Sagat thread

124

Comments

  • fivetenfiveten My rookie is better. Joined: Posts: 83
    Is it possible to reduce the delay on O. Sagat's Fierce/RH Tiger Shot, New Sagat's, or both?

    Can I input a short or jab and then input a Tiger Shot whenever I want? Or do I have to do a true kara cancel in 5 frames?
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    And to those who bitch about O.Sagat....then look at an expert ST dhalsim or boxer player,then you'll have something to bitch at haha.

    In so many words I agree. All three are pretty strong characters. However IMHO, the skill gap to use O.Sagat if definately smaller that the skill gap to use Sim and Boxer (w/ or w/o their throws).
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • MrArcadePerfectMrArcadePerfect Leo Player! Joined: Posts: 480
    The only time i've been able to Knee over shots with O.sagat,is if they throw a medium or fierce fireball.(mostly fierce,couldnt tell the speed difference..with the fierce/medium Tiger Knee that is)..could never do it with a light,nevertheless,its a nice tactic,since sagat is an excellent close-range character against shotos,just ignore that sweep.

    But honestly,to every Sagat player out there,if your picking N.Sagat,your pretty much handicapping yourself.It's like ST Cammy picking old Cammy...Old Sagat is the better character by far.

    And to those who bitch about O.Sagat....then look at an expert ST dhalsim or boxer player,then you'll have something to bitch at haha.

    i use N.sagat cause i like a challenge and i got some tricks with the super which i will not share with yall:lol: *TOP SECRET*
    but you are right using O.Sagat is much better
    i guess i just find N.Sagat more fun :cybot:
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  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    The only time i've been able to Knee over shots with O.sagat,is if they throw a medium or fierce fireball.(mostly fierce,couldnt tell the speed difference..with the fierce/medium Tiger Knee that is)..could never do it with a light,nevertheless,its a nice tactic,since sagat is an excellent close-range character against shotos,just ignore that sweep.

    But honestly,to every Sagat player out there,if your picking N.Sagat,your pretty much handicapping yourself.It's like ST Cammy picking old Cammy...Old Sagat is the better character by far.

    And to those who bitch about O.Sagat....then look at an expert ST dhalsim or boxer player,then you'll have something to bitch at haha.

    Hey, I like using O.Cammy from time to time.
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  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,807 mod
    i guess i just find N.Sagat more fun :cybot:

    Same here. N.Sagat is just more entertaining. Nothing scientific about the choice. He also has the cooler colored shorts.
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  • orochizoolanderorochizoolander 2LANDER! Joined: Posts: 15,636
    After playing with remixed sagat I can't go back to o.sagat tiger knee juggles and crossups are just too nice.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm playing New Sagat cause I feel like it and I feel that his Tiger Knee is harder to do all the time than DPs or SPDs IMO. Is the execution window for TK really smaller than most other moves or I just suck at TKing?

    I'm playing on arcade version (emulator) with Turbo 2 or 3 (my friend likes 3)
  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    I actually find it easier to perform than a dp. I just roll to uf in one swift motion. If you're messing it up, it's easy to diagnose: low tiger = not hitting the upper corner, j.K = not hitting the K right as you reach the corner.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I actually find it easier to perform than a dp. I just roll to uf in one swift motion. If you're messing it up, it's easy to diagnose: low tiger = not hitting the upper corner, j.K = not hitting the K right as you reach the corner.

    Thanks. That helped me find a way. I am now getting it all the time using a MvC2 trick to get it down. I'll share is so it may be useful to somebody else. Sagat's TK is pretty much a low to the ground AHVB with kick. Once I visualized it, I can do it pretty often now.
  • je110je110 Dantastic Joined: Posts: 385
    I've been playing N. Sagat recently to get a feel for him. Yeah yeah, I know O. Sagat is unilaterally better, but as others have said before, I'm having quite a bit of fun with N. and I'm sticking with it for now. So, my questions:

    -I know O. Sagat's Uppercut is best if timed as late as possible to catch them during the brief invulnerable startup. Does this also apply to N. Sagat's uppercut, and is the invulnerable window different among the different ranks of it? I tend to use strong uppercut rather than fierce for AA, so I guess my question specifically is regarding that uppercut.

