Sagat thread

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  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    i ve been playing hyper fighting sagat and been trying to find some differences between hyper fighting and st sagat only differences i found was st sagat tiger knee took more longer to complete than hyper

    oh yeah i think the tiger uppercut invinceblity frames for st sagat is more than hyper fighting
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    There are alot more differences, I wish i had the time to explain between
    hyper fighting SAGAT and O.ST SAGAT
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    who has some advice in the old sagat/ chun matchup for someone who sucks.......not me ......a friend of mine.....

    can you anti-air with anything other than dp?

    anything else would be helpful as well.....for my friend
  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    Standing RH can be a half-decent anti-air, but I've seen it lose to various jump-ins. I've never been able to stuff Guile with it, but it's been a long time since I've played O.Sagat. Uppercut is *usually* your best option for anti-air, and when it's not, you're often better off just blocking the combo.
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  • JubeiNinja69JubeiNinja69 Playing To Win Joined: Posts: 1,158
    so the basic gameplan is tiger shots and when they jump in tiger uppercut.
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  • technique121technique121 Joined: Posts: 218
    uppercuts

    is it best to use sagat's tiger uppercut with jab only or any punch button
  • BluehazeBluehaze SFA Joined: Posts: 240
    I'm trying to find some match videos of the japanese player Yaya playing as Sagat, I haven't had any success on youtube, but also wasn't sure if he had a kanji/japanese name. Thank-you for the help in advance : )

    -Bluehaze
  • Grits'N'GravyGrits'N'Gravy I used to oicho throw people. Joined: Posts: 977
    Question for the pros out there.

    Is it true CE Sagat in AE, in regards to his Tiger Shot's speed and recovery, handles like O. Sagat in ST? if so, is using CE Sagat or Super O. Sagat a better way to practice on AE?

    Some more differences.

    CE Sagat has better high tiger shots. The tiger knee from OG Sagat as that dude hinted at hit's differently than CE Sagat, I think it has to do with the first bit of animation hitting low to the ground so it's better in combos. CE Sagat also doesn't have the 2 hit mk into shot or uppercut.
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  • Grits'N'GravyGrits'N'Gravy I used to oicho throw people. Joined: Posts: 977
    I've heard Boxer is a somewhat bad matchup for him, though I'd like to see the info that supports this. I know Boxer can TAP, headbutt, and low jump over many of the low tigers, and once he gets in, it's fisticuffs, but who doesn't have that type of difficulty with Boxer (Besides Gief, Blanka, and Honda).

    It's all based on the fact that he can charge up and create fear with his super. That wins a lot of the fireballer matches for him. You can use that fear to make him actually play, which means you can get mid and close range and fuck him up... or you can turtle up with the meter and bait a shot, then super on reaction.

    Basically you charge up ASAP and turn the fireballing into a beatable skeleton strategy. Imagine the match changing once you get full from a fight with Ryu to a fight with Ken. Once you have meter, he hasn't got a prayer to trap you.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    is it best to use sagat's tiger uppercut with jab only or any punch button

    The fierce TU does the most damage.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    ^^^ When u face ppl that can play well n makes very few mistakes u most likely won't even get to use TU at all at that point jumpin RH takes the place since it's "safer".

    EDIT: It's MUCH harder to throw out continuous low tiger shots in AE compared to ST.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Why does O. Sagats fireball do so much damage?
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Becuase it is part of the Hammer Brothers Suit... :lol: -felinki

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  • zasszass Da 'Mizer Joined: Posts: 1,122
    I would not call Boxer a "weak" matchup for Sagat. Daigo is an amazing player but Sagat is one of Boxer's toughest matchups. Maybe it's 50-50, and that could be "weak" for Sagat, but the only character I would call weak for sagat is Dhalsim.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU or if they are far away throw out low shots to bait the jump n when they do throw a high shot to knock them down from the air...rinse n repeat! though against better players like afrolegends this is MUCH easier said then done.


