Divekick Angles, check it out!

King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
edited August 2013 in Divekick
Someone from an IRC chat posted this image:

qPlOTHh.jpg

EDIT: Chart now updated!
Post edited by King9999 on
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Comments

  • Sentient_KeyboardSentient_Keyboard Joined: Posts: 9
    Very useful. I could've sworn Redacted's divekick was steeper than Mr. N's.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yeeeeees. Now all I need is hitbox/hurtbox data. I swear lightning bolts go right through ppl's head sometimes and it doesn't hit.
  • ImmaculateImmaculate UltraBeard Joined: Posts: 650
    Doesn't markman also have an alternate kick?
  • Vlad7779311Vlad7779311 Joined: Posts: 374
    What about Uncle Sensei when he switches from 1 Divekick to the other?
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  • Riot55Riot55 King Scrub Joined: Posts: 840
    So who do you think is the best so far? I always seemed to get bodied by Markman.
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  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited August 2013
    Riot55 wrote: »
    So who do you think is the best so far? I always seemed to get bodied by Markman.
    Dr. Shoals. Her jump height, two radically different angles with the ability to switch whenever, quick and long range kickback, ability to cancel divekick into hover and then divekick again and her meter economy puts her at the top of the charts IMO.

    But I play The Baz, so...

  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,986 mod
    Hard to say who's "best" in a game where it seems we have rather hard counterpicks.
  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Markman gives me a lot of trouble. I haven't fought any Senseis.

    Some people seem to think S-Kill is one of the worst but I have a hard time believing it.
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  • Sentient_KeyboardSentient_Keyboard Joined: Posts: 9
    edited August 2013
    Immaculate wrote: »
    Doesn't markman also have an alternate kick?

    He does, but it has the same angle as his normal divekick, so it doesn't get listed.

    What about Uncle Sensei when he switches from 1 Divekick to the other?

    Those are already listed. He has a 25 degree kick and a 60 degree one, and he switches between those.
  • AlphaCommandoAlphaCommando Goten More Years Joined: Posts: 3,148
    Stream's angles are kind of inaccurate. Well when I say that, I actually mean the kick area in the graph is technically inaccurate.The lines would have to be rounded instead of straight.
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  • KorbidonKorbidon Who can stand against such abominations? Joined: Posts: 4,600
    King9999 wrote: »
    Markman gives me a lot of trouble. I haven't fought any Senseis.

    Some people seem to think S-Kill is one of the worst but I have a hard time believing it.

    I think S-Kill is top 3, if not the absolute best. He has good matchups against Shoals, Redacted and Baz, even with the others, and loses to Dive and Kick. Parry is amazing, trick is amazing, and Seth will fucking destroy you if you don't know the matchup.

    He is, without question, the worst character if you are playing online though.

  • Combo_KnightCombo_Knight DashUppah, Muhfuqqah! Joined: Posts: 5,313
    Man I be struggling as markman. I've just resorted to timing people out, because people like Mr.N just pull off these crazy hits. when i could have sworn my angling was legit, lol.
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  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    I like how incredibly extreme the Baz is. He is the most extreme of the intercepting characters, not only because of his obvious lightning kick design, but also because he has the lowest jump height in the game and his dependency on meter almost requires a meter gem.

    That being said, boy is he broken as hell if you use him right. SO MUCH INVINCIBILITY.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    That being said, boy is he broken as hell if you use him right.

    Please elaborate.
  • CryohCryoh Rock Shock Thunderous Beat Joined: Posts: 9,639
    Korbidon wrote: »
    King9999 wrote: »
    Markman gives me a lot of trouble. I haven't fought any Senseis.

    Some people seem to think S-Kill is one of the worst but I have a hard time believing it.

    I think S-Kill is top 3, if not the absolute best. He has good matchups against Shoals, Redacted and Baz, even with the others, and loses to Dive and Kick. Parry is amazing, trick is amazing, and Seth will fucking destroy you if you don't know the matchup.

    He is, without question, the worst character if you are playing online though.

    I still feel that S-Kill doesn't really win matches. It's more like his opponents hang themselves by overextending.
  • KorbidonKorbidon Who can stand against such abominations? Joined: Posts: 4,600
    Cryoh wrote: »
    Korbidon wrote: »
    King9999 wrote: »
    Markman gives me a lot of trouble. I haven't fought any Senseis.

    Some people seem to think S-Kill is one of the worst but I have a hard time believing it.

    I think S-Kill is top 3, if not the absolute best. He has good matchups against Shoals, Redacted and Baz, even with the others, and loses to Dive and Kick. Parry is amazing, trick is amazing, and Seth will fucking destroy you if you don't know the matchup.

    He is, without question, the worst character if you are playing online though.

    I still feel that S-Kill doesn't really win matches. It's more like his opponents hang themselves by overextending.

    I used to think so too, but when opponents start to turtle, making them respect Trick scares people.

