Advice to all new Skullgirls (or any game for that matter) players from a professional gamer

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  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    Arcade lyfe.

    Just get a character and go ham.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,553 mod
    Vulpes wrote: »
    Fuck, why does this startpost have 18 Likes. Is there some sarcasm train going on that's completely lost on me?

    It's a moderator that's here since the site exists and who seems to have been someone in the fgc at some point, so it's to be expected that there's some asslicking incoming.

    Or maybe because what Dan posted makes alot of sense.

    Also, it's called respect and seeing that you've got more than your fair share of flagged and trollbait posts for someone who's account is barely a month old, I suggest you learn it.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    edited August 2013
    Okay, okay, stop for a second. We've got a lot of new people in this thread. A lot of new players. That's awesome. Some of these people are genuinely here to learn, and some of these people are just being assholes and aren't being helpful. The negative attitudes need to stop right now. If you have a criticism of Dan's post, tell us why without simply telling us he's wrong or going in on his credibility when you've only been here less than a month yourself.

    I'll tell you right now that Dan is a great MvC2 player. He's also got a really sick Parasoul. It's worth giving whatever he says an honest read. If you disagree, fine. Just make your criticisms more constructive. Say why he's wrong instead of just telling him he's wrong. Mindless bitching does nothing for us to grow as players.

    In short, if it helps the community -- say it. Otherwise keep your yaps shut, okay? :tup:
    Dude wrote: »
    The fastest way to get good at these games is to play against real people. If you are going to spend a significant amount of time in training, at least do it with purpose (pick a specific BnB to practice, practice doing special inputs from both directions, or use the record function to try defending against stuff you saw in vs.). But the idea that you need to "spend HOURS perfecting your character in training" before you go online is just not true. Go online, find someone around your skill level, and level up with them.
    I personally don't advocate online play (though Skullgirls netcode is excellent) unless you simply have no players in your area. If you have locals, take advantage of them before going online. Whatever you do, the most important part is finding someone to practice with that is at your skill level, or slightly higher. You can learn a lot from expert players, however it can also be detrimental. Unless you have an insane drive to better yourself, constantly losing to a pro without showing many results is like beating your head into a wall and wondering why you haven't made a dent yet. The best thing to do is to play a few matches (enough for them to get a feel for you), and then sit down with these players and ask them what you're doing right, but more importantly what you need to be working on. I'm not a great player by most means, but I am one of the better players in my scene. There's a player who has been struggling lately, and I sat down with him the other day and worked with him to practice his mixups, assists he should be using for the characters he plays, and general strategies. Something clicked in his head, and within a few hours' practice I'm now having a much harder time beating him.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype. Huh, I think I just solved the problem with the entire community." -- Mike Z on the FGC

  • AsteriskBlueAsteriskBlue Joined: Posts: 756
    What Blufang says is the truth. You gotta take time and make sure you like your characters (and make sure you like the game) before hitting the danger room and trying reach a high level. And you do this by playing.
    It's nice to meet you, too.
  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    Dude wrote: »
    The fastest way to get good at these games is to play against real people. If you are going to spend a significant amount of time in training, at least do it with purpose (pick a specific BnB to practice, practice doing special inputs from both directions, or use the record function to try defending against stuff you saw in vs.). But the idea that you need to "spend HOURS perfecting your character in training" before you go online is just not true. Go online, find someone around your skill level, and level up with them.
    I personally don't advocate online play (though Skullgirls netcode is excellent) unless you simply have no players in your area. If you have locals, take advantage of them before going online. Whatever you do, the most important part is finding someone to practice with that is at your skill level, or slightly higher. You can learn a lot from expert players, however it can also be detrimental. Unless you have an insane drive to better yourself, constantly losing to a pro without showing many results is like beating your head into a wall and wondering why you haven't made a dent yet. The best thing to do is to play a few matches (enough for them to get a feel for you), and then sit down with these players and ask them what you're doing right, but more importantly what you need to be working on. I'm not a great player by most means, but I am one of the better players in my scene. There's a player who has been struggling lately, and I sat down with him the other day and worked with him to practice his mixups, assists he should be using for the characters he plays, and general strategies. Something clicked in his head, and within a few hours' practice I'm now having a much harder time beating him.

    Of course offline is ideal. I didn't mean to imply that online is better than local, I just meant that playing against humans in general is more beneficial for new players than training mode. Training mode is only helpful if you have specific things you know you want to work on, and outside of basic BnBs and general execution a new player has no way of knowing what those are (and practicing those basics for 2-3 hours a day will be no more useful than half an hour a day when it comes to learning these games). It takes real match experience to figure out what you need to work on, and real match experience is a better version of MOST practice regimens anyway.

    I do understand where you're coming from when you mention playing people that are significantly better than yourself, but I think part of this whole debate is that if all beginners just spend their time in training mode until they're "good enough", then there won't be beginner to intermediate players online to level up with in the first place.

