Sagat thread

orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER!Joined: Posts: 15,633
For those of u who havent read my thread in the SFAC XBL forum then keep in mind i got this game 2 days ago, played about 100 matches on xbl, switched my controls to y=fierce p and b=fierce k, and use the joystick not d-pad.

I mostly use ce sagat simply cuz he's my best guy n i love how u can match ur opponents 3-4 hit combos with a single fierce uppercut. I'm pretty good at turtling and i'd say my best asset is my ability to play mind games by mixing tiger shots for example when the opponent is far away generally i'll throw 2 cr slow shots n then a fast st shot which usually hits there feet as they try to jump over it n then when they figure this out after my first slow cr shot i immediately throw a fast st shot which also works. I also have a habit of alternating fierce st and cr shots which does hella block damage and at mid-close range i walk back and fourth rapidly so when i move back this forces the opponent to jump in cuz theyr thinking that since i'm pressing the back button i won't b fast enough to press :dp: :hp: and that works about 75% of the time.

My major weakspot i'd say is knowing which combos to use and when so any help on combo strats with ce sagat would help alot. What is the most damaging combo with sagat? cuz sagat quickly dizzies the opponent and when i'm in range to do a combo i always do j.weak k+cr.weak k+st. fierce uppercut but when the opponent isn't dizzyed the only combo i can pull off is st.weak p+fierce uppercut. The only practical use i see for tiger knee is for quickly getting close to my opponent and on youtube i've seen sagat users chain j.weak k+cr weak k+fierce tiger knee into a 4 hit combo and i've been practicing this for about 30 mins and can only get the last 3 hits to combo even when i do the j.weak kick very late and i can only do it in the corner so what am i doing wrong?

I noticed that in fighting games in general especially AE i have a foresight where i can predict almost any attack and see it before it comes yet in this game most of the time i can't do anything about it as in react to it cuz half the time i throw an uppercut a tiger shot comes out and visa versa so why is it so hard for me to do moves at will? am i inputting the wrong motions or is it the games slowass framerate?

is ce the only version of sagat i should use?

I would appreciate any general start help and/or links to gameplay videos of ce sagat. Also can i get some character specific matchup help? I completely own st balrog and my worst matchup is ce guile thats all i know so far.
P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
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Comments

  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    i was hoping we could lean away from posting anything to do with that horrid game AE now that evo finals is over. If you want tips for old sagat from super turbo or new sagat, hit me up with em. But any other sagat is trash in my book now.
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 513 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Some CE Sagat combos :

    Jumpin RH, S.Short, Fierce TU (tiger uppercut) (most damaging for CE Sagat)
    Jumpin RH, S.Short, Rh Tiger Knee
    Slow (jab/short) Tiger shot, fast tiger shot (fierce/rh) (2 hit - high stun chance)
    Meaty c. forward, c. roundhouse.


    Advanced Link combos :

    Jumpin Rh , S .Strong, Low short, RH Tiger Knee ( large characters )
    Cross up RH/Short, S.Strong, Fierce Tiger Uppercut
    Jumpin RH , S.Jab x 3, Tiger Knee. (timing the jabs to combo is very precise)
    Meaty Tiger short (corner), walk a bit, Fierce Tiger uppercut. !!
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    THX it took me about 15 minutes to realize that in order to make all 3 hits of his most damaging combo connect i need to do the jump in kick VERY VERY EARLY i was like DAM! even when i do the jump in kickearly it carries over for alot of frames.

    the meaty short with the baited fierce TU is godtier lol i'm surprised ppl actually fall for it.

    OMG i jus realized the craziest thing in training mode against st ryu i did a crouching short jab n then if i JUST press foward after that he does a tiger shot n it counts as a 2 hit combo... WTF?!?!?!?1?!?!?1?!?!1?
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • JorantJorant Joined: Posts: 222
    i was hoping we could lean away from posting anything to do with that horrid game AE now that evo finals is over. If you want tips for old sagat from super turbo or new sagat, hit me up with em. But any other sagat is trash in my book now.

    I'm starting to feel this ST forum's turning into an AE forum... I agree, ST only please?

    Would you say it's foolish to pick N.Sagat over O.Sagat in this game? Isn't the throw escapes and super bar worth at least something to his game? I've never seen on person or one video of him being played N style.
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    I'm starting to feel this ST forum's turning into an AE forum... I agree, ST only please?

    Would you say it's foolish to pick N.Sagat over O.Sagat in this game? Isn't the throw escapes and super bar worth at least something to his game? I've never seen on person or one video of him being played N style.

    the low tiger shot for old sagat is the best fireball in the game hands down. Its only beaten by ww guiles sonic boom. To use anything but old sagat would be just handicapping yourself. New sagat has a few toys but nothing worth giving up that fireball speed.

    as for ce sagat combos. Jump roundhouse, low short, roundhouse tiger knee. Best damage combo in game for ce/hf sagats from ae.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I'm pretty good at turtling and i'd say my best asset is my ability to play mind games by mixing tiger shots

    Big difference between turtling and zoning.
    I also have a habit of alternating fierce st and cr shots which does hella block damage and at mid-close range i walk back and fourth rapidly so when i move back this forces the opponent to jump in cuz theyr thinking that since i'm pressing the back button i won't b fast enough to press and that works about 75% of the time.

