The Baz Matchup Thread

Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
edited August 2013 in The Baz
I'm no authority on the subject. I'm just going to break the ice with some of my observations on certain matchups with The Baz.

Redacted
The Baz seems to do very well against her. Her steep angle combined with the speed of her kick means The Baz can whiff for meter at his leisure. Once you have as much meter as you want you can use his optional angle to divekick just out of Redacted's range. Once you're there you can press the attack with either a divekick or a Mighty Swing. The Mighty Swing is the safer option IMO. If you do the Mighty Swing just out of Redacted's divekick range then it will cover nearly all of the area she can occupy at that moment(staying still, jumping, kick-backing or Feral Stance). Her best chance is counter kicking you while you are doing a divekick, but her speed and your ability to delay your attack should give her troubles. I think the only thing The Baz has to worry about is Redacted's Cornered Beast.

S-Kill
I think this is also a good match for The Baz. S-Kill can't punish The Baz whiffing for meter except for his Trick but by time he has the meter for that, you have enough meter for The Shocker. Keep an eye on his meter. Once a big chunk of it goes away do The Shocker and you'll catch S-Kill as he pops up in front of you. The Shocker is great in this matchup because S-Kill's kick is so slow. If the time is running up, you can claim the median line and hold it easily with The Shocker. If S-Kill is already on the median line, divekick right at him*. If he teleports away then he's either right above you or he's off the median line and in position to slowly divekick you. Either of his options have The Shocker as a counter. S-Kill can't parry lightning.
*I only do this if I don't have kick factor. Can S-Kill Parry The Baz in Kick Factor mode?

EDIT: S-Kill Kick Factor + Trick ruins the above strat.

Dr. Shoals
I don't know what to do against her. Because of her horizontal jump, you can't safely whiff for meter. At round start, many of the Dr. Shoals I've played against would do a tiger knee'd divekick across the screen which hits The Baz when he's kick-backing or in the middle of a kick. My only success in that regard is jumping up as soon as the match begins and doing a divekick without changing the angle and then kick-back. You land before she reaches you and the lightning stream covers you as she comes in. Once that works once or twice then the opponent just stops doing that and starts using all her tools which puts The Baz at a hard disadvantage. She can use divekick xx Hover to bait out The Shocker and then punish it. Mighty Swing might random her out.

Stream
Haven't played too much against him. What I've gathered so far is the he has a very slow kick which means you can whiff for meter easily and kick-back away from him or counter with The Shocker.

Kick
At the start of a round, if he has Kick Factor then he can kill you where you stand after a maximum height jump. Kick-back or prepare The Shocker. I assume Dive can do this as well. I think this could be an other great match for The Baz. What I do against Kick is pick the Dive gem. At round start do a kick-back to test the waters and see if Kick is going to pursue you. If he doesn't then whiff for meter until you get Kick Factor. If he does pursue you then whiff until he's in a range where he could toetap you if he does a max height divekick(basically as close as comfortably possible). Dive and do a horizontal kick at the peak of your jump to get away. At that range Kick's jump is too low(without Kick Factor, I'm not sure if him having Dive gem matters here) to be able to kick you as you are holding for a horizontal kick. Rinse and repeat until Kick Factor. When you have Kick Factor, double tap and hold kick ASAP for a quick and low torpedo across the stage which is VERY difficult for Kick to avoid. This should net you two easy kills. Once Kick Factor runs out then do it all over again. As an alternative to running away with horizontal kick when he gets close to you, you can risk a Mighty Swing but I'm finding this move less and less reliable. It's good as a surprise and something else for the opponent to worry about though. Party Starter cancels out The Shocker. You're forced to jump and you lose your lightning cloak.

Jefailey
I think this is a bad match for The Baz. Jefailey can put up a wall against The Baz. His dropkick ruins your day at all angles. Your best chance is whiffing for Kick Factor and then going horizontal... IF he doesn't have a big enough head to jump high enough to avoid. Also, he can randomly let out a charged drop kick(tiger kneed, even) to punish you for whiffing. In this match, he actually gets BETTER as his head grows since The Baz's headshot opportunities are rarer than average. If he gets a big head then he's almost Dr. Shoals. If he gets Kick Factor as well...
Post edited by Rioting Soul on

Comments

  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    S-Kill has a much easier time escaping out from under Baz when he does an offensive 60 degree lightning. Also, in order to react to Trick with Shocker you'd need to be grounded and react extremely quickly. Trick is 9 or 10 frames, and the resulting kick is almost instant afterwards. That's 1/6th of a second, and assuming you aren't in the middle of building meter.
    I am the one true frog.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    S-Kill has a much easier time escaping out from under Baz when he does an offensive 60 degree lightning. Also, in order to react to Trick with Shocker you'd need to be grounded and react extremely quickly. Trick is 9 or 10 frames, and the resulting kick is almost instant afterwards. That's 1/6th of a second, and assuming you aren't in the middle of building meter.