    One final thought. You are a big advocate of going to tourneys. Some common sentiments with this are usually "it doesn't matter if you're not good, just go have fun", "nobody wins their first tourney", "you'll only get better by going to tourneys/locals in the first place", etc... I don't see a difference between these sentiments and similar sentiments in regards to online or local casual play.
  • dstlndstln Joined: Posts: 302
    Playing in training mode by yourself isn't fun, you can't reasonably tell newbies to sit in there. The best way is to 1. have a good tutorial system, 2. have good matchmaking and 3. teach people how to use training mode properly/have useful tools in there/allow 2p training mode.

    Skullgirls has a decent tutorial to teach people the basics, the movesets for the characters (with explanations!), and intro combo business. The next step would be to let them play other people and see what they absorbed. Hopefully matchmaking is performed decently and puts them against similar opponents after a couple matches. Or the game could encourage newbie lobbies etc. Then players can look and see "hey, maybe I should learn some combos" and go into training mode. It's a back and forth thing. No normal player is going to want to hop in a new game they thought looked cool and sit in training mode beating up on a stationary dummy without direction. They'd probably just quit first.

    Also though, you should post this on the Skullgirls Steam community if you haven't yet, lots of people seem to be frustrated there by getting stomped repeatedly.
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,025
    I'm pretty sick of making a beginner room and having someone with way more experience join it and stomp me mercilessly.

    Also, I tried the OP's advice. I can't stomach more than about 45 minutes of training mode. It's not that I haven't done that in the past, I've probably put over 100 hours into PSP GGXX and GGAC training modes, but that was a different time in my life, where I had to do was play PSP by myself. It can't sit in training mode beating on a dummy when I know there are real opponents out there.
  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    I think the beginner rooms have been pretty good so far, once in awhile I run into 3 person teams doing 50+ hit giant combos, resets, and all that. However for the most part, basic combos and figuring stuff out.




  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 21,536
    edited August 2013
    We not saying go do nothing but practice mode, but pratice mode is a good place to make sure you can get off the moves you want before you switch to a local on online play.
    I every once in awhile go and practice quarter circles and other moves. While I am no Pro material, I can beat most mid tier players.

    There is a mark difference between playing casually for fun and playing serious competitive match
    You want to go for fun, play for fun, there nothing wrong with that. But if you want to be GOOD and you want to make those Pros ay tourneys sweat, you going to have to grind that practice mode till pratice mode becomes your bitch and goes to the kitchen to make you a sandwich.

    Hell I have a friend whos good at Blazblue just because he plays the PSP version alot (I really mean alot), yes I said the PSP version on a PSP. He isn't a top tier pro but he can give local tourney players a run for their money. He just sits there play story mode on everyone, then plays alot of random arcade match ups, so he knows everyones moves and combos pretty well.
    I'm pretty sick of making a beginner room and having someone with way more experience join it and stomp me mercilessly.

    Also, I tried the OP's advice. I can't stomach more than about 45 minutes of training mode. It's not that I haven't done that in the past, I've probably put over 100 hours into PSP GGXX and GGAC training modes, but that was a different time in my life, where I had to do was play PSP by myself. It can't sit in training mode beating on a dummy when I know there are real opponents out there.
    And you are going about it wrong. You have to want to Practice, you have to want to sit there and meticulously hammer out every move and combo till where you can reproduce the same results everytime.
    If you can do all that in 45 min go for it, but I am telling you there no short cuts in success.

    Why do Football (or insert sport here) players run drills during practice instead of actual playing the actual game?
    Why do you have to practice martial arts moves painfully slow before you allowed to ever go full speed?
    Why do artist sketch instead of straight up go to oil paintings?

    You have to be Hungry for it, but you also have to prepare first.

    @Evolution169 you do not want to practice because you do not want it, you aren't hungry enough for that victory.
    You keep that attitude and you always be in that beginners room.

    DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES, MAKE SOLUTIONS!!!
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,025
    edited August 2013
    So I guess now I have to decide whether I want to spend hours upon hours in training mode, or stay in the beginner room. Actually, I don't think the beginner room is even a viable option, because as time goes on and newer games come out, the number of beginners will dwindle until they are too rare.

    Sadly, I've put in time into GGXX/AC training modes, but those games are dead online. And, while Skullgirls is really cool, I would play GG over all else.

    Also, I guess it's just the way fighting games are, but in other games you do get better by playing online. Try and get good at Quake Live by playing bots, it will never happen.
  • Screw_TiersScrew_Tiers Screw_Tires? Screw_Tears? Fuck This Name Joined: Posts: 867
    I think going to training mode is a must. I feel most people just pick a character and go online to learn their character's moveset. Every time I pick up a new game or character, I simply go to training. I agree with playing local first then heading to online later as you can sit down with the player and chat about what you can improve on. My sister's boyfriend introduce me to MvC 3 and we always had long playing sessions. I remember one that lasted 2-3 hours and I went 3-90. After that I want to improve on my skills and he left the game over, from there, I hit training and arcade mode 24/7 and because of that, I got better.
    dstln wrote: »
    Playing in training mode by yourself isn't fun, you can't reasonably tell newbies to sit in there. The best way is to 1. have a good tutorial system, 2. have good matchmaking and 3. teach people how to use training mode properly/have useful tools in there/allow 2p training mode.