    -So speaking of using Strong Uppercut as AA, if I'm timing it as late as possible, is it actually better to use Fierce uppercut? If all of the hits of Fierce connect, it should deal somewhat more damage, and if it's that deep, I'd assume it would connect in full. However, my line of thinking so far has been to stick with strong, since if it trades I still get the full damage. Assuming I am able to consistently land the uppercut very late (I'm not there yet), would it be better to use Fierce instead?

    -When I get a dizzy, my combo of choice has been standing fierce, fierce uppercut, unless in the corner, in which case I do standing fierce, strong uppercut. I was playing against CigarBob the other day, and I noticed he did standing forward, fierce uppercut in the corner. The fierce uppercut got one more hit in after the forward than it did after the fierce, but I'm fairly certain this still does slightly less damage than standing fierce, strong uppercut. I'm basically just wondering if there's anything I'm missing here.
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Where would you rate N Sagat at? Mid or so?
    Casually playing:
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  • _MJ_#R_MJ_#R gfbnews.blogspot.com Joined: Posts: 1,592
    Where would you rate N Sagat at? Mid or so?


    no point of using N, ever
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  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    no point of using N, ever
    disagrees.

    Yaya is a top N.Sagat that shows that winning with N.Sagat isn't exactly impossible. Also, O.Sagat is softbanned enough in Japan that almost no one ever plays as him. Yes if you have a choice between playing O.Sagat and N.Sagat then obviously if you have to win at any cost pick O.Sagat.

    But saying that there's no point is choosing N.Sagat is a bit extreme. O.Hawk is better than N.Hawk overall but there are a handful of players who have done quite well with N.Hawk in Japan.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • _MJ_#R_MJ_#R gfbnews.blogspot.com Joined: Posts: 1,592
    wow one guy uses him, so what.
    O.sag is used alot in japan. Not necessary softbanned like before.
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  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    Some people don't want to play like a bitch, dawg. N Sagat is tight. Don't use HP uppercut for anti-air.
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  • morres75morres75 2 SMOOV Joined: Posts: 74
    when should i throw a high or low tiger shot and at what speed
    mindgames for life
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Practice them both and all speeds and it will come to you on when to use them at what times. At the highest level it becomes more random and involves a lil more footsies and some 'psychic' thinkings.
    Casually playing:
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    SG: Valentine
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    streetfighterdojo.com: Super Turbo Sagat

    I finally got the ST Sagat section up at streetfighterdojo.com.

    Here is the link:
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/sagat/sagatmatches.html

    Match footage of top players + combos/tricks

    Enjoy!
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • TNBTNB Bye. Joined: Posts: 1,180
    never heard of street fighter ae.. unless u mean the anniversary collection.
    Skills and attitude prove worth as a player, not the internet.
  • Master BigodeMaster Bigode Touhoufag Joined: Posts: 879
    never heard of street fighter ae.. unless u mean the anniversary collection.

    Hyper Street Fighter II - The Anniversary Edition
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  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Bumping this old ass thread to increase tiger awareness.

    Best normals in the game, I don't care what anyone says.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    What can you comment on his normals? And match-ups? So far, there is little information for it (new, old).

    O.Sagat is really good, but he dies to the top 4. N.Sagat is cool, but he has trouble in many match-ups, and many of the things O.Sagat does safely, he does with a risk.

    I disagree with "best normals": Chun Li, Claw , Boxer and Dee Jay are ahead, but I would say he does have the best sweep. I rate it ahead of Gief's and Ryu's, due to its range (much better) and recovery (comparable to that of Gief's). I feel his aerial RH is good not really cos the move itself, but cos of how long it stays active and his jump arc.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    I don't think he flat out dies to the top 4. He is part of the top 4, unless you're talking about Chun... he doesn't lose to Chun.