    Once I have meter for The Shocker I just move to the middle of the stage and wait. S-Kill is going to have to come to me. If he uses Trick I don't have to react to seeing him appear in front of me, I just do The Shocker as soon as I see his meter deplete by a chunk. If S-Kill approaches with a normal teleport divekick then The Baz can punish it before S-Kill lands. S-Kill can kill him when The Baz takes initiative but a turtling Baz with meter has it in the bag.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    S-Kill has a much easier time escaping out from under Baz when he does an offensive 60 degree lightning. Also, in order to react to Trick with Shocker you'd need to be grounded and react extremely quickly. Trick is 9 or 10 frames, and the resulting kick is almost instant afterwards. That's 1/6th of a second, and assuming you aren't in the middle of building meter.

    Once I have meter for The Shocker I just move to the middle of the stage and wait. S-Kill is going to have to come to me. If he uses Trick I don't have to react to seeing him appear in front of me, I just do The Shocker as soon as I see his meter deplete by a chunk. If S-Kill approaches with a normal teleport divekick then The Baz can punish it before S-Kill lands. S-Kill can kill him when The Baz takes initiative but a turtling Baz with meter has it in the bag.

    How quickly does Shocker activate? If you're looking directly at S-Kill's meter how quickly can you react? Will you be able to tell the difference between Parry and Trick if you're only looking at the meter?
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  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 2013
    When compared to S-Kill warping out, back in and then kicking, The Shocker comes out fast enough. If you do The Shocker in reaction to S-Kill warping out above you then The Baz will get hit. If I'm looking directly at the meter then I can do it no problem. If parry cost more meter(and I feel it should) then I'd have a problem.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    This is all assuming you're sitting on the ground, not building meter, but just waiting for Trick.
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  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is all assuming you're sitting on the ground, not building meter, but just waiting for Trick.

    Lol, I am. Before S-Kill has meter for Trick, I've already gotten all the meter I need. Also keep in mind The Baz divekicks fast if you don't alter the angle, and S-Kill has to jump to use Trick. I can get to the middle of the stage with tigerkneed quick divekicks. Once there, there's no need to move.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    This isn't going anywhere. We obviously have different interpretations of our arguments and aren't going to change them based off of each other.
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  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This isn't going anywhere. We obviously have different interpretations of our arguments and aren't going to change them based off of each other.

    I could be wrong about something. That's just how my S-Kill matches have been going for the most part. Maybe you can show me a few things. Do you play on PS3? I'm Rioting_Soul if you want to get some matches.
  • Gunthor_the_PerilousGunthor_the_Perilous Joined: Posts: 4
    I'de have to agree with Rioting Soul, this S-Kill matchup is handled easily by The Baz thanks to The Shocker stuffing every single one of his options. While, yes, you have to be on point to counter a Trick, it is still very doable, and is not the "What an Answer" that S-Kill was hoping for.

    He isn't the only character that The Baz can hold the line on with nothing more than a The Shocker stocked, but he is the most prominent.

    Bazs need to be more patient overall, I feel. He can benefit a lot from slowing down his game once he has access to his defensive options, especially when he is only one kick away from kickfactor. No character can both get to the line, and hold it, in the last three seconds of a match better than The Baz.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    I'm on Steam, sorry. Thinking back on it, a lot of the matches I win with S-Kill against Baz are because he tried to attack me but I kickbacked. He put himself in a bad position, so the nuances of the matchup didn't matter.
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  • Gunthor_the_PerilousGunthor_the_Perilous Joined: Posts: 4
    Precisely. The Baz is a fantastic defensive character, and S-Kill has no options what so ever to go in on him to pressure him. A Baz that throws himself at you is an easy kill, I agree, since S-Kill is the only character that can punish better than The Baz, but S-Kill can't do anything about an opponent simply going to the opposite side of the screen and meter grinding.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    There's a glitch in the The Baz/Markman match. If The Baz divekicks into glue without kickfactor, the lightning streak that followed you there will reappear when you jump out of the glue. I did it multiple times with dive. Not sure if you can do it with kick-back.
  • King ZealKing Zeal Judge & Juri Joined: Posts: 324
    I just tried to use Shocker on reaction to S-kill's Trick on two different S-kill's, and I'm not sure how feasible this strat is.

