Balrog Thread

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  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    tap is good in some situations, but rogs mixup short rush grab stuff is also very powerful vs some chars, vs dj for example i dont use tap anymore, my brother can see it and flash kick it so i gotta use his cheap rushes and grabs instead.
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    double post
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    basics, go behind opponnt low forward, low strong, low jab dash punch or instead do low forward then grab, as an alternate, act as if you'll go under then low roundhouse from the front.
    GRAHAM


    Give me tips on rushing down WW Guile w/ST Boxer plz >=O
    This dude is the only thing keeping me from dominating Okinawa


    WW Guile is so full of BS I swear to God
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
    Comic-Z vs Super Metroid Watch if you want to lose your mind
  • ShagShag The Chessmaster Joined: Posts: 718
    My advice is don't play AE. heh heh :razz:

    Does he spaz on cr.fw after a sonic boom. Does he redizzy you with repeated jab/shorts. I have felt your pain. :sad:

    Training for Evo I spent my time focusing on anti-CE Bison and neglected strats against WW/CE Guile. Lost to 2 CE Guile players. :annoy:
    Juffo-Wup fills in my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent action ensues.
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    My advice is don't play AE. heh heh :razz:

    Does he spaz on cr.fw after a sonic boom. Does he redizzy you with repeated jab/shorts. I have felt your pain. :sad:

    Training for Evo I spent my time focusing on anti-CE Bison and neglected strats against WW/CE Guile. Lost to 2 CE Guile players. :annoy:
    =p My problem is they don't have a dedicated ST board in use on island, they only use HSF. If I was in Tokyo I'd have no issues(but would be getting beasted 7 ways from Tuesday). lol

    And yeah, it's nothin but c.fwdxn, Sonic Boom, return to c.fwdxn, pisses me off. Which is funny, because when he actually wants to play the game he loses to me HARD.

    I can occasionally hit c.fwd with mine, but the trade is in his favor. I haven't gotten any luck trying to trade with c.RH. Of course doing anything else results in a flash kick, trying to walk forward gets me c.fwd'ed, and dash punches don't get very far(random sonic boom when he has me just out of range of c.fwd, hits before I swing) unless I time them REAL well, which still results in a block and I'm stuck in a range where he pretty much beats everything I got for free w/c.fwd so I can't even start throw shenanigans. Even TAP loses to c.fwd. that move is such bullshit.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Did you read the thread? :confused: Graham answered this 2 posts above yours. To add on, you could try doing combos with cr.LP or cr.MP after you walk under them but cr.MK mixups are your best bet.

    ...yea, i actually did read the thread, well i skimmed over it:sweat: my bad. good lil mixups tho.
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    Two Rog Questions

    First, no one answered my previous question. When doing the two low jabs in to super, is it jab, jab, back forward back forward, jab AND fierce together or jab and then fierce?

    Second, from what I understand Rog has a couple frames of vulnerability in the beginning of his flash kick maneuver, so if you were knocked down and had chun doing lightning legs on top of you before you got up you shouldn't be able to wake up flash kick reversal should you?
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    Two Rog Questions

    First, no one answered my previous question. When doing the two low jabs in to super, is it jab, jab, back forward back forward, jab AND fierce together or jab and then fierce?

    Second, from what I understand Rog has a couple frames of vulnerability in the beginning of his flash kick maneuver, so if you were knocked down and had chun doing lightning legs on top of you before you got up you shouldn't be able to wake up flash kick reversal should you?
    It's jab~fierce. You're whiff cancelling the s.jab into the super.

    And yes, you can use Headbutt as a reversal, just make sure he lunges far forward enough to hit her, IIRC Jab doesn't get her if she tries to do legs at the tip of its range.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I actually just learned how to position my fingers on the stick to do TAP I normally have my thumb on lk my ring finger on mk and my pinky on hk leaving my middle and my index free to attack with punch buttons. it takes a little getting used to but thats what ive been doing and its working for me pretty well

    I do have a question though. How does rog do a headbut to super. PLaying against afro legends he does that pretty often and i was wondering how its done. Thanks guys
  • ShagShag The Chessmaster Joined: Posts: 718
    I do have a question though. How does rog do a headbut to super. PLaying against afro legends he does that pretty often and i was wondering how its done. Thanks guys

    You first start charging :db:. You can do the headbutt by going to :ub:. By doing this you don't lose the back charge needed for Balrog to do his super. When you land, you can do the super motion and the super should go out.
    Juffo-Wup fills in my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent action ensues.
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Can anyone help me w/ Balrogs mirror match? What are some good tips?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yeah thats something I would like to know too. AS well as Rog vs Chun. She is such a bitch to fight against
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    To Graham: If i upload a few vids of my 'rog, would you check them out to give some tips? I'm also waiting for some tips in Rog's mirror match.

