Guile thread

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  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Hahahaha.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    ^^^ It's true. When pasky plays, he does a reach around with his right hand on the stick and his left on the buttons. He told me he could play normally, but he just likes reaching around things to hold the stick. Hey, what ever works right?
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • MarsflashMarsflash BGG BITCHES!! Joined: Posts: 401


    Watch out for this guy on supercade, he is just plain nasty. Hope you guys enjoy this set as much as i did watching it.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Love the Ryu-Guile dynamic of course, I could watch this matchup all day. Surprised to see you using ST Guile. Great gameplay from both, so many close rounds.
    ...
    Haha, damn you paid for dropping the Muteki Special.
    ...
    Ooh, jab jab kara super!
    ...
    Oh there's the CE Guile, and out comes CE Ryu, just going back in time.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Kurahashi uses the standing hit recovery into flash kick trick here (fHZWfSi7g1E at YT, 22:50). How exactly is this done? I remember some explanation in NH2's blog but I am not sure if I could get it right.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    For some reason, Guile has a standing hit animation when you charge db and then move to df on impact. So, charge db, df right when the jump-in hits, then up + kick.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    Nice set Mars. Any reason why you chose to play AE over regular ST?

    Also, why do you dislike the Ryu v.Guile? I think it's one of the best matches in the game. CE/HF Ryu can be more of a pain though :(
  • MarsflashMarsflash BGG BITCHES!! Joined: Posts: 401


    Little nice set here as well. Check out Doc Holliday on supercade. Solid DJ.
  • MarsflashMarsflash BGG BITCHES!! Joined: Posts: 401
    I like the varity of character versions in the game. Also to note, a lot less trolls. As for ryu vs guile, It just feels ryu has an unlimited arsonal and guile just feels so limited. If when using other versions of guile, it feels more in ryus favor just because of the tick throw setups and safe jump. Just my opinion.
  • ANaqviANaqvi Joined: Posts: 83
    I like the varity of character versions in the game. Also to note, a lot less trolls. As for ryu vs guile, It just feels ryu has an unlimited arsonal and guile just feels so limited. If when using other versions of guile, it feels more in ryus favor just because of the tick throw setups and safe jump. Just my opinion.
    I've always wondered about the ce guile ce ryu match. On knockdown ryu can def safe jump and mixup/tick throw all day long and the odds are in his favor then, but ce guile has insane recovery and so much range. I know he's kurahashi, but he had little trouble beating down everyone with ce guile in a big ae tourney in japan.
    shotosallday
    Outturtled
    Bach
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    I like the varity of character versions in the game. Also to note, a lot less trolls. As for ryu vs guile, It just feels ryu has an unlimited arsonal and guile just feels so limited. If when using other versions of guile, it feels more in ryus favor just because of the tick throw setups and safe jump. Just my opinion.

    True, but you just sort of learn to ignore the trolls and focus on the game. It's good advice for learning to deal with the internet in general.

    Personally, I love the match-up, it feels good going up against good Ryu players and winning out in a couple games. Although I suspect it may be because they don't really know the matchup.

    I know what you mean about tick throw setups. It's very frustrating to deal with, but I just write it off as my own fault, since Ryu shouldn't be able to knock me down anyway. shotosallday abuses tick throws like mad, and so far, he's the only Ryu player to consistently beat my O.Guile.
    I've always wondered about the ce guile ce ryu match. On knockdown ryu can def safe jump and mixup/tick throw all day long and the odds are in his favor then, but ce guile has insane recovery and so much range. I know he's kurahashi, but he had little trouble beating down everyone with ce guile in a big ae tourney in japan.

    I think CE guile is the best version of him. That being said, he's still susceptible to tick throws. Best strategy for Guile is to play conservative, land damage whenever you can, try your best to look for either clean or trade on the anti-airs, and stay on your feet.

    CE Ryu is harder to deal with than ST Ryu imo. His recover on the fireball is so fast, his invulerable tatsu is difficult to punish without risk of getting knocked down and trading unfavorably. His normals are better as well.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Anyone care to ramble about character-specific strategies? I'm not an expert yet but I guess that's more the reason to have people look at my approaches. I guess I'll start w/Chun.