    I agree dstln. Training mode alone can't teach EVERYTHING and I praise Namco for the Fight Lab mission as that taught you everything you need. I also praise developers who add a network simulation, so you can practice in any type of lag. Not too sure if trails (SF4 and UMvC3) really help but I think they give you a basic idea what your character can do.
    "Farts stink like a motherfucker!"
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 21,536
    edited August 2013
    Quake does not have Combos and speciality moves. Its a Gun and run kind of FPS.

    Comparing Skull Girls to Quake is like comparing Metal Gear Solid to FarmVille.

    You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance. is my signature for a reason, not because its a funny mistranslation of "If you cannot overcome the Rising Dragon Punch, you cannot win!" but it also states the impossible. When Ryu said You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance in Street Fighter II there was no Sheng Long. How you beat someone who do not exist?

    tumblr_lkh4f1fUd91qe6zbao1_500.jpg
    FOOL!!!!

    I can already see your heart is not in it. You put time into Guilty Gear Training Modes? What like five minutes and get bored?
    Did Rocky got bored of lifting rocks and pulling carriages ment for horses to pull in Rocky IV?
    Did Ray Lewis got bored of doing drills in practice?
    Did Daniel got bored waxing card in the Karate Kid? (well actually he did, but it paid off didn't it).

    Do you see Daigo Umehara bitch about having to do practicing for Street Fighter?


    There no special trick, no secret weapon, their several dozen grip styles for a joystick and each style a pro will swear by it, no magical arcade stick or game pad that makes you better and your TV input lag a sorry excuse.

    I start my mornings with a cup of herbal tea
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    Dude wrote: »
    One final thought. You are a big advocate of going to tourneys. Some common sentiments with this are usually "it doesn't matter if you're not good, just go have fun", "nobody wins their first tourney", "you'll only get better by going to tourneys/locals in the first place", etc... I don't see a difference between these sentiments and similar sentiments in regards to online or local casual play.
    You don't go to tourneys just to compete. You go to play against a wide variety of opponents in casuals, to increase your matchup knowledge, and to learn new stuff from watching other people. Yes, you can get a lot of this online, however local play/tournament casuals is still preferable to playing online because you can ask questions and get answers faster (ideally with hands-on application of principles and techniques), and you also don't have to worry about input lag. There's also something to be said about playing an opponent next to you instead of over a wire. There's a tension there that you can't find anywhere online.

    Concerning training mode, Danny was right about a lot of things. Ultimately, this is what you ideally need to be using training mode for:

    -- Familiarization of normals (crouching, standing, close, far, air, etc etc), command normals, and special moves. Do them until you can visualize them all when you close your eyes.
    -- Doing execution drills: Practice the same move over and over until you can do it 5/10/20/whatever times without messing up once. If you're doing to 20 and you screw up at 16 -- start over. Do the same thing with combos. Practice them until you can do them without even thinking about it.
    -- Practicing hit confirming by using Random Guard and confirming your pokes into your combos a set amount of times without dropping it or doing the full combo while they're blocking (unless your blockstring ends in something safe).

    Too many people go into training mode without a goal. They go in, act on whatever random thought comes to mind, practice until they're frustrated, and then quit without having learned anything. Always go into it with the mindset of "I want to master this combo," "I need to work on my hit confirms," or "I need to familiarize myself with what is unsafe." Even the best professional players hit up training mode regularly.

    After all that, take what you learned and go play against other people, ideally of your own skill level. If you play someone better and get steamrolled, don't get discouraged. Ask them questions about the match, take what they say to heart, and then apply it to your training.

    Don't be afraid to play the computer, either. In the case of Skullgirls, the AI on the hardest difficulty actually isn't that bad. I used to run through arcade mode a few times in a row (resetting when I got to Marie) just to practice my stuff on a "live" opponent.
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype. Huh, I think I just solved the problem with the entire community." -- Mike Z on the FGC

  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,025
    Darksakul wrote: »
    I can already see your heart is not in it. You put time into Guilty Gear Training Modes? What like five minutes and get bored?
    I already said over 100 hours.

    No my heart isn't in it enough to work all day in the heat and then spend 2-3 hours grinding against a dummy. Actually, the grinding part isn't so bad because I do enjoy learning my character and discovering exciting new things. The worst part is when I start to fall asleep while playing. Maybe when winter gets here I'll have more energy for that.

