N Ken Thread

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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Multi hit Throw LIMIT

    I haven't found any data containing the precise number of Consecutive hits in a mult-hit throw for each character. Here's what I've done:
    N. Ken Knee Bash 12 hits avg. of 10 hits each time.
    Gief Stomach Crunch 9 hits; face crush 11 hits
    Blanka face bite 12 hits
    Boxer Headbutt 10 hits

    That's all I've tried and I'm wondering if a limit exists. This was tried on AE on dummy (opp. for each was Guile).

    The timing for the throws is the same for all characters. The most effective way is to focus on tapping back, foward as quickly as possible and focus on pressing short, foward, RH in that order as fast as possible. I found this technique works for me. I didn't find the answer to this question anywhere including the YBH (although I can't be 100% sure b/c I cannot read Japanese). I've even held the CPU in holds for up to 9-12 hits. It's easy once you get the timing down.

    I also understand that a Human Opp. will try and counter; it doesn't have much of an effect unless they also know the proper timing.

    If anyone knows the exact limits please post for each character.
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  • caliagent#3caliagent#3 Caliagent Bobblehead Joined: Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG

    I also understand that a Human Opp. will try and counter; it doesn't have much of an effect unless they also know the proper timing.

    If anyone knows the exact limits please post for each character.

    You mean counter mash the throw?? I just wiggle left to right and piano hk,hp,mp,lp,lk or hp,mp,lp depending on how my hand is positioned when i'm in a multi hit throw and i usually shake out in 2-3 hits.
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  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

    I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

    Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

    What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

    What else can you do with a jumping short?

    And finally, how easy is it to get out of kneebash ticks? Do you need to do reversal DP/counter throw or is it easier than that?

    Thanks in advance.
  • JoeMastersJoeMasters Awaken ! Joined: Posts: 452
    Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

    I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

    Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

    What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

    What else can you do with a jumping short?

    And finally, how easy is it to get out of kneebash ticks? Do you need to do reversal DP/counter throw or is it easier than that?

    Thanks in advance.

    For the super link question, are you whiffing jab?

    I never really use jumping short, I use jumping jab so you gotta ask others about that.

    I think it is all DP/CT but someone has to back me up on it. Im not a 100%
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  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    Reversal move / throw is the only way to get out of any good tick throw setup in ST period. That's why Knee Bash is so good, it's often quite possible to win the round after landing one knee bash if you can mix-up well enough after it.

    Although you could always counter the tick as opposed to the throw if you think it's coming.
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    How about N Ken's air hurricane kicks? There's one version of the air hurricane kick that has a really short arc and is great for getting next to your opponent in a hurry. Is there any trick to getting the short arc air hurricane kick out?
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    I believe that's called the juice kick and I'm not sure what the trick is.
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    How about N Ken's air hurricane kicks? There's one version of the air hurricane kick that has a really short arc and is great for getting next to your opponent in a hurry. Is there any trick to getting the short arc air hurricane kick out?

    Basically if you've ever played CvS2 then you should know what a short jump is. You can perform a tatsumaki kick while doing a short jump (there is no short jump in ST, however the timing is the same i.e. you can do a juice kick in CvS2), it's very fast and difficult to do at first. It's really easy once you get the motion down. All you need to remember is to never let your thumb (center of your thumb) leave neutral on the D-pad. As for using a J-stick it's much easier, you just need to get the motion down. Do NOT practice doing the 225 degree motion in reverse (example Fei Long's windmill kick or Sagat's Tiger Knee), it's faster to just tap up+towards and then QCB; this will also improve you're accuracy.
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  • JoeMastersJoeMasters Awaken ! Joined: Posts: 452
    I love that version of the AHK. I try to use his overhead for mix-ups after hisknee throw,j.jab ->AHK, or during a combo. I havent played much competitive ST yet. Is this an effective method, or is it easily countered?
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  • jchensorjchensor Salty Chen Joined: Posts: 1,934 admin
    Hey, I'm just getting into ST, playing N.Ken because Knee Bash is awesome.