    Also: What are 'rogs worst matchups, besides honda / sim?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Graham: I need to thank YOU and everyone that made this great thread. Yesterday i won a local ST torunament (in Santo Domingo) using all the techniques described here..

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

    Yeah i have alot of problems with that match up too. Lariat ends up beating out dash lows at times and keeps rog from jumping in with hp/hk. I end up jumping in with MP most of the time against geif and it works. When geif jumps i end up mashing jab to keep him away too. But the match up hs very hard for me to win. Any suggestions??? And did graham like die or something? He hasnt posted in a good while =(
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I guess this thread is dead then <_<
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What's the largest hitting combo you can do with the boxer?

    One time I did a 5 hit combo, but I'm not very good. Jumping strong (immediately charge) two ducking jabs a standing jab then a weak dash punch.

    What are just some good combos in general? Any dizzy combos?
  • Aaron BrooksAaron Brooks Joined: Posts: 185
    Off of about any jump in you can land, jab, jab, standing jab, fierce normal rush punch on moderate to big characters. (assuming you are fairly close) As far as I can tell you can only do one of the crouch jabs on smaller characters. You can also do something like standing mk into high rush, because i believe the high rush has less charge time. You can do crouch jab times 1 or 2, standing jab super, or just crouch jab times 2 into renda kara cancel super. You can probably renda kara the low rush for a combo to hit crouching characters.. but that seems hard. It seems like the only good set ups for balrog jump in combos are safe jumps and dizzies.

    As far as ground combos, you can link c mk into c mp and cancel the mp into low rush.

    Does that all sound right?
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
    Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

    Practical combos:
    cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
    safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
    j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

    Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

    To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.
    It was a fun ten years.

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  • Aaron BrooksAaron Brooks Joined: Posts: 185
    Are there any knockdown combos that work on crouching characters besides combo into super? I was trying to do renda kara low rush.. but as far as i can tell that's impossible.
    Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
    Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

    Practical combos:
    cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
    safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
    j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

    Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

    To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

    Actually, if Balrog knows how to fight Zangief, the fight becomes largely 50/50. Jab Low Rush with Punch beats the Lariats if you distance it properly. But Zangief can whiff stand jabs a lot which will hit the Low RUshes before they reach Zangief, discouraging you from doing the move. But Balrog can Stand Fierce Zangief from the same rance he wants to do the Low Rush, which will beat or trade with Gief's Stand Jab. And, of course, Zangief can Lariat the Fierce. So you can bait him into doing the Lariat and Low Rush him.

    It's cyclical, but it makes the fight much more manageable to Balrog. Good Zangiefs WILL make this a very hard fight, but a good Balrog will make the fight much more honest.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Zangief can cripple boxer's options with crouching roundhouse, a much better tool than standing jabs. Cr roundhouse mixed in with lariats can really lock down and push Boxer back into the corner with very little skill.
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Good Balrog players will wait for Low Roundhouse, then react with a Low Rush Punch on whiff if you do it that much. Zangief may block in time, but there is little else he can do. Maybe try for a miracle SPD, but good luck there. You won't win many match ups going for things like that.

    But you're right, it's a good weapon, but you cannot use it too much. Balrogs who learn the right distnace to Low Rush Punch make the fight hard. I don't think the fight is in Balrog's favor, but I don't think it's in Zangief's either. I feel like this match is almost 50/50.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Good Balrog players will wait for Low Roundhouse, then react with a Low Rush Punch on whiff if you do it that much. Zangief may block in time, but there is little else he can do. Maybe try for a miracle SPD, but good luck there. You won't win many match ups going for things like that.

    But you're right, it's a good weapon, but you cannot use it too much. Balrogs who learn the right distnace to Low Rush Punch make the fight hard. I don't think the fight is in Balrog's favor, but I don't think it's in Zangief's either. I feel like this match is almost 50/50.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com


    I guess you would know more than i would lol. But I have a really hard time fighting this match up. Its really hard for me to stay on Geif with out getting grabbed or random lariet. It sucks =(
  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    I guess you would know more than i would lol. But I have a really hard time fighting this match up. Its really hard for me to stay on Geif with out getting grabbed or random lariet. It sucks =(

    No, admittedly, it looks like the fight is totally in Gief's favor. In fact, I used to believe it too. I remember long ago saying that on agsf2 and Bob Painter, a great Gief player, telling me it wasn't true. I was upset by that 'cause I like Gief and always thought that match was mine.

    But since then, I've fought a lot of good Balrogs who know the fight and it's harder. Zangief is still one of the best characters to FIGHT Balrog, since every other character mostly gets mopped up by him. I just don't think Gief has an overwhelming advatange anymore.