    Whatever the case, I feel like I need a fighter to tide me over until GG Xrd comes out. Skullgirls is pretty awesome, and the PC community seems to be great, so this might be worth the grind and caffeine guzzling. But I just gotta try it and see.
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    So I guess now I have to decide whether I want to spend hours upon hours in training mode, or stay in the beginner room. Actually, I don't think the beginner room is even a viable option, because as time goes on and newer games come out, the number of beginners will dwindle until they are too rare.

    Sadly, I've put in time into GGXX/AC training modes, but those games are dead online. And, while Skullgirls is really cool, I would play GG over all else.

    Also, I guess it's just the way fighting games are, but in other games you do get better by playing online. Try and get good at Quake Live by playing bots, it will never happen.

    skullgirls is more of a combo game. Play a more footsie orientated fighting game, if you know the special moves you can directly play online, there is not much need for a training mode, besides learning really basic bnbs. Mastering the game happens against real opponents. And with these games you know why you lose, because your oppoent outplays you and not because he is a roboter who does a 50+hit combo because you got hit one time. Dont want to learn the shit? Then skullgirls is the wrong game (its also for me).

  • SocraticClownSocraticClown pondering my greatness Joined: Posts: 490
    Thanks for the advice. I was under the impression that the training mode would teach me bad habits, since I would be learning what works best against a training dummy and not against real people.
    No.
    You are mistaken.
    Its not Training mode that teaches you bad habits....its playing against the CPU in versus or arcade mode that teaches people bad habits.

    I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance,
    that and a teen girlfriend is the cure for a mid life crisis
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,553 mod
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Did Rocky got bored of lifting rocks and pulling carriages ment for horses to pull in Rocky IV?
    Obligatory.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • blufangblufang Devour! Joined: Posts: 4,486
    Rocky IV isn't the best in the series, but it definitely has the best montage. That old school training vs New school is epic.




  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    MissionSchabernack is either a troll, or hasn't played or followed this game's development. Either way, ignore him.

    BnBs are no longer that long, and they are easy to do (it's not like you have 29 links in a 30 hit combo. It's all just magic series. And with all the multihitting moves in this game, the number of hits looks more intimidating than it is). And footsies absolutely exist in this game.
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    Thanks for the advice. I was under the impression that the training mode would teach me bad habits, since I would be learning what works best against a training dummy and not against real people.
    No.
    You are mistaken.
    Its not Training mode that teaches you bad habits....its playing against the CPU in versus or arcade mode that teaches people bad habits.
    I learned my worst habits playing against people online. The crap that works online doesn't always work in actual play.
    Dude wrote: »
    MissionSchabernack is either a troll, or hasn't played or followed this game's development. Either way, ignore him.
    I agree completely.

    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype. Huh, I think I just solved the problem with the entire community." -- Mike Z on the FGC

  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,025
    Dude wrote: »
    MissionSchabernack is either a troll, or hasn't played or followed this game's development. Either way, ignore him.
    Well, he did say that he doesn't play the game. I think he played the game and his first impression formed when he went online and got repeatedly owned by large combos. I had the same first impression as well, that the game was just combos when your opponent makes a mistake. But I decided to go on youtube and watch EVO videos so I could see what high levels of play look like.

    He obviously shouldn't be offering an opinion on how the game is played if he hasn't put in the time and advanced to higher levels.
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,678
    d3v wrote: »
    Or maybe because what Dan posted makes alot of sense.
    Does it
    Where
    Why.
  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    Dude wrote: »
    MissionSchabernack is either a troll, or hasn't played or followed this game's development. Either way, ignore him.
    Well, he did say that he doesn't play the game. I think he played the game and his first impression formed when he went online and got repeatedly owned by large combos. I had the same first impression as well, that the game was just combos when your opponent makes a mistake. But I decided to go on youtube and watch EVO videos so I could see what high levels of play look like.

    He obviously shouldn't be offering an opinion on how the game is played if he hasn't put in the time and advanced to higher levels.

    One thing to note is that EVO 2013 used the console version, and a lot of the really long stuff is not possible in the beta (and soon won't be possible on console either).
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,913
    Darksakul wrote: »
    I can already see your heart is not in it. You put time into Guilty Gear Training Modes? What like five minutes and get bored?
    I already said over 100 hours.

    No my heart isn't in it enough to work all day in the heat and then spend 2-3 hours grinding against a dummy. Actually, the grinding part isn't so bad because I do enjoy learning my character and discovering exciting new things. The worst part is when I start to fall asleep while playing. Maybe when winter gets here I'll have more energy for that.

    Whatever the case, I feel like I need a fighter to tide me over until GG Xrd comes out. Skullgirls is pretty awesome, and the PC community seems to be great, so this might be worth the grind and caffeine guzzling. But I just gotta try it and see.

    I tried to play against a player in expert lobby. He was very good and fast. I couldnt do much really, except draining a little more of his energy in the last match. That speed and reaction was beyond my level. Problem was more with defense, not offense. Combos could be avoided but he used every idle millisecond to his advantage

    I checked his profile. Over 230 hours in the game and it is barely 1.5 month old on Steam. Dont know if he owned the console version prior to that. Those are the gaming hours I've spent in all games in a year.....

