N Ken Thread

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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    ryu/ken hurricane goes over sonic boom, yoga fire and low tiger shots only.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Ryu can Tatsu through Fierce and Strong Max Outs, too, and escape all others if they are meaty enough. Ken's will get hit on the ground and leave him vulnerable to combos. Ken could at least avoid low meaties and get airborne before, so that is an important vulnerability. But Ken could never go through projectiles other than the ones moocus have mentioned.
  • VCFan1001VCFan1001 Joined: Posts: 285
    23008247.png

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  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    lol

    now i'm using a new combo: c.short, c.forward :qcf::k:, use it on corners for best results.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    i was actually wondering about the crazy kicks and if anyone uses all three versions in combos, or for other reasons.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    The Jab Shoryuken does very high damage and knocks down, so it is usually the best option. The only one that does more damage (1 point only, tough) and works in combos is the Inside Crescent, if both hits connect. It also adds very high stun, and a 4-hit combo with it will either dizzy or leave the enemy about to get dizzied, and with a high timer on it (check the Wiki). In addition to it, it has more range, but the enemy gotta be standing for it to connect.

    Any combo into the backward roundhouse kick is useless (less damage, likely to whiff), and the other kick does not combo.
  • PunchingpowaPunchingpowa Joined: Posts: 68
    Anyone able to pull off the kara cancel option select in the corner? it seems that once you master that, n.ken becomes un beatable once he takes you down.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i was actually wondering about the crazy kicks and if anyone uses all three versions in combos, or for other reasons.
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    try this:

    crossup :mk:, :d::mk:, :qcf::mk:,:d::hk:, just don't use it all the time, otherwise you're pattern will be your weak point. This one is uselful too: :d::mp::qcf::mk:, most of the time they think you will fireball they don't expect a crazy kick on his/her head.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Anyone able to pull off the kara cancel option select in the corner? it seems that once you master that, n.ken becomes un beatable once he takes you down.
    What option select can N.Ken use, but the ankward meaty kick into Jab SRK? As far as I know, the proper shoto option-selects that involve kara-canceling do not work for N.Ken.
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    try this:

    crossup :mk:, :d::mk:, :qcf::mk:,:d::hk:, just don't use it all the time, otherwise you're pattern will be your weak point. This one is uselful too: :d::mp::qcf::mk:, most of the time they think you will fireball they don't expect a crazy kick on his/her head.
    That's HDR, man. It is the motion that changes the kick in ST!
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    The Jab Shoryuken does very high damage and knocks down, so it is usually the best option. The only one that does more damage (1 point only, tough) and works in combos is the Inside Crescent, if both hits connect. It also adds very high stun, and a 4-hit combo with it will either dizzy or leave the enemy about to get dizzied, and with a high timer on it (check the Wiki). In addition to it, it has more range, but the enemy gotta be standing for it to connect.

    Any combo into the backward roundhouse kick is useless (less damage, likely to whiff), and the other kick does not combo.

    i had to go into training mode to see what you were talking about. inside crescent (fireball motion with kick) is the only one useful. the one that looks like a back spin hook kick (half-circle forward with kick) might combo but less likely for less damage. the outer crescent kick (zangief's banishing hand motion) doesn't combo at all.

    one thing that i did notice though is that each whiff brings you closer to your opponent at different ranges. so in theory, this could really screw with a blocking opponent. you have the three different ranges ending in an overhead, giving you three different ways to bait and retaliate if your overhead doesn't connect. i'm going to try this out eventually...
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    What option select can N.Ken use, but the ankward meaty kick into Jab SRK? As far as I know, the proper shoto option-selects that involve kara-canceling do not work for N.Ken.
    That's HDR, man. It is the motion that changes the kick in ST!

    No my friend, with due respect, that combo with that motion is ST, now i use these exact combos as part of my arsenal and it's 100% ST C.strong c.circle forward kick.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    he was correcting this part
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    the motion dictates funky kick; it doesn't matter what strength kick you use.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Inside Crescent Qcf.png + any :k:
    Outside Crescent Fdfd.PNG + any :k:
    Roundhouse Hcf.png + any :k: (I'm pretty sure you can end this Crazy Kick at :df:, but HCF will also work)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I haven't seen any posts regarding this, but here's positive proof that Ken's reversal Tatsu can escape tick throws, same as Ryu:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j--YOrmQcUQ&#t=4m46s

    I had not tried it myself cuz I wasn't sure it would work, until I watched that vid. Unlike Ryu who has invincibility, Ken's reversal Tatsu can escape tick SPDs due to being airborne right from the 1st frame:

    kentatsu1stf.png
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Born2SPD told me that when he captured the hitboxes. I believe I have fixed the wiki as I had written in some places that Ken needed a SRK, and that he was at risk of eating cross-up combos with tatsus, which is not true.

    Youtube's crap frame rate screws the "proof": we can not tell for sure if the SPD was timed perfectly. First frame aside, it is not certain whether there will be more throw attempts, as they are only triggered on button presses and releases, which the player may decide not to do. The only move that has constant grab boxes is RBG, when it goes active.

    BTW, I guess one can notice it is dangerous to use this move against Gief: If he punishes it with a lariat or hand, you have to deal with his fearful cross-up. I wonder why he used a tatsu there. Perhaps, it is easy to use it after a SRK that does not work due to another tick. Any ideas?

    Edit: there are still things to fix. The tatsu section itself is not accurate.
    Edit2: I fixed what I have seen. The Hadou text was also weird, I tried to improve it somehow.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I wouldn't say it's definitive proof, but if somebody captured a frame-by-frame tick SPD vs Ken's reversal Tatsu, I would bet good money that Ken wouldn't be thrown.

    Multiple throw frames (like RGB) don't have anything to do with anything as Ken is airborne for the whole duration of the Tatsu, so not even a perfectly timed tick RGB could throw a reversal Tatsu. But I would definitely like to see a frame-perfect capture of this.

    Not saying it's as useful as Ryu's reversal Tatsu, but it can help in certain situations, as a defensive mixup, esp if you can get the Short Tatsu reversal everytime as it's the hardest to punish.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    There's no reason to bet, man, it is guaranteed that he can not be thrown from the ground. What I meant was Gief's SPD is not a move that has constant grab frames, which is contrary to popular belief, that's all. If the Gief player mistimed his SPD and held the button, Ken could have simply jumped out.

    I think it can work better than Ryu's tatsu against normal throws, as it hits on the second frame, while Ryu's only really evades dictator's normals that happen due to failed throw attempts, I believe.
  • KoopKoop SRK - D.M.V. OG™ (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 5,487 mod
    bump
    Respected... simple as that.
  • dsinniedsinnie Joined: Posts: 4,132
    why?
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    To get all the character threads back up to the top so people will start talking about strats and match ups again.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Ken's strategy against most the cