Guile thread

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hey guys, quick question:

    Will a j. short/j. jab, c. jab, jab sonic boom give me a good tick throw? I've tried it out in training and it seems to work well (especially with the opponent cornered), but is it too obvious that I'm gonna follow up the sonic boom with a throw? I could always mix it up with a c. forward or an upsidedown kick [which will be an overhead in hd remix ;) ] or maybe a backfist. You're thoughts on this?

    edit: Just thought of another question: is it possible to keep your back charge while crossing up you're opponent? I know the person defending the cross up can keep their charge by switching joystick posistions as soon as their opponent's directly overhead. I've been trying to do this as soon as a land but I always lose my charge.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Hey guys, quick question:

    an upsidedown kick [which will be an overhead in hd remix ;) ] You're thoughts on this?

    edit: Just thought of another question: is it possible to keep your back charge while crossing up you're opponent? I know the person defending the cross up can keep their charge by switching joystick posistions as soon as their opponent's directly overhead. I've been trying to do this as soon as a land but I always lose my charge.

    O_O In that case I'm changing my main to Guile in HD Remix (always thought close st.RH should be an overhead anyways, hell it's over their head :rofl: jk). As far as them expecting a throw after the chain + special, they won't until you do it more than once in a round/match depending on how many you've already played. Definitely mix up your style (when possible) as much as possible. I never want my opponent to have any idea of what's coming next (why it's always good to throw out safe pokes at all times). Yes, just switch the direction you're charging as soon as you cross the "mirror" (same way you execute supers and specials when crossed). It just takes practice and getting to know that exact vertical line over your opp., best way I can explain to do it
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thx, good to know

    edit: This is going to reveal my status as a noob , but what are safe pokes? My understanding was quick recovery, high priority moves you could use on an advancing opponent to keep them back. I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?
  • TheloThelo Holdin' down-back Joined: Posts: 1,144 mod
    I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?
    I don't know if there's another reason, but as Honda against Guiles like that, it makes it a lot harder for me to know when to expect a sonic boom. I'm concentrating on Guile's sprite, ready to jump at the moment he throws a boom, and when I see a quick jab I tend to mistake it for the startup of a sonic boom and I jump to my doom.

    Against a Guile who doesn't randomly jab like that, I can just reaction jump or buttslam at the moment I see any movement from Guile, because 99% of the time it'll mean a sonic boom.
    Keeping your cool is always the winning move.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Thx, good to know

    edit: This is going to reveal my status as a noob , but what are safe pokes? My understanding was quick recovery, high priority moves you could use on an advancing opponent to keep them back. I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?

    I think your just misunderstanding a few basic principles. The best way to win matches IMO is with mind games (assuming your execution is perfect, and you have a solid defense->offense (game plan)). Safe pokes are any moves you can execute that your opp. cannot counter (example: cr.foward for guile is NOT a safe poke against gief b/c he can counter with cr.RH). The poke doesn't necessarily have to make contact with the opp. (I should have used a better term than safe poke) but only throw out pokes that cannot be countered/will leave you vulnerable. The idea is that if you're constantly throwing out moves (at what seems like random to your opp.) they will have less choices in attacking you; a lot of people will get "scared/nervous" because they have absolutely no idea what to expect. Many players depend on patterns and general game plan strategies (Note: if you don't have a game plan to begin with you're more than likely going to lose the match; being random only comes with knowing your overall game plan) to win, but forget the mind games. As far as what individuals do I couldn't tell you the reason, however, I can tell you that Muteki and Kurahashi don't use the jab's to keep the timing down (once it's in your head it's stuck there IMO); I assume there just keeping safe attacks going.
    :tup:
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  • vieja escuelavieja escuela Joined: Posts: 93
    I'd like to know if the combo standing hp/super was ever achieved in tournament.
  • SweetJohnnyVSweetJohnnyV Streets ahead! Joined: Posts: 1,981 mod
    I've seen alot of players (guile players in particular) seem to randomly throw in jabs and such for apparently no reason. Are they hoping to keep their opponent at bay or hit him on the way in? I've noticed alot of good guile players (muteki and kurahashi) ussually jab a few times between sonic booms. Is this to get their timing down?