    I've never put so much dedication in a game even during my NES childhood.....
    I'll stick to intermediate I guess.

    too slow!
  • MissionSchabernackMissionSchabernack Joined: Posts: 488
    edited August 2013
    Are you all blind?



    the game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.
  • ashxuashxu Joined: Posts: 132
    edited August 2013
    Celerity wrote: »
    I wanted to add another thing, which is that in my experience, the mistake most new players make is spending way TOO MUCH time in training mode. They feel like they're never ready to fight other people, so they play vs AI all day and never improve, and thus, never feel ready. These people do not need further encouragement to stay in single player.

    For everybody else who just wants to jump into the game, advising too much training mode time can be harmful since they are likely to stop having fun, and lose their motivation to grow. That's why I insist that if you're going to make bold statements like "use training mode for 2-3 hours a day" or "perfect your character before even thinking about human competition", you need to specify what they should be doing so that they can see real improvement and adapt the plan to their needs.
    The problem with this is that a lot of FGs have already established playerbases and trying to get on their level is like trying to dig through a brick wall with a spoon. SG is new on PC so if you start now you might be able to catch up but in games like SF4 a ton of the players are already really good and you're just going to get shit on.

    It's a vicious cycle of players not getting into the game because of no fellow newbies to fight.
  • Vlad7779311Vlad7779311 Joined: Posts: 374
    ashxu wrote: »
    Celerity wrote: »
    I wanted to add another thing, which is that in my experience, the mistake most new players make is spending way TOO MUCH time in training mode. They feel like they're never ready to fight other people, so they play vs AI all day and never improve, and thus, never feel ready. These people do not need further encouragement to stay in single player.

    For everybody else who just wants to jump into the game, advising too much training mode time can be harmful since they are likely to stop having fun, and lose their motivation to grow. That's why I insist that if you're going to make bold statements like "use training mode for 2-3 hours a day" or "perfect your character before even thinking about human competition", you need to specify what they should be doing so that they can see real improvement and adapt the plan to their needs.
    The problem with this is that a lot of FGs have already established playerbases and trying to get on their level is like trying to dig through a brick wall with a spoon. SG is new on PC so if you start now you might be able to catch up but in games like SF4 a ton of the players are already really good and you're just going to get shit on.

    It's a vicious cycle of players not getting into the game because of no fellow newbies to fight.

    SG already has an established playerbase. Many of the console players donated money during the IGG campaign for the PC Version.
    Playing as:
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  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    Are you all blind?



    the game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.

    So in 4 days when the beta stops being a beta, and a couple weeks after that when consoles are brought up to speed with undizzy, you'll come in here and redact all your previous comments? Awesome! See ya then.
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,025
    edited August 2013
    petran79 wrote: »
    I tried to play against a player in expert lobby. He was very good and fast. I couldnt do much really, except draining a little more of his energy in the last match. That speed and reaction was beyond my level. Problem was more with defense, not offense. Combos could be avoided but he used every idle millisecond to his advantage

    I checked his profile. Over 230 hours in the game and it is barely 1.5 month old on Steam. Dont know if he owned the console version prior to that. Those are the gaming hours I've spent in all games in a year.....

    I've never put so much dedication in a game even during my NES childhood.....
    I'll stick to intermediate I guess.

    230 hours on 1.5 months is quite a bit. I don't think the game is 1.5 months old on Steam though, or is it? Send me a Steam friend invite if you wanna play sometime(if you're in the US).
    Are you all blind?

    The game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.
    I hadn't seen that video. I can see what you mean, that is just ridiculous.

    The current version might be in beta, but it will be out of beta in a few days. If they improved the combo system that you had a problem with, you should consider coming back to it. I don't know exactly what was going on in that video, but now when a combo is repeated, any button press will break it.
  • Vlad7779311Vlad7779311 Joined: Posts: 374
    petran79 wrote: »
    I tried to play against a player in expert lobby. He was very good and fast. I couldnt do much really, except draining a little more of his energy in the last match. That speed and reaction was beyond my level. Problem was more with defense, not offense. Combos could be avoided but he used every idle millisecond to his advantage

    I checked his profile. Over 230 hours in the game and it is barely 1.5 month old on Steam. Dont know if he owned the console version prior to that. Those are the gaming hours I've spent in all games in a year.....

    I've never put so much dedication in a game even during my NES childhood.....
    I'll stick to intermediate I guess.

    230 hours on 1.5 months is quite a bit. I don't think the game is 1.5 months old on Steam though, or is it? Send me a Steam friend invite if you wanna play sometime(if you're in the US).
    Are you all blind?

    The game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.
    I hadn't seen that video. I can see what you mean, that is just ridiculous.

