Did you ever win a legacy tournament without noobs? Man I miss when MTG was on ESPN2

  • beesuitbeesuit Joined: Posts: 3,548
    Shit yo, there's more to the game than just legacy, legacy, legacy.

    Also MTG is a horrible spectator sport. Even if you know the rules of the game, have fun following what's going on if you don't know all the cards off by heart. They're been addressing it somewhat in the recent world tournament vids by showing you and explaining the cards, but you're still ain't gonna draw in any new blood by showing them an MTG video lol
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    I know more about standard more then any format, playing it since 94. Its a really bad format, the format comes down to only maybe 2 tier 1 decks that dominant the format. Back then tinker decks destroyed every deck, before that necro, till necro was banned, thats why stasis won worlds that year. standard players always play the same tier 1 decks that win the same tournaments every week. Like Blue/Green Maddness and psychatog decks ran over every deck at the time. Then came even more boring decks like affinity, affinity made so many people quit magic it was even funny. Mtg had to ban a lot of stuff in affinity, slide won worlds that year. Slide and affinity were the only decks that won 90% of tournaments. Just like how blue green madness and togg won 99% of tournaments. I quit standard after tooth and nail became the best deck

    And standard still hasnt changed much tier 1 decks still dominant standard. Jund has been winning like every mayor tournament and Red green midrange.
    Standard is a really slow format now taking like 10-12 turns to win a fucking game.

    Id rather play modern were, Blue/white, pod, robots, the rock, and jund. modern and legacy have a lot more decks that win.

    Ive talking to my friends EDH, and why anyone would play that format is beyond me. You can only use 1 card of a type? Fuck that, that sounds like noobish format, and fuck shuffling that many cards. I think people play EDH cause they cant win at any other format
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,395
    Xenagos is going to run train in this format......

    That nigga is going to be mad expensive......

    I don't focus on what goes on in tournaments lol..... I play casuals with friends and other randoms(FNM) because its a game that most people my age or older(21+) play.... surprisingly Yugioh is a more balanced card and cheaper game than MTG but nobody plays it, so I'm just outback......
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    ive played standard since 94 and I hate the format, extended was pretty fun back then, old school Rock was the shit. Ya I would never play EDH, magic was meant to be played with 4 of the same card not just 1 copy of a card, fuck that. Id rather play pauper magic, were you can only use commons, no rare, no un-commons, just commons. And every format has net decks and banned cards, and people who dont like legacy, have never played legacy.

    Standards main problem is hardly any decks can beat tier 1 decks, were in legacy decks like goblins, elfs, post ramp, merfolk, miracles, mavrick, death and taxes, mud, and painter can win tournaments, and they arent tier 1

    I also used to play casuals, till I kept beating everyone, and everyone would keep teaming up on me. casuals has so many sore losers its not even funny, they always complain my decks are to powerful. Bunch of scrubs.

    modern is fun some times, and pretty cheap if you dont want to buy duel lands, mostly the mana base is the new fetch lands and shock lands. The only thing that bugs be about mod, is they banned wild nacatl, yet I can use 4 delvers, and 4 tarmogoyfs, makes perfect sense
    Post edited by AlanEdrick on
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    BullDancer wrote: »
    Xenagos is going to run train in this format......

    That nigga is going to be mad expensive......

    I don't focus on what goes on in tournaments lol..... I play casuals with friends and other randoms(FNM) because its a game that most people my age or older(21+) play.... surprisingly Yugioh is a more balanced card and cheaper game than MTG but nobody plays it, so I'm just outback......
    how can you say its more balanced if you dont even play in mtg tournaments?
  • AlanEdrickAlanEdrick Joined: Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2013
    beesuit wrote: »
    Shit yo, there's more to the game than just legacy, legacy, legacy.

    Also MTG is a horrible spectator sport. Even if you know the rules of the game, have fun following what's going on if you don't know all the cards off by heart. They're been addressing it somewhat in the recent world tournament vids by showing you and explaining the cards, but you're still ain't gonna draw in any new blood by showing them an MTG video lol
    most people who play tournaments already know whats going on, since most the decks that win are posted on the net aka netdecks

  • beesuitbeesuit Joined: Posts: 3,548
    That triple post, you obviously know how to use the edit button man lol

    EDH/Commander is more of a multiplayer casual format than anything imo. Not everyone wants to play hardcore competitive magic (especially given the massive pay wall before you can put together anything that's half decent) and this offers a nice alternative to that crowd. The fun of the format is in the multiplayer interactions and deck building around the given limitations (only singles, choosing a commander and limiting yourself to your commander colour). Hunting 4 copies of whatever chase mythic, the flavour of month happens to be isn't exactly everyone's idea of fun either.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    beesuit wrote: »
    Shit yo, there's more to the game than just legacy, legacy, legacy.

