Balrog Thread

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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Evading Ken's super: link.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714


    Jump to 18:03.

    How difficult is that link from cr.forward ~ super? I'm surprised I don't see more Boxers doing it.
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116


    Jump to 18:03.

    How difficult is that link from cr.forward ~ super? I'm surprised I don't see more Boxers doing it.
    For me I think it is easier to link than cr strong. Could just be that I am more used to linking from cr forward
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    How difficult is that link from cr.forward ~ super? I'm surprised I don't see more Boxers doing it.
    YT's frame rate does not help, but it looked like a cancel. Probably a low-throw mix-up.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    YT's frame rate does not help, but it looked like a cancel. Probably a low-throw mix-up.

    It's definitely low or throw, but it seemed like Boxer was too far away to go for a tick, unless the other guy pre-emptively hit buttons to stop Boxer from walking forward.

    It looks like a link, since there seems to be quite a lot of delay between the cr.forward landing and the super coming out. But according to srk wiki, it can be super-canceled, so I guess there's pretty generous input window for the super on cr.forward?
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    It's a late cancel. The timing is actually kind of strict but you don't have to buffer any motions for it. You can also link the super too; the timing between the two is only different by a few milliseconds so sometimes it's hard to tell which one they did by just watching.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    So the fact that you can both cancel, and link into it, make it much easier to land?
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    Well you still have to execute for either the cancel or the link; the link doesn't really work well as a fail-safe for the cancel. The timing requirement for both of them is strict enough so I wouldn't call it easy, but it's not really that hard to do.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It looks like a link, since there seems to be quite a lot of delay between the cr.forward landing and the super coming out. But according to srk wiki, it can be super-canceled, so I guess there's pretty generous input window for the super on cr.forward?
    Yeah, I messed up. I double-clicked the play button, trying to find a recovery frame, but I tried only once. Stupid me!
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    does Balrog have a similar OS to hawk's dp/ 360 ?
    lets say rog safe jumps with jab, then cr jab, then grab attempt + up n punch, so if opponent reversal, his grab attempt gets canceled into buffalo headbutt?

    Look at 11:45 of video:
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Can't anyone with an invincible move do that
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    does Balrog have a similar OS to hawk's dp/ 360 ?
    lets say rog safe jumps with jab, then cr jab, then grab attempt + up n punch, so if opponent reversal, his grab attempt gets canceled into buffalo headbutt?
    ...
    That's a little more challenging technically, and has different properties, but should be possible (possibly also out of low rush...). Blocking is safer than the headbutt (by a little) and T Hawk has better throw range on his 360 than Balrog does on his normal throw.
    Can't anyone with an invincible move do that
    It also requires throw range and the invincible move to be 'good' enough to beat whatever reversals the other guy has available. It's unlikely to be a strong option for, say, Cammy.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Can't anyone with an invincible move do that
    I mention rog due having a long ass start up, so most chars if try to reversal, their attack invincibility runs out n by the time rog's buffalo headbutt is active, it beats the opponent's clean.

    also rog's mp grab has has big range so he can loop most of the cast
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    this is just what boxer needs! maybe now he will be viable ;p

    **vomits**
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I'm pretty sure Sesho is right, and the Japanese - and probably even the better US Rog players - have been using it for quite some time.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Probably common knowledge for every Rog user, but just now I realize that you can use low TAPs while still having a high K TAP charged. Hold all three punch buttons immediately after you execute a rush punch (or a standing HP for example), holding the button you used for the rush and piano-holding (for a lack of a better term) the rest. You can do a 1 TAP immediately after the move ends, easier if your TAP hit or was blocked of course. So you can still have access to TAPs while still holding that K TAP.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It looks like these are from the same day Tsuji did those FT10 against Sashishi, Sasori and Mattsun, at Mikado:


    Edit: 17:27 on second video is pretty unfair
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    ^^ It's unfair, but Ryu should always be using red fireball in this match. Chalk it up to execution error.
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    There's something I've been doing a lot lately, don't know if this is well known, but it may be worth exploring.
    If you ever find yourself getting hit with a fireball, yet you have charge, with the right timing you can hold forward for a while during the fireball slowdown and press punch really late. You'll almost do two steps forward before the rush punch comes out.
    It seems to be pretty good to gain some extra distance to hit opponents who should be out of range and it can throw people off, because the punch comes out so late after you hold forward.
    If this turns out to be useless, at least it's oddly satisfying to do.
    this is just what boxer needs! maybe now he will be viable ;p

    Claw avatar
    Roald Dhalsim
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    ...
    If you ever find yourself getting hit with a fireball, yet you have charge, with the right timing you can hold forward for a while during the fireball slowdown and press punch really late. You'll almost do two steps forward before the rush punch comes out.
    It seems to be pretty good to gain some extra distance to hit opponents who should be out of range and it can throw people off, because the punch comes out so late after you hold forward.

