Balrog Thread

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  • Xeno-VXeno-V Joined: Posts: 129
    Guys do you have any suggestions for some attack strings that i could use on turtling opponents?
    I use sth like j. mk, cr. lpx2, cr. mp, low jab rush. I know that it won't combo on hit and that it can be reversed after the cr. lpx2 but I guess that it's not that easy, especially when I'm playing online.
    After that I may follow with a lv 1-2 TAP or a straight jab rush (whiff) into throw but I'm sure that there are better things to do and more varied mixups.

    Any suggestions?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Guys do you have any suggestions for some attack strings that i could use on turtling opponents?

    I use sth like j. mk, cr. lpx2, cr. mp, low jab rush.

    End with low dash uppercut instead, then either throw or go into a headbutt.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Need help canceling cr.strong into low dash.

    So I don't know how many opportunities i've had online to get the extra damage. I land meaty cr.forward-cr.strong all the time. But I've only properly canceled it maybe 1/15 times. And that's probably a high estimate. I am on a HRAP 3. So what is the motion I should be doing? As soon as I hit cr.strong button, and before I even see anything come out should I be bringing the stick across for the rush? Anyways any help you can offer would be great. And i'm sorry if this has been asked earlier in the thread. And what buttons should I be pressing for the rush? jab? or negative edge from the cr.strong?
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    So I don't know how many opportunities i've had online to get the extra damage. I land meaty cr.forward-cr.strong all the time. But I've only properly canceled it maybe 1/15 times. And that's probably a high estimate. I am on a HRAP 3. So what is the motion I should be doing? As soon as I hit cr.strong button, and before I even see anything come out should I be bringing the stick across for the rush? Anyways any help you can offer would be great. And i'm sorry if this has been asked earlier in the thread. And what buttons should I be pressing for the rush? jab? or negative edge from the cr.strong?

    Jab or short rush, of course. Try executing it as soon as you see the cr. strong connect (blocked or not). The whole three-in-one should have a steady "rhythm" to it.
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

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  • zerodotjanderzerodotjander Chinaman, Please! Joined: Posts: 304
    What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

    Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

    Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

    Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

    Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?

    I believe you can execute the super whilst being crossed up, yes. But it's generally not a safe move to headbutt on wakeup, as most characters have a safe jump that will completely negate the headbutt. Your safest option is to simply block and be ready for throws or crossup shenanigans.
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

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    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • AirthrowAirthrow Joined: Posts: 4,525
    I just gave up on it. My hands are too big to be holding down KKK with the bottom of my fingers. LvL 1&2 TAPs ftw!

    You don't hold it down with the bottom of your fingers. At first I thought my hands were too big too, but you use the ridge of your palm....

    It's debateable whether large TAPS are worth it, IMO it only is against certain characters.
    RIP Group B Rallying 1982-1986
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    You don't hold it down with the bottom of your fingers. At first I thought my hands were too big too, but you use the ridge of your palm....

    It's debateable whether large TAPS are worth it, IMO it only is against certain characters.

    I recently got lucky and won a match I was gonna lose with a large TAP. That was awesome.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,200
    What are good options for Balrog on wakeup against an opponent that is jumping in for a crossup?

    Reversal headbutt seems pretty obvious, but if you miss the reversal, you can eat a big combo. Plus, depending on how deep they jump in, on occasion I'll get a headbutt out and we'll both whiff, then I get punished on headbutt's recovery.

    Lately I've been trying LK rush on wakeup, which seems to work pretty well so far - it can straight up anti-air them, or move me out from under them and recover immediately in time to either block or headbutt or try something. Is this safe? Also, can it be buffered into super? I feel like you could hold DB, go to DF, press LK, DF turns into DB because they crossed you up, then go back to the other side (now DF) and press punch for super. So you just move the stick from diagonal to the other and back. Does this actually work?

    If it looks like it won't be a meaty crossup, I usually go for a lp low rush. The recovery is so quick that it moves me out of the way and I usually get a free throw out of it.

    If they do it right though (meaty or really damn close to meaty), just block it unless it is Honda/Gief/Hawk (who would almost always nail you with a command grab afterwards).
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Guys, do you have any good strategies and tips against dictator?
    I can't find any real info about this match-up on the Net.

    Thanks!

