Balrog Thread

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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    So... against Ryu's short tatsu into throw bullshit. What do you Rog players do to counter? Seems like since short tatsu doesn't have any landing frames it is incredibly easy to jam on throw or just block/srk.

    You can actually hit Ryu during his landing frames, but it seems easier to use an attack that hits mid instead of low for ease of timing. cr.jab and cr.strong are popular options, since there's not much hurtbox on those attacks.

    Alternatively, you can use jab headbutt, as that beats out throw attempts, attacks, and stands a good chance at beating, trading, or going through uppercuts.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Headbutt, crouching fierce, cr.fwd -> cr.str xx rush, kick rush, standing fierce, standing strong, block and throw... Lots of options. It's only ever useful as an escape attempt to safe jumps and from point blank range, when sometimes normals go the wrong way. Offline, it's free damage in every other scenario. And when Rog does damage... it's high damage.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    I usually try to tag the short tatsu on the way down with a cr mp but it seems if they are going for a throw out of the tatsu they always get it. Crouching HP will usually miss because it doesn't have enough horizontal hitbox to connect. Crouching HK has long startup and usually gets me thrown too. Reacting with a headbutt seems like the way to go, but that is a pretty difficult spot to do it in for me.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • CUTWESTCUTWEST There is no rivalry. =( Joined: Posts: 1,771
    edited December 2014


    New Technique / Glitch discovered???

    explain.png
  • BixHDBixHD Semi-lurker Joined: Posts: 193
    edited March 2015
    Is st.MK good as a poke? I see Boxer players in SF4 use it as such sometimes, so I'm guessing it should apply in ST aswell
    not really active anymore
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    edited March 2015
    BixHD wrote: »
    Is st.MK good as a poke? I see Boxer players in SF4 use it as such sometimes, so I'm guessing it should apply in ST aswell

    I only really see close standing mk (and close standing hk, same thing) used as a tick in ST, and rarely at that.

    Balrog_stclfrwrd2_stclrh2.png

    Far standing mk and hk are kinda useless imo.

    Balrog_stfarfrwrd2.png Balrog_stfarrh3.png

    Post edited by x64 on
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    BixHD wrote: »
    Is st.MK good as a poke? I see Boxer players in SF4 use it as such sometimes, so I'm guessing it should apply in ST aswell

    Not really. It's a cancellable poke at close ranges, which lets you try out some funky frame traps and style points in your attack string, but it's not really a core part of his gameplay.

    As far as the neutral game goes, his st.HP, cr.MP, cr.MK, cr.HK, special moves, cr.HP or st.MP (anti-airs), are WAY more important. It's all quite matchup dependent though. Learning how to have a strong rush game and incorporate all these things + specials and supers into your attack patterns is just as important.
  • BixHDBixHD Semi-lurker Joined: Posts: 193
    I only really see close standing mk (and close standing hk, same thing) used as a tick in ST, and rarely at that.
    Far standing mk and hk are kinda useless imo.
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Not really. It's a cancellable poke at close ranges, which lets you try out some funky frame traps and style points in your attack string, but it's not really a core part of his gameplay.

    As far as the neutral game goes, his st.HP, cr.MP, cr.MK, cr.HK, special moves, cr.HP or st.MP (anti-airs), are WAY more important. It's all quite matchup dependent though. Learning how to have a strong rush game and incorporate all these things + specials and supers into your attack patterns is just as important.

    Yup, tried it out a bit, I think it leaves your lower self vulnerable a lot. st.HK looks like it might make an anti-air... maybe.
    not really active anymore
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    edited March 2015
    BixHD wrote: »
    Yup, tried it out a bit, I think it leaves your lower self vulnerable a lot. st.HK looks like it might make an anti-air... maybe.

    Your anti-air go to normals are crouching HP and standing MP. If you haven't already found it, take a look here: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Balrog_(ST)
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    BixHD wrote: »
    it leaves your lower self vulnerable a lot. st.HK looks like it might make an anti-air... maybe.

    You only use it as part of an attack string. It's not reliable at all in the neutral game.

    St.HK is pretty useless compared to his other ridiculously good normals. Like previously stated, cr.HP and st.MP are his best anti-airs. As far as special moves go, his headbutt, rush upper (surprise, long distance AA), and super are his best AAs.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    does Balrog have a similar OS to hawk's dp/ 360 ?
    lets say rog safe jumps with jab, then cr jab, then grab attempt + up n punch, so if opponent reversal, his grab attempt gets canceled into buffalo headbutt?

    Look at 11:45 of video:

    Does anyone know how to do this consistently? A rog player on Fightcade did it against my honda with great success a few months ago (ochio be damned) and it got me curious.

    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    does Balrog have a similar OS to hawk's dp/ 360 ?
    lets say rog safe jumps with jab, then cr jab, then grab attempt + up n punch, so if opponent reversal, his grab attempt gets canceled into buffalo headbutt?

    Look at 11:45 of video:

    Does anyone know how to do this consistently? A rog player on Fightcade did it against my honda with great success a few months ago (ochio be damned) and it got me curious.