    Opening moves
    Down-back
    This is my default unless I notice the Chun player always opens with fireball because I hate being jumped on over a boom at round start. That usually leads to knockdown and closeup game that is so bad against Chun. The best-case to worst-case follow-up scenarios:
    1. Chun jumps into a flash kick.
    2. Chun jumps back. I think you might be able to get her to land on a strong or fierce boom on reaction, but I'm not sure about this.
    3. Chun walks back to build meter with kikokens. Sonic boom and push her towards the corner as soon as she's out of jump-in range.
    4. Stuff or retreat from a walkup attack/throw. Back sobat is usually best for this. It beats/avoids low attacks and her standing strong, it keeps a healthy distance and avoids being stuck in block when it whiffs, it recovers in time for anti-air normals on whiff, it works as an anti-air normal, and it keeps a sonic boom charge. You lose positional advantage doing this though, which is why I rated it low.
    5. Reaction sonic boom against a kikoken for fireball cancel, or Chun sits in down-back, and the midrange footsies begins.
    Sonic Boom
    This is my go to if I notice Chun is trigger happy on fireball openings. Best- to worst-case follow-up scenarios:
    1. Chun jumps back and lands on the sonic boom. She takes damage, you get a knockdown and positional advantage. Not sure which strength is optimal for her to land on the boom.
    2. Chun fireballs and eats a backfist.
    3. Chun walks forward and takes the boom.
    4. Chun takes chip damage and you gain positional advantage. I think I would follow up with st. Roundhouse while she's in blockstun, maybe even whiffed bazooka knee into a poke if I'm feeling sassy.
    5. Chun jumps in and gets a combo/knockdown/positional advantage. I hate this so much.
    Kara forward sobat flash kick
    Always highly risky and to be used sparingly of course, always fun when it works and you clip them with the edge over a kikoken. I wouldn't do this if I'm playing to win. The best- and worst-case scenarios should be obvious.

    Hmm, time to do some actual work. Feedback would be nice, I might add close, midrange, long-range, and corner game too eventually.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    snip
    If Chun jumps, Guile may try immediate st.Strong, if the far version is still in range; late cr.Fierce, for a trade; early cr.Fierce, for force her to use early head stomp, or late close st.Fwd, to force her to use an early head stomp. These were things Muteki used when fignting Chuns who would jump from mid range.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Ah yes, those are the go-to anti-airs. They are so hard to do, but so necessary. I've personally found this fight is better standing and using knee bazooka/st. roundhouse/sobats to control spacing because close and mid-close range game sucks and downback means it's easy for her to walk into a bad range. But then standing leaves me without the flash kick, so I have to struggle with constantly thinking about whether I'm in far strong, close forward, or back sobat range. I don't really like cr. fierce actually because it gets stuffed so easily by Chun's j. forward. It works on occasion but not reliable enough where I would use it on purpose, I only use it out of habit.

    Respect to anyone who can time far strong reliably, even more respect to the Guile players who can give up charge for a neutral close forward, and serious respect to those who know the ranges for the two. I admire this more than any flashy combo honestly, and it's funny to get excited over an anti-air normal when nobody else seems to care.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    The key to this matchup is knowing how to maintain your spacing so that you're in a position to anti-air. As O.Guile, the ones I use primarily are

    1) Trade cr.fierce, but it only works at certain ranges, and I haven't locked down exactly why it sometimes trades, and why it gets beat clean by j.forward.

    2) St.jab at max range. It beats her j.forward clean, at ranges where going for a trip guard low attack will get stuffed if she times it late.

    3) St.forward. Pretty difficult anti-air to use, due to its proximity restrictions. It's indispensable when doing Guile's corner trap against Chun (Shout out to Watson for showing me this). It's not a virtual lock, but as as long as your execution and spacing is on point, she HAS to take damage from the trap at some point.

    4) Walk under and cl.fierce, st.jab, cr.jab. This is pretty difficult to utilize correctly, but it's a deadly tool for Guile. Due to the floatiness of her jump, at close/mid-range, you can react to her jump in by walking forward and landing one of these. The cl.fierce seems more difficult to pull off than the jabs, but obviously a higher damage reward, which is a must in this matchup.