  • CryohCryoh Rock Shock Thunderous Beat Joined: Posts: 9,639
    This is how I tend to handle the S-Kill matchup. I wait until he does any teleport, and then I'll go for a kick to land at where he would end up at after a instant dive teleport into a cancelled second teleport-kick. If I don't kill with my kick, then I immediately kickback and see what S-Kill does, since his pursuit abilities are very poor. If he lives to the point that he can threaten with Trick, then I try to stay horizontally mobile after his first jump, since I don't really want to lose a round to Trick gimmicks. That said, Trick costs more than 50% meter, so he's not going to win all five rounds with it. Shoot, even if S-Kill headshots you, he's not going to be able to get anything meaningful off of it.
  • KorbidonKorbidon Who can stand against such abominations? Joined: Posts: 4,600
    Generally if I land a headshot I use the time to build meter rather than approach.
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    edited August 2013
    Please elaborate.

    If you're gaining meter as much as you're supposed to be doing with the Baz, he's invincible so often. His Thunder Shield pretty much completely shuts down every approach strategy by the enemy, especially if you're holding the line. Skilled play can get you around two kills with every KickFactor. Against Kung Pao, MarkMan, and Jefailey, Baz's KickFactor is pretty much a guaranteed three rounds.

    His downsides are obvious. He can't really headshot (the Mighty Swing, frankly, kinda sucks other than as a surprise tactic, so it doesn't really count). It's INCREDIBLY dangerous for him to try setting up something at close-range. He's very meter dependent, so you kind of HAVE to use the meter gem. He has the lowest Dive, so escape options are limited to KickBacks, which don't work in the corner, and horizontal kicks to the other side, which are very dangerous. He also has the most to lose of any character in a concussion, so Dr. Shoals beats him. He also is bad against characters that can change/cancel their dive/kick momentum, so, again, Dr. Shoals beats him. Dr. Shoals is far from being an unwinnable match, though. It just requires much more patience than most other match-ups.

    But in exchange, he has the fastest kick in the game (aside from Kick's New Angle), probably the best KickFactor, a move that is essentially a better parry than S-Kill's parry, and variable kick angles. Even his Mighty Swing is variable, for what that's worth at this point in the game. Not to mention, two of his special abilities makes him completely invincible.

    In my opinion, the best characters in this game are going to be those who can abuse their ability to vary their Kick angles, and the Baz is one of them.

    Right now, though, I think Dr. Shoals might be the best character in the game, though I think that may change once people take advantage of Shoals' start-up frames for her second kick and people learn how to really use Uncle Sensei.
  • ElipsisElipsis God of Revenge Joined: Posts: 51
    Does S-Kill always teleport straight up? I feel like he can teleport up+forward, or maybe I'm imagining that?
    -...
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    Elipsis wrote: »
    Does S-Kill always teleport straight up? I feel like he can teleport up+forward, or maybe I'm imagining that?

    That's his Trick special ability. He teleports to right above and behind where you are.
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    The image in the OP just got pimped out severely...
    qPlOTHh.jpg
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  • PerthoPertho The Runed One Joined: Posts: 22,139 mod

    holy shit what? That's amazing. All we are missing is frame data. I know some of it but I'll wait 'til official stuff comes out.
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  • ThrowbackThrowback Joined: Posts: 59
    edited August 2013
    pretty sure the height for Stream is wrong in 2.0. With kickback he gets extremely high. Edit nvm just saw the fine print, ie (...except kickback and specials)

    What does A/G/KF in 'Meter build' mean? Afaik you only get meter from kicking and subsequently landing on the ground.
  • DaRabidDuckieDaRabidDuckie Happiest. Duck. Ever. Joined: Posts: 9,870 mod
    Throwback wrote: »
    What does A/G/KF in 'Meter build' mean? Afaik you only get meter from kicking and subsequently landing on the ground.
    It's the amount of times you need to kick before you are able to use your Air special, Ground special, or Kick Factor.

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  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    Huh...so...I guess the Baz gains almost nothing from a Style Gem? That's disappointing.
  • ThrowbackThrowback Joined: Posts: 59
    Assuming the chart's right, style gem is worthless on every character.
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    I wonder how much of a difference Dive and Kick gems make, then. Because now I'm wondering if pretty much all gems are worthless.
  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a difference Dive and Kick gems make, then. Because now I'm wondering if pretty much all gems are worthless.

    The numbers are there, just add 10%.

    I don't think they're worthless. As a Kung Pao player, the Dive gem helps me against some matchups, including Pao mirrors. The Kick gem gives me a little extra speed, which means the opponent has a bit less time to react. Then you have to consider kick factor, which gems give a boost to.
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  • dstlndstln Joined: Posts: 302
    edited August 2013
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a difference Dive and Kick gems make, then. Because now I'm wondering if pretty much all gems are worthless.

    You can see everything in the game in the .xml files. Fyi dive gives you a 6% multiplier, kick is 12%

    Edit: Actually those may be gems not actually active in the game though, not totally sure.
  • DRaGZDRaGZ Joined: Posts: 72
    what a mysterious game
  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    dstln wrote: »
    DRaGZ wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a difference Dive and Kick gems make, then. Because now I'm wondering if pretty much all gems are worthless.

    You can see everything in the game in the .xml files. Fyi dive gives you a 6% multiplier, kick is 12%

    Edit: Actually those may be gems not actually active in the game though, not totally sure.

    Could I trouble you for a copy of the XML files? I don't have the Steam version.
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