    ST vega can be tough for sagat too cuz his speed+poking ability easily pressures sagat into the corner giving him very few options to do anything about it however don't be afraid to get aggressive and rush that shit down it catches many vegas offguard cuz they expect u to crouchblock in the corner so when u throw out jumping RH's they panic and start jumping which is when u should TU FTW so i would say this match is 50/50


    chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and if she gets u in the corner theres nothing u can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SBK or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SBK is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • wakeupsweepwakeupsweep Joined: Posts: 124
    chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and is she gets u in the corner theres nothing i can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SPB or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SPB is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.
    :rofl:
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU ...

    Actually what you should do is throw another fast tigershot. In this fight Sagat should be using fast tigershots 90% of the time. Throwing a slow one allow Balrog to avoid with his headrush and locks Sagat out of throwing another one because his first tigershot is still on screen. That allows Balrog to start applying his pressure.

    With using almost exclusively fast tigershots Sagat can rethrow one once Balrog lands from his headrush.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    ^^^uhh what game u talkin bout? in HF it don't work and for AE it's possible but i haven't played ST in a while so i dunno if thats what game u talkin bout.
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    ^^^uhh what game u talkin bout? in HF it don't work and for AE it's possible but i haven't played ST in a while so i dunno if thats what game u talkin bout.

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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    sim is sagats worst MU but boxer is #2 simply cuz he can go through ur tigershots to get close and when that happens ur only chance is to bait a turnppunch and counter with TU or if they are far away throw out low shots to bait the jump n when they do throw a high shot to knock them down from the air...rinse n repeat! though against better players like afrolegends this is MUCH easier said then done.


    ST vega can be tough for sagat too cuz his speed+poking ability easily pressures sagat into the corner giving him very few options to do anything about it however don't be afraid to get aggressive and rush that shit down it catches many vegas offguard cuz they expect u to crouchblock in the corner so when u throw out jumping RH's they panic and start jumping which is when u should TU FTW so i would say this match is 50/50


    chun can be a pain in the ass cuz her jumping ability and spinning bird kicks can throw ur TU timing off and if she gets u in the corner theres nothing u can do about her lightning kicks u just have to take the block damage and DON'T try jumping RH's cuz her jump kicks will ALWAYS beat yours out in fact they can beat out TU most of the time unless u do it very early just try to stay grounded and keep her far away and be ready to TU on reaction cuz misreading a jump for a SBK or the other way around can cost u the round but i dunno how i would rate her cuz after u learn to read when jumpin is coming and when a SBK is coming the MU gets alot easier so i would say this is 60/40 in chuns favor.

    i cant decipher what you're trying to say. please use periods next time.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    ^^never!
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option? Also I wonder, what moves can stuff the Uppercut, like t.Hawks jp.jab or chun's jp.short? I guess you gotta be satisfied if you get a trade in those situations, but is there a way to beat them clean?
    I'm a bit confused about the timing of the uppercut, very late Uppercuts work well sometimes. On the other hand, I often only get a trade from moves like ryu's jp.fierce or Guile's jp.forward :confused:
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option?

    If you're looking for the most damage, yes. I don't think there is a priority difference.
    Also I wonder, what moves can stuff the Uppercut, like t.Hawks jp.jab or chun's jp.short? I guess you gotta be satisfied if you get a trade in those situations, but is there a way to beat them clean?