    Also MTG is a horrible spectator sport. Even if you know the rules of the game, have fun following what's going on if you don't know all the cards off by heart. They're been addressing it somewhat in the recent world tournament vids by showing you and explaining the cards, but you're still ain't gonna draw in any new blood by showing them an MTG video lol
    most people who play tournaments already know whats going on, since most the decks that win are posted on the net aka netdecks
    And that's the thing. These videos only cater to and are accessible to a niche within a niche, specific hardcore crowd. There's a reason why it ain't on ESPN anymore, no one else knows what the hell is going on. Stuff like Poker at least you see big amounts of money being exchanged and wagered around, same with fighting games and lifebars. Magic? Cards get tapped, put on the table and somehow one guy loses and the other wins.
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,395
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    BullDancer wrote: »
    Xenagos is going to run train in this format......

    That nigga is going to be mad expensive......

    I don't focus on what goes on in tournaments lol..... I play casuals with friends and other randoms(FNM) because its a game that most people my age or older(21+) play.... surprisingly Yugioh is a more balanced card and cheaper game than MTG but nobody plays it, so I'm just outback......
    how can you say its more balanced if you dont even play in mtg tournaments?

    I do watch and pay attention to tournaments, there just a little bit more variety in top level play, but not much....

    This current format, around 7 different decks do equally as well....
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    A flood of responses incoming yo:
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Also what's the new legend rule regarding Mox Opal, etc? I haven't played type 1.5 in a while and looking to make a stasis/shared fate deck. Yes, that means your own deck will give me the win.

    Before: with one Mox Opal in play, playing a second one would kill them both. This applies whether you or your opponent has the current Mox Opal. This means that when a Mox Opal is in play on the other side any Opals you draw turn into Strip Mines and when you have one in play and draw another it's useless unless you can sac the other one via Arcbound Ravager or something.

    Now: legend rule only applies to your own stuff, so you and your opponent can each have a Mox Opal. If you have one and you play another, you choose one of them to keep and kill the other. This means that if you draw an extra Mox Opal it can still act kinda like a Lotus Petal. Just tap one for mana, play the other and put the tapped Mox in the graveyard.
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Anyone going to the prerelease? Also, what about Land Tax/Lands' Edge with Goblin Charbelcher?

    Not going to the prerelease because I am heading out to Tokyo Game Show. Goblin Charbelcher decks are the same as ever. They play no lands and try to win on the first turn. Last I heard Belcher was up to 80%+ turn one combo when goldfishing, but it gets real iffy when the opponent is actively disrupting you. Also most of the time you need to settle for making 12 or 16 goblins on turn one instead of just killing the opponent with a big Belch.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Affinity and Dredge died once people brought in a lot of hate. Burn is ok, until someone brings leyline's and kills your deck.

    That's really the nature of Legacy. Budget decks are just as powerful as the top tiers, and in some cases even more powerful, but they are all very vulnerable to hate. It's not hopeless, though. Just frustrating. Sometimes the opponent doesn't draw Leyline of the Void, and you get to make a 13/13 troll plus five 2/2 zombie tokens on turn two. Sometimes Leyline gets into play on turn zero and you get two Goblin Guides plus Flame Rifts and Keldon Marauders.

    The more realistic win scenario is that no one plays Affinity/Burn/Dredge for a while and people neglect to pack hate for them, until suddenly there are four Dredge decks in top 8 and people reach for their Leylines, sending the budget decks into hibernation once more.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    No one uses land tax in legacy cause its too slow. Legacy storm is just a lot better, cause you can with tendrils of agony or empty the warrens on turn 2 or 3

    There is a variant of Counter-Top that uses the Land Tax/Scroll Rack card advantage engine. It has a really good match-up against storm decks, like all Counter-Top decks. Also does pretty well against mid-range stuff like BUG Cascade and Jund. So-so against aggro. It's pretty bad against the more standard Miracle builds of Counter-Top, though. At least that's how I've seen games with the deck play out.
    beesuit wrote: »
    Shit yo, there's more to the game than just legacy, legacy, legacy.