    Megakuma
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,200
    That's a tough matchup to describe since Bison can be played so many different ways. Some things to note:

    You should be able to counter a blocked slide or knee bash nearly all the time if you are charged with a headbutt. If you have meter, use your super instead of headbutt. Usually GGPO at that point.

    Headbutt will beat just about everything Bison has (pretty much everything except his super I think). Keep this in mind if your opponent likes to constantly throw out annoying standing MKs.

    Jumping HP/HK will stuff the psycho crusher. Use this if you see a psycho coming from a mile away but don't have charge.

    Even though Bison is known for his throw shenanigans, 'Rogs throw shenanigans are better! Do not be afraid to walk under him after a throw, crouch MK, and throw again (try to use the MP throw as it has more range).

    If Bison gets meter, try to bait him to use it while you're blocking. Bison players have a bad habit of attempting to throw out of a blocked super, so you should be ready with a nice headbutt reversal for him to eat.

    Personally, I like to throw Bison in a corner with 'Rog and keep him in a continual state of blockstun. I win this match with 'Rog WAAAY more than I lose it.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • AirthrowAirthrow Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Headbutt loses to lk scissors I believe though.
    RIP Group B Rallying 1982-1986
  • BluebottelBluebottel Joined: Posts: 72
    Does anyone have more input on the sim matchup? Im having serious difficulties with him.
    To be precise i dont really know what to do once im in that kinda-in-but-not-really-so state.
    I predict a fireball, jump it and land safely. What now? I feel naked without the charge for low rush punch and st. fp doesnt seem to do the trick.
    Also, are there any tricks to his fireballtrap? Unless i have the outmost precision in jumping over the fireball, i eat a st. rh or a st. fp just before landing.
    There are no pinguins in Sweden, the polarbears ate them.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    That's a tough matchup to describe since Bison can be played so many different ways. Some things to note:

    You should be able to counter a blocked slide or knee bash nearly all the time if you are charged with a headbutt. If you have meter, use your super instead of headbutt. Usually GGPO at that point.

    Headbutt will beat just about everything Bison has (pretty much everything except his super I think). Keep this in mind if your opponent likes to constantly throw out annoying standing MKs.

    Jumping HP/HK will stuff the psycho crusher. Use this if you see a psycho coming from a mile away but don't have charge.

    Even though Bison is known for his throw shenanigans, 'Rogs throw shenanigans are better! Do not be afraid to walk under him after a throw, crouch MK, and throw again (try to use the MP throw as it has more range).

    If Bison gets meter, try to bait him to use it while you're blocking. Bison players have a bad habit of attempting to throw out of a blocked super, so you should be ready with a nice headbutt reversal for him to eat.

    Personally, I like to throw Bison in a corner with 'Rog and keep him in a continual state of blockstun. I win this match with 'Rog WAAAY more than I lose it.

    Thanks for the info!

    Some more questions:

    - How can I beat or at least trade with his headpress after blocking?
    - Will my super beat his super or is it vice versa?
    - What is the best strategy against a turtle dic? If he's in he'll chip the hell out of me with his normals and scissorkicks.
    - What's the best way to approach him from distance?
  • zerodotjanderzerodotjander Chinaman, Please! Joined: Posts: 304
    Disclaimer: not an expert.

    There's no simple answer for what to do against Sim, it depends on your opponent and a lot of it is just mind games. Fortunately, you win a lot more every time you guess right than he does when he guesses right.

    Various options-

    At absolute full screen, jab headbutt through to build meter, he shouldn't be able to hit you from that far away.

    Jump straight up over the fireball, release TAP when you land. He can cr.MP or cr.HP you out of this, but if you have a higher TAP (5-6) it will be extremely fast and if they are trying to fireball again you'll generally hit them and at least trade. This is also a good option for building meter.

    Jump straight up over the fireball, press jab. You'll stick out your fist, which can stuff some of Sim's attacks. Release TAP when you land.

    Walk forward, block - gain a little ground.

    Jump over, MK - will hit or trade with some attacks.

    Jump over, HP/HK - will hit or trade with different attacks then MK.

    Jump over, MP - will hit or trade with different attacks than MK or HP/HK.

    If you guess right once, that's worth 2-3 times you guess wrong, so mix it up and try to figure out what he is going to do.

    If you are guessing wrong all the time, stay defensive and just do little jab headbutts and higher TAPs.

