The Street Fighter Plot Canon Guide development thread

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  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    mikros wrote: »
    Now, honestly, Vasili, I’ve taken a quick read to 5.u and I have to say that you’ve wasted a very good chance at showing you had learned something from “the incident”.

    On the contrary, mikros, 5.u reflects exactly what was learned from "the incident," in addition to keeping in accordance with CJ and USF4, and whether anyone refuses to believe any or all of these points or not.

    Any desired questions to me from this point forward, witnessing that the rabidness from WF continues to be spilled into here as well, shall be through one of the three methods of contact specified in 5.u, and no exceptions to these.

    One question asked and answered at a time per person, before moving onto another. That should be reasonable in terms of accommodating everyone, as there are already questions being posed to me and being addressed in this fashion and pattern, even as we speak.

    With this I take my posting leave from this thread as well. If anyone decides to make anything happen using Tiamat's final draft or something made from scratch, a reminder to heed Sano's post above and best of success.



  • mikrosmikros Yo, Joe! Joined: Posts: 1,029
    edited September 2014
    So, what you learned from the incident was that it is easier to have no public discussions and no challenges?

    Let me repeat that I truly appreciate your work, but you are taking your guide in the wrong direction. I thought that you would have used this year to take a step back, take a breath and think why most regular members in SRK and CUnity have disagreed with you in various ways, leading to the call to Azrael and the following drama we know, but I see it's all the same.
    Post edited by mikros on
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 439
    mikros wrote: »
    I thought that you would have used this year to take a step back, take a breath and think why most regular members in SRK and CUnity have disagreed with you in various ways

    Really? That's what you thought? If anybody had asked me what I think about Vasili's actions, then I would have predicted that he learned nothing from it and that his opinion didn't change at all.
  • DaemosDaemos Survival of the Strong Joined: Posts: 10,081 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited October 2014
    I remember Vas having a big ego in yonder years, but man get your ass back here on Earth. You are NOT an authority on SF canon, even though it's obvious from your air of self-importance that you truly believe you are. I had so much respect for you for years, but honestly all you are really doing now is consciously disseminating false information into our community. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    I FEEL IT WITHIN MY BODY!
  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    So the little fuckhead's back at it?

    That's funny. I talked to Ono in person at a San Francisco Gamestop signing back in August. Just to show you I'm not joking, here he is on my iPad.

    Photo_on_8_16_14_at_6_11_AM_3.jpg

    He said some of the Capcom staff saw the Plot Guide after the crap Vasili threw at Matt Moylan, and they pretty much all agreed that he's full of shit. "Keeping in accordance with CJ," my ass.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,991
    Fucking classic.
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

    Visit us at the Street Fighter story thread! Click here!
  • AJ1AJ1 Joined: Posts: 85
    So the little fuckhead's back at it?

    That's funny. I talked to Ono in person at a San Francisco Gamestop signing back in August. Just to show you I'm not joking, here he is on my iPad.

    Photo_on_8_16_14_at_6_11_AM_3.jpg

    He said some of the Capcom staff saw the Plot Guide after the crap Vasili threw at Matt Moylan, and they pretty much all agreed that he's full of shit. "Keeping in accordance with CJ," my ass.

    First, what's that on Ono's head, and second, when was this, because I don't recall hearing about Ono making an appearance at a Gamestop?
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,753
    He's dressed as Hugo- note the wig, muscle suit and pink shirt.
    "Bison drinks DELICIOUS expired milk on tuesdays while driving trucks into wandering fighters." - m121akuma

    Warrior's Fate: The identity of Street Fighter's Q. Now in video!

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  • AJ1AJ1 Joined: Posts: 85
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    He's dressed as Hugo- note the wig, muscle suit and pink shirt.

    But was this mentioned in any newsites like IGN or whatever have you?