    Legacy is pretty big right now, but it's slowly dying. Card availability issues due to price and the reserved list are limiting the growth of the format.

    I think Legacy might survive for a couple more years, but the release of Modern Masters plus the reprint of the Shock Lands has ignited interest in Modern (probably the biggest competitor to Legacy). Still not enough to dethrone Legacy as the eternal format of choice, but when Fetches are reprinted Standard people will suddenly find themselves able to play Modern but not Legacy (no duals, wastes, FoW, etc). When that happens Legacy might find itself in the same position that Vintage is in right now.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    I know more about standard more then any format, playing it since 94. Its a really bad format, the format comes down to only maybe 2 tier 1 decks that dominant the format.

    Man, you really chose a terrible time to make this statement. Standard has been a wide-open format for months. Every time the format looks solved, something else comes around to be the new king. Just off the top of my head:

    * Naya midrange looked pretty good early on
    * Then Sphinx's Revelation decks were unbeatable
    * Then Naya Blitz was top dog
    * Then R/g aggro was unbeatable
    * Then Junk Rites was king of the hill for a while
    * Then Bant Hexproof was king
    * Then Naya midrange was at the top of the heap
    * Then all of a sudden Jund was king
    * Then Kibler's RG aggro beat Jund for the top spot.

    Even by late August, Delver decks and Junk Token decks were making top 8 at a GP. I do agree with your thoughts on Standard for the most part, just not right now. RtR is a multicolor block and those blocks tend to produce standard environments that are more open than usual. Standard should remain very playable for the next year, but once RtR rotates I fully expect it to get back to business as usual.

    My thoughts on EDH: it looks like a ramp-based format where everyone just ramps into derpy cards. If I played it, I would probably throw every Geddon variant into a deck and see what happens.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • fizzywoemacfizzywoemac Team Pwendines Joined: Posts: 403
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Ive talking to my friends EDH, and why anyone would play that format is beyond me. You can only use 1 card of a type? Fuck that, that sounds like noobish format, and fuck shuffling that many cards. I think people play EDH cause they cant win at any other format

    Maybe they play it cause its fun?? Seriously, i could easily get a combo elves deck and stomp every person i play on turn 2 forever but where the fuck is the fun in that?? EDH is a casual format that encourages creative deckbuilding, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Super ultra vintage level tournament worthy games in EDH?? No, but its fun! Im sorry bro, but you just gotta unclench your colon and smoke a joint lol
    Counterpicking Sagat with Honda since forever
  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    and now those decks are dead good for you. Did you ever win a legacy tournament without noobs? Man I miss when MTG was on ESPN2

    Burn isn't dead, and Stasis used to be a solid tier 1/tier 2 deck. I don't know why you'd assume he was talking about Legacy anyway, since Legacy didn't exist as a competitive format in 1995. It was called type 1.5, and nobody played it outside of small store tournaments.
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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    ukyo_rulz wrote: »
    A flood of responses incoming yo:
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Also what's the new legend rule regarding Mox Opal, etc? I haven't played type 1.5 in a while and looking to make a stasis/shared fate deck. Yes, that means your own deck will give me the win.

    Before: with one Mox Opal in play, playing a second one would kill them both. This applies whether you or your opponent has the current Mox Opal. This means that when a Mox Opal is in play on the other side any Opals you draw turn into Strip Mines and when you have one in play and draw another it's useless unless you can sac the other one via Arcbound Ravager or something.

    Now: legend rule only applies to your own stuff, so you and your opponent can each have a Mox Opal. If you have one and you play another, you choose one of them to keep and kill the other. This means that if you draw an extra Mox Opal it can still act kinda like a Lotus Petal. Just tap one for mana, play the other and put the tapped Mox in the graveyard.
    Jion_Wansu wrote: »
    Anyone going to the prerelease? Also, what about Land Tax/Lands' Edge with Goblin Charbelcher?

