Guile thread

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  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    Even if you miss the airthrow when using j.fierce you'll still slap the bitch out of it
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  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    Alright, here's a question:

    How exactly do you do airthrows? They seem super unreliable to me. Of course in most situations it doesnt matter so much cause you hit them out of the air anyway, but still, it would be nice to know..

    Do you have to be at the same horizontal level as your opponent to airthrow, or some radial distance from them, or what? Can you airthrow arbitrarily close to the ground? Is there a difference in range between punch and kick airthrows? The kick one does more damage.

    Here's a good excersize: Set up a dummy to jump straight up over and over, and try to airthrow them in different ways, with different timings. Try to airthrow them as soon as you can after leaving the ground... I find this basically never works for me.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I was looking at your airthrow question, and I think I've noticed something important with the way they work, namely:

    -The punch airthrow only seems to work when you're below your opponent.
    -The kick airthrow only seems to when you're above your opponent.

    I'll try to answer the other details on this issue when I can.
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    The punch throw has more range if I'm not mistaken, but the kick throw does SPD levels of pain.
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  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169
    i was able to do a kick air throw when the guy was above me
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Can I get tips on playing against DJ, I have no clue how to play against him with Guile.
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    This has to be one of the best threads on the ST forum! Wow to the Guile players!
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  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    Here's how I fight DJ:

    Throw endless fierce sonic booms. Use back sobat kick and back roundhouse to try to keep yourself in a range such that if he jumps towards you, you can make him land on a low forward. If he jumps from closer, deep low fierce for the trade as usual. If you get a knockdown, dont bother with crossups, as I believe he can make them whiff by ducking. (I think the range you need to use to cross him up when hes standing will whiff if he ducks). I just follow a slow sonic boom and do low strong, low forward, sometimes throwing. Thanks to Raisin for the tip that low strong has to be blocked low by DJ!

    If you get to a range where standing short just slightly whiffs, AFAIK it beats every move DJ has. So just mash on it until he gets hit cause I think he has to lol.

    If youre both throwing endless fireballs, once in a while predict one and hit him with a jump roundhouse, then go back to spamming sonic booms.

    If you block his super, the second to last hit can usually be flash kicked or super flash kicked,

    If he gets in and start pressuring you, just chill out. Look for a whiffed slide and make him eat or block a low forward. Sit there blocking and if he gets in close mash on standing short a bit.

    Now Raisin where is my airthrow info? :P
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Here's how I fight DJ:

    Throw endless fierce sonic booms. Use back sobat kick and back roundhouse to try to keep yourself in a range such that if he jumps towards you, you can make him land on a low forward. If he jumps from closer, deep low fierce for the trade as usual. If you get a knockdown, dont bother with crossups, as I believe he can make them whiff by ducking. (I think the range you need to use to cross him up when hes standing will whiff if he ducks). I just follow a slow sonic boom and do low strong, low forward, sometimes throwing. Thanks to Raisin for the tip that low strong has to be blocked low by DJ!

    If you get to a range where standing short just slightly whiffs, AFAIK it beats every move DJ has. So just mash on it until he gets hit cause I think he has to lol.

    If youre both throwing endless fireballs, once in a while predict one and hit him with a jump roundhouse, then go back to spamming sonic booms.

    If you block his super, the second to last hit can usually be flash kicked or super flash kicked,

    If he gets in and start pressuring you, just chill out. Look for a whiffed slide and make him eat or block a low forward. Sit there blocking and if he gets in close mash on standing short a bit.

    Now Raisin where is my airthrow info? :P

    Thanx brian,

    For air throw info he is a little help
    Just thought I'd add that you want to flip towards shotos and hit back and fierce punch and they must be at the tip of your low forward kick range when they flip towards you especially works when they try to jump fierce you. Thats when you can air grab with punch as far as kick I'm not sure.:rock:
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    oh yeah, fwiw, in the one match I have of muteki guile vs DJ, he seems to try to play the match at a much closer range than I do. Don't know why..
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    oh yeah, fwiw, in the one match I have of muteki guile vs DJ, he seems to try to play the match at a much closer range than I do. Don't know why..