    The current version might be in beta, but it will be out of beta in a few days. If they improved the combo system that you had a problem with, you should consider coming back to it. I don't know exactly what was going on in that video, but now when a combo is repeated, any button press will break it.
    I got the beta in early July. BTW, some people leave the game on idle for long periods of time.
    Playing as:
    UNIEL: Yuzuriha, Gordeau
    BBCPEX: Bullet
    GG Xrd Revelator: I-No
    Koihime Enbu: Kan'u
    Killer Instinct:/ Fulgore
    Nitroplus Blasterz: Ignis
  • MegamanDSMegamanDS SRK Moderator - 15+ year club Joined: Posts: 4,420 mod
    Wow, this thread was dead the first few days so I ignored it. Now its blown up. I first want to start by saying I read every post. Some of the criticisms I received are correct and incorrect at the same time. I didn't go in great detail in my original post which is why much of it was open to your own interpretation of what you thought I meant.

    Many of you seem focused on my "2-3 hour in training mode a day" comment. Also, many of you don't see where your skill level is to fit in my comment. My post was intended for new SG players who casually play FGs and want to strive to be A TOP PLAYER. If you want to get "average" at the game, my post very well most likely doesn't concern you. I guess if I ever write a mini book or a strategy guide, I have to have different chapters focusing on how good on a 1-10 scale you actually want to get.


    Many of you are also saying that I am saying ONLY TRAINING MODE matters and playing against real people doesn't matter which is COMPLETELY FALSE. You need a balance of both to become good. But if you are NEW, you SHOULD start in training mode. I come from a long line of FGs and the day I got SG, I went into training mode, picked 3 characters and messed around for good amount of time until I got a feel for them, then recycled until I played all 8 characters and made an informed decision on what characters fit my playstyle. For example, if you know MvC2, I will reference that game a lot.

    1. Painwheel is an airbased flying characters with pretty fast offensive high-low attacks. She has good offensive moves and can put a player into a vortex. She can also fly away and run and play a good defensive game. She doesn't have quick projectiles or very quick/range attacks so her trouble comes when someone is zoning her out well. I compared her to sentinal which fits my playstyle.

    2. Peacock is obviously a zone character. She doesn't have fast overheads like some others so she lacks the offensive high-low game. She is great for someone who has A LOT of patience and execution/timing. I am a very impatient players (my flaw) so this character was a no for me.

    3. Parasoul has a little bit of everything to me. She can zone well if she needs to, she can control floor pretty well and has great footsies. She also has great potential for resets once she gets the ball rolling. She feels like a storm/magneto to me. Her flaw is her grounding dashing is short/slow/non-normal cancelable (like Dr. Doom). So each time you move the floor, you have to be thinking ahead at all times and protect yourself.

    I can go on, but I'll stop there. Because of training mode, I learned the advantages/disadvantages of each character.

    You can ask ANY TOP/PROFESSIONAL player what they think of training mode and how much time they spend and you will see how they answer. Heck, Fanatiq is streaming training mode on a daily basis to upkeep his muscle memory and combos as well as figure out new resets and more damaging combos.


    Now, if you want to become just good or an average player, you can spend minimal time in the lab and just learn the basic BnBs of your characters. So you spend about say 10-15 minutes, learn a nice 15 hit combo into super and DHC. Now your ready to go play other people. But you haven't learned multiple combos, you haven't learned resets, you haven't learned how to combo off throws (different combos due to IPS change), you haven't learned what combos you can do off of a jumping attack, you haven't learned combos if you used your OTG to start the combo etc...

    So when those situations come up in the match, your opponent will burst or you will drop your combo because you forgot you used your OTG.







    Now the benefits of playing a person over training mode... There are some BIG things that you can only learn from playing real people. This is more where the mental game comes in rather than the muscle memory. When you hear the commentator say "Oh Daigo just downloaded Justin", you will understand why. When you play people, you need to adapt your game to your opponents. You need to feel them out and see what they are doing, their patterns, how good their combos are, when they reset, when they jump etc... You will also learn how to block, when to pushblock, when to burst and when to tech throw. This is all specific to the opponent you are playing. You must be aware of the surroundings of the match at all times. You will learn the distance you should keep in order to be safe or when to throw out your pokes or to call your assist. When you actually can start hit confirming, you can now implement the combos you learned from TRAINING MODE.

    General stuff you will learn from playing people is blocking and situational combos your characters can do off of specific hits (though I think training mode can help here as well). Playing people better than you will show you where your flaws are. You will say "dam, i should've blocked high. I should look out for that reset." You will also learn "I see my super isn't safe against that character when he does that". You will learn all your situational encounters playing a live person. You will also learn accidental new tech that occurs by coincidence.



    All in all, what I meant was for fresh players to start in training mode because some of the players I run into don't even know how to pushblock or launch or even a simple 3 hit chain. They are clearly just holding forward trying to hit me with anything. I don't care if you don't agree with me, but I am not only speaking from my 10+ year personal experience, but also from other top players' experience.