    You say this like you're the first one to do it or something.

    As for N. Sagat, his super blows, and he doesn't really have anything new besides the multi-hit tiger uppercut which is more of a handicap than anytihng.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    Other then ce guile which is blatantly obvious to even me what are ce sags's bad matchups?

    kyokuji: LOL sry i didn't clarify but i know i'm turtling when i use my tiger shots cuz i rarely use tiger shots as a means for advancing into rushdown mode...i'm not sure but i think that's what tiger knee is mainly for.

    What is the ideal distance for ce sag? His keepaway game is godtier but i also noticed that the distance between mid and close is sort of a sweetspot cuz it's kind of close but not rly so it kind of baits the oppnent to jump...or u get at least 1 good clean fierce through so when they'r knocked down to i advance or stay far away?

    To me it look like the jump roundhouse+short combo does the same amount of damage whether i use tiger knee or uppercut at the end so am i missing something? And as long as we're on combos when if ever is the right time to use anything+tigershot combo?
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    actually sagat beats guile, he loses to st balrog and dhalsim.
  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    Really? wow um i jus based my opinion off my matches with "whole neo geo" who is ranked 48 in AE cuz i raped his st balrog with my tiger shots evry single time but whenever him or anyone else picks cd guile i get owned in the face also i assumed that guiles sonic boom combos cud easily take advantage of sagats long reach.

    BTW yeah sim is impossible tiger shots rarely hit and uppercut leaves me in a very very punishable position against sim....do do u have any tips?
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The thing that surprised me about Sagat is the amount of range his Uppercut takes up. When executed correctly you could probably send your opponent flying from one side of the screen to the other because of how much impact it has.
  • TarkanXTarkanX Joined: Posts: 869
    Moves that can be canceled (O.Sagat)
    s.jab (close and far)
    s.strong (close and far)
    s.short (close and far)
    s.forward (close and far)
    s.roundhouse (close)
    c.jab
    c.strong
    c.short
    c.forward


    Anti-airs
    s.strong (far)
    s.fierce (far)
    s.roundhouse (far)
    c.roundhouse
    j.strong
    j.roundhouse
    Tiger uppercut
  • SageSage 伝説の仙人 Joined: Posts: 1,729
    actually sagat beats guile, he loses to st balrog and dhalsim.

    Whats your opinion on old Sagat vs Vega(claw). Everytime i throw a fireball from close range his speed is so fast he just easily jumps over them and hits me in my recovery and whenever im that close in range i easily get outpoked. Any help is appreciated.
    凸(▽皿▽#) FU
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    Whats your opinion on old Sagat vs Vega(claw). Everytime i throw a fireball from close range his speed is so fast he just easily jumps over them and hits me in my recovery and whenever im that close in range i easily get outpoked. Any help is appreciated.

    do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.

    when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.
  • SageSage 伝説の仙人 Joined: Posts: 1,729
    do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.

    when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.

    Yeah i should of thought of that since i do it with Ryu all the time, old Sagat can shoot without much risk against alot of the cast so i can get careless and fireball happy. Thanks for the tips i think they will help me greatly.

    One last question i forgot to add was if Sagat can cleanly reversal DP Vega's rolling claw special on wakeup when the roll is hitting you meaty on one of the active hitting frames. I can never pull it off and eat a dizzy combo. I tried to emulate it and couldnt even get a reversal message. I dont know if im messing up or that move it just crazy good or something.
    凸(▽皿▽#) FU
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    Yeah i should of thought of that since i do it with Ryu all the time, old Sagat can shoot without much risk against alot of the cast so i can get careless and fireball happy. Thanks for the tips i think they will help me greatly.

    One last question i forgot to add was if Sagat can cleanly reversal DP Vega's rolling claw special on wakeup when the roll is hitting you meaty on one of the active hitting frames. I can never pull it off and eat a dizzy combo. I tried to emulate it and couldnt even get a reversal message. I dont know if im messing up or that move it just crazy good or something.

    any move that isnt invincible can be reversal uppercutted by invincible moves if there is a hitbox in the range. This is one of those you must time it perfect or pay the price risks. Its like trying to dp on wakeup vs st bison doing low forward into scissor kick, its not worth it unless you feel your wakeup reversal timing is perfect. If you fail, you dizzy and lose the entire round. But to answer your question, you are failing at timing it properly. Its hard to time things perfect, but if you want , use the rolling piano button pushing method. That means press jab,strong,fierce in consecutive order as you wakeup with your tiger uppercut, thats 6 chances to hit instead of 2 (each time a button is released when doing a special move it activates as well).
  • SageSage 伝説の仙人 Joined: Posts: 1,729
    .