    I'm having trouble doing his hit confirm (shortshortsuper) I know the command, there was even one day when I had it down, but now I can't do it..I dunno, I just do short short nothing. What's the timing for cancelling into the super?

    Make sure you time the button presses so they are always the same length apart. The space you put between the first Short and the second Short should be the same space you put in between the second Short and the Short + Punch you use to activate the Super. It's not a Buffer, so don't do it quickly like a Buffer.
    I love that version of the AHK. I try to use his overhead for mix-ups after hisknee throw,j.jab ->AHK, or during a combo. I havent played much competitive ST yet. Is this an effective method, or is it easily countered?

    The Overhead kicks are useful only in a Blue Moon. They work REALLY well on people who aren't used to them, but on most players, it doesn't do much for you, especially if you abuse it. So save it for those key moments, like finishing someone off or hitting them when you know they are one hit away from a dizzy. One good tactic is that you can hit Gief with it as a Meaty at a range you cannot be SPD'ed! If you learn that distance, you can usually get a dizzy off of Gief if you land Jump Fierce XX Air hurricane Kick into Crouch Roundhouse. One overhead there will cause Gief to fall Dizzy a lot, and if they try and SPD, you land the kick for sure.

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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    I saw a very interesting glitch for the first time. The CPU was Ken, I crossed him up with a Fierce Horizontal Rolling Ball, the CPU input the command for a RH tatsumaki at the same moment. I landed, and he hit me 1 time, bounced off me, and continued the same tatsumaki all the way to the other side of the screen (full screen)!
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  • NoAffinityNoAffinity Saikyooooooo!!!! Joined: Posts: 473 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Oh and about the Knee Bash..I was watching Mattsun, and after a knee bash, he seems to always do jumping short. I know that that's a good tick into knee bash, so my questions..

    What's a better tick, jumping short, walkup kneebash, or jumping short, crouching short, walkup kneebash?

    What else can you do with a jumping short?

    Best bet, like with any aspect of the game, is to mix it up. In the above scenario, you have a plethora of options:

    jump-in short->cr. short->knee bash

    jump-in short->knee bash

    jump-in jab->cr. short->knee bash

    jump-in jab->roundhouse AHK->walk-in knee bash

    jump-in jab->roundhouse AHK->cr. roundhouse (knock-down, sometime dizzy)

    jump-in fierce/roundhouse->fierce AHK->crouching roundhouse (knock-down, frequent dizzy, difficult to time following a knee bash->jump in...for me at least)

    jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->fireball (the fireball will not combo)

    jump-in jab->fierce AHK->cr. forward->crescent kick (crescent kick will not combo, and leaves you vulnerable to counter, but good for flash)

    ...and other, but you get the idea. For stricly finding additional usefullness for the jump-in short, a personall favorite is: jump-in short->cr. short->jab uppercut (3-hit, knock-down).

    The "short arc" AHK (aka juice kick) can be performed by executing it very early in a jump. It is easier to do if "video slow down" is being produced, such as when a fireball hits an opponent, or holding jump forward while in move animation (such as a whiffed uppercut) then executing AHK as soon as jump animation begins. Timing is quite tricky.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I really like Ken because of how different he plays in this game. He is a very fun and complex character, but man, that juice kick is hard to do on a pad! I haven't tried it using a stick yet.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i have a question about ken's crazy kicks

    how many kicks are there?
    how do i use them??

    cometimes they come out when i don't want it....how do i fix this problem??
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    He has 3 kicks:

    1. qcf + kick
    Used in combos or after a c.RH much like fireball. This is the most useful of the 3.

    2. toward to down + kick
    Not much use that I know of.

    3. hcf + kick
    This is like Ryu's s.RH, but it's faster and generally not as useful.

    If you hold the kick button after any of these attacks, it becomes an overhead, which can be useful sometimes.