    Much like any other match, this is all about the lifelead, learning to maintain it, and protecting your zone in order to keep away from her annoyingly fast and prioritized low attacks and jump-ins. At mid-range, if you throw a slow sonic boom, it will trade with her super. I use this move all the time, and Chun players seem surprised when I can pull it off consistently. I will gladly trade a bit of life to diffuse the super any day of the week.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    A couple of good examples of using the far Strong as anti-air, and the walk-under close Fierce:
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    Nice video example. Daigo does a great job staying at ranges where he's able to punish Chun's kikoken, while leaving himself mobile in order to walk under and anti-air her.

    Also an example of how NOT to play against Guile when you're a Chun player. Chun has to learn to play defensively and build meter. Guile is supposed to attack her, not the other way around. Once Chun builds meter, it completely reverses the momentum of the match.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I believe videos of good players against bad ones are interesting, since you see them dealing with things good players rarely do, since they know it can be countered. For instance: I watched a bunch of Otochun vs Muteki matches and Otochun would only jump-in when he got a knockdown. And we know it isn't that easy for Guile to punish Chun's air shit. But Muteki is "above average", LOL.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    I believe videos of good players against bad ones are interesting, since you see them dealing with things good players rarely do, since they know it can be countered. For instance: I watched a bunch of Otochun vs Muteki matches and Otochun would only jump-in when he got a knockdown. And we know it isn't that easy for Guile to punish Chun's air shit. But Muteki is "above average", LOL.

    Oh I also believe that you can learn from watching any match, since it's important to learn how to deal with a variety of playstyles. For example, player A may not be as good as player B, but if player A starts to play the matchup in an unorthodox style, and B isn't ready for it and can't adapt, he could very likely lose.

    Anyways. Guile v. Chun. It's still good for Chun, rough for Guile. I'd say its 6-4, or 6.5.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Bad vs. Good matches are great for watching for the reasons oldschool mentioned. I'll occasionally play someone that doesn't really play the game and then I get caught off guard by something because it's totally not in the 'matchup handbook.' There's a lot of 'don't do this' but sometimes hard to see why unless the other person knows a counter.

    Close range game
    I usually try to avoid close range vs Chun with back sobat and jumping back, but sometimes shit just happens and I end up in the corner. I usually mash on db. + jab + strong, so strong will soften the throw but jab will come out due to the way inputs are read and I'll also be charged up to get my distance back. That's pretty much all I got. Block/mash/soften until I land a jab into some pokes, maybe gamble on occasional reversal if they're getting to aggressive. Maybe try a crossup. No idea though if she's got super. I usually just get tossed silly in close range when Chun has super.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    Bad vs. Good matches are great for watching for the reasons oldschool mentioned. I'll occasionally play someone that doesn't really play the game and then I get caught off guard by something because it's totally not in the 'matchup handbook.' There's a lot of 'don't do this' but sometimes hard to see why unless the other person knows a counter.

    Close range game
    I usually try to avoid close range vs Chun with back sobat and jumping back, but sometimes shit just happens and I end up in the corner. I usually mash on db. + jab + strong, so strong will soften the throw but jab will come out due to the way inputs are read and I'll also be charged up to get my distance back. That's pretty much all I got. Block/mash/soften until I land a jab into some pokes, maybe gamble on occasional reversal if they're getting to aggressive. Maybe try a crossup. No idea though if she's got super. I usually just get tossed silly in close range when Chun has super.

    If you're in the corner, you can also try st.lk, cr.lk to fend off her advance. You can also go for nj.roundhouse or nj.fierce. That usually tends to confuse Chun players, since they rarely see Guiles doing that, and nj.fierce is pretty damn good air-to-ground attack.

    If Chun gets the super while she's close to you, it's pretty damn difficult to avoid damage. Most of the time though, she lands super at mid-to-far range, which gives you an opportunity to just throw a jab sonic boom. Her only options, if she wants to avoid damage or chip, is to match it with her own fireball, jump towards you to gain some distance, or neutral jump. At least in this situation, it makes her more predictable, and thus easier to counter.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    If you're in the corner, you can also try st.lk, cr.lk to fend off her advance. You can also go for nj.roundhouse or nj.fierce. That usually tends to confuse Chun players, since they rarely see Guiles doing that, and nj.fierce is pretty damn good air-to-ground attack.