    Once you have meter, the whole game changes and you have various new options, like jab headbutt, LK rush into super; fierce headbutt, super; jump back in corner, tap, super, etc.

    The most important thing is to capitalize once you get in and knock him down, don't let him push you back out.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Jump straight up over the fireball, release TAP when you land. He can cr.MP or cr.HP you out of this, but if you have a higher TAP (5-6) it will be extremely fast and if they are trying to fireball again you'll generally hit them and at least trade. This is also a good option for building meter.

    Jump straight up over the fireball, press jab. You'll stick out your fist, which can stuff some of Sim's attacks. Release TAP when you land.

    sim punishes straight jumps over fireballs with low jab. so i'm not sure how effective these two strats you bring up are.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • AirthrowAirthrow Joined: Posts: 4,525
    Thanks for the info!

    Some more questions:
    - Will my super beat his super or is it vice versa?

    I believe if neither of you are in invincibility frames anymore then his super will beat yours or trade. It might be possible to time yours later so you have more invincibility frames, but since his super is a scissor kick which beats rushes, I think in general you get lucky if it even trades instead of losing.

    This is off the top of my head though, but I sure don't remember ever being in a match and thinking I could punish his super with mine.
    - What is the best strategy against a turtle dic? If he's in he'll chip the hell out of me with his normals and scissorkicks.
    Throw, d/f+short kickrush>throw. You can't tech get thrown by a crouching opponent. Deep Jump in RH him all day which will beat anything he can do crouching (unless you shallow jump, which he can cr. fierce).
    - What's the best way to approach him from distance?

    Jump a lot with RH and j. jab to beat a lot of his stuff, then straight punches and taps, low rush is less good against Dic because of scissors.
    RIP Group B Rallying 1982-1986
  • AceKombatAceKombat (́◕◞౪◟◕‵) ”WINNERS DON’T USE ALMIGHTY.” Joined: Posts: 2,111
    Most of the time when I play Balrog against Kens/Ryus , I just turtle and dodge fireballs by the leapfrog move . Than depending what happens next , I either charge attack if they jump back or jump and attack if they do a hadouken . The others I pretty much charge in and do throw or charge sweep thing , one thing a lot of people fall for when I play online ( and its unbearable lag for PS3 :( ) .

    Thank yall for the nice tips for us Balrog players :D

    Off topicness :( : What ever happen to this one persons avatar that had a defeat background with dudley signature against a defeated Ken ? I loved that avatar animation lol ! GUTTER... TRASH !
    With all the hope combined... there can be a chance in SFV that Ken can, one day, walk again. #TeamWheelchair
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  • zerodotjanderzerodotjander Chinaman, Please! Joined: Posts: 304
    sim punishes straight jumps over fireballs with low jab. so i'm not sure how effective these two strats you bring up are.
    This obviously works better at longer ranges, and I believe your jump straight up jab will beat his low jab.
  • FakeShakesFakeShakes Joined: Posts: 90
    just to make sure- how do different taps work? as far as i know:

    lower taps = more startup, less hitframes, +frames galore on block
    higher taps = less startup, more hitframes, less +frames on block

    pls correct me if im wrong
  • AirthrowAirthrow Joined: Posts: 4,525
    I dunno if Balrog has any guaranteed dizzy combos, I don't think so. I have seen jump in, low mp, short kickrush dizzy a lot though.

    He doesn't have any easy combos into super. You can jump in (charge), low jab, forward, back+jab, f+P (super_.

    You can also do cr. mk, forward, back+short, f+P (super).

    Also cr. jab x3 >super works with the trick I think.

    Just straight cr. mk super works too.

    the only one I have done in a real game before was cr. mk>super, and cr. jab x 2 (or 3 on fat characters, or skinny ones if you are hella fast), st. jab, super.

    To chain any jab or st. short into combo you have to do the back, forward trick.
    RIP Group B Rallying 1982-1986
  • JiiIgSJiiIgS YoUuuHoUuu Joined: Posts: 72
    Does Balrog have any cross overs? I think I've seen afro legends do it a couple of times but I don't know how.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    You can cross with Foward, and Floating Fierce (this one is a little trickier).
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  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,163
    Could anyone help me a bit with the Ryu matchup? I have a lot of trouble getting past hadoukens with Rog, I get sweeped, RH Tatsumaki'd or j.RH'd every time I attempt to use headbutts to evade them, and psychic DP's fuck my TAPs up.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hey all,

    does anyone have any tips for Honda/Cammy/Claw players? They are becoming incredibly frustration, especially during laggy matches Honda totally wrecks me.