    I believe it's possible (at least, various people have told me so), but I could never get it to work. I have a feeling if it was consistently doable then all you'd ever see is this mixup, similar to how T.Hawk is played. It reminds me of some of the crazy OS's that MysteriousFighter would do with Ryu, yet I never saw any other Ryu players use them. Probably comes down to inconsistency and therefore becoming an unreliable crutch.
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    I believe it's possible (at least, various people have told me so), but I could never get it to work. I have a feeling if it was consistently doable then all you'd ever see is this mixup, similar to how T.Hawk is played. It reminds me of some of the crazy OS's that MysteriousFighter would do with Ryu, yet I never saw any other Ryu players use them. Probably comes down to inconsistency and therefore becoming an unreliable crutch.

    I tried looking up my replay data in fightcade but it turns out it was slightly before Fightcade's start. The dude who did it so well was called "DAIGO" on GGPO. Obviously not Umehara. No idea who he really is.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Balrog vs Chun theory time. What are you supposed to do against a Chun player that spams the shit out of cr mk and has excellent reversal ability and reaction time? Seems like rog has no answer outside of super. It beats all of rog's ground arsenal it seems like :/
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Balrog vs Chun theory time. What are you supposed to do against a Chun player that spams the shit out of cr mk and has excellent reversal ability and reaction time? Seems like rog has no answer outside of super. It beats all of rog's ground arsenal it seems like :/

    Build meter first, then go in. Even Chun has to respect a super that can punish a cr.mk at half screen. Sweeps at max range tend to trade in his favor, safe jumps work very well against Chun, Boxer's short jump arc can be hard to AA consistently depending on your timing, and a normal straight rush trades against her legs.

    Tons of footage available on youtube to study from. Tsuji vs. Otochun pops up quite a lot, and you may be able to find Shiki vs. Chun with some hard digging.
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    edited July 2015
    Balrog vs Chun theory time. What are you supposed to do against a Chun player that spams the shit out of cr mk and has excellent reversal ability and reaction time? Seems like rog has no answer outside of super. It beats all of rog's ground arsenal it seems like :/

    I've never played a Chun who spams cr.MK, although I don't think that it's as strong of a counter to Boxer as you think.
    Maybe try trading with jab rush from the correct range against cr.MK. By correct range I basically mean the very tip of Boxer's glove.

    Balrog_lrush4.png

    Crouching roundhouse is also excellent at trading with her normals, so you could try that. If it trades it's in your favour too, plus you get the knockdown into further mixups. This is all assuming that you're "losing" the neutral game because she has upkicks to stop you jumping in or trying to TAP to get in. Like eltrouble said, feel free to build meter as another option since you're not really pressured by a defensive cr.MK.

    The way Chun usually wins is by zoning with lightning legs into kikouken, having upkicks charged and ready to go in case of TAP or a jump-in. If she gets a knockdown you'll probably eat a throw or two given how godlike her throw is in this game. Once she gets super your offense is essentially shut down as well.

    The way Boxer wins is getting a knockdown and then maximizing damage off that with mixups. Once you have super you can shutdown her fireball game. It's relatively hard to win the neutral game in this matchup, although there are things like trading with legs and kikouken by using st.HP or the straight rush. Sometimes you can catch them doing lightning legs without a down charge and jump at her with j.fierce into grab (aka the "Tamashima grab"), for example. If she switches to zoning with kikoukens then you generally try and build meter quickly with headbutts and short rushes, otherwise you won't be able to get in. Overall it's still a slightly unfavourable matchup but definitely winnable.

    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Overall it's still a slightly unfavourable matchup but definitely winnable.

    I used to think Rog had a slight advantage in this match but I agree Chun wins this 5.5-4.5 or something like that. I usually don't have that big of an issue with Chun, but KushYu on fightcade has an amazingly great gameplan for Chun vs Rog. I don't think I've ever feared that cr.MK as much as when he uses it as a pressure tool (into combo or throw threat or whatever). Wish I could easily turn fightcade replays into youtube videos so I can point directly to the matches.

    If anyone's bored and doesn't mind waiting for the balrog vs chun fights to give me some insight I'd appreciate it (I play Honda/Rog and a little Hawk here while Kush plays mostly Ryu and Chun): fightcade://challenge-6105-1436564266.70@ssf2xj
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Alright. Lets talk about Balrog's super and the "random" lag occurrence that happens occasionally that allows him to be hit (or thrown, or swept) after the 2nd or 3rd hit. Anyone have any notes here on how it usually happens and how to avoid it? Seems like it usually happens when the opponent is in the corner and usually happens more against a blocking opponent than one getting hit.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I remember it happening frequently when I am quite near the corner, yet not with my back against the invisible wall.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    I remember it happening frequently when I am quite near the corner, yet not with my back against the invisible wall.

    Good point. I think I recall something similar. Wish there was more data on this.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited August 2015
    Wrong message - should be deleted
    Post edited by oldschool_BR on
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Seems to be spacing dependent. Happens more frequently when the punches connect at far distances. I've never seen it happen when the opponent is in the corner and Balrog lands the super deep.
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