    You can beat those clean but you need super timing to do it. A perfectly timed TU on a jump in will look like it's picking to opponent off of the ground to hit them. In those situations it won't trade. However when it does trade it will be in your favor so no worries.
    I'm a bit confused about the timing of the uppercut, very late Uppercuts work well sometimes. On the other hand, I often only get a trade from moves like ryu's jp.fierce or Guile's jp.forward :confused:

    What you need to do there is TU even later. And you must also TU from a crouch without having to stand. It's tough, but practice makes perfect.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Oh I see. Yeah that was also my feeling, doing it like the last possible moment. I guess when i have "too much time" Fierce, Strong and Roundhouse are also good antiair options, but of course I also want to perfect that TU :wgrin:
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Ok guys, this is a SUPER TURBO forum, not a broken ass AE-the-game-no-one-should-be-playing-now-that-CCC2-is-out forum

    N.Sagat

    O.Sagat

    only two chars that exist in this game. Thx.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    So, as antiair, fierce Tiger Uppercut is always the best option?
    Assuming we're talking about O. Sagat, yes. N. Sagat's fierce uppercut is crappy, use jab for him.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Assuming we're talking about O. Sagat, yes. N. Sagat's fierce uppercut is crappy, use jab for him.

    Does anybody actually use N Sagat?
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Not often, just wanted to make things clear for people who weren't as familiar with the game.
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  • Daidoji KageDaidoji Kage Unsafe on hit... Joined: Posts: 1,944
    Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

    Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

    Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Does anybody actually use N Sagat?

    Ya.. people do. Still not as good as O. Sagat. Here are a couple of things that ppl sometimes forget about N.Sagat....

    He's not all bad...

    His LOW Tiger Shots have to be blocked LOW just like O.Sagat.

    You can reduce the recovery of his RH Low Tiger shot by -4 frames if you kara cancel from a jab. It give his low RH tiger shot a 45 frame recovery compared to 49. This helps him a lot.

    O.sagats low tiger has a 37 frame recovery, Compared to the 45, it is still faster, but 45 is not that bad at all, considering you have to block it low.

    SO anyway, I jst post this b/c N.Sagat is not total crap. His low fire ball game is not bad. He is still not a beast like O.Sagat (high damage, fast recovery, big combos, BEEFY TU) but still very usable. :pleased:
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Yea, he's still a good character. And I shouldn't have said his fierce uppercut sucks, it doesn't, it's just that it's more situation specific and less universal than O Sagat's fierce uppercut.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    And I shouldn't have said his fierce uppercut sucks, it doesn't, it's just that it's more situation specific and less universal than O Sagat's fierce uppercut.

    Agreed.

    IIRC from YBH the damage % on the move is.

    12+8+3+3+3 = 29% life bar damage

    If you can get it deep of an AA you get 29% Damage, that is 1 point less than a Feirce SPD. Not bad...

    You can also combo it off of the Close St.strong (hit crouching characters) off of a jump in ( in in close) or a cross up.

    JUmp Round house (15 damage) + St. Strong (14 damage)+ Freice TU (29 damage)=58% damage..... ouch...

    FYI: (95% sure)

    The Jab is 21 damage.
    The Strong is 24 damage.

    If you don't want to risk them falling out of the Fierce TU.

    IM(humble)O: It is best to do the the Strong TU for an AA. If your timing is a little off, you still trade to a huge advantage compared to the Fierce.

    If you wawnt to get better positioning after the TU, then do the Jab version. You recover faster and have a faction of a second to move iinto a slightly better position on the board/screen if you want it.
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  • geadomgeadom Reversal Counter Hit Joined: Posts: 1,084
    Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

    Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

    Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?

    cr. short, st.short (GODLY poke), cr. mk, to low tiger shots is your best bet (all three of them). The pushback after low TS is REALLY far, and combined with st.short (a REALLY LONG, FAST, hard to punish and CANCELLABLE poke to TS), O.Sagat midrange, imo is GODLY.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Ok, so assuming there is a critical breakdown in o.Sagat's game plan and the opponent does manage to get in and start applying pressure, what are Sagat's options aside from TU?

    Right now, the one thing I have for certain is the sacrifice hp throw to the other side of the screen to reset the tiger shot games. That's just too poor of an option though as a wrong guess = dead...

    Which normals of his are best to use in this situation?

    Crouching strong isn't bad. Standing short is really good and crouching fierce is really fast.
    Ya.. people do. Still not as good as O. Sagat. Here are a couple of things that ppl sometimes forget about N.Sagat....