    Using them by accident is a problem everyone has at first. You just need to focus more on doing the motions for the moves you want "cleanly" if that makes sense.
  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    Hey guys, just a question about KNEE BASH (still my reason for playing N Ken)

    So let's say I set up knee bash with a crouching LK tick. The opponent can get out with counter throw or reversal shoryu. What I'm wondering is, if I do crouching LK -> LP shoryu, will their shoryu get beaten out? If not, how can I beat their reversal shoryu attempt?

    I'm also not having nearly as much trouble doing juice kicks now, my advice for anyone trying it is just do Upforward -> Back as fast as possible. My big problem (the reason I can't really do it 100%) is because I often hit Up when I'm trying to hit Up-forward, and so I end up doing an "up" juice kick, which has a much narrower arc than the upforward one, and that screws me a lot. I love juice kicking over a fireball and knee bashing the fuck out of the guy who threw it. Yeah!
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    In the example you give, the opponent's Shoryu, if timed correctly, will beat yours. That's because they will recover slightly quicker than you. Your shoryu will beat their counter throw attempt, however.

    What you want to do is vary ticks. If you always do cr. lk tick, throw, then mix it up with cr lk X 2 , throw, or finish the entire block string, like cr lk X 3, cr mk X Hadoken, etc.

    One thing to also be aware of is that Ken's MP throw has more range. Sometimes you can do like cr lk x 2 and be out of knee bash range, but still in range for that throw.
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Hey guys, just a question about KNEE BASH (still my reason for playing N Ken)

    So let's say I set up knee bash with a crouching LK tick. The opponent can get out with counter throw or reversal shoryu. What I'm wondering is, if I do crouching LK -> LP shoryu, will their shoryu get beaten out? If not, how can I beat their reversal shoryu attempt?

    As GG already said if they time it right they can beat your DP. However you can delay in anticipation to beat or trade with their DP. That's a bit too much thinking though and if you want to hit with the DP there are other setups.

    Instead of a LK->knee bash you could do a couple of LK to put you slightly out of throw range. Now in order to throw you would need to walk forward just a bit. This is where the DP can play havoc with your opponent. Natural instinct for a player is to poke or counter throw when an opponent walks towards them. If you walk forward a bit->DP you will find it much like a psychic DP when you hit the counter.

    It's a decent option considering that if they do nothing and simply block Ken is fairly safe due to his fast DP recovery.

    Basically the order of actions would be 2/3 LK->Slight pause(anticipating a counter DP, though you could skip)->walk forward a step->DP/or walk forward a step knee bash
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  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

    Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?
    How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

    Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken.

    That is a good question. As far as I have seen nobody does it but i would assume he should have it. Perhaps it isn't as good as Ken's?
    What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?

    Quick dragon, easy to use cross up and longer range ground pokes.(standing Roundhouse)

    He may still have his superior jump fierce punch as well.
    How does Ken combo his hurricane kick out of air normals? Such as jumping jab -> hurricane kick. I can't do it! Is there any special timing to it?

    Just practice. I think the timing is odd.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853

    He may still have his superior jump fierce punch as well.

    This is correct! Confirmed by YBH hit box illustrations.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    This is correct! Confirmed by YBH hit box illustrations.

    Thanks.

    Apparently I got neg repped for answering Mariodood's questions????
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  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    Welcome to SRK. When the neg comes, the neg comes. Usually in shitstorm form. I just ignore it.
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  • Sanjuro_The_RoninSanjuro_The_Ronin ST 4 life yo! Joined: Posts: 572
    Ok, thanks guys, I'll remember that stuff. I got more questions.

    Can Ryu juice kick too? If so, that is lame. Seems like he really got the better end of the bargain in this game, he got forward+MP, forward+HP, Shinkuu Hadoken, and better fireballs then Ken. What does Ken have over Ryu besides KNEE BASH?