    And as the poster somewhere above said (I think :P) buffallo headbutts are being frequently met with jab shoryukens or cr.HK's against Ryu/Ken players a lot, any advice for that? I've tried keeping to jab headbutts and when punishing the sweep with a rush, but this will often lead to eating a fireball depending on the distance.

    Also what are Rog's options against a downed Shoto? I usually go for a cr.LP, then if they block it attempt to throw if they arent very good, otherwise I just try to time a low rush for when they get up, I just dont know what other safe options Rog has.

    Cheers in advance
    Adrian
  • Master BigodeMaster Bigode Touhoufag Joined: Posts: 879
    Balrog's best meaty is c.mk IMO, balrog often recovers before you can get hit by an reversal DP, same goes for c.lp.
    Max range c.mp is pretty good too.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Honda - st.LPs beat headbutt. I notice in a lot of the high level matches, Rog players use st.HP a lot to keep Hondas from walking in.

    Cammy - Shouldn't be much trouble. The risk vs reward of being aggressive is highly in Rog's favor in this match. Once you get the lead you can turtle a bit as she really can't do much.

    Claw - cr.MK works great. HP headbutt for the dives.

    Against fireballing shotos, you should almost exclusively be using LP headbutts as you said. st.HP trades with fireballs. You can do low rush into a headbutt. You can jump straight up and HP and move slightly forward.Don't hesitate to just walk forward and block either.

    If you gonna meaty with cr.MK, go into the combo (cr.MK, cr.MP into LP low rush).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Honda - st.LPs beat headbutt. I notice in a lot of the high level matches, Rog players use st.HP a lot to keep Hondas from walking in.

    Cammy - Shouldn't be much trouble. The risk vs reward of being aggressive is highly in Rog's favor in this match. Once you get the lead you can turtle a bit as she really can't do much.

    Claw - cr.MK works great. HP headbutt for the dives.

    Against fireballing shotos, you should almost exclusively be using LP headbutts as you said. st.HP trades with fireballs. You can do low rush into a headbutt. You can jump straight up and HP and move slightly forward.Don't hesitate to just walk forward and block either.

    If you gonna meaty with cr.MK, go into the combo (cr.MK, cr.MP into LP low rush).

    Thanks for the advice, i've started using more st.HPs in general they seem to stuff a lot of things I wouldnt have thought they would, i've managed to get round a bunch of the headbutts with st.LPs but in general I still lose horribly to Honda, occasionaly if im at the right range I can headbutt through the HHS, but most of the time I find myself eating Ohicho throws, whats the best way to avoid that?

    For some reason cammy causes me no end of trouble I guess I need to pay more attention to her options but for some reason everything I do gets stuff and if I try to do ANYTHING to her on wakeup I get a thrust kick to the face, maybe the cammy players i've come up across are just really good. Although since i've started using more cr.MK and st.HP i've been winning against her a lot more.

    Thanks for the advice on shoto's, i've been watching some Tsuji vids and it would appear that if I started using the straight up HP to push myself forward, then immidietly jump I can avoid it gaining significant ground.

    Should be getting a stick towards the end of the week (one of the nice SFIV TE ones along with my copy of IV ;)) so i'll be putting in a lot more rog practice.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,163
    Against Honda, start the round with jump back fierce. If Honda tries headbutt, you'll beat him cleanly. If he didn't headbutt, then start doing repeated standing jabs. This will stop headbutts and buttslams. If he headbutts and gets hit by a jab, immediately low rush him. Then jump back and start with the jabs again.

    If you see him walking forward when he doesn't have super, low rush. If you see him jump, high rush. If you block his super you can punish him with low rush or super. If he sticks HHS out too long, low rush.

    Honda will try to gain ground walking forward and using crouching / standing jabs to stop your rushes (cr.Jab beats your standing fierce, too). If he manages to get too close, cr.MP beats his cr.Jabs.

    You need to play this matchup very defensively, rushing Honda will get you killed quickly.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Cronopio:

    Thanks for the advice, i've been playing this matchup very defensively after the first few times I tried to rush him getting nearly perfected each time lol.