    There's a few reason why people do this:

    1. Like others mentioned, the constant stream of motion from your opponent makes it harder to react to a "real" move.

    2. If you're doing any move and your opponent tries to walk backwards they'll block instead of walking backwards. So, at mid range this can sometimes be useful to keep your opponent locked into place.

    3. At closer range, throwing out quick high-priority moves acts as a make-shift shield. If the do something unexpected quickly your move is likely to beat, or at least trade with it. For example, against Blanka or E.Honda spamming jabs will stop their ball/torpedo attacks. Less obviously, moves like this can stop far pokes or jump-ins.

    4. I forget which characters, but one or two of characters in ST have a better recovery from their fast fireball if you cancel it from a jab.

    5. It makes you look cool :wgrin:
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853

    4. I forget which characters, but one or two of characters in ST have a better recovery from their fast fireball if you cancel it from a jab.

    Ryu's fireball, Ken's Fire ball, N.Sagat's Fire balls, Akuma Fireball (non-flame).
    (Per NKI@ gamecombo's Frame Data Page)
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks for the responses guys. You really helped clear some things up.

    Edit: What do you guys think about this wakeup at 1:07

    It looks like a good way to make them block 2 sb. If he had used a jab sonic boom for the second one, he might have been in a good posistion to either tick throw him or hit with something like a sobat
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    any more tips about rog?

    I struggle with dhalsim too, have to play the distance game , if he gets too close with the slide cheaps im done for
  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,807 mod
    5. It makes you look cool :wgrin:

    5-B. It makes it look like you know what you're doing.

    6. It holds YOU still while charging back (not back down). You charge without losing ground. This applies to most charge characters.

    7. Timing. When I am tossing out continual sonic booms, timing with jabs in between can sometimes aid my muscle memory. It comes in handy when I want to toss the next SB with as close to the minimum charge time as possible.
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  • JazzJazz Pagua Sonfa Joined: Posts: 3,087
    the more you know.....



    doo doo doo dooo

    *star flies across space*
    I think some ppl should join the madden community
  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169
    any more tips about rog?

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ok, I know Guile vs Ryu was "done" earlier in this thread, but I wanted to rehash it. The general concensus was that Guile must tutrle and ryu has to try to get in. Up close, Guile can safely throw sonic booms and backfist if Ryu counters with a fireball. Guile must watch out for the hurricane kick though.

    What I'm wondering is why would Ryu put himself in a situation like this? Ryu's not going to lose a fireball war to Guile fullscreen, so why does he need to go in and attack, especially when it's such a b*tch for Guile to try to get in on Ryu? Wouldn't Ryu fare better if he made Guile come to him?
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    The thing is, Guile does pretty much win a fireball fight with Ryu from full screen. Basically because when theyre spamming fireballs, in principle Guile should never get hit.. you can't keep up with the fireballs outright, but when one too many comes your way, you jump back over it if you see its a fast one, and short flashkick/jump straight up over it if you see its a slow one. Assuming you don't screw this up, you can just keep matching fireballs and dodging the odd one forever. Ryu however, risks getting hit by a jump roundhouse to the face every time he throws a fireball. So he can't win this way.

    Of course depending on what exactly Ryu does it will get more complicated, but this is the general point.

    *the fact that Ryu eventually gets a super also complicates things, but still, that has no effect on full screen fireball wars.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Oh, Ok, thx
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

    I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either.
  • SmoothCatSmoothCat ダウンに戻る神 Joined: Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

    I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either.
    beating blanka.......japs have lost there mind
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  • wolf_1wolf_1 Joined: Posts: 169
    Man the new tier chart Nohoho posted up on his site is shocking. It has Guile losing 6.5-3.5 to Ryu, and beating Blanka 6-4!

    I'm speechless.. That doesn't jive with my experience or what Ive seen in vids of top Japanese players either.

  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I had played against Alex Valle on GGPO last friday, really intense matches. He first played ken then switched to old Sagat and then his N. Ryu and I was using Old Guile, I think we played more than 50 games and I forgot to record them unfortunately. GGs bro.