    He's not all bad...

    His LOW Tiger Shots have to be blocked LOW. O.Sagats firballs can be blocked high.

    O. Sagats low tiger shots must also be blocked low. That characteristic of Sagats low tiger shot was introduced in Super Street Fighter 2.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853

    O. Sagats low tiger shots must also be blocked low. That characteristic of Sagats low tiger shot was introduced in Super Street Fighter 2.

    Really? Maybe I am just confusing it with CE (been playing a lot of AE lately). I'll double check tonight, and edit where appropiate. Thanks! :tup:
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    OK. The score is: Shin akuma 2, fatboy 0. (shakes fist in air... I'll get you one day!)

    I don't know how I over looked that. You are correct (AGAIN :wink:) I swear I checked it, but, appraently not.

    In my quest to better understand the different versions of Sagat :karate: , I must have lost track of that.

    Thanks for correcting me. I don't want to spread bad info! :tup:
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  • ThisGuileKillYaThisGuileKillYa SSS++++ tier at exaggeration Joined: Posts: 2,627
    In my quest to better understand the different versions of Sagat, I must have lost track of that.

    Sorry if this was already stated in this thread.. I gave it a quick browse and didn't see it, but the main difference between O and N Sagat, aside single hit DP and faster FB, is that O's standing LK and standing MK can both be canceled off of either of their 2 hits. That makes standing short twice as godly :)
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Sorry if this was already stated in this thread.. I gave it a quick browse and didn't see it, but the main difference between O and N Sagat, aside single hit DP and faster FB, is that O's standing LK and standing MK can both be canceled off of either of their 2 hits. That makes standing short twice as godly :)

    I thought new Sagat could also cancel off of the second hit as well?

    Wow, that makes N Sagat extra sucky.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,633
    What's a better poke in general for o.sagat: s short or st forward? cuz both can cancel but short has shorter activation (not sure by how many frames) while forward does more damage.




    All i ever use o.sagats tigerknee for is:

    -getting in close/ for a crossup after a knockdown
    -far AA (chuns jump kicks beat it sometimes though that's prolly due to my own mistiming)
    -jumping over fireballs without risking being being AA'ed (strict timing)



    I don't see anything else i would use it for consistently.





    I noticed that while i have a solid turtle game i have a poor offensive game with sagat and against a good player i usually stay in the back/midrange and keep up the firetrap instead of moving in closer so can anyone tell me what are some good offensive tactics/pokes to pressure the opponent when u have them on the defensive/in the corner?
    P. gorath said: seriously though, it really crystalized how much better mvc3 is than that game. "Oh look, commando vs. 3 characters...this will be excitin--zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzz"
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    What's a better poke in general for o.sagat: s short or st forward? cuz both can cancel but short has shorter activation (not sure by how many frames) while forward does more damage.

    Standing short is Sagats best poke. Standing forward can be ducked by most characters.
    All i ever use o.sagats tigerknee for is:

    -getting in close/ for a crossup after a knockdown
    -far AA (chuns jump kicks beat it sometimes though that's prolly due to my own mistiming)
    -jumping over fireballs without risking being being AA'ed (strict timing)

    You can also use the tiger knee after your opponent blocks a meaty jumping roundhouse. Do a short tiger knee. It will put you right within throw range and then you can either:

    -Tiger uppercut
    -Throw

    For some reason in this scenario Sagat has an extremely high chance of connecting a throw. Use sparingly as a mix up because if your opponent reads it right, not reacts but reads, they will get a free throw.

    Many times if they just react they will eat a TU.

    You can also throw a low slow tigershot instead of a tiger knee after the meaty blocked jumping roundhouse for extra mixup.
    I don't see anything else i would use it for consistently.

    You can use it to chase a tech throw enemy. depending on wen they teched your throw you can tiger knee after them you get up close and apply the pressure.
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