    - James
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com
    http://jchensor.blogspot.com

    "We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing." -- Doyle Brunson

    "Every time you win, it diminishes the fear a little bit. You never really cancel the fear of losing; you keep challenging it." -- Arthur Ashe

    (AV art obtained from here: http://meatbun.us/blog/?p=162)
  • afro legendsafro legends Pugilist Specialist Joined: Posts: 256
    I agree with Chen. That match can be hard for Rog if he gets knocked down, that's why you have to be careful and choose your attacks wisely. Rog has some tools that he can work with. If Gief likes to use the cr. roundhouse a lot, Rog can just standing fierce on the whiff and hit him clean. For Gief's standing jabs, Rog can just st. fierce and trade in Rog's favor. For anti airs, Rog has the st. jabs, st. strong, st. fierce, cr. fierce, and high rush depending on distance and what Gief does. Like Chen said, Rog can low rush Gief's lariat at the right distance. If Rog gets knocked down, it can be trouble so you have to play this match very carefully. Using TAP a lot isn't good cuz Gief can see it and lariat on reaction. Don't let Gief bully and corner you, use the tactics above and fight him. If you are getting near your own corner and happen to knock Gief down, do a jump in combo that ends with a low rush to push him away.

    afro
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I agree with Chen. That match can be hard for Rog if he gets knocked down, that's why you have to be careful and choose your attacks wisely. Rog has some tools that he can work with. If Gief likes to use the cr. roundhouse a lot, Rog can just standing fierce on the whiff and hit him clean. For Gief's standing jabs, Rog can just st. fierce and trade in Rog's favor. For anti airs, Rog has the st. jabs, st. strong, st. fierce, cr. fierce, and high rush depending on distance and what Gief does. Like Chen said, Rog can low rush Gief's lariat at the right distance. If Rog gets knocked down, it can be trouble so you have to play this match very carefully. Using TAP a lot isn't good cuz Gief can see it and lariat on reaction. Don't let Gief bully and corner you, use the tactics above and fight him. If you are getting near your own corner and happen to knock Gief down, do a jump in combo that ends with a low rush to push him away.

    afro

    Post more often scrub. lol

    And thanks for the advice i will put it to use
  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    does anybody know how to fight blanka i am trying to use tips from this forum posts to help my skill in Champ edition
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    I think Zangief is one of Boxer's worst matchups, if not the worst.

    I used to think that, it still is somewhat valid but not nearly as bad after i learned the proper way to play the match watching daigo play my brother with his rog vs my brothers gief.

    But the best strat vs gief is one my brother created which is stupidly simple, just keep pressing low strong.
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    Biggest Boxer combo I've seen is 12 hits:
    Against crouching Zangief, cross-up j.Fierce (or j.RH), cr.Jab x6, super

    Practical combos:
    cr.Forward, cr.Strong xx low rush
    safe jump Jab, cr.Jab x2->st.Jab xx high rush
    j.RH, st.Forward xx low kick rush (the one that knocks down)

    Also, you can link the super after his cr.Forward.

    To dizzy the opponent, Daigo uses meaty cr.Forward, far st.Fierce.


    ok my favorite combos are these for anyone looking for some bad ass rog combos that arent too hard to do.

    Dizzy:
    simple combo:
    Jumpin roundhouse/fierce, low strong, low kick rush with short (knockdown)
    highest damage combo:
    jumpin roundhouse/fierce, 2 lob jab, standing jab, straight fierce rush punch

    on wakeup:
    low forward early, low strong, low jab dash punch

    after grabbing them and walking behind:
    low forward early, low strong, low jab dash punch

    on wakeup for quick dizzy:
    low forward early, standing fierce (on big chars)

    on jumpin on certain chars during fireball (chun li for example)
    refer to simple combo

    on jumpin on sagat for example if he does low fireball:
    jumping roundhouse, standing fierce (connects cause opponent is ducking)

    simple super combo when they're dizzy or on wakeup:
    jumpin forward or jab or strong (see it hit, cant use fierce or roundhouse or you wont be able to get the full amount of jabs), 2 low jabs, standing jab, super
  • Aaron BrooksAaron Brooks Joined: Posts: 185
    Did anybody mention that zangief can punish balrog super with 360/720? Something worth knowing about that match. Almost worth learning the balrog combo into super just for that reason.
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    GRAHAM


    Give me tips on rushing down WW Guile w/ST Boxer plz >=O
    This dude is the only thing keeping me from dominating Okinawa