  • KataklysmicKataklysmic More Tigers! Joined: Posts: 959
    How did I know he'd come back just to flag people's posts? Lol.
    " Scrubs keep our community alive, not top players, everyone (even myself at times) seem to forget that."
    - Arturo Sanchez, aka Sabin
  • DaemosDaemos Survival of the Strong Joined: Posts: 10,081 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So the little fuckhead's back at it?

    That's funny. I talked to Ono in person at a San Francisco Gamestop signing back in August. Just to show you I'm not joking, here he is on my iPad.

    Photo_on_8_16_14_at_6_11_AM_3.jpg

    He said some of the Capcom staff saw the Plot Guide after the crap Vasili threw at Matt Moylan, and they pretty much all agreed that he's full of shit. "Keeping in accordance with CJ," my ass.

    LOL bad ass!!
    I FEEL IT WITHIN MY BODY!
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 439
    Alright, here we are, one year later. (O.k., one day too early, but I guess this doesn't matter.) And this is what I wrote 12 months ago:
    DRW wrote: »
    Let's wait for another year. And then think of my words: Unless a single person took it into his hands by himself, the new plot guide will still be dead. A second plot guide as a community project? Won't happen. If someone tries to revive it, it won't go beyond the planning phase and it will quickly die down again before anything useful came out of it.

    Unlike Vasili, I don't take joy in the fact that the plot guide hasn't advanced, so I'm not quoting myself to make fun of anybody. All I want to say is: Sometimes, the pessimistic stance is the realistic one. People who think the plot guide is not dead because some users come here every few months and write a line or two are a bit too optimistic. It should be pretty clear by now that this project won't go anywhere anymore. Which is really a pity because I would have liked to see a new plot guide. But, well, that's life.
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,753
    Man, I didn't want to agree with you, but unfortunately, I can see your point. Well, maybe now that SF5's trailer has been leaked, people's interest may be renewed? I dunno. It was good while it lasted. :/
    "Bison drinks DELICIOUS expired milk on tuesdays while driving trucks into wandering fighters." - m121akuma

    Warrior's Fate: The identity of Street Fighter's Q. Now in video!

    Concept video for Captain Commando II intro / Attract Mode.

    My StreetFighter voice acting reel
  • Ki ShimaKi Shima This tiger isn't dead.... Joined: Posts: 8,364
    they may as well just make it officially canon that each street fighter game takes place in a day within the same tournament
    "The telephone is virtual reality in that you can meet with someone as if you are together, at least in the auditory sense."

    Ray Kurzweil
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,753
    Hah, that would be a heck of an intense day!
    "Bison drinks DELICIOUS expired milk on tuesdays while driving trucks into wandering fighters." - m121akuma

    Warrior's Fate: The identity of Street Fighter's Q. Now in video!

    Concept video for Captain Commando II intro / Attract Mode.

    My StreetFighter voice acting reel
  • DRWDRW Joined: Posts: 439
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    Well, maybe now that SF5's trailer has been leaked, people's interest may be renewed?

    Eh, I don't think so.
  • DaemosDaemos Survival of the Strong Joined: Posts: 10,081 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well if there was an opportunity to debut a new plot guide, before SF5's release would be it. We still have a bit more than a year!
    I FEEL IT WITHIN MY BODY!
  • GameMasterGameMaster Ansatsuken Warrior Joined: Posts: 85
    I'd prefer a new one be made from scratch. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be treated like some big important business pitch. It's a fan creation, not an internal Capcom project.

    That'd be like slapping copyright strikes on art based off a fan character. Seems kinda silly, but I'm probably missing something.
    Steam: ryan_the_game_master
    XBL: GameMaster2K5

    Mains:

    Street Fighter (etc.): Ansatsuken Fighters, Thunder Hawk, Dee Jay, Chun-Li
    The King of Fighters (etc.): Kyo Kusanagi, Terry Bogard, Mai Shiranui, Iori Yagami
    Dead or Alive: Kasumi, Zack, Ayane, Kokoro
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    Currently looking for:
    • A English-Japanese translator.
    • A team for a fangame.
    PM me if interested.
  • Chunli2kChunli2k Joined: Posts: 1
    First and probably last post, so just wanted to say after starting to read Tiamat's Guide (and also vasili10's shorter version 5.0) I am struck with some odd observations:

    1- The guides express negative feelings towards Capcom, and is defensive against naysayers, and it takes away from the work.
    2- The writing itself is not organized, and focuses on trivia, fan theories (gay Zangief), and has way too much information about Final Fight and the other Capcom franchises.
    3- Seriously, if the goal was to write a Canon Guide, it is not necessary to cover every Street Fighter game variation (for example, if SF: Alpha 2 overwrote SFA1, why ramble about SFA1?), nor is it necessary for UDON comic book discussions since the Guide says that they do not count anyway. There are just walls and walls of text- feels like 1995 all over again- about stuff that should have been in a trivia Wikia or Street Fighter Unauthorized History book.
    4- I would have enjoyed reading about the canon games with nice clear character bios straight from the actual game manuals, as opposed to the mind-numbing "what if?" analysis of every possible ending and possible contradictions. If the case that a retcon occurs in a game or manual, just mention it without going into OCD zone. I also was felt discussing "official" Capcom statements was a waste of time- just focus on the content from the games.
    5- Way too much drama in this thread about Japanese vs American translations, Guide copyright ownership, etc.


  • Doctrine DarkDoctrine Dark Yum Yum Joined: Posts: 7,350
    edited December 2016
    Before you leave, consider reading this thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/205641/the-inevitable-street-fighter-v-story-thread-a-shadow-falls/p1

    We've worked on a new plot guide that contains translations from various guidebooks, Capcom's own websites. There's also all sorts of other information there. Hopefully you'll give it a read before you leave.

    Super Street Fighter Plot Guide II
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
    PSN: SP_Wesker215/XBL: SP Wesker215
    Super Street Fighter Plot Guide II
    Street Fighter V: Cammy, Learning Menat Marvel: Captain Marvelous/Thanos DBFZ: Gohan/Freeza/Trunks
    Guilty Gear Revelator: Venom King of Fighters XIV: Hein/Mature/Kyo
  • bakfromonbakfromon True Void Joined: Posts: 2,068
    edited January 10
    This thread actually exists? Why didn't @Doctrine Dark forward me to this?

    Ya, brand new plot guide is in the works, after how many years (4 maybe?)? Thanks to @Chunli2k for pointing out the flaws in the old plot guide as well as this thread, picking out differences between Japanese and English translations is now going to be a thing of the past with the new plot guide coming afoot. I'm adding the Japanese text ripped right from the guides for anyone to copy and translate themselves, for a better understanding of the series (and overall a better plot guide).

    I still need a bunch of help with it. I'm not a professional translator/ writer/ or anything really (I'm just an ordinary man), just an avid fan of the Street Fighter series. I'm asking for anyone's help who's a fan of Street Fighter to come forth and contribute to the guide. So far I've managed to translate some of the new character profiles from the CFN SFV site, but also guides from SF2 complete guide, All About Capcom 1987-2000, and some of the All About Street Fighter EX. I still need a bunch of material, and I'd like to translate as much (and more) as the (old) plot guide provides.

    Thanks to all the people who have provided me content for the new plot guide, and I also thank @vasili10 (and others like @TiamatRoar, and @Saiki ) for providing the framework and basis for how a "fighting game plot guide" should function, look like, and be overall.

    I want to provide a coherent story for the SF series, and I'd love to continue the legacy of the plot guide, but just like the old plot guide, this is a collaborative experience. Anyone who contributes to this "new plot guide" is an automatic author.

    Street Fighter story is as much as about the competitors from every fold of life (from casual to expert), to fans of the older series( SF- SFIII), as much as the newer series (SFIV-SFV). The new plot guide is as mandible and flexible as the current story is itself. While still retaining the all of the canon story points which are relevant, and in some ways irrelevant.