    Not going to the prerelease because I am heading out to Tokyo Game Show. Goblin Charbelcher decks are the same as ever. They play no lands and try to win on the first turn. Last I heard Belcher was up to 80%+ turn one combo when goldfishing, but it gets real iffy when the opponent is actively disrupting you. Also most of the time you need to settle for making 12 or 16 goblins on turn one instead of just killing the opponent with a big Belch.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    Affinity and Dredge died once people brought in a lot of hate. Burn is ok, until someone brings leyline's and kills your deck.

    That's really the nature of Legacy. Budget decks are just as powerful as the top tiers, and in some cases even more powerful, but they are all very vulnerable to hate. It's not hopeless, though. Just frustrating. Sometimes the opponent doesn't draw Leyline of the Void, and you get to make a 13/13 troll plus five 2/2 zombie tokens on turn two. Sometimes Leyline gets into play on turn zero and you get two Goblin Guides plus Flame Rifts and Keldon Marauders.

    The more realistic win scenario is that no one plays Affinity/Burn/Dredge for a while and people neglect to pack hate for them, until suddenly there are four Dredge decks in top 8 and people reach for their Leylines, sending the budget decks into hibernation once more.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    No one uses land tax in legacy cause its too slow. Legacy storm is just a lot better, cause you can with tendrils of agony or empty the warrens on turn 2 or 3

    There is a variant of Counter-Top that uses the Land Tax/Scroll Rack card advantage engine. It has a really good match-up against storm decks, like all Counter-Top decks. Also does pretty well against mid-range stuff like BUG Cascade and Jund. So-so against aggro. It's pretty bad against the more standard Miracle builds of Counter-Top, though. At least that's how I've seen games with the deck play out.
    beesuit wrote: »
    Shit yo, there's more to the game than just legacy, legacy, legacy.

    Legacy is pretty big right now, but it's slowly dying. Card availability issues due to price and the reserved list are limiting the growth of the format.

    I think Legacy might survive for a couple more years, but the release of Modern Masters plus the reprint of the Shock Lands has ignited interest in Modern (probably the biggest competitor to Legacy). Still not enough to dethrone Legacy as the eternal format of choice, but when Fetches are reprinted Standard people will suddenly find themselves able to play Modern but not Legacy (no duals, wastes, FoW, etc). When that happens Legacy might find itself in the same position that Vintage is in right now.
    AlanEdrick wrote: »
    I know more about standard more then any format, playing it since 94. Its a really bad format, the format comes down to only maybe 2 tier 1 decks that dominant the format.

    Man, you really chose a terrible time to make this statement. Standard has been a wide-open format for months. Every time the format looks solved, something else comes around to be the new king. Just off the top of my head:

    * Naya midrange looked pretty good early on
    * Then Sphinx's Revelation decks were unbeatable
    * Then Naya Blitz was top dog
    * Then R/g aggro was unbeatable
    * Then Junk Rites was king of the hill for a while
    * Then Bant Hexproof was king
    * Then Naya midrange was at the top of the heap
    * Then all of a sudden Jund was king
    * Then Kibler's RG aggro beat Jund for the top spot.

    Even by late August, Delver decks and Junk Token decks were making top 8 at a GP. I do agree with your thoughts on Standard for the most part, just not right now. RtR is a multicolor block and those blocks tend to produce standard environments that are more open than usual. Standard should remain very playable for the next year, but once RtR rotates I fully expect it to get back to business as usual.

    My thoughts on EDH: it looks like a ramp-based format where everyone just ramps into derpy cards. If I played it, I would probably throw every Geddon variant into a deck and see what happens.

    Seems like Type 1.5/Legacy is like ST and Type 2/Standard is the latest version of a Street Fighter game, in this case SSFIVAE and Type 1/Vintage is like SF2WW ans such.

    So basically the legend rule went back to the old legend rule when Legends came out. Same thing! Also, "split second" are like interrupt cards. Why not just bring back the interrupt mechanic?
  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 456
    Split second is not like interrupt. Interrupts could be cast while other interrupts were on the stack. Split second prevents things from being put on the stack period.

    I am surprised at the edh hate. In my experience it is definitely one of the most loved formats. I enjoy it a lot. Being limited to only one copy of a card isn't that big of deal when you have access to some of the most powerful tutor effects. I often find myself having to cut cards whenever I build a new edh deck.