    You have to wait for him to use Trick, which means you need to turtle at one spot without diving or kicking, which means he gets all the free meter he wants in the meantime. This means he gets not only Trick, but Kick Factor. Trying to react to Kick Factored Trick is, quite frankly, insane. Not impossible, but extremely unfeasible. Due to the startup frames of Shocker, S-Kill can hit you before the lightning even appears.
    Per-fec-tion: -noun- an exemplification of supreme excellence b : an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence (see also: King Zeal)
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 2013
    King Zeal wrote: »
    I just tried to use Shocker on reaction to S-kill's Trick on two different S-kill's, and I'm not sure how feasible this strat is.

    You have to wait for him to use Trick, which means you need to turtle at one spot without diving or kicking, which means he gets all the free meter he wants in the meantime. This means he gets not only Trick, but Kick Factor. Trying to react to Kick Factored Trick is, quite frankly, insane. Not impossible, but extremely unfeasible. Due to the startup frames of Shocker, S-Kill can hit you before the lightning even appears.

    Yeah. I think that bolded part is what's been screwing me up the most. I never even considered the speed boost of Kick Factor + Trick. The majority of S-Kills I played used it without Kick Factor. I wonder if you can go into Kick Factor to counter S-Kill's Kick Factor activation. Would The Baz's last long enough to protect him until S-Kill loses the meter to do a Trick?
    Post edited by Rioting Soul on
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    Baz, in general, has trouble against two types of characters:

    1. Characters with horizontal kicks (perhaps less so with Kung Pao due to her angle).
    2. Characters with momentum-changing abilities.

    Characters with horizontal kick stop being a problem with KickFactor. In fact, they get bodied by the Baz while he's in KickFactor, to the point where you should be getting at LEAST 2 rounds off of the opponent with one KickFactor, 3 if you're playing it well.

    For momentum-changing, it's, unfortunately, about ducking and weaving until you can find a change to get in an aggressive hit. Shoals and a good Uncle Sensei just totally outplay him at these angles.
  • Gunthor_the_PerilousGunthor_the_Perilous Joined: Posts: 4
    I made this over on the Divekick forums, but I'de love for all of you to pick it apart. These are my thoughts on the matchups, what are yours in response to them?

    First I'm not going to place any "advantage" or "disadvantage" dislcaimers by any of the matchups. This is just information on how to treat them as fighters. It is still a bit too early to boil the neuances of a match down to "7/3." And now, a note on the various gems and their uses.

    Dive Gem: This is strictly used in two matchups to counterpick your opponent. Outside of those, there is no real point in selecting this gem.

    Kick Gem: The most useful gem on The Baz, in my opinion. Both increasing his kick speed, making him safer while crossing/going under his opponent, and extending the hitbox of his lightning for a better punish, this gem will go the further is making your game tighter and more reliable. Never a bad pick for any situation.

    Meter Gem: While not as versatile as the Kick Gem, the Meter Gem is important for matchups where meter is the most important thing you can have, period.

    YOLO Gem: Old and busted. Don't use it, period.

    Dive: Kick Gem: I don't have too terribly much experience versus competent Dives, but this is about as basic as it gets. Build meter when you can, don't let him pressure you into the corner, and when he is landing use that as an opportunity to cross over his head for more space. He is fairly punishable since his kick is so slow and he has no way to modify its speed, so feel free to look for punishment opportunities. Only annoyance is he can evade kickfactor moderately well, so you may only get a kill or two with it.