    I figured its possible to reversal it but i guess its just hard to do and since i have no reliable way of testing it and i have nobody to help me i could only ask at the time. I also use the drumming, always good to have sorta like an insurance on moves. I hope ST on CCC2 has a recording mode, that would be great. Thanks again later. :tup:
    凸(▽皿▽#) FU
  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    Sagat's tiger knee

    does anybody know sagat tiger knee would come in handy on this game i been trying to use it to keep the opponent in corners but the opponent just ducks and comes back with a stronger move
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    far anti-air

    go over fireballs (with good timing)

    to quickly get in then throw/DP/etc

    Use your low low fireballs to keep them in the corner. Tiger knee isn't for that (although it could knock them back in the corner if you can read a jump/FB and want to be fancy)
  • SilksSilks What're ya countin'em for? Joined: Posts: 799
    yeah, far anti air and whiff into throw/dp like ^^ he said. Far poking move that knocks down. Its speed catches many offguard.
    Evo2k9 - "OMG, are you SERIOUS? AT WHAT LEVEL IS HE PLAYING AT?"
  • ni-tenni-ten Muscleheads?Hate em! Joined: Posts: 63
    So i picked up sagat. I found the tigerknee a bit useless too. I have a hard time containing oponents in the corner with low tiger shots. Any good tigershot patterns/traps?
    What to do against a good chun li player?
  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    usally when you start off you should throw out a low tiger shot that way the opponent will jump and you can tiger knee him back where he came from
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    If your opponent is in the corner, you should be fb'ing from very far away or else stand closer to them and wait to dp them.
  • JubeiNinja69JubeiNinja69 Playing To Win Joined: Posts: 1,158
    the only use i see for the tiger knee is to hop over fireballs or to get in close after knockdown.
    Strategy Zone lurker
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ^ that's something else too. Using it for transportation after a knockdown is KEY to landing crossups. Whiff a few knees after an anti-air DP/FB to switch sides or put you in range for crossup.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    you can use it to punish blocked dp's, where crouching hk misses.
  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    Bad Sagat match ups

    what are some bad sagat match ups i already sagat vs blanka i can find anyone else maybe chun li but pretty much it that i know of
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    sagat vs blanka

    Er.'
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 915
    I didn't think he had any. Talking about O. Sagat anyway
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • Se7inSe7in Holler. Joined: Posts: 590
    I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sim is very good against Sagat. One major thing is that he can drill/spear over low tigers and hit his arms from really far away. So Sagat loses his main game of lowtigerxN.
  • Axel KellyAxel Kelly Joined: Posts: 1,481
    I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).



    (Last few matches)

    Bad example, I know. Daigo is just a beast with Boxer :sad:
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i think vega does okay vs sagat but still, sagat has an advantage.

    he can react to tiger shots easier than any other character minus sim and once he gets his ambiguous crossup dives in, its hard for sagat (or pretty much anyone except blanka) to get out.

    sagat can avoid the ambiguous crossups by staying in the corner but he gets poked to death in the corner.

    however, all it takes is a few well calculated tiger uppercuts to turn the tides so just gotta man up and balls out vs vega.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
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  • Se7inSe7in Holler. Joined: Posts: 590

    (Last few matches)

    Bad example, I know. Daigo is just a beast with Boxer :sad:

    Yeah, I've seen that, but then again, it's DAIGO. His match with Valle was MUCH closer.

    Back to the topic, why did the topic creator put Chun and Blanka as bad matchups against Thaiger?
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Merged a few posts into this thread...
    It was a fun ten years.

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    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • CapMasterCapMaster OG Pad Player Joined: Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Question for the pros out there.

    Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?
    Reborn ST hustler.
    2009 Gamestop Regional Champion
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What is the exact movement for the tiger knee? The hardest hand motions in the game are the D,DF,F,UF + attack (that's the tiger knee with the kick button right?) and the half circles.

    I don't like not being able to do the tiger knee as it is a quick move against projectiles.

    Do you guys usually jump and buffer the movement, or do you do it from a standstill? I always end up jumping forward when I try from a stand still. Any tips?
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 458
    Sagat prevails

    Old sagat is my primary character. I ruled a lot of wins tonight in CTF.

    Outstanding performance too.
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 458
    Tiger knee is DB,D,DF,F,FU kick. The FU is forward up, so follow the motion quickly then tap kick.
  • 7 5 07 5 0 Joined: Posts: 458
    Question for the pros out there.

    Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?

    It's very similar between CE and Old Sagat. Still old sagat recovers faster in Tiger shots. It's about a half second difference.
    The Tiger Knee however is very different, Old Sagat has farther reach than CE and HF Sagat and can hit opponents in crouching stance easily.

    Old Sagat is a winner.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    CE Sagat also doesn't have a crossup, cancellable s.short, different tiger knee, has unblockable reversals, etc.

    He uses similar firetrap, but everything else is different.
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