    Yes Ryu can juice kick kind of. I find it not nearly as useful as Ken's considering you can set up alot of different scenarios with Ken's while Ryu's just knocks them down. Ive done it randomly with both O.Ryu and N.Ryu.
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    The main thing Ken has over Ryu is relatively safe DPs. You can miss one at point blank and probably still be OK. That makes it a lot tougher for people like 'Sim to just stick out random normals.
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  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    I didn't know that, I thought they were the same.

    How safe are DPs on block? I know they're really safe, but can anyone punish them on block?

    Anywhere I can find frame data for ST?
  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    I don't believe anyone can punish Ken's jab DP on block. Stronger ones can definitely be punished.

    Yoga Book Hyper is the best source of ST frame data, though I believe there are sources around the Internet in various places.
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  • MariodoodMariodood You Cant Escape..O_o Joined: Posts: 1,458
    What about Ryu's dp?
  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Ken's DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.

    Ryu's can basically be punished easily if you expect it and can always be tripped.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    Ken's DP is hard to punish but can be punished still with a trip or a fast attack.

    FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance... Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.

    This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    FYI, at the right distanace the the Jab is un-punishable. It will leave ken with a +1 frame advanage. Even if it is a little off, there are no normal moves in the game that are are fast enough to punish the DP at this distance... Even Dhalsims ducking forwards with a 2 frame start up can punish it, b/c ken is pushed to far away.

    This is discussed/shown in the Yoga Book Hyper.

    I'm not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can't be punished.
    Who's cuisine reigns supreme?!

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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    I'm not positive but I think there may be a couple of setups so that it can't be punished.

    Yep.

    At the rigt distance his jab DP is 100% safe.

    Don't get me wrong, if he is in your face, you can punish him afterwards.

    But, if he is perfectly placed, you can't punish him.

    There are tons of videos showing ANTI-KEN , applying pressure this way.

    I will be more than happy to post them up for you. If you like. :tup:
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    I think you misunderstood what I said?

    And do you mean Aniken?
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  • KuprinKuprin MOOGLE RUSH!!! Joined: Posts: 322
    Yeah, I think he does mean Aniken...I've seen him do it, and it's pretty cool. So it's a spacing thing, got it. I'll have to watch for it more closely.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    I think you misunderstood what I said?

    And do you mean Aniken?
    Yep AniKen.. My bad. :wgrin:
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  • wakeupsweepwakeupsweep Joined: Posts: 124
    Does O. Ken's fierce dp hit on first frame too? Looks like it doesn't to me, but I could be way off.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Yes, it does hit on the first frame.
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  • wakeupsweepwakeupsweep Joined: Posts: 124
    Ok, thanks.
  • JoeMastersJoeMasters Awaken ! Joined: Posts: 452
    Thought I could get some facts on this..

    I havent had much comp in ST for awhile but ive been practicing with Ken's knee throw mix-ups/cross-ups/etc. If im crossing somebody up right after the knee throw and they input the DP command, will he turn around and DP or will he DP the opposite way. And of course, are cross-ups really safe? I havent seen any top players cross up after knee throw. All i see are tick throws really.
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will "automatically" switch directions and counter your crossup.

    Crossups are effective if you use them when you safe jump. For the most part IMO crossups with N.Ken should be used sparingly, if at all. Knee bash is mostly used with ticks or mix-ups.
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  • JoeMastersJoeMasters Awaken ! Joined: Posts: 452
    Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that ^_^

    Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?
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  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Ah ok. I forgot to specify somthing though, these arent jump cross-ups, these are knee throw-> walk on the other side cross-up. Would the DP switch sides automaticlly? Sorry for that ^_^

    Also in corners there are times when I jump in and appear on the other side off the player standing after the knee throw. Are those safe?

    Strategy for DP still holds even though you walk under (it's not easy or automatic, you have to time it as a reversal and input the reverse command).