    Overall, it's a plot guide for the hardcore fans of the series, and I welcome all to the experience.
    Link To The Plot Guide
    The man I face...my closest friend, my brother in arms, and my greatest rival...how has it come to this?
    Japanese language is a 10-0 matchup unless you have that bakfromon Discord tech

    New Street Fighter Plot Guide in the works!!! Currently featuring both Japanese and English transcripts for all the profiles of your favorite World Warriors.
  • mikrosmikros Yo, Joe! Joined: Posts: 1,029
    edited January 22
    Welcome to the forums, @Chunli2k . Please, stay with us and visit the SFV story thread at the SFV subforum as suggested. It's always nice to discuss about the Street Fighter story.

    Chunli2k wrote: »
    1- The guides express negative feelings towards Capcom, and is defensive against naysayers, and it takes away from the work.
    I think this is justified. For the longest time Capcom has cared very little about the story (and while they care about it much more now and we've got a story mode they still don't care about its quality), so in order to understand the story it is important to accept that Capcom gives zero fucks about it. Not sure about the part about naysayers; if you mean one of the opening statements in the guide you have to keep in mind that Tiamat probably received lots of dumb comments, so it worked as a first deterrent.

    Chunli2k wrote: »
    2- The writing itself is not organized, and focuses on trivia, fan theories (gay Zangief), and has way too much information about Final Fight and the other Capcom franchises.
    3- Seriously, if the goal was to write a Canon Guide, it is not necessary to cover every Street Fighter game variation (for example, if SF: Alpha 2 overwrote SFA1, why ramble about SFA1?), nor is it necessary for UDON comic book discussions since the Guide says that they do not count anyway. There are just walls and walls of text- feels like 1995 all over again- about stuff that should have been in a trivia Wikia or Street Fighter Unauthorized History book.
    4- I would have enjoyed reading about the canon games with nice clear character bios straight from the actual game manuals, as opposed to the mind-numbing "what if?" analysis of every possible ending and possible contradictions. If the case that a retcon occurs in a game or manual, just mention it without going into OCD zone. I also was felt discussing "official" Capcom statements was a waste of time- just focus on the content from the games.
    I agree wholeheartedly with the concerns about readability. It is in my opinion one of the most important things to work on. Especially the Plot Guide II is currently a big dump of info which is even harder to read than Tiamat/Vasili's.

    That said, it is a difficult task, as a streamlined guide would be at risk of becoming a dogmatic one. There has to be some reasoning as to why things are canon or why they are not. It might be a good idea to make a guide in two layers: one layer telling only what we think happened in a readable manner and another layer explaining why we think so and dumping all the information.

    One thing to keep in mind about limiting ourselves to list character profiles and game manual information is that they usually don't explain anything: For example, the SFII official text reads: A few years after wandering warrior Ryu defeated Sagat; Fighters from each country around the world fight to aim for the top, each with a hidden purpose in their hearts. Who will be the true Street Fighter, and who is the man wrapped in an evil aura, Bison......? . The explanation to what happened must be gathered from lots of sources and discussed.

    The thing about removing the retconned stuff is that apparently many parts are not fully retconned. A lot of SFA1 scenes probably happened together with SFA2. It also seems that Charlie's SFA2 ending is kinda canon now. A lot of things have apparently blended and mixed (like SFA3 and SFII as a whole?! :o ), so it is important to list all outcomes and discuss why they may or may not be canon. You'll also find a lot of people who, for example, will claim things like Chun Li beating Juri in SF4 because she has a rival battle against her and the player wins, so the guide has to try and explicitly make sense of all those what-if battles and endings to point which ones probably didn't happen or how they might have.

    IMO the guide lost readability when it added full [poorly translated] character backstories. Before that happened each character's entry was small enough to be read quickly and get an undestanding of the character. With the backstories added Vasili tried to order character's information chronologically, but it was still hard to read. It's not an easy task.

    I think Final Fight is important, as we've got a lot of characters from that series in Street Fighter. Slammasters may be more unnecessary, but there's always the choice of not reading it. I welcome having info of those series included.

    And yeah, fan theories were the downfall of the old guide.
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