Hell yes!

JorantJorant Joined: Posts: 222
It's about time ST gets its own forum.

Let's talk tiers: Are there any? That's why I love the game so much. There's match ups, but not so much tiers. No more yun vs yun crap.

Where would you say Fei Long fits in? He's my fav... if there's tiers, where is this badass at?

Comments

  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    There's match ups, but not so much tiers.

    I don't think that's quite true. One look at N. 'Sim, Claw, or O. Sagat will tell you very clearly that tiers are present and accounted for in this game. It's just that you need to know the gameplan for every match-up beforehand, otherwise you're probably screwed. Low tier opponent or not.

    NKI posted this list a long time ago:
    Top tier:
    Boxer, Claw, O.Sagat, Sim

    Top of the middle tier:
    Dictator, Chun, Ryu, DeeJay

    Middle tier:
    Guile, N.Ken/O.Ken, Honda, Fei

    Low middle tier:
    Gief

    Bottom tier:
    Hawk, Blanka

    Low bottom tier:
    Cammy

    Honda is kind of weird because he gets slaughtered by anyone with a fireball
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    What does exactly Dic have/does that makes him a High Mid Chara?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Talking with Daigo, he thought:
    Chun and Sim are best
    Balrog is 3rd
    Ryu 4th

    I thought Sim would be up there but was suprised Daigo thought so highly of Chun. I actually think she is top tier too but it was suprising that he thought the same. Japan has alot more top level chun-li's, its hard to find many in the U.S. NKI is the only one I've met so far.

    - Alex
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Seriously, does Chun' even have any bad match-ups besides O. Sagat?
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Chun should struggle against a good ST ryu, o,ryu, o.ken. Fei can bash her up. But i don't think its so much do with her not having alot of good or bad matchups. Her tier place is more to do with her having lots of close matches. Most of her matches are probably 6-4, 5-5, 4-6.

    I'd slighty disagree with NKI on tier list, but the differences are minute.

    Top Tier
    Sim, Boxer, O.Sag,

    No doubt in my mind these 3 stand by above the rest.

    Upper Mid Tier
    Vega, Ryu, Dictator, Chun,

    Most Notable change here is Vega. While he is very good, being a poke machine with some insane skanks, that effectively all he is. He himself can get skanked pretty hard.

    Lower Mid Tier
    Honda, Deejay, Ken, Fei, Guile,

    Guess the big change here from NKI's is Deejay. I've failed too see any Deejay that can really hang with the best, even though i know hes got some nasty stuff. Since i don't know any deejay players, and from what i seen of jap match vids he hasn't be that impressive, i've put him in the lower mid.

    Bottom Tier
    Gief, Blanka, Hawk, Cammy

    I honstly don't think cammy is as bad as NKI makes out. Shes one of those characters which once she gets in, is extremely hard to shake off. Also her combos seem quite easy and very powerful off wake ups. Coupled with a massive DP type move, i think she can hang with the other lower tier characters.

    Even though there are tiers just like in any fighting game, i think the differences between the tiers are not as large as other fighters. Any character can compete. Yes you'll always see the top two tiers take the top spots at tournaments, but thats a hell alot more characters than some other games. And its not as rare as other fighters to see even lower tier and bottom tier characters make an appearence in the top spots.
  • JorantJorant Joined: Posts: 222
    See, T Hawk and Blanka at the bottom really makes me scratch my head. I've seen some T.Hawk, in particular, just destroy people. Real lock down shit. I just don't see this as I do Third Strike where only a few characters are worth even thinking about in a tourney.
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    i was talking to graham about chun-li in irc 2 days ago, he thinks shes very good also, but loses to ryu which is why he doesnt think she is extremely good. in his opinion, a character must do well against ryu to be top tier, which is why he thinks o sagat/ boxer/sim are top.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I've seen some T.Hawk, in particular, just destroy people.

    And I've seen Yamazaki almost wreck Nuki with Twelve. It happens.
    Blanka's ball is punishable even when it hits against some characters.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • afro legendsafro legends Pugilist Specialist Joined: Posts: 256
    Guess the big change here from NKI's is Deejay. I've failed too see any Deejay that can really hang with the best, even though i know hes got some nasty stuff. Since i don't know any deejay players, and from what i seen of jap match vids he hasn't be that impressive, i've put him in the lower mid.