    Hey Brian, is this the match you were talking about?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=zpyW-LS1GwM

    Muteki's concept of spacing with Guile is robot like. He is very good at advancing forward after the sonic booms to really limit deejay's space and lock him down. If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started. Raisin posted an excellent graphic on the timing of the crouching fierce. Muteki looks for the perfect gap where he can control space with his sonic booms and follow up pokes, while at the same time limiting dee jays options on what he can do, which is pretty much throwing a max out or doing a desperate super to get of trouble (which obviously when playing muteki doesn't work). When you see Muteki play, he plays very offensively and doesn't corner himself as much as kurahashi. But both players find a way to make their styles work, and they do it very well.
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hey Brian, is this the match you were talking about?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=zpyW-LS1GwM

    Muteki's concept of spacing with Guile is robot like. He is very good at advancing forward after the sonic booms to really limit deejay's space and lock him down. If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started. Raisin posted an excellent graphic on the timing of the crouching fierce. Muteki looks for the perfect gap where he can control space with his sonic booms and follow up pokes, while at the same time limiting dee jays options on what he can do, which is pretty much throwing a max out or doing a desperate super to get of trouble (which obviously when playing muteki doesn't work). When you see Muteki play, he plays very offensively and doesn't corner himself as much as kurahashi. But both players find a way to make their styles work, and they do it very well.

    awsome vid, I am starting to pick up new guile.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ...If deejay tries to jump over guile then he eats a c. fierce and is back where he started...

    Is it the key to master Guile? I always throw out c.fierce too late and get stuffed, not even a trade. Is it to predict jump ins or to react to jump ins correctly with c.fierce or st.strong?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Okay, so back on the subject of airthrows for a minute, here are the details that I'm aware of...

    1. Horizontal range -- You have to be within a certain horizontal range of your opponent. You're either within this range or you aren't; it's not a radial measurement. (More on that in a minute.)

    2. Vertical range -- The characters' torsos have to be at least somewhat aligned. You can't have one character's head near another's feet or something like that.

    3. Must punch airthrow if below, kick airthrow if above -- If Guile is below his opponent, only the punch airthrow will work; otherwise, he will get a jumping normal attack. If Guile is above his opponent, he needs to use the kick airthrow.

    4. Can't airthrow right next to ground -- It seems that it doesn't work if either character is too close to the ground. Guile can't rip off an airthrow only 1 or 2 frames into the air after his prejump frames, and he can't seem to airthrow when his opponent is just about to land. You can still airthrow fairly close to the ground, just not right next to the ground.

    5. Both airthrows have the same range.

    6. The kick airthrow does more damage.
    __________________________________________________

    Tech babble: non-radial range checks. This shows just about the biggest horizontal range that I was able to airthrow from, both during a very large height difference and a very small height difference. This horizontal distance is the same in both cases, or in other words, you're either in the horizontal range or you aren't. The game doesn't calculate the ranges of the two characters radially, so the area in which you can perform an airthrow is a rectangle rather than a circle.

    Airthrowhorizontalrange.png
    __________________________________________________
    i was able to do a kick air throw when the guy was above me
    The punch throw has more range if I'm not mistaken...
    Not saying you guys are wrong, but I've been unable to replicate these findings with what I've looked at so far.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Can you tech out of those airthrows? Can you tech out of every airthrow?
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  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    Raisin your posts are sick! I mean that in a good way =)
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    Raisin, that's one hell of a good post!

    I think everything you said is correct.

    I'll see if I can incorporate these into my game at all. Do you think there are situations where an airthrow is better than a quick jump attack anti-air? I guess to get the airthrow you typically have to delay pressing the attack button slightly in order to get closer. This seems risky.
  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169
    i want more raisin posts!

    raisin, ive been able to kick airthrow people that were above me numerous times.
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Okay, so back on the subject of airthrows for a minute, here are the details that I'm aware of...