    You should be able to do that even without the slowdown. You can move forward the same distance, but only get to hold toward for half as long.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    There's something I've been doing a lot lately, don't know if this is well known, but it may be worth exploring.
    If you ever find yourself getting hit with a fireball, yet you have charge, with the right timing you can hold forward for a while during the fireball slowdown and press punch really late. You'll almost do two steps forward before the rush punch comes out.
    It seems to be pretty good to gain some extra distance to hit opponents who should be out of range and it can throw people off, because the punch comes out so late after you hold forward.
    If this turns out to be useless, at least it's oddly satisfying to do.


    this is good. especially if you play chun, you can delay the fireball 1 step to keep pushing back and gain position. for ryu i don't see any advantage using, maybe ken cuz his fireball recovery is faster then ryu's.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
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  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    You should be able to do that even without the slowdown. You can move forward the same distance, but only get to hold toward for half as long.

    True, though I think the fireball slowdown might help, because it looks like you're walking longer, which may help in tricking your opponent in thinking you don't have charge. I'm no psychiatrist though, but maybe this could be useful.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Standing headbutt for Rog just involves mashing st.LP and then going really fast to crouch position whilst kara'ing a light kick and then resuming the mashed LP.

    Alright, after some practice, I've managed to do this thing as well. I've also found that it isn't necessary to mash jabs first, then do the cr.lk, then mash jab again. You can go straight from the cr.lk to the jab mash. You don't even have to mash that fast, just be consistent.
    It seems to work as long as you hit down a little bit before the lk. As long as you do that, you should be able to get it, as long as there's no skipped frames getting in your way. It does seem somehow easier to mash beforehand, but you don't have to do it.
    You also don't have to switch back to mashing st.lp superfast. Just let your finger bounce off of the lk, then move up and start hitting lp.

    Still have no idea WHY the hell this works at all...

    EDIT: Wait a fucking minute, no scratch that! This is how you do it!
    I got the inputs right, but you do have to mash jab first. Mash jab, hit cr.lk, then jab again. Now, if Rog stands back up while holding down, you did it right -HOWEVER- after you do this, you don't have to start the technique again with standing jabs! It gets stored somehow.
    So after you activate the "restand", you can start the technique with the cr.lk, in stead of having to mash jab first. Fuck it up though, and you have to start with the mashed jabs again. Hope that made sense.

    tiny edit: Of course you don't even have to mash jab to start this, a single jab, followed by a cr.lk etc works as well. Mashing is probably easier though.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    only the Chun Copter creator could figure this out!
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Uhm no, I never would have found this thing in the first place and I still don't understand why the heck this would happen.
    Also, the only real match application I can think of so far is when you're playing against Honda. You mash the stand jabs to counter his headbutt, then when he tries to walk forward and sweep you, you bust out the headbutt.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    I've seen Boxers do it just for fun. I've seen it used to bait Zangief and Hawk players into jumping forward, but it's a pretty gimmicky move. It's just funny to see.



    4:14 You can see him attempt to do it before he finally gets it a few seconds later.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714


    Never seen that before. Doesn't even look difficult to pull off. New Boxer tech.
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    I was talking to MysteriousFighter on GGPO last night and he mentioned an advanced Boxer option select against Ryu. Apparently on Ryu's wakeup you can do

    j.LK -> MP throw kara'd into LP headbutt

    where once you do the j.LK you land just outside Ryu's throw range. The idea is obviously to get a throw if Ryu does nothing, and LP headbutt (which will beat everything) if Ryu tries to shoryu or hurricane out.

    I haven't had time to try this out, and I don't think I've ever seen this technique demonstrated in any match videos. I would've thought if this technique was very effective that you'd see it used more, but maybe it isn't well known. I was wondering if anyone could confirm that the option select is possible.

    On a side note, MysteriousFighter is the only Ryu I've seen who actually uses the kick throw/DP option select in the Ryu mirror match (Nohoho posted the trick on his blog a few years back).
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    That has been around since the SSF2 days and I'm guessing even befor. Here you see Daigo using it all over the place with Guile vs Cammy. There is a listing of the attempts in the description. The way out would be a reversal grab.