    I'm not a Sagat expert... but here's my opinion on his matchups. I don't like matchup numbers that much, but it is the only way to quantify them. I would prefer to do some writeups on each matchup, since that says a lot more, but too lazy lol. Maybe I'll do em one day at a time. Nothing surprising here, maybe Fei?

    wtvtpv.png

    About his normals, it's a personal thing; I feel very comfortable with them, I feel like I can counter almost anything with them if used right. The hitboxes may not be the best but the range and positioning of his normals are incredible.

    EDIT: I may have done the math wrong on that chart. haha I rushed it and was too lazy to double check
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Yeah, I did not mean die in the sense of being free, but just having disadvantage. I certainly know even less about Sagat, but it looks OK.

    As for the normals, against my character, a few of them are enough to really piss me off: cr.RH, st.Short, st.Frc, st.RH, aerial RH. Some even work as option-selects if you avoid a meaty Tiger with a reversal, which is even more infuriating, lol.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Yeah I love the st.rh / rh tiger OS, it actually has some good uses. st.mp (incredibly useful vs sim, vital for that matchup) and cr.hp are good too. Actually, all of his normals are good. cr.lk ar cr.lp are good for baits, cr.mp is a good normal to cancel off of (st.lk does little hit/blockstun and st.lk xx tiger can be reversaled) or follow up with another normal into low tiger. his cr.mk is good to combo into tiger knee and again, it has the benefits of doing medium attack dizzy and hit stun, making an airtight blockstring into low tiger (not for n.sagat though). Even st.lp has its uses for feints or as a safer alternative to st.mp/hp against shotos (obviously doesn't have the same great range). st.mk is obviously excellent for combos with o.sagat, but the hitbox is decent as a quick aa and you can actually link into far st.mk from a cr.mk, which is good for n.sagat since his rh low tiger doesn't recover fast enough to keep him at neutral frame adv. when canceled off a cr.mk if it combos.

    When it comes to his jumping normals, his air punches are good against characters with a strong air game (j.lp against claw, j.mp/hp vs Dic), and n.sagat has j.mk crossup of course (hard to use), but both o.sagat and n.sagat can crossup with j.lk, but it's incredibly difficult to space.

    One thing I love about N.Sagat is his close st.hp, you can pull off some of the sexiest dizzy combos with it.

    YMMV
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    One of the guys who gives me really stressful and close battles on GGPO is Hydlide. As you guys know, dude's a beast. His O.Chun is really annoying.

    djf and papercut were talking about preparations OSs such as:


    I got interested. So I began thinking of ways I could apply OSs to Sagat's game. One of things that annoys me most when I play this guy's O.Chun is that whenever I have him knocked, all I can really do is throw a meaty low tiger because he does a reversal SBK anytime I try to get close and it's hard to really do anything.

    The great thing is that Sagat's cr.hp stuffs SBK. So what does that mean? It means I can do a safe jump on O.Chun with a preparation cr.hp if she reversals, and it'll stuff it! I tested it with djf and it works. Luckily these preparation OSs are really easy to perform, so it doesn't require any hardcore grinding or training. Anyways, I'm really happy that I know have a way to approach o.chun on knockdown. Now she'll be forced to block a safe jump, lose her charge, and will have to face the inability to throw soften (while I can) and my TU. Even though this thread is old and dead and no one seems to care, I thought I'd share this anyways.

    I'm not really sure who else I could apply this to though.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    The great thing is that Sagat's cr.hp stuffs SBK. So what does that mean? It means I can do a safe jump on O.Chun with a preparation cr.hp if she reversals, and it'll stuff it! I tested it with djf and it works. Luckily these preparation OSs are really easy to perform, so it doesn't require any hardcore grinding or training. Anyways, I'm really happy that I know have a way to approach o.chun on knockdown. Now she'll be forced to block a safe jump, lose her charge, and will have to face the inability to throw soften (while I can) and my TU. Even though this thread is old and dead and no one seems to care, I thought I'd share this anyways.

    I'm not really sure who else I could apply this to though.