    Kick: Dive Gem: This is really good news for The Baz. One of the most powerful characters in the game has no answer at all to a The Baz with Dive Gem simply diving to maximum height, then fully charging a kick to cross the screen when he is getting pressured. Use this to your advantage and build free kickfactors all day. And, if the Kick player is trying to keep up with you by rushing you down recklessly, feel free to slap him with some lightning or even a Mighty Swing headshot to cool his jets. As a warning, Kick can clip The Baz a bit easier if he himself has a Dive Gem, so if he has one, be careful. It is still hard for him to tag you, but it is physically possible for him now. Let him pick his gem first, and if he picks anything but Dive, go to town on him with safejumps and lightning all day.

    Shoals: Kick Gem: This is a hard one I'm still getting everything down for. Two things to keep in mind; you will never hit her with your normal lightning, and there is nothing she can do if you just stay under her and build meter. What this means is, you need to focus absolutely all of your mind on playing defensively, and getting past her guard one time so you can stand under her. Once you do that you can jump to meet her where ever she goes to land and she cant get away from you. About the only thing you can hit her with reliably, however, are The Shocker lightning bolts, so try to keep those stocked as much as you can. Two The Shockers are better than one Kickfactor. Lastly, if she gets a headshot on you then she gets two KOs out of it. Accept it, and try not to let her go on a rampage or you're free.

    Kung Pao: Counterpick Dive/Kick Gem: Without her own Dive Gem Kung Pao has the same problem that Kick has wherein she physically has no way to stop The Baz from simply jumping and crossing over her to build free meter and completely evaporate her pressure. If she does pick her own Dive Gem then this matchup gets a bit harder thanks to her good horozontal movement and ways to avoid your lightning/The Shocker thanks to those portals. Try not to let her rush you down and build meter for Kickfactor. A good Kickfactor is worth four kills on Kung Pao.

    Redacted: Kick Gem: This is one of the more difficult matchups for The Baz. Not as bad at the character that follows, but still not great. The Baz does not deal very well with Wall of Pain characters, as he can neither consistently cross over or under them because they can dive/kick so quickly in response to him movement. Redacted can not advance quickly/safely, however, so take advantage of this and try to grind out as much meter as you can. Try not to get yourself cornered, you should always be looking for when you can get past her, more so than trying to get her to sit on your lightning. There is not much she can do to escape kickfactor, but her jumping can eat up a bit of it, so only expect 2/3 kills instead of 3/4.

    Mr. N: Kick Gem: This is a bit like Redacted on hard mode. Same basic rules apply, don't let yourself get pushed into a corner, look for times you can pass by safely, take advantage of his less than stellar horizontal movement to grind out meter. This is one of the hardest, if not the toughtest matchup for The Baz simply because Mr. N combines aspects of both a Wall of Pain character, and an Uncommitted character thanks to his hover. Just keep in mind that he can't interrupt his kick with a hover outside of karacanceling it, so if you see him wiff a kick to advance forward, that is your time to go over his head. Just be careful, the timing to do so is extremely tight.

    Markman: Kick Gem: This is an interesting fight for two reasons. First, Markman's items are a bit buggy with The Baz. If The Baz lands in a glue puddle after kicking, then another new lightning bolt will appear exactly where the first one was the next time he jumps. Likewise, The Baz can kick through Markman's Spring and stand under, making it slightly less deadly. The second reason is that The Baz can punish Item Dig on reaction if he is all ready prepping a kick. Keep this in mind and aim directly ontop of any Markmen digging for trash. Past that this is a pretty standard fight similar to how you would space against Kung Pao. Build up to your free meter if they just want to dig, or kick over and past him if he commits to a long range kick. Just be careful and make sure you clear his head by a good bit, since Feint gives him what is essentially a second jump in the air. You'll likely be killing him with Kickfactor, which he can not do much to escape from, so grind that meter out.

    Uncle Sensei: Kick Gem: While his kick arcs are similar to Dr. Shoals, he is not nearly as vulnerable to staying up on him. He jumps high and kicks far, so do your best to weave past him once he commits to an aggressive action (keeping in mind the variance in movement options from his stances) and grind up that meter. Kickfactor is the safest way to nail him, but he can evade it pretty effectively thanks to his very high dives and floaty kicks. Odds are you'll be nailing him with The Shocker projectile more, so try to treat him like Shoals in that respect. Something to note is that he is noticeably taller when he is standing on his hands, making him much easier to clip with a normal lightning kick. If you absolutely want to punish him, do it when he's going to land on his hands.