    No, basically they are not safe: The reason that you appear on the other side of your opp. is because you "pass over him" (i.e. you jump in after your first neutral frame with j.Short) while he's in recovery frames he physically doesn't move as far as you do when you jump (in pixels). Whether or not it's safe depends on the character and skill of your opp. Bottom line is it's not safe because the opp. will always land b/f you do (so even if you tried to make a safe jump you couldn't), they'll punish you accordingly if you try.
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  • eruditemodeeruditemode Joined: Posts: 67
    hello all,

    just returned from Mikado where I got served by a purple ken, who I later found out was Matsun. I haven't played against aniken so I can't speak on that subject of who's better, but I can attest to Matsun having the prettiest ken I've ever seen. Its almost scary on what he can do with him. Several game notes:

    1) funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I'd love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the "wtf" face. I should have asked him how to do it, but he doesn't look like the social type.

    2) juice kick combo. Even though he didn't land it on me, apparently if you have amazingly fast fingers you can combo a juice kick off the ground by doing jump jab (instant) into juice kick. All three kicks of the juice air hurricane should land, with the jump jab, so 4 total hits. I saw it once in a combo video off sagat, but that was done using an emulator, and this is to be done with human hands. Its difficult enough to do a juice kick, but to add the jump jab in is near impossible. Try it yourself, half the time you can get the combo to work, but the arc of the ensuing Hurricane kick will not be in the juice kick arc.

    3) if you want to play n.ken competitively, master the juice kick. He cannot hold up his own without it in my opinion. ken is also master of the footsies game and is played extremely effectively by freezing opponents with fear of dragon punch. this will allow you to get your knee bash in.

    anyways that's it for now. Just want to say that while he's not the best in the game, n. ken is definitely a really fun character to play with, and there is always something you could be practicing with him (st. fierce to super, juice kick etc).

    also have a question.

    To answer your first question if the opp. inputs the command f, d, d/away the opp. will "automatically" switch directions and counter your crossup.

    I've always wondered about this while playing ken. It seems like sometimes I will do a normal f, d, df +p and ken/ryu will automatically change directions for the dp. But if I read the above statement correctly, it says that you must change the last input to down-back. Can I get a confirmation on this? The reason why I ask is because I've never seen that notation before (and thus I've never attempted it) and yet on some occasions 50% I can get the anti cross up dp to come out just using regular dp notation.

    to clear it up, if I am on 1p side, and I am getting crossed up by 2p jumping over me to the left. I have three choices

    (all notation given as 1p side facing right)
    1) f, d, df
    2) f, d, db
    3) b, d, db (as if it were a 2p dp notation).

    which is the correct notation to get a anti cross up dp (where ken turns and now does a 2p side dp on reverse)
    If anyone could clear this up for me that would be great.

    thanks
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    If you perform the regular dp motion any time b/f the opp. reaches zero barrier then you won't change directions b/c you've input the command and the game engine is no longer focusing on where the opp. is. The game just executes the move and pays attention to the hit boxes. If you execute it after it breaks zero barrier like a reversal (i.e. as soon as opp. breaks zero barrier execute d/f+P) it will switch sides for you. Any input after time for reversal requires you to hit d/a+P; when you hit down it creates a neutral state for your character [i.e. no matter which side you face you still hold just 1 down] this neutrality creates the opportunity for you to change directions on the DP because the game engine is not focusing on which direction your facing; the game sees you as neutral this gives you more time to execute the DP. I hope this helps.
    1) funk kick glitch. match was O. ryu vs ken, vega stage. Ken wins round by doing cr. strong into funky kick. ryu is killed by the 2nd hit of funky kick. usually the match ends here. BUT NO! ken does another full funky kick (half circle one I believe) and the button is held so that he does the axe finish. If anyone knows how to do this, how this is impossible, and if other characters can do it, I'd love to know. Again, a full funky kick was done AFTER the match was over, ryu completely laying in the waste pile, dead. I am positive that it happened and the player who was victimized also looked up and gave me the "wtf" face.