    In my opinion, I think DJ can be very good under the right hands.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Yeah...AFRO LEGENDS' hands...
    :lovin:

    For real though, I think DeeJay is really under-estimated...
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Play DGV on kaillera or zbattle for a quick demonstration of why Deejay is nasty.
    He's not even his best character or anything either, but the guy can literally fireball zone most people to death. His slide and standing RH don't make things any easier either.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Deejay is definantly underestimated!

    His normals are hella good....

    and he got sum funky tricks in the right hands
  • JorantJorant Joined: Posts: 222
    Can someone explain the timing on his machine gun punch? I can never seem to get them out. The faster you hit the button the more delayed it is? I don't get it.
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    Although i got this game 2 days ago with only 100 matches on xbl i can say without a doubt deejay is at least middle tier cuz he's very good but in an unconventional way his fireballs+slide=gg and up close i find it hard to anticiipate the rapid punch it jus comes outta nowhere.

    Heres my tier list although i'm prolly way off on some of these cuz i'm basing this out of the little bit of personal experiance i have and watching "rythm n funk" who taught me to play. (he used to be 19th but dropped to 40 since he had to sell SFAC to get 360 LOL)

    top tier
    guile/bison/balrog/sim

    upper-mid
    sag/ryu/vega/chun

    mid
    ken/dj/fei

    lower-mid
    cam/geif/honda

    bottom
    bla/hawk



    Personally i use ce sag but i get raped by all the ce guile users.

    Although i rape rog with my sag rog is a beast cuz his charge punch followed by 2 fierce punches =hella block damage.

    I think guile is by far the best cuz his combos which take advantage of the 0 recovery time of sonic boom are fuckin insane.

    I think ken deserves more credit especially since turbo ken dizzys the opponent very very quickly and has a nasty crossup also when his st. m punch is chained into fierce uppercut it takes half life AND dizzys instantly sometimes.

    What i truely love about the game is that even though some chars are clearly better then others anyone can still beat anyone cuz all the moves to so much damage.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    What you've got there is an AE tier list. I don't know if that's what the OP was asking for.
    I don't know how much the opinion of a guy who actively plays Marvel Nemesis is really worth either.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    In my opinion, I think DJ can be very good under the right hands.

    I beat Daigo's Balrog with my DJ. Dj is dam good.

    - Alex
  • JorantJorant Joined: Posts: 222
    Machine gun punch? Anyone tell me how to do it effectively (all the hits?) :sweat:
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Machine gun punch? Anyone tell me how to do it effectively (all the hits?) :sweat:

    After you start it, mash ALL THREE PUNCHES as fast as you can. Right when the third hit connects, stop mashing. That's the way I get it to land most often.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Machine gun punch? Anyone tell me how to do it effectively (all the hits?) :sweat:

    Actually it's a rythym move. Ask Jason Cole how its done, only person I've seen that can do it right. :wgrin:
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    I can confirm that Chen's method works. You have to STOP mashing to make the fourth hit combo.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    What does exactly Dic have/does that makes him a High Mid Chara?

    ???
    PLZ?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Dic is an upper tier character, and looking at him on a technical level could be top tier in some players eyes.

    Without going into too much detail though, i'll give you a list of things which support him being a higher tier character.
    1. Does alot of damage
    2. Can punish mistakes very easily, even at long range.
    3. Very mobile, big long jump good for crossups, aswell as escape danger and a very fast walk speed
    4. Great throw, easy to tick into, good options after, even if they tech.
    5. hard hitting combos, all his practical combos do alot of damage. His TOD (touch of death; combo that dizzies and leaves opponent with less than 50% health. All you have to do then is repeat that combo to kill your opponent) is also one of the easiest to do in the game.
    6. Good air moves. His jumping MK and HK crossup for good combos and tick throws. His Jump straight up MK/HK and jumping MP (which juggles; also possible to combo with super) a great air move, beating lots of stuff in the air serving as a great anti-air move.
    7. Good block strings, you can really put on alot of pressure on some characters with some inventive block strings.
    8. Corner tricks, such as 1 hit crossup crusher, ambigous crossup slide after throw, and a cheeky jumping mk overhead.
    9. Very good super, extremely fast which can easily punish fireballs, act as a reversal, and can be juggled after with jumping MP for 2 extra hits

    Theres prob more reasons, but thats the basics of why hes considered by many to be that good. Theres no doubt in my mind being a Dic player, he be top tier if he had reversal or even a larger selection of anti-air moves
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