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  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The thing is, Guile does pretty much win a fireball fight with Ryu from full screen. Basically because when theyre spamming fireballs, in principle Guile should never get hit.. you can't keep up with the fireballs outright, but when one too many comes your way, you jump back over it if you see its a fast one, and short flashkick/jump straight up over it if you see its a slow one. Assuming you don't screw this up, you can just keep matching fireballs and dodging the odd one forever. Ryu however, risks getting hit by a jump roundhouse to the face every time he throws a fireball. So he can't win this way.
    Of course depending on what exactly Ryu does it will get more complicated, but this is the general point.

    *the fact that Ryu eventually gets a super also complicates things, but still, that has no effect on full screen fireball wars.

    Totally disagree with the part in bold. Guile has nothing on Ryu in the air. If the Ryu player is jumping from full screen, he'll be ready with his jump roundhouse which will stuff yours. This is a 50/50 scenario at best.

    Best thing for Guile to do would be to take the offensive and, if he guesses correctly, jump a fireball from fullscreen. He can then stuff Ryu with his longer reaching jump roundhouse.
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  • EvilinkEvilink Joined: Posts: 212
    I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

    Just one more week and you won't have to worry about it. :)

    Personally I charge down-back, then when I want to do the super, I just do a quick half circle from down-towards to up-back

    Duck Strong you seem to have misunderstood the sentence you bolded. I was referring specifically to the possibility of Guile guessing a fireball from full screen and hitting Ryu with a jump rh.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Guile vs. Ryu

    This is some of the most useful information for the guile vs ryu match up. Neither character is going to jump in (unless the opp. makes a fatal mistake and mistimes a fireball) so it will likely resort to the ground game. This is a tough match up for me cause it involves being extremely patient :rofl:
    http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#ryuguile
    I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

    Perform the easy motion if your not: dn/away_, dn/twds, up/away+short~foward~RH~release short~release foward~release RH

    I'm not sure what kind of gate your stick has but mine is square and Guile's super is fairly easy to perform (since the motion is just corner to corner). You really don't have to do the motion lighting fast, make sure you have the correct directional input by slowly practicing the motion; getting your hand eye coordination use to it. Make sure your using the piano key input to make things easier on yourself.
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  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    jeez look how many points more CE and HF Guile have over ST Guile(weak low forward) on the crouch forward kick. I hope Sirlin anded more hit boxes to his low forward in HD, from the Gamespot vids it looks like he did...I hope.
  • brianbrian Joined: Posts: 765
    He didn't.
  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    jeez look how many points more CE and HF Guile have over ST Guile(weak low forward) on the crouch forward kick. I hope Sirlin anded more hit boxes to his low forward in HD, from the Gamespot vids it looks like he did...I hope.

    I think your making the low foward hit boxes a bigger deal then it really is. According to YBH CE and HF Guile's low foward hit box is only a tad better then Super and ST Guile's.
    It's kind of late in history to be coming up with real good ideas, luckily I have plenty of really bad fucking ideas.
  • theMeanGreentheMeanGreen Joined: Posts: 8
    I came to the realization that I really suck at guile, I knew I sucked but thought I was getting better, but I can't even pull off his Super. It's fucking disheartening to not be able to pull it off, not even in practice. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong but no matter how I try it I fail miserably, the best I get is a flash kick out of the ordeal. It doesn't help that I just started playing ST on a custom stick with a JLF, but its no excuse.

    Try watching your fingers to make sure your are doing the motion correctly. After lots of practice, you should have some muscle memory. Just make sure your motions are real strict. Also i would start off by doing the motion somewhat slowly and pick up the pace until the move goes off.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Guile vs Fei Long

    Can anyone give me or point me to a rundown on a guile vs fei long matchup? IN particular, what do you do if Fei long jumps a sonic boom on reaction from a bit outside low forward range? Is you best option to block? Can you trade or clean hit him with anything?
  • BattosaiBattosai Joined: Posts: 766 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    He didn't.