    I am not really big into standard at the moment. My only standard deck is a more for fun jund reanimator deck the use Immortal servitude to grab a bunch of three drops and swing for high amounts of damage. I will try and build an American control deck that focuses on using assemble and the new red God. It Will be hard with the mana base being hit so hard post rotation. But it will mostly be for fun.

    I am working on getting into modern though. I have a play set or two of most shocks and I am working on getting the enemy fetches. I have a play set of scaling tarns and verdant catacombs, two misty's with a third on the way, then one each of the other two. I've also managed to get a hold of some filter lands, though I don't know how much play they see in modern.
  • CyntalanCyntalan Joined: Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jumped back in this recently after a... 13 year hiatus? Last set I saw was Visions. Went to that sealed deck promotional tourney that happened earlier this month that was free. Figure I'll be around a bit, built a dream White weenie deck for Standard, but missing a lot of shit in it yet, so that's gonna remain a dream for some time (especially considering the costs of the 2 Archangel of Thunes and 4 Boros Reckoners I want for it...).

    Seems quite likely, though that Sealed Deck tournies are the only ones I'd get into for a while, though. Modern goes back to 8th, right?
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  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 456
    Yeah, 8th and up with a ban list.
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I am working on getting into modern though. I have a play set or two of most shocks and I am working on getting the enemy fetches. I have a play set of scaling tarns and verdant catacombs, two misty's with a third on the way, then one each of the other two. I've also managed to get a hold of some filter lands, though I don't know how much play they see in modern.

    This is a copy-pasta of a post I wrote on another forum:

    WotC is pretty much 99.99% guaranteed to reprint all the fetches. Modern currently has only enemy colored fetches which is weird. They would want to complete that cycle somehow.

    WotC probably wouldn't want Standard to be full of goodstuff decks that have perfect mana for an entire year, but they do want players to embrace Modern as a format. This is why IMHO the most logical place to reprint fetches is M15. That would leave players with perfect mana-fixing in Standard, but only for a few months. This will prevent perfect mana from dominating Standard for too long. Afterwards, when the shocks rotate players will find themselves in possession of functional modern mana bases. At that point it would only be logical for them to keep getting value out of their investment by moving to modern.

    Of course WotC might choose to wait longer to reprint fetches but if they do that players might sell off their shocks after RtR rotates, and the price of shocks might rise again. Then when fetches come out people still won't play modern because they don't want to play high prices for shocks, which is the same problem as right now but in reverse.

    This is all speculation on my end of course, but it's not hard to see that:

    1. WotC will reprint fetches at some point
    2. The most logical place to do it is in M15

    IMHO you should hold off on significant investment in fetches until the inevitable reprint. Buy what you need, but you wouldn't want to be like the guy who bought $90 Thoughtseize before Theros was spoiled and the market for it crashed.
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  • RisingChurchRisingChurch Bass Bass Wub Wub Wub Joined: Posts: 456
    My friend and I don't see wotc printing fetches in standard soon. It's possible, but we think that it's more likely they some will be reprinted in a special set like the new commander sets.

    Luckily I was investing in the fetches before the spike, not that they were cheap (25 to 30 for tarn/misty violated to the 50 plus it is more). I also traded standard stuff for them mostly.
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,732
    edited September 2013
    Screw it. WotC should have done a 20th anniversary edition where the "reserve list" is temporarily suspended. You get the idea...

    Or the 20th anniversary edition should have had all of the cards from the following sets:

    Beta, Arabian Nights, The Dark, Legends, and Antiquities with all new artwork and the new card design, and, wait for it... all cards tournament legal in all formats but use the banned/restricted list that's used for Vintage.

    Maybe they can do this for the 25th anniversary edition...
  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 4,476
    edited September 2013
    My friend and I don't see wotc printing fetches in standard soon. It's possible, but we think that it's more likely they some will be reprinted in a special set like the new commander sets.

    They would have to be reprinted in standard to be modern legal. WotC wants all fetch lands to be playable in the modern format, not just enemy color ones. To make that happen they need to make onslaught fetches legal in Standard first. That's why Scavenging Ooze was in M14. It was in a commander set so it was not legal to play in modern. They wanted it to be legal in modern so they had to make it legal in Standard.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • ETEP1ETEP1 From The Bay to LA Joined: Posts: 1,515
    I was talking with some guys at the Theros pre-release tonight about the fetch-lands being reprinted. Everybody is fairly convinced that down the line (maybe 5 years or so) there will be a reprint. Its good for the game. Places cards back into circulation, be it at a modest circulation.