    I love nj. fierce! It is so good, I think of it as an anti-ground. I use it a lot in matchups like rog or blanka, but I have never thought to do it against Chun. I'll have to try that one.
    If Chun gets the super while she's close to you, it's pretty damn difficult to avoid damage. Most of the time though, she lands super at mid-to-far range, which gives you an opportunity to just throw a jab sonic boom. Her only options, if she wants to avoid damage or chip, is to match it with her own fireball, jump towards you to gain some distance, or neutral jump. At least in this situation, it makes her more predictable, and thus easier to counter.

    I guess in close range super situations, runaway then jab booms are the answer then, and if you run out of room to runaway and she closes in, crossup is your only hope out of the corner lest you try to soften a throw that turned out to be a super.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    I love nj. fierce! It is so good, I think of it as an anti-ground. I use it a lot in matchups like rog or blanka, but I have never thought to do it against Chun. I'll have to try that one.

    I guess in close range super situations, runaway then jab booms are the answer then, and if you run out of room to runaway and she closes in, crossup is your only hope out of the corner lest you try to soften a throw that turned out to be a super.

    nj.fierce and roundhouse is also extremely useful vs. Sagats. It does a very good job of hitting his limbs, or his face. If you space it out properly, his only counter options are walk-up st.strong, st.fierce, or st.roundhouse. All these options which seem to lose or trade with nj.fierce. If you're slightly out of range for a fierce, a roundhouse does a pretty good job of hitting his limbs too. I can't recall if the kick is able to hit his low tigers, I remember it does in HF.

    You can go for the the cross-up, since it's not much better than any of Guile's options at close ranges, especially in the corner. Good Chuns can go for jumping anti-airs, or walk-under anti-airs, but at least it takes her super charge away. I usually hope they walk-under and reset me in the air, so that I have a fighting chance of escaping. If they decide to charge the super, they have to be willing to let you escape, if they push forward for the attack, at least you know you won't be eating a 50% super.

    Walking backwards and doing sobat seems to be an effective tool against Chun. It's pretty difficult to flash kick chun li when she does a max-range meaty cr.forward. I normally try to go for it after the meaty attack, or the follow-up attack, since that's when Chun's usually go for the throw or walk forward strong.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Walking backwards and doing sobat seems to be an effective tool against Chun. It's pretty difficult to flash kick chun li when she does a max-range meaty cr.forward. I normally try to go for it after the meaty attack, or the follow-up attack, since that's when Chun's usually go for the throw or walk forward strong.

    Midrange without charge for a boom and after having applied pressure, this is my definite go-to. I think a good midrange dynamic is what makes ST fun for me, so close range/super difficulties aside, this is why I really like this matchup. Aside from the flashkick anti-air or reversal to crossup, this is pretty much where I'm getting most of my damage, and it's almost always get in, get out.

    Midrange:
    -Sonic boom cancel kikouken to backfist.
    -Forward sobat to backward sobat. Low forward is pretty much outclassed by Chun's low forward and roundhouse, so it's not as useful in the midrange as against other characters. It's not even one of those things where it's punishable so much as flat out not working unless she's walking or something. But forward sobat goes right over her low attacks with the right distance/timing, and back sobat will catch her a 2nd time if she tries to sweep your recovery or something. I usually vary the number of forward sobats between 1 and 2.
    -St. Roundhouse - good when Chun is at a whiff range. I am finding that the ideal distance for this is further than one would think, like the move should only hit if the opponent is moving forward and whiff otherwise.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • MarsflashMarsflash BGG BITCHES!! Joined: Posts: 401


    Little Combo Vid i wanted to finish up. Enjoy.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Good shit! Sigel, rep Philly, land of Boxers and Guiles!
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • jludtkjludtk Joined: Posts: 163
    any utility for st fierce and cl roundhouse? i never see people using those normals, the st fierce doesnt have range, it can be used as a anti air? and cl rh?? i NEVER see that normal in a match
    My Totem is too cheap for your desperate fighting Techniques!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    any utility for st fierce and cl roundhouse? i never see people using those normals, the st fierce doesnt have range, it can be used as a anti air? and cl rh?? i NEVER see that normal in a match

    st.fierce can actually be used in combos, as well as anti-airs. For example, in the Chun matchup, there's a certain close range where you can react to Chun's jump attack by walking under her, and landing a st.jab, st.strong, or st.fierce. All 3 work, but obviously fierce is preferred for its damage, but it's easier to land the st.jab in comparison, it really depends on how good your AAs are.