    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    actually....It wouldn't work on anything before SSF2 now that I think of it
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    errr maybe vs Blanka huh lol
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    MysteriousFighter is top tier man
    djfrijoles wrote: »
    There is a listing of the attempts in the description.

    I knew that channel is full of gold but there is nothing apparent in the title of the video and description by default is hidden on youtube. No wonder I missed it.

    Good catch beans.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • vandarkholmevandarkholme Joined: Posts: 388
    Hey, I'm trying to learn Balrog (I'm a honda main).
    Can anyone explain to me how to deal with ryu tatsu crossups on wakeup and close range?
    Headbutt of course doesnt always work, should I use just an anti air normal when he does it not-meaty?
    Is it better to not jump in this matchup? I like to do air-to-airs in fighting games but I have no clue if there is anything that beats ryu jump tatsu unless I stick out a jumping normal veeeery early.
    Sutorito Faita : Sad strike
    vandark, you should hear a cool pherai story from me one day then. Add it to all your history. I'll probably remember it closer to EVO time and just retell it to the forum when I'm probably going to re-tell some more anyway. Its not the glory hole one though, that one's too legendary. You probably know more about that than me.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Hey, I'm trying to learn Balrog (I'm a honda main).
    Can anyone explain to me how to deal with ryu tatsu crossups on wakeup and close range?
    Headbutt of course doesnt always work, should I use just an anti air normal when he does it not-meaty?
    Is it better to not jump in this matchup? I like to do air-to-airs in fighting games but I have no clue if there is anything that beats ryu jump tatsu unless I stick out a jumping normal veeeery early.

    A lot of it is dependent on Ryu's timing. If he goes for early tatsus, you can actually do a dash upper to get out of the way. Advanced players can do dash upper ~ super, which sometimes hits Ryu as he's landing from the jump.

    Honestly, the best solution is to crouch-block. This counters late tatsu attempts. Basically you duck down as you get up, and then stand up and block the crossup direction. Depending on how he does it, he'll either whiff the attack, or you'll end up blocking it as you stand up. Difficult to time, and situation specific, but that is one option.

    Again, I stress, these are pretty advanced maneuvers that require that you get a feel for Ryu's attack timing, and a lot of practice. Best case scenario is to avoid getting caught in these mixups in the first place. For now, it might be easier to just block against it, hope you block correctly. Ryu can't go for a lot of mixups if you block since you get pushed a bit far away, and it's VERY difficult for Ryu to cross up Boxer using a j.roundhouse.

    The standard strategy is to not jump initially. Use jab headbutt to get around fireballs, or the fierce version if you're within range to hit him. Build meter by doing this. You can occasionally go for a jab low rush punch if you want to play more aggressive. You might catch him doing a bad fireball or low poke, then you can have fun doing safe jumps, mixups, turn punches. Go nuts.

    The matchup feels about even, maybe slight Ryu favor at the start. Once boxer gets super, a clean knockdown, or traps Ryu in the corner, it's strongly in his favor. RTSD.
  • MaxGritMaxGrit Master Baiter Joined: Posts: 291
    Balrog is a fun character to learn for a brand new ST player. Do you think I can learn him for USF4 by playing ST?
    SSF4T on GGPO is very fun.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Yeah. Pr-balrog was playing sf4 rog rush down like st rog. Shit was hype. I almost rush punched the guy sitting next to cuz it reminded me so much like st rog.
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    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    MaxGrit wrote: »
    Balrog is a fun character to learn for a brand new ST player. Do you think I can learn him for USF4 by playing ST?

    Depends on your style of play. Playing ST can force you to rely on your fundamentals, as Balrog has a very good poke game in both SF4 and ST. His rush punch is pretty oppressive in ST, whereas it's not quite so abusive in SF4, since game mechanics and certain characters have a lot more safe options to combat it. It can also help you learn how to hold TAP while playing the footsie game, and how to hide charge times during your offense, which is pretty tricky to learn at first.

    The same thing can be done by playing Rog in AE and just learning the game. Getting seat time in either games will definitely help build you up as a player.
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Learning to play ST as ANY character is gonna help you in any other game possible, even non-fighting games, imo
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    turtle players= camping
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    So... against Ryu's short tatsu into throw bullshit. What do you Rog players do to counter? Seems like since short tatsu doesn't have any landing frames it is incredibly easy to jam on throw or just block/srk.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
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