    My thoughts on Theros after the pre-release (forgive me, I haven't slept and its 7:12am):

    The Theros block as a whole is a LOT better than the community has been giving it credit for. It is very fast and mana fixing is a-plenty in limited.

    Bestow is for real! What I thought would be a slow, somewhat "blah", mechanic turned out to be anything but. The slight incremental edge you give your creatures over an opponent with a bestowed creature is insane. Even after spot removal, the ability to maintain board presence with a creature/enchantment that is a decent body (usually 2/2) with an ability like intimidate or scry x, creates VERY fast games.

    Heroic is for real! I thought Heroic would be laughable, but with all of the battle tricks available at common and uncommon slots, Heroic creatures are surprisingly deadly and problematic! I can't tell you the number of times I saw a 1/1 swing, have a cantrip resolve (giving + 0/ +2 for example), putting a +1/1 counter on said creature, and then resolving a bestowed enchantment the next turn, AGAIN triggering Heroic (adding another +1/+1 counter) and then the buff from the creature. If left unchecked things can get out of hand fast.

    Monstrosity is amazingly fun and versatile. Monstrosity allows players to get so much value out of cards, you have to play with it to believe it. It isn't as devastating as you would think (but like anything; it can be) but it adds an honest risk/reward factor to tapping out to try and get your guy huge. What I do like about the mechanic is that you are often rewarded for achieving monstrosity, enlarging your creature and changing the board state (be it by making everybody sacrifice lands, tapping down opposing creatures, etc). It seems like a better "scavenge" function.

    Devotion seemed...kinda meh in limited. It could be that we weren't utilizing the mechanic properly, but in all the games I didn't hear people rave about Devotion too much. I found cards like Abhorrent Overlord to be surprisingly effective, even when cast at its 2 Devotion; the Harpies were amazingly effective chump blockers that allowed me to hold the board and swing the momentum in my favor.

    Theros is a strange block; it goes against everything we've ever been taught in magic: don't use enchantments because your creatures get 2-for-1'ed, "cantrip" mechanics like Heroic are a worthless way to burn card advantage, and tapping out during your own turn is often a surefire way to sign your own death certificate. But in the land of Theros...it works.

    As for my own personal night! I wasn't very successful: I wen't 1-3 overall with all but 1 match going 3 games. Often times I couldn't get over the hump, and maybe once got truly mana screwed. My deck was good, I just got some bad breaks and could probably have made some smarter decisions. I had my own stormbreath dragon stolen from me with a nighthowler attached (putting it up to a 12/12) to swing at me for lethal with an army of red creatures . Another game my opponent was on a one turn clock; he then proceeded to plop an aqueous form on a hulky favored hoplite before giving him some cantrips to swing at me for lethal damage and win. Those stories were common place tonight. It was a lot of fun.

    I got some good cards. Stormbreath Dragon, Foil G/U Scry land, and some others. Well, just had to say that Theros was a lot of fun and hopefully I can go get some drafts in soon.
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  • regulateregulate Bruv of bruvs Joined: Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Just finished my theros prerelease. Went 2-2. Other than bad mana fixing, G/R is sick. U/W is pretty neat with all the counters and what not. Standard looks like its gonna be fun again. Bestow is nice, didnt see much heroic at all. monstrosity has its moments, but i think bestow and scry are the winning mechanics. scrylands are hella useful. people dont sleep on savage summoning....
    Never forget:
    Boel wrote: »
    phantom angel the kinda guy that eats a roll of dental floss so that he can slowly come to a shuddering climax as he pulls it out his ass

  • PreppyPreppy act like you're used to it Joined: Posts: 14,001 admin
    edited September 2013
    Did a day of pre-release for a friend's bday and went 4-0 and 4-0. I found I loved Burnished Hart, Underworld Cereberus, Sea God's Revenge, and Read The Bones a lot. That white weapon (kill creature that dealt damage) also is brutal to play around.

    edit: spear of heliod. He definitely had me stalled with it, but he should have kept stalling until he had enough to keep it open: instead he would cast spells, letting me get through. Spear is frightening. =]

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  • beesuitbeesuit Joined: Posts: 3,548
    Read the bones is pretty badass. Digging four deep for two cards? Yes-fucking-please!