    For the hcf+k (Roundhouse) coming out after the round here's a possible explanation (it applies to your last question as well):
    1st Conjecture: In order for any move to come out after the match was decided (vitatlity of 1 opp. reaches zero) that must mean there is some time left for input after the opp. dies (if what you say actually happened and wasn't a game engine "brain fart").
    2nd Conjecture: I have no idea what special was used to kill opp. (I assume it was the inside crescent kick qcf+K, canceled into Ax kick/overhead)
    3rd Conjecture/fact: Once you defeat your opp. the game engine ignores the side/direction your opp. is facing. [ex. You're dic and you defeat opp. with H.S. dic will face the same direction (victory stance) no matter which side you decide to land on]
    4th Conjecture: The inside crescent and Rounhouse funky kicks will cross up the opp. if you perform the Ax kick (hold K or tap K again while the special is in motion).

    Very confusing b/c question said Ryu was laying completely on ground (how there could be this many additional input frames/time baffles me).

    Yes the combo you mentioned in #2 is possible w/o emulator, but only works on Sagat, Gief, Hawk b/c they have large hit boxes. Definately master the juice kick; it's Extremely useful. Check my other posts in this thread for more info on Juice Kick.

    to be continued/edited...
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
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  • Homer PimpsonHomer Pimpson Questionable Joined: Posts: 1,179
    Thanks to all the people who have contributed to this thread. Lots of solid goodness in here. N-Ken for the win.
    GGPO: MrSimpson
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ShinVega wrote:
    If he input the command f,d/f+Strong,d+K (if he's right beside the opp.) and continues the motion to d/a, a+K the Roundhouse (actual name of kick) will come out. The reason for this is when Ken is right beside an opp. and the opp. crouches the funky kick will cross-up the opp. (goes completely on the other side of the opp.), since Matsun continued the motion to a half circle motion, the second Ken cross-up the opp. (and won the match) the Roundhouse would still come out.
    This is wrong for a variety of reasons. Well, three reasons at least. No, wait, four. Hold it hold it five. Six. Final answer. Six. Possibly seven. I'm going to go with seven.
    1) too far away for funky kick to cross up after crouching strong
    2) wrong funky kick for combos
    3) wrong funky kick for crossing up
    4) forward doesn't count as away. ("right" can sometimes count as both forward and away but not if you aren't holding the joystick there.)
    5) command buffer will have expired way before you get to the second kick button
    6) no funky kick 2 hit combo on ryu if he's crouching
    7) if funky kick crosses up it won't hit (twice) and vice versa

    ShinVega, dude, when you're posting conjecture please identify it as such. You kinda did at the bottom there -- "this will require some testing" -- just move that type of qualifier to the top the paragraph next time ok? You've been posting a lot of great stuff in this subforum but you gotta indicate when you're speculating and when you're writing from experience.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    ShinVega, dude, when you're posting conjecture please identify it as such. You kinda did at the bottom there -- "this will require some testing" -- just move that type of qualifier to the top the paragraph next time ok? You've been posting a lot of great stuff in this subforum but you gotta indicate when you're speculating and when you're writing from experience.

    Point Taken, and will be corrected (edited to the best of my abilities/studies).

    The entire second paragraph was from experience, and (mostly) "educated" conjecture.

    --Note: don't try to prove hypothesis on no sleep for 38 hours
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UiorkJr6Zgw

    Video of Ken's ground cross-up. It looks like it only works on P1 side.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Ken's Inside Crescent (qcf+K) and Roundhouse funky kicks (hcf+K) both have the ability to cross up crouching opp. under certain circumstances when standing right beside them, it works on both sides (with or without ax kick). The reason it crosses up is due to the hit boxes on both specials. The hit box completely hits the opp. on the other side of them causing you to cross up. I'd post the hit box diagram but that would be copy right infringement (it's on pg 15, and 16 of the YBH). The f, df, d+K won't cross up for the same reason.
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
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  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    It actually depends what character you're fighting. It works every time on shotos from the left, but never on the right. I couldn't get it to work on Chun' at all.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
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