    It's good to know that cr.MP beats out his cr.Jabs I need to learn to use cr.MP a lot more than I do.

    Thanks for the info on jumping back fierce at the start of a match too, i've startled a few honda's that way since :D
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I remember at one evo there was a japanese player that did this one interesting trick with rog....it reminded me of playing the boss where they do like 3 dash uppercuts in a row whiffed, and was surprised that was possible. does anybody know how to do it?
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Totally agree with you on the O. Ken thing though, I would definately like some tips on that fight. Short Kick rush>super to blow through fireballs doesn't work very much, plus headbutting through fireballs=Shoto walk forward and st. MP, it's an amazingly tough fight and I have to get really lucky on trading charged TAPs, which is risky as hell.

    Does MP straight rush trade with fireballs like in the Chun fight?

    Yes it does. If he jumps back I find you can do a Fierce straight rush to catch him before he lands too.
    The low short rush > super works, but only after he jumps back, it gives you just enough time to catch up before he does the fireball.

    Still, this matchup drives me crazy. His dragon punch makes it hard for me to really pressure him, and if you fuck up, you have to start all over again.
    Is it just me, or is this truly one of the hardest matchups for Rog? Also, is it just me, or are all O.Ken players huge assholes?
    Roald Dhalsim
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    When playing O.Kens just learn the exact landing frame and adjust your timing accordingly. I repeatedly throw out random safe attacks to keep my timing and to confuse the opponent. ESP. O.Ken, bait his stupid DP then use Short Low Rush Upper to counter (BE SURE ON THE TIMING). This works well because once you punish several DP whiffs, they start to realize you can't be fooled by that BS. O.Ken is evil but just sit back and wait for a mistake, I use a lot of mix ups against O.ken (especially waiting after link strings for a whiff DP, works every time:rofl:).

    Be patient with O.Ken, and use low rush Upper to advance, and time the s.fierce to counter wiffed DP. This works well for me, hope it helps you.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
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  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    When playing O.Kens just learn the exact landing frame and adjust your timing accordingly. I repeatedly throw out random safe attacks to keep my timing and to confuse the opponent. ESP. O.Ken, bait his stupid DP then use Short Low Rush Upper to counter (BE SURE ON THE TIMING). This works well because once you punish several DP whiffs, they start to realize you can't be fooled by that BS. O.Ken is evil but just sit back and wait for a mistake, I use a lot of mix ups against O.ken (especially waiting after link strings for a whiff DP, works every time:rofl:).

    Be patient with O.Ken, and use low rush Upper to advance, and time the s.fierce to counter wiffed DP. This works well for me, hope it helps you.

    When you say learn the exact landing frame, landing out of what exactly? DP?
    I find it hard to bait anything though, because of the stupid fireball keep away.
    I'll see if I can apply these things though. I don't face too many O. Kens and I have been improving against him, but I just need a little extra stuff to make my victories less based on luck.

    Thanks for the advice.:tup:
    Roald Dhalsim
  • TyphonTyphon Joined: Posts: 118
    i need help against guile. No matter what i do he can zone me perfectly with sonic booms. if i do anything but block he hits me somehow. How do i get in close against a guile?
    MvC3: Zero/Sentinel/Tron, SSF4AE: Makoto/Evil Ryu, SSF4: Seth/Makoto, SSF2T: Vega/Balrog, HDR: Honda/Balrog
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  • jpj1983jpj1983 Joined: Posts: 156
    i saw someone do a dash uppercut and go straight into the super. is there a trick to this?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i saw someone do a dash uppercut and go straight into the super. is there a trick to this?

    not really just do
    :l: :df: :lk: :l: :r: :lk:

    it might take a while to get used to but it's not too hard.
  • jpj1983jpj1983 Joined: Posts: 156
    i'd been trying K then P :sweat:

    thanks man
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    i'd been trying K then P :sweat:

    thanks man

    That also works. You don't always want to start with kick super, since the first punch might not connect.
    Btw, you can even do it from a low mk rush, if you time it right.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    That also works. You don't always want to start with kick super, since the first punch might not connect.
    Btw, you can even do it from a low mk rush, if you time it right.

    yeah it seems i can ever get the p one out so i use k. That's cool to know the mk low rush punch works too. Thanks for dropping some knowledge.
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