    S-Kill: Meter Gem: This is a very defensive fight, and one much in contention between myself and Adelheid. Since S-Kill's horizontal movement options are so poor, and he has no real way to rushdown, this becomes a meter economy fight more than anything. Begin the match by grinding out as much meter as you can until S-Kill is about to get a Trick loaded, then advance to the center line and hold it. Watch his meter hard, because he can Trick for an instant headshot on most of what you can do, but if you react to his meter being drained (not him appearing. If he has all ready teleported than it is too late) you can be fast enough to punish him with a Shocker. The following round you can then grind up to one kick from kickfactor, go to the center line, rinse and repeat. All of his offensive options and movement are extremely telegraphed, so keep this in mind if you ever see an easy punish/kill. Just don't go in too deep, S-Kill is a better defensive character than The Baz, so try to let him come to you.

    Stream: Kick Gem: From all I have seen Stream has a terrible matchup versus The Baz. His kick is so slow that you can simply kickback if he trys to chase you down and pass through him with lightning when he runs out of distance. If he instead ops to sit back and meter build, you can do the same, and you're better at it. The Shocker even beats flame foot. Don't panic when he does a Spooby Please, build meter patiently, and make sure to thank your opponent for the win after the match is over. Oh, last thing, if you do get kickfactor then odds are you will get two kills with it. The first from the initial activation and hitting him as a punish, and the second for chasing him to the corner on the next round after he kickbacks twice and perform a The Shocker to snag him. Don't worry about it feeling wasted too much, you'll get a new one soon enough.

    Jefaily: Kick Gem: This is another defensive match where you are completely free to grind out meter to your heart's content. It takes him forever to charge a kick that goes any kind of distance, and your kickback meter building can outpace his rushdown. Once you have a decent amount of meter or kickfactor he'll probly try to hit you with a Disqualified, so look for it and get out of the way. It holds him in place when he does it, so take that opportunity to get under him and put him down with a The Shocker, which, incidentally, also punishes every other one of his options since his kicks are so telegraphed. Not as free as Stream, as he can be scary if he pushes you into a corner, but be mindful of your spacing and you should be fine no matter what he does. Just don't try to get under his kick.

    Kenny: Kick Gem: Kenny roughly matches the stance of the fighter he is mimicking with a few exceptions. Most notably, Dr. Shoals and Mr. N are both much easier than their normal counterparts. The only thing you have to keep in mind is that your kickfactor still drains he if hits you with a Spirit Bullet, so do your best to avoid it.

    The Baz: Meter Gem: The worst matchup in the game. While I said I wouldn't use an advantage/disadvantage or number system to describe this matchup, this is the only fight that deserves it. 0/10, The Baz is free against The Baz all day. Neither Baz can prevent the other from meter building, due to the wall of lightning out prioritizing the aggressive Baz before his own lightning becomes active. This means that both Bazs grind up to kickfactor, then it each other with the red glow active, netting a double KO and no points scored. Every Baz v Baz matchup is staged, the only way one player can win one is if the other players messes up hard. Don't do Baz dittos, swap your character if your can. It is worth it to learn Mr. N or Redacted just for this matchup.
  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,904 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 2013
    I personally think Baz is mostly helpless against S-Kill. It's a fight where he ends up killing himself.

    That being said, there are some very good Baz's that can make the matchup more even.
    Post edited by King9999 on
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  • Exodus.Exodus. Joined: Posts: 7,016
    I've only fought 1 good S-Kill and I'm not sure how you even approach that MU. To be honest I don't fully understand his mechanics.

    I've resorted to counter picking Kick against Shoals. She's really hard to fight, she dives too high. Maybe if I put on my own dive gem... does that make her matchup any more reasonable?

    I've found that Uncle Sensei is pretty free to Baz. I've been able to tigerknee a punish pretty consistently when they come remotely close to me, foot or hand style. He kicks soooooo slowly you can just watch him fall and meet his body on the ground.

    Maybe its the quality of people that I've played but I disagree with G_t_P's take on the Wall of Pain characters, I think that Baz deals with them pretty well or at least not terribly. I usually kickback and build meter and once start making aggressive kicks hold your kick a little bit longer and try to land them on the ground.