    You can also use st.fierce in combos. For punish or a dizzy combo, j.RH, st.fierce xx flashkick. Or in the corner against certain characters, you can do the 4 fierce combo. j.fierce, st.fierce, fierce sonic boom, backfist.
  • jludtkjludtk Joined: Posts: 163
    st.fierce can actually be used in combos, as well as anti-airs. For example, in the Chun matchup, there's a certain close range where you can react to Chun's jump attack by walking under her, and landing a st.jab, st.strong, or st.fierce. All 3 work, but obviously fierce is preferred for its damage, but it's easier to land the st.jab in comparison, it really depends on how good your AAs are.

    You can also use st.fierce in combos. For punish or a dizzy combo, j.RH, st.fierce xx flashkick. Or in the corner against certain characters, you can do the 4 fierce combo. j.fierce, st.fierce, fierce sonic boom, backfist.

    i think you talking about that version
    1_cr.jpg

    im talking about that

    1_cr.jpg

    and nobody use this

    3_cr.jpg
    My Totem is too cheap for your desperate fighting Techniques!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    i think you talking about that version
    1_cr.jpg

    im talking about that

    1_cr.jpg

    and nobody use this

    3_cr.jpg

    Thanks for the clarification. That version of st.fierce can also be used as an anti-air, especially against jump-in attacks such as Honda's j.forward. Personally, I prefer to use the st.jab, since it has better priority, a reduced extention on the blue-box, and the entire arm is invincible. It's sort of a personal preference kind of thing, some Guiles will use it every so often, other Guiles NEVER use it, just depends on how you play and what you're comfortable with.

    St.roundhouse is pretty useless. Based on hit box overlays, it MIGHT be used as an anti-air, but it's far too low, and comes out at a weird angle to be properly used against close jump ins. At any range where an opponent is jumping directly over me, I prefer to use st.forward, which I also realize is a strange anti air that many Guiles don't use, but I love it.

    But I like using st.roundhouse to kill off characters. Like if they're stunned, and only have a few pixels of health left, I either do a j.roundhouse x st.roundhouse, or just walk up and do st.roundhouse. It looks pretty funny, because nobody ever sees Guile using it.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    close st. roundhouse is pimp for stopping people from constantly neutral jumping; just walk close enough and make them take the boot up their ass.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229

    im talking about that

    1_cr.jpg

    See 4:30-4:40 of the youtube clip. Kikai uses it in the corner trap vs. Dic. First time he whiffs but it gives him time to charge while remaining up close and the second time it stuffs a scissor kick. It might randomly serve as a "faux option select" as well in case dic tries to jump in and get aa by far or close hp, not sure on that theory fighting though.
    and nobody use this

    3_cr.jpg
    close st. roundhouse is pimp for stopping people from constantly neutral jumping; just walk close enough and make them take the boot up their ass.

    See 4:17 of the youtube clip. It trades in Guile's favor.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    See 4:30-4:40 of the youtube clip. Kikai uses it in the corner trap vs. Dic. First time he whiffs but it gives him time to charge while remaining up close and the second time it stuffs a scissor kick. It might randomly serve as a "faux option select" as well in case dic tries to jump in and get aa by far or close hp, not sure on that theory fighting though.

    See 4:17 of the youtube clip. It trades in Guile's favor.

    Good video examples Family. I didn't know about that variation of the Guile trap against Dic. If you get predictable with it, would Dic be able to just scissor its recovery? Or would he get stuffed by a follow-up st.jab from Guile?