    Now can we turn this thread into more of a Q&A for getting better for new players that are actually determined to improve and not blame lag for their loss?
    Proven: Top MvC2 & XMvSF player | Proving now: Top Skull Girls player Watch and follow my journey
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  • PortaljackerPortaljacker Joined: Posts: 105
    edited August 2013
    Dude wrote: »
    Are you all blind?



    the game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.

    So in 4 days when the beta stops being a beta, and a couple weeks after that when consoles are brought up to speed with undizzy, you'll come in here and redact all your previous comments? Awesome! See ya then.

    @Dude Try in 6 months for the console version:
  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    Dude wrote: »
    Are you all blind?



    the game insists mainly TODs, there are combos after combos. Resets? Yeah air throws, wow, very dramatic, the opponent may have fell aslep during the combos anyway. The pace of the game is completely destroyed, if you find that appealing, okay. Not for me, I am out and play fighting games where I dont have to wait or make a coffee during the match.

    edit: oh yeah and recent development. I followed the change lists, but I am not interested in beta versions. the CURRENT version for me is the actual console version, and yeah, its a combo game, I think I mentioned something like that lol. Actually the developers recognized their mistake and try to change it in the future, I was preaching it from day 1 skullgirls against a wall of skullgirls hipsters and now the majority want shorter combos, wow. But dont you dare say anything mean to skullgirls on srk, where any single change or news is on the frontpage.

    So in 4 days when the beta stops being a beta, and a couple weeks after that when consoles are brought up to speed with undizzy, you'll come in here and redact all your previous comments? Awesome! See ya then.

    @Dude Try in 6 months for the console version:

    Hmm. That is unfortunate. Though it's not really clear what they mean by definitive. I mean, assuming that it'll take 6 more months to finish the rest of the DLC, they could just mean that PC will have the DLC earlier in each case. I really doubt they signed a contract with MAQL that said "we can update the console with new DLC characters, but no further patches until all characters are released"... I'd like to get more details on this. Thanks for the info though.

  • PortaljackerPortaljacker Joined: Posts: 105
    @Dude I know, I've been considering buying the PS3 version as well, but this makes it hard. They need to be more clear about this.
  • DudeDude Joined: Posts: 199
    @Dude I know, I've been considering buying the PS3 version as well, but this makes it hard. They need to be more clear about this.

    I tweeted them for clarification. I'll page you on the off-topic thread (don"t wanna derail this thread too much) if I hear back.
  • ashxuashxu Joined: Posts: 132
    Doesn't it cost money and take a lot of time to push out updates for consoles? Microsoft removed their update fee but I think PS3 still has it.

    Steam you can just put out updates whenever you want so it's very convenient, especially for a beta.
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,913
    MegamanDS wrote: »

    Now, if you want to become just good or an average player, you can spend minimal time in the lab and just learn the basic BnBs of your characters. So you spend about say 10-15 minutes, learn a nice 15 hit combo into super and DHC. Now your ready to go play other people. But you haven't learned multiple combos, you haven't learned resets, you haven't learned how to combo off throws (different combos due to IPS change), you haven't learned what combos you can do off of a jumping attack, you haven't learned combos if you used your OTG to start the combo etc...

    All in all, what I meant was for fresh players to start in training mode because some of the players I run into don't even know how to pushblock or launch or even a simple 3 hit chain. They are clearly just holding forward trying to hit me with anything. I don't care if you don't agree with me, but I am not only speaking from my 10+ year personal experience, but also from other top players' experience.

    Now can we turn this thread into more of a Q&A for getting better for new players that are actually determined to improve and not blame lag for their loss?


    this is understandable.
    It is probably the first time PC fighters get such kind of fighter, emulated ones excluded.
    Closest I can think of is Melty Blood and some obscure anime fighters, but they arent so popular either to guarantee a wider player base.
    Other more popular games based on similar mechanics, like BlazBlue and Guilty Gear, havent been updated on PC for years, since they received a small market share.
    Also game is far from keyboard friendly for some moves (eg 360 motions), unlike SF4 or BB CT.
    The majority coming from SF4 will meet a completely different game.

    While the game looks easy and very user friendly, its core gameplay is basically for the hardcore players, rather those of anime fighters instead of MvC2.
    In contrast to SF4 I dont think it will motivate a lot of players to become top.
    But the good thing is that a lot of good console players entered the community so, just like in your case, they'll motivate the beginners to become better to the extent they can. I'll try to learn the game a little better once I am back from vacation....


    ashxu wrote: »
    Doesn't it cost money and take a lot of time to push out updates for consoles? Microsoft removed their update fee but I think PS3 still has it.

    Steam you can just put out updates whenever you want so it's very convenient, especially for a beta.