    I don't think I've played a single Kenny online. And the mirror match suck balls but I usually end up playing it anyways.
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  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,904 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The Baz got some changes, click here: http://divekick.com/forum/index.php?topic=860.0
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  • Gunthor_the_PerilousGunthor_the_Perilous Joined: Posts: 4
    Sweet fucking lord, why?!
  • Ragnorok64Ragnorok64 My muscles have no memory. Joined: Posts: 4,947
    edited September 2013
    I haven't played him yet, since the changes. How bad is it?
  • Exodus.Exodus. Joined: Posts: 7,016
    Its not. I was barely aware of it last night. I realized I lost my meter after a KF but I thought it was a weird thing and not a change and still played fine.

    Don't rely on Kick Factor; use Shocker and try to find a use for Mighty Swing.

    => The only situation I've found Mighty Swing useful is when you and your opponent are in close proximity and jump at around the same time and don't kick on your way up. You can use Mighty Swing and catch them on their kick (because you float for a second). Anybody else have a decent MS tactic?
    gl hf dd ka.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    Exodus. wrote: »
    Anybody else have a decent MS tactic?

    If you think you'll catch your opponent off guard you can Mighty Swing after a Mighty Swing. That qualifies more as a gimmick/troll though, not really a consistent use.
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  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    Mighty Swing is garbage. It's too slow to ever catch a mindful opponent off-guard.

    For S-Kill, your only course of action is to try to cross-over kick him as he lands. Trying to cross him under often gets you killed because he can time his teleports to just avoid you then kick you.

    Once he has enough meter to do his Trick, look at nothing but his meter until he uses Trick, and STAY ON THE GROUND. As soon as the meter goes down, smash Shocker as fast as you can. If you're fast enough, this will kill S-Kill immediately. This essentially doesn't work online because latency makes you lose a frame or two, which is all you need to lose for this technique to not work.
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    edited September 2013
    I don't get why people are having such trouble with Redacted and Marn, though. They're amongst my easiest match-ups because they're so easy to intercept.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    edited September 2013
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    I don't get why people are having such trouble with Redacted and Marn, though. They're amongst my easiest match-ups because they're so easy to intercept.

    Can't Redacted react quickly enough to seeing your angle change (not just building meter anymore but going forward) with a dive->kick and catch you? This obviously depends a lot on spacing and both players' timing, just curious as to why they're such easy matchups for you.

    Also will Shocker hit S-Kill's trick if he doesn't kick afterwards?
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  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    1. They're easier characters to hit with Shocker and Mighty Swing (maybe the only two characters Mighty Swing is worth a damn on). They're also easier to cross over because their kicks angles makes them wary of getting hit before they can hit you.
    2. It SHOULD kill S-Kill because he is in range of the lightning bolt and will likely fall on Baz anyway. In most case, though, he just ends up kicking anyway, since pretty much every S-Kill mashes kick after Trick.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    edited September 2013
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    In most case, though, he just ends up kicking anyway, since pretty much every S-Kill mashes kick after Trick.

    Let me clarify that a bit. S-Kill can activate Trick during the startup of his second jump. If he does that, his second jump is used up and he automatically kicks can mash kick after Trick. He can also activate it raw after his first jump. This preserves his second teleport for after he's used Trick and allows him to move before kicking. The downside is you have to hit dive and kick on the same frame cause you can kara Trick from a dive/kick. If the Shocker's lightning bolt misses if done on reaction to Trick this matchup will get a lot worse for Baz because S-Kill isn't always locked into a kick after Trick.
    Post edited by RadicalFuzz on
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  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    I suppose you then need to keep in mind whether your opponent likes to mash Kick or not after Trick.

    I'll also add: a good trick when fighting against Redacted and Marn is to let go of Kick before you think you should. This keeps your kicks steeper and gives the opponent less real estate to intercept you.
  • RadicalFuzzRadicalFuzz Invading Pokopon's Courtrooms Joined: Posts: 4,795
    You also need to see if they used their second jump or not. If he hasn't S-Kill has access to his aerial movement options after Trick. Maybe not a big deal against Baz if Shocker hits him anyway.
    I am the one true frog.
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    I feel like Shocker would hit him anyway because there's start-up frames to each of S-Kill's teleports. I haven't tested it myself, though. This is all from playing S-Kills, and I've never met an S-Kill who didn't take his Trick as an opportunity for a kill, especially against Baz. Even when you're not playing online, Shocker is still not a completely reliable solution because you just might not be fast enough.
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