    I didn't know people used his cl.st.roundhouse. Normally I'd opt for the trade on backfist, or go for a cr.forward or cr.roundhouse to land damage to punish neutral jumps.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Good video examples Family. I didn't know about that variation of the Guile trap against Dic. If you get predictable with it, would Dic be able to just scissor its recovery? Or would he get stuffed by a follow-up st.jab from Guile?

    I didn't know people used his cl.st.roundhouse. Normally I'd opt for the trade on backfist, or go for a cr.forward or cr.roundhouse to land damage to punish neutral jumps.

    Thanks, I love Kikai's corner trap. I'm not sure about the recovery, but I assume so. Looking at the frame data, 10 frames recovery on the fierce vs. 8 frames startup on scissor kick. It would require good read/timing on Dic's part. It looks like if you make contact with it, though, there's frame trap potential.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    it's a preparation move. works good against ryus that try to hurricane over booms at a certain range too.
  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,570
    How do I deal with Hurricane kick happy Ryus? Seems like they can just keep doing it over and again with no risk as it goes through booms, has a fat hitbox and guile has no ways to punish it upon recovery. You dont often have enough charge to flash kick it, when you crouch to avoid it.

    Seems like you have to resort to using neutral j.hp on a pre emptive neutral jump to punish it. Feels kinda risky to me though because if you guess wrong, Ryu can throw a fast fireball that will hit you out of your jump if they dont go the hurricane kick route.
    Slow and steady wins the race
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    How do I deal with Hurricane kick happy Ryus? Seems like they can just keep doing it over and again with no risk as it goes through booms, has a fat hitbox and guile has no ways to punish it upon recovery. You dont often have enough charge to flash kick it, when you crouch to avoid it.

    Seems like you have to resort to using neutral j.hp on a pre emptive neutral jump to punish it. Feels kinda risky to me though because if you guess wrong, Ryu can throw a fast fireball that will hit you out of your jump if they dont go the hurricane kick route.

    You have a variety of options. Realize that Ryu can only hit you with a tatsu by either doing it on reaction at the sweep range, or on a guess at ranges slightly further than that. His tatsu's hitbox alternates from front-to-back, so knowing this, there are brief moments during his spin where he's vulnerable to counterattack, but this is often very difficult to time properly.

    At far distances, you can do an early jump attack to punish, nj.fierce, or backfist. One of the most reliable options would be to flash kick if you have the charge. The other reliable option, if he's doing the roundhouse version of tatsu, is to block spin kick standing, then duck and do a cr.fierce or cl.st.fierce. This helps you time your counterattack for when his leg is swinging behind him, and not towards you. Once he passes over you, your usual options are to do a cl.st.fierce, backfist at long range, or just let him move past you while you jump away and get better positioning.

    If he recovers directly in front of you, it's usually best to hit him with a cr.strong or cr.jab while he's landing. This hits him while he's in midair, which pushes him away, and allows you throw a sonic boom for chip. Low pokes are usually beaten by uppercuts when Ryu lands, since most Ryus love to either uppercut after a spin kick, throw, or low poke into mix-up.

    Generally, this matchup is fairly even at the start of the round, but once Ryu gets super, it tilts in his favor. Overall, I consider it 6-4 Ryu, but a fundamentally-rooted and surgical Guile will be pretty adept at picking his spots to attack, defend, and retreat.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Guile's donkey kick is much safer than bazooka knee for advancing with charge when fighting shotos - specially Ryu. The latter will eat random scrub tatsus that donkey kicks would not. Keep that in mind when throwing your booms, from any range but full screen.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Guile's donkey kick is much safer than bazooka knee for advancing with charge when fighting shotos - specially Ryu. The latter will eat random scrub tatsus that donkey kicks would not. Keep that in mind when throwing your booms, from any range but full screen.
    Some very good anti-shoto Guile play in this shoto-Guile-only tournament:
    http://ja.twitch.tv/shattlu_tv/b/348473331
    The tournament starts around 0:50 or the like in the video.

  • KyouyaKyouya SSF2T Joined: Posts: 173


    16:38, 16:58, etc.