    1. Horizontal range -- You have to be within a certain horizontal range of your opponent. You're either within this range or you aren't; it's not a radial measurement. (More on that in a minute.)

    2. Vertical range -- The characters' torsos have to be at least somewhat aligned. You can't have one character's head near another's feet or something like that.

    3. Must punch airthrow if below, kick airthrow if above -- If Guile is below his opponent, only the punch airthrow will work; otherwise, he will get a jumping normal attack. If Guile is above his opponent, he needs to use the kick airthrow.

    4. Can't airthrow right next to ground -- It seems that it doesn't work if either character is too close to the ground. Guile can't rip off an airthrow only 1 or 2 frames into the air after his prejump frames, and he can't seem to airthrow when his opponent is just about to land. You can still airthrow fairly close to the ground, just not right next to the ground.

    5. Both airthrows have the same range.

    6. The kick airthrow does more damage.
    __________________________________________________

    Tech babble: non-radial range checks. This shows just about the biggest horizontal range that I was able to airthrow from, both during a very large height difference and a very small height difference. This horizontal distance is the same in both cases, or in other words, you're either in the horizontal range or you aren't. The game doesn't calculate the ranges of the two characters radially, so the area in which you can perform an airthrow is a rectangle rather than a circle.

    Airthrowhorizontalrange.png
    __________________________________________________



    Not saying you guys are wrong, but I've been unable to replicate these findings with what I've looked at so far.

    Excellent post raisin
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    I wish I could subscribe to Raisin posts.
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  • Homer PimpsonHomer Pimpson Questionable Joined: Posts: 1,179
    I wish I could subscribe to Raisin posts.

    me too =]
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  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,684
    I've been schooled, thank you Raisin, but I was just saying what had been said in the random trivia thread on these boards. ^^;
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  • SmoothCatSmoothCat ダウンに戻る神 Joined: Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    great post guys guile all day!!!
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The best US guile player ever was Tomo Ohira.

    Word. I wish I got to play against him when Schaefer shortly came out of retirement(I faced him after he beat daigo at FFA), I got to play against Thomas Osaki at 2k2 though but not against his guile.
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    If anyone's interested in seeing it, Valle showed up on 2df the other day and played a set with me Guile vs Ken. Ive never played a ken that gave me such a hard time.. well, it was pretty even, but that makes me wonder how it would go to play his Ryu or O Sagat.

    I'm a bit undecided about whether going for crossups against ken is worthwhile. If he blocks the crossup you put yourself in a bad spot because if you do low strong afterwards and then he dragon punches, he's safe. So you put yourself right in his comfort zone. Going for low short combos kind of works, but its really hard to directly combo the low short on shotos after the crossup, and if youre playing Valle, he's often going to reversal dp there. It might be better to just play a really boring style against ken and do nothing but sonic booms basically..

    Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

    Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.
  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

    Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.
    ...lol, you just got baited. adjust, son!
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If anyone's interested in seeing it, Valle showed up on 2df the other day and played a set with me Guile vs Ken. Ive never played a ken that gave me such a hard time.. well, it was pretty even, but that makes me wonder how it would go to play his Ryu or O Sagat.

    I'm a bit undecided about whether going for crossups against ken is worthwhile. If he blocks the crossup you put yourself in a bad spot because if you do low strong afterwards and then he dragon punches, he's safe. So you put yourself right in his comfort zone. Going for low short combos kind of works, but its really hard to directly combo the low short on shotos after the crossup, and if youre playing Valle, he's often going to reversal dp there. It might be better to just play a really boring style against ken and do nothing but sonic booms basically..

    Another annoying thing he would do alot is dp after whiffing sweeps. So if you try to low forward his sweep, you are punished badly if you mistime it. He also had a bunch of really good setups where he would sweep from long distances at a time where it was "obvious" I was going to do a low forward (which would then get beaten). Typically if he guessed wrong he wouldnt get punished anyway from these ranges.

    Anyway its a pretty entertaining set so go take a look.