    WW Guile is so full of BS I swear to God

    help me plz :sad:
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
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  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    help me plz :sad:

    well its a losing battle, youll have to accept that. But ways to win are like this. You need to use alot of grabbing. Dont charge the TAP , just do rushdown with short low dash and grab, also do low forwards and low jab dashes along with standing fierces. Chances are youll lose but if you can grab enough youll win. thats all i can say is cheap cheap cheap.
  • Axel KellyAxel Kelly Joined: Posts: 1,481
    whoa whoa whoa whoa....
    Balrog actually has four dashes. He has two punch dashes, but he also
    has two kick dashes. The second kick dash is done the same way the low
    punch dash is done - from back to down/forward. The animation is very
    similar, but it looks more like a low fierce than a dash, and balrog
    comes rushing in while crouched. The advantage of this dash is that by
    charging low back to foward/down, you can conserve charge for the BH.
    I also think (but I'm not sure) that it recovers faster than the high
    dash.
    taken from:
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.sf2/tree/browse_frm/thread/5f979a1f774fa885/e6c88151206c16ff?rnum=1&q=julien+balrog&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.games.sf2%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F5f979a1f774fa885%2F4c989fe12b3f1471%3Flnk%3Dgst%26q%3Djulien+balrog%26rnum%3D9%26#doc_4c989fe12b3f1471

    That's not true, is it?
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    well its a losing battle, youll have to accept that. But ways to win are like this. You need to use alot of grabbing. Dont charge the TAP , just do rushdown with short low dash and grab, also do low forwards and low jab dashes along with standing fierces. Chances are youll lose but if you can grab enough youll win. thats all i can say is cheap cheap cheap.
    That's what I figured, but he's been able to counterthrow the fuck out of me. Thanks bro. =D


    What's funny is, he recently went up to mainland to take a job up in Nagoya for 6 months, so this is the beginning of my 6 month rule over Okinawa. lol Headbutt throw crossup mixups FTW.
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  • dogberrydogberry l33t OG Sagat tactics Joined: Posts: 358
    Graham:

    I was wondering if you could break down the Balrog/Dhalsim match.

    What is the best time to release the TAP? Like when you see that sim is hesitating about whether to throw a yoga fire or when you need to close the distance should sim happen to be in the air?

    It seems to me that the game plan is to look for hesitant moments/missed moves from sim and then close in/trade hits. Is that it or is there something else?
  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Good question. I just finished 3rd in a tournament, for losing to 'sim..

    PLEASE Graham, can you break this fight?
    "He´s different, he´s special." Pick up your spear, the only thing you can do is your best
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ok... this isn't the "ASK GRAHAM" Balrog thread. I'm sure he's not going to do that kinda stuff, so think up strategies and post them yourselves.

    As far as Sim vs Rog... I would use the TAP whenever you're pretty certain that there won't be a fireball coming. I.e. headbutt through a fireball, release TAP. Jump Straight up over fireball, TAP. Etc. You're trying to hit/trade w/ his pokes. So, release TAP when you think he's going to poke!

    Ok. I got beat by a pure wall dive vega in a tourney the other day. And I was super pissed. So I'm going to share some thoughts on it.

    1. Vega Can't try to claw in front of you, as then your buffalo headbutt will hit him clean. So 99% it's going to be throw/claw behind
    2. Beware of Reversal Flipkick. The only guarunteed knockdowns he has to set up the walldive shenanigans are slide, flipkick, and izuna drop. Throw is too fast and can be teched.
    3. If you are standing, use HK rush when you see him go to the wall. You will either tag him, or if you were too late, you're safely out of the way.
    4. Make sure you get enough charge time when you do get knocked down for headbutt. Try multi release to ensure you'll get one.
    5.If you have a lead, the corner is your friend.

    Anyone else want to add thoughts?
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  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    Ok... this isn't the "ASK GRAHAM" Balrog thread. I'm sure he's not going to do that kinda stuff, so think up strategies and post them yourselves.

    As far as Sim vs Rog... I would use the TAP whenever you're pretty certain that there won't be a fireball coming. I.e. headbutt through a fireball, release TAP. Jump Straight up over fireball, TAP. Etc. You're trying to hit/trade w/ his pokes. So, release TAP when you think he's going to poke!

    Ok. I got beat by a pure wall dive vega in a tourney the other day. And I was super pissed. So I'm going to share some thoughts on it.

    1. Vega Can't try to claw in front of you, as then your buffalo headbutt will hit him clean. So 99% it's going to be throw/claw behind
    2. Beware of Reversal Flipkick. The only guarunteed knockdowns he has to set up the walldive shenanigans are slide, flipkick, and izuna drop. Throw is too fast and can be teched.
    3. If you are standing, use HK rush when you see him go to the wall. You will either tag him, or if you were too late, you're safely out of the way.
    4. Make sure you get enough charge time when you do get knocked down for headbutt. Try multi release to ensure you'll get one.
    5.If you have a lead, the corner is your friend.

    Anyone else want to add thoughts?

    watch the vid on youtube of me vs my brother at evo west, youll see alot of well timed Tap's if you need a visual understanding of when i use em

    keep in mind rogs lifebar is also there to take a beating as he dishes it out, trading hits is fine on any attack, youll alwys hit harder on nearly any opponent.
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