    An example of the "Shiki Upper" as applied to Sagat. But, couldn't you also just do a built-in DP, or does that not work with Sagat?
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  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    No reason why he couldn't do a built in dp, or anyone else could, but SBK beats TU.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Sagat and Hawk's meaty uppercuts can also be thrown like the Shoryuken, if timed badly.


    sagatken.png


    hawkryu.png
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Good Sagat by Hammer: 1 (22:00), 2
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Is hammer UnderKingdom from ggpo? They play a lot a like. same color too.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • KoopKoop SRK - D.M.V. OG™ (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 5,487 mod
    Bump
    Respected... simple as that.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I have gathered N.Sagat's average damage and stun range data and added it to the Wiki this afternoon.

    N.Sagat (ST) - Shoryuken Wiki

    Here is the data in text format:
    close
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super
    
    11+11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    12/16 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    14/20 dmg, 10-16/1-7 sd, 80/70 st, 5 super
    
    far
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super
    
    -
    -
    -
    
    cr
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st, 5 super
    
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    17 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    22 dmg, 5-11 sd, 130 st, 5 super
    
    neutral
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    12 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    diagonal
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 5 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    14 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    21 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    
    High Tiger
    16 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    17 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    19 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    
    Low Tiger
    15 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    16 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    17 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    
    Tiger Uppercut
    30/27 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st
    33/30 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st
    16+11+4 dmg, 0-4 sd, 20 st
    
    Tiger Knee
    19+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
    21+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
    22+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
    
    throws
    32(34) dmg 7-13 sd, 100 st
    
    super
    14 dmg, 0-4 sd, 20 st
    
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    O.Sagat damage data:
    close
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st
     
    11+11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st
    11/16 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    14/20 dmg, 10-16/1-7 sd, 80/70 st
     
    far
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st
     
    -
    -
    -
     
    cr
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st
    24 dmg, 10-16 sd, 80 st
     
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st
    17 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st
    26 dmg, 5-11 sd, 130 st
     
    neutral
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st
    24 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st
     
    12 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st
    26 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st
     
    diagonal
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st
    24 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st
     
    14 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st
    26 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st
     
     
    High Tiger
    16 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    17 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    19 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
     
    Low Tiger
    15 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    16 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
    17 dmg, 9-15 sd, 100 st
     
    Tiger Uppercut
    29/28 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st
    33/29 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st
    36/33 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st
     
    Tiger Knee
    19+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
    21+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
    22+16 dmg, 2-8 sd, 90 st
     
    throws
    32(34) dmg 7-13 sd, 100 st
    
    Fierce and aerial Roundhouse do much more damage, Tigers and Knees do the same damage, TU does much more damage.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Weird, it always seems O.Gat's tigers do much more stun than N. Gats, especially when I watch the dizzy bar.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I will review that later, then, when I get home. But just the way higher rate O.Sagat throws projectiles already changes how much more stun he does.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Well, I didn't mean like that. It's just with O.Gat it appears there is a higher chance to stun off of two tigers compared to n. gat.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I know, man. Well, it can be checked from that formulas from Dammit's debug breakpoints that the stun formula is a base number and a random number that ranges from -3 to +3. This base number ranges from 1 (supers) to 14 (unnerfed heavy jumping attacks), if I am not mistaken. Also, IIRC, that random value does not change in the sense it is the same table and same offset. So, you mean there is a different base number, and you may be right. When I tested red and blue Hadous, I mistakenly stated the range was the same. It wasn't. But now I can just see the base number, so it is easier to check stun.

    BTW, IIRC, Dhalsim did look like he took more stun. Gotta test that again.

    Finally, where's the damn stun bar and timer for SSF2X??? :)

    *I am speaking in "for dummies" mode so everyone can understand, else I'd just send a PM.

    Edit: I am still impressed his damn Fierce TU does the same damage of a Jab SPD. BS.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Alright, I've just arrived at home and tested it right away. Both Sagat versions do the same stun damage with their Tigers.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Alright, I've just arrived at home and tested it right away. Both Sagat versions do the same stun damage with their Tigers.
    There's absolutely no way this can be true.

    Also N.Sagat's upper does more damage, I've taken out like 40% of someone's vitality with it before. Sometimes it just does MONSTER damage that I've never seen with O.gat.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
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