    Yeah his new Ken is tough, I beat him 3 out of like 8 matches, but then about 30 min later we had more games and he brought out old ken, and it was ultra difficult , I could not even touch him...the guy never fell for my watson like fake outs(old guile). Trust me man, if you think his new ken it hard try facing against his old ken before you even think of playing his ryu.

    Btw can you please post those on to youtube? The computer admin at my will not take the fire wall so I cant install anything(My only web usage).
  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169

    2:46 - 2:47

    how???
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    st.Foward right??? I mean your talking about Guile hopping over the low tiger with that move right? Or are you asking something else?
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  • CaliPowerCaliPower Level | Up President Joined: Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    nice guile matches =)
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Even though this is irelevent to this thread I am posting this just cause I thinks its a really cool kick ass 80's movie and I think Capcom molded Guile off of this guy from this movie. 2 things I picked up from this movie is that he does guiles jump foward kick in this clip and later he does that neutral close standing roundhouse from SF2 through a truck window. Lol that explains why it looks like Guile is holding onto something when he does that old kick:

    Guiles jump forward kick from the movie American Ninja 2
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8bVriLdlqPw&feature=related

    Guile old neutral close standing roundhouse at 2:33 on this clip

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=bwTMKLCQftw&feature=related
  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    st.Foward right??? I mean your talking about Guile hopping over the low tiger with that move right? Or are you asking something else?

    yeah he's asking about the s.forward hopping over the low tiger...

    in ST he can still do it; it just takes impeccable timing like the guy in that video showed.


    there's a classic video of kurahashi vs. choi doing the same thing somewhere on youtube.
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  • DwinDwin The Lily Warrior Joined: Posts: 597
    anyone have any stats vs honda and T.hawk for some reason those chars throw me for a loop...
    Okay, I was wrong.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    Since you guys were talking about airthrows, I thought you guys could put this to use.

    http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qulM0aXRA&feature=related

    Looks like it isn't to impractical to use in a real match by baiting DP's but I'll let you Guile pros figure it out if it can be used or not.
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Since you guys were talking about airthrows, I thought you guys could put this to use.

    http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qulM0aXRA&feature=related

    Looks like it isn't to impractical to use in a real match by baiting DP's but I'll let you Guile pros figure it out if it can be used or not.

    I love to play that bait game, but its easier said than done during the heat of the moment.
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    yeah I really dont see how to make that practical. The main situation I guess would be crossup-> long strong-> bait dp -> airthrow. But in that situation you can just do low strong -> flashkick, and the airthrow is techable. I think its just useful when you want to show off (a role which it fills quite well :P)
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    Oh I don't know guys but I'm a sucker for wake up DP's. Knock me down and bet 100 dlls that I'll do a wake up DP even if you are a full screen away :rofl:

    I was thinking maybe after an AA flash kick
    > walk forward and get into postion ( same as vid ) and wait for the DP. There was also a part on the vid where the Shoto put HIMSELF into position after he whiffed a DP and the imedieatly does another ( something Shoto players do A LOT ).

    But ehhh.......you guys say it isn't practical, then I'll take your word for it.
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Oh I don't know guys but I'm a sucker for wake up DP's. Knock me down and bet 100 dlls that I'll do a wake up DP even if you are a full screen away :rofl:

    I was thinking maybe after an AA flash kick
    > walk forward and get into postion ( same as vid ) and wait for the DP. There was also a part on the vid where the Shoto put HIMSELF into position after he whiffed a DP and the imedieatly does another ( something Shoto players do A LOT ).

    But ehhh.......you guys say it isn't practical, then I'll take your word for it.

    Yeah I only made use of that flashy tactic with CE Guile in AE since they can't tech my throws hehe...its too bad AE is not ever going to be in EVO again:sad:
  • MinhHoangMinhHoang Joined: Posts: 291
    Hey guys, I've recently started playing guile on GGPO and hes pretty fun. But what I'm having problems with is what to do vs dic players. After headstomps it seems like they're perfectly safe. Are there any tips with this match up?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    When I try to combo a cross-up LK into a cr. MP, it just doesn't seem to combo. Any help? I can only get it to combo maybe 10% of the time.
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