    Skullgirls started as a console game with an anticipated PC port.
    Now it became a PC game with an anticipated console port...

    too slow!
  • Vlad7779311Vlad7779311 Joined: Posts: 374
    I think Mike Z said that it's free to patch on PSN, but not as quick as Steam. Also, I heard that lobbies will be PC-exclusive for a short time, but I'm hoping they will be updating the console versions with balance patch and DLCs soon after this week's PC Release.
    Playing as:
    UNIEL: Yuzuriha, Gordeau
    BBCPEX: Bullet
    GG Xrd Revelator: I-No
    Koihime Enbu: Kan'u
    Killer Instinct:/ Fulgore
    Nitroplus Blasterz: Ignis
  • VulpesVulpes No. Joined: Posts: 3,678
    edited August 2013
    @Dude Try in 6 months for the console version:
    LOBBIES will be a PC Exclusive for 6 months, as they're funded by MAQL (actually MAQL could've demanded for them to be forever PC exclusive).
    The patch aside from that will hopefully arrive sooner than that.

    22 Aug + Additional Dev Time + 2 Weeks + Lab0 Time; I expect something like Oct/Nov.

    E: At least that's what was communicated up till now. This tweet indeed sounds like they mean they won't patch consoles at all for 6 months, which is rather weird.
    Why.
  • The MartianThe Martian G.O.L.D. Joined: Posts: 12,130
    Just a quick heads up I'm giving to some Skullgirls peeps:

    In light of the forthcoming major update for SG across all platforms, I've created a Facebook group. Anyone here is more than welcome to join. This group was made in an attempt to bring more SG players together to a place where everyone can easily share insight on the game, find people to play against, and to discuss general Skullgirls related content. I'll be updating the page on a regular basis as well with news on the franchise, art, combo videos, ect ect, so if any of you have art or combo vids to share feel more than welcome to share them with everyone in this group. The more the merrier.

    I'm hoping to bring in a lot of new and old players by the time the new version drops on all platforms, so if you guys have any friends who have a passion for this game, tell them about this group! The main goal here is to make it into a resource for new and old players alike, so everyone be respectful and insightful and we shouldn't have any problems.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/541765629224128/

    Let's get this game the recognition it deserves!




    Extra text so my posts don't show up on whatever possible spam filter this site might have.
    "You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you."
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    Just a quick heads up I'm giving to some Skullgirls peeps:
    While I totally applaud your enthusiasm...

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/298284046938097/

    Yeah.

    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype. Huh, I think I just solved the problem with the entire community." -- Mike Z on the FGC

  • evilweevleevilweevle Xbox GT : MrFossy Joined: Posts: 4,275
    edited August 2013
    that comment about console versions being behind 6 months better not be true.

    if it is then seriously i am out. what a fucking joke.

    edit : just read vulpes post. thank god for that. i can wait a couple months but 6 would have been the straw that broke the camels back.
    3DS friend code : 0232 8273 2994
  • ThinkurfakinepicThinkurfakinepic Joined: Posts: 1
    MegamanDS wrote: »
    I've been debating on doing this for a while but I will give a brief statement and see how the responses are before actually writing an entire paper about it.

    First off, my name is Danny aka MegamanDS. I am known for usually trolling or acting dumb but this is going to be a very serious post for the incoming gamers.

    I've been playing games since I was a baby and playing professionally/competitively since 2001. I have won tournaments, been sponsored, made plenty of combo videos, posted hundreds of videos of matches and much much more for the FGC. I stopped playing competitively since 2009 and with Skullgirls being released in 2012, it brought me back to the competitive playing level.

    Now, I'm not claiming to be the best like I usually do or blah blah, but I do honestly consider myself good at the game. Heck, not to sound cocky but when the game was first launching, I am usually the innovator for certain tactics, playstyles, assists and combos (like I am for all games I play). I brought my MvC2 playstyle to this game and it seems to be the way the game is moving.

    So what leads me to this post is that I have been playing a lot of PC Beta now and just online in general (since this game is lag-free online yay!) and I notice that 90% (not exaggerating) of the players I play DON'T know how to play or what they are doing. Now I'm not saying they suck. There is a difference in my opinion between someone that sucks and someone that just doesn't know how to play. The advice I want to give to all you new players is two words: TRAINING MODE.

    To learn how to play the game, go through the tutorial for basic fighting game fundamentals. Once you know that, go to training mode and learn moves, then learn combos, then learn basic tactics, then learn advance tactics. I am not trying to be mean, but actually trying to give serious advice. You must spends hours (and I mean HOURS) in training mode perfecting your characters before jumping online to play actual opponents. I know its going to suck, its going to be boring, its going to be tedious, but it WILL pay off.

    Playing online will NOT make you better if you don't know how to play. Playing online (or other people) will make you better once you DO know how to play because then it will teach you matchups, specific scenarios, poking games, adapting to your opponent and so forth.



    So please, if you are new to the game, spend about 2-3 hours a day in training mode learning all the characters until you fall in love with a couple. Then spend hours in training mode learning their moves and combos.

    If this post gets good feedback or shared or anything, I will write an entire article on how to get good at fighting games. I've been in the scene long enough to know what makes you a top player. Even though I personally am not the best, its not because I can't be, its because of training mode and time restraints.

    fuck you buddy

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