    Respectig the "sonic kick", after watching Muteki and then Mor guile do it, i think that the fastest way posible to do it after a sonic boom, is moving the stick to df after the f+p, if you're using a japanese stick with square gate, thats the less road traveled, then you can just do a half circle back to return to db and charge for another sonic boom, and you already have the flash kick.

    With the amount of time practicing it i assure you it's super fast, personally i don't use it with dictator but if i were a guile player, i'll do it.

    Of course if you're planing to do sonic boom after sonic boom the old method is faster.
    Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    so simple and so brilliant
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    that changes the hawk matchup big time.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • fakeakagifakeakagi Joined: Posts: 117
    Is there any thing guile can do to beat chun's head stomp or should you just block high?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    fakeakagi wrote: »
    Is there any thing guile can do to beat chun's head stomp or should you just block high?

    Depends on the spacing and timing. Typically if she's directly above your head, I use cl.st.mk. Very underrated move that works pretty well against Chun. Best option is to walk past her and do cl.st.fierce for max damage punish. Alternatively, you can do cl.st.strong for better frame advantage at the expense of damage.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Chun-Li_(ST)#Command_Normals

    Shit has priority over pretty much anything in the game that's not invulnerable. Eltrouble's advice is good since that move can beat or trade with several aerial attacks, but odds are you will be hit by Chun's head stomp if she goes for that, and it's a very bad idea to just block every jump-in of Chun's, since then you will be vulnerable to throws and combos as she lands.

    If you are not cornered, you can hit her from behind after the head stomp.
  • fakeakagifakeakagi Joined: Posts: 117
    Thanks, I have a lot of trouble with that match up. More so than O Sagat or Claw for whatever reason. She is just so fast and her normals are so good.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    fakeakagi wrote: »
    Thanks, I have a lot of trouble with that match up. More so than O Sagat or Claw for whatever reason. She is just so fast and her normals are so good.

    A lot of it is knowing what ranges you want to keep yourself at. At far distances, you can actually trade cr.fierce with her jump attacks and it'll trade in your favor. At medium range distance, she has a bit of an advantage. She can jump over your sonic boom on reaction and beat a lot of your standard anti-airs clean, which lets to putting you in a mixup situation against Chun's pressure. This is never a good thing. Closer than that, you force her to either use fireballs or walk forward to close the gap. You can match fireballs to maintan neutral frame advantage, or she throws a really late fireball to match yours, you can follow up with a backfist. This is the perfect range to be at, since if she jumps, if you have fast reactions, you're actually able to walk underneath her and hit her from the other side. This is a pretty crucial skill that I don't see a lot of Guiles doing.

    God help you if you fight a Chun who actually knows how to properly turtle and build up meter asap. Then it comes a headache.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It is a good idea to study Muteki, Kotaka Shoten and Kurahashi. They have very good anti-Chun game. Check how they use the sobat kick in several ways that give Chun trouble, and the use of far.strong against jump-ins from a certain distance. Guile demands a very deep distance awareness in this match-up, but he can play against Chun.

    Mars also has experience against her, since he used to play a lot against Chris "Techmonkey" Doyle.
  • fakeakagifakeakagi Joined: Posts: 117
    I've been watching a lot of Muteki stuff, he is a great player. I guess I just have trouble implementing some of the stuff I see/read. I have a bad tendency to try to flash kick the headstomp since it beats almost every other jump-in in the game, really bad habit for that match though. I think I just need more experience, there aren't too many good chun players on ggpo that I have seen except for CUPYAKISOBA who is a really good Japanese player.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,708
    fakeakagi wrote: »
    I've been watching a lot of Muteki stuff, he is a great player. I guess I just have trouble implementing some of the stuff I see/read. I have a bad tendency to try to flash kick the headstomp since it beats almost every other jump-in in the game, really bad habit for that match though. I think I just need more experience, there aren't too many good chun players on ggpo that I have seen except for CUPYAKISOBA who is a really good Japanese player.

    Flash kick should beat the head stomp if properly timed. The key is to do it late, so that Guile is invulnerable during her attack. In either case, it's another reason that walk-under anti-airs should be used. She has no counter for it if you get the spacing right.

    There are plenty of decent Chun players on ggpo. Llamah and Unessential are fairly solid players that should give you good practice.
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