    Gee thats too bad


    Sanjuro_The_Ronin: I think you really need to play CE and HF Guile again and compare them to the ST versions on AE using his crouching forward kick(for defence and offence) on 2df against a ST chun li or ST rog player, then you will know its a vital difference my friend.
  • shockwaveshockwave Joined: Posts: 81
    i wanted to ask, in the link below:



    at appx 0:46, guile jumps at balrog with jumping jab, c.short, standing short, into sonic kick. whats the best way to do this, or is there an "easy trick" to make this combo come out? i've seen combos with standing fierce into sonic kick, but this was somewhat more difficult.

    also, in the vid below:



    at appx 0:29, you have guile jumping in with roundhouse, into low strong, into super. what is the easiest method to perform this. actually, at what frame of animation should the super motion be initiated?
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    i wanted to ask, in the link below:



    at appx 0:46, guile jumps at balrog with jumping jab, c.short, standing short, into sonic kick. whats the best way to do this, or is there an "easy trick" to make this combo come out? i've seen combos with standing fierce into sonic kick, but this was somewhat more difficult.

    also, in the vid below:



    at appx 0:29, you have guile jumping in with roundhouse, into low strong, into super. what is the easiest method to perform this. actually, at what frame of animation should the super motion be initiated?

    Learn the Renda Kara Cancel. 1st question here's what guile did: j.jab+_dn, c.short, n+short, up~jab~short (or he could have negative edged the second short at the Cancel)

    The second combo can be performed by j.RH+_dn/away, dn/towards~cr.strong~up/away+short~foward~RH
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  • shockwaveshockwave Joined: Posts: 81
    Learn the Renda Kara Cancel

    where is the thread that explains this in detail?
    what guile did: j.jab+_dn, c.short, n+short, up~jab~short (or he could have negative edged the second short at the Cancel)

    in the up~jab~short portion, what purpose is the jab? it doesnt even come out at that point, and what is negative edge?

    assume that i am a beginner, as some of these terms are not familiar
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Links to Dictator youtube.com matches

    Here is a link to a webpage that lists links to youtube character matchups for ST Guile:
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/guile/guilematches.html

    Most the players are Japanese, and most the footage is from Japanese Tournaments.

    I wanted to get this out before the release of STHD.
    My HTML skills are pretty weak, so the formatting is still rough.
    This is a collection of links that I have had for some time, and I have found personally useful in improving my game.

    The BEST way I have found to use these links, is to reference the appropriate ones AFTER I get my butt kicked by a particular character.
    That way I'm hungry to pick up specific things that will help me in that matchup.

    Enjoy!
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • N-TradeN-Trade Joined: Posts: 63
    snip!

    Bro, that's incredible... thanks a lot man!

    Edit: looks great too, clean and nice website... google style!
  • incognegroincognegro Joined: Posts: 180
    I have been watching and reading forums for the last couple of days but I have not seen anything in here that explains how you can get something like a c.mp, N, s.j, flashkick. How does something like that work. Also, if you think that I am talking jibberish then tell me how to maintain a charge while moving and is there specific ones that can do it.
    Dem bounce combos. Xiaoyu is like a gaping cavern of execution with a wooden post out front that says "abandon all hope ye who enter here."-soulsynapse
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Note: you cannot keep a charge after the stick leaves the direction your charging (no walking flash kicks, however, the frame window for fireballs does allow you to walk forward ever so slightly before pressing punch, same reason why the combo you mentioned works).
    Here's the input command:

    dn_,cr.mp, n+jab~up+kick (You can use the piano method to make things a little easier)
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  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    ...
    Note: you cannot keep a charge after the stick leaves the direction your charging

    Except for a horizontal charge when an opponent switches sides on your character.

    I've also seen Taira walk up slightly before doing a super with Dictator:
    (0:55 in)
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  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    Note: you cannot keep a charge after the stick leaves the direction your charging (no walking flash kicks, however, the frame window for fireballs does allow you to walk forward ever so slightly before pressing punch, same reason why the combo you mentioned works).

    Actually, the leniency at the end of special move inputs, charge or motion, lets you do whatever you want as long as you immediately end in the general direction with the button press. You can easily see this by holding the final forward in the 'bfbf' to the maximum frames allowed before pressing P/K for boxer and dictator's supers so that you walk forward a half-step before executing them.

    And that's also why with Chun Li, you can use her super glitch to walk right next to them and then go quickly back to neutral and connect with a c.MK before comboing into her super.
  • comoesacomoesa not too bad.. Joined: Posts: 1,172
    im haveing problems with turtling boxers, they know i can punish the headbutt, so they jjust jump over them with j.mp which has really good priority, or block them. This goes on until they eventually build ip that super meter and im standing on egshells....

    need help.
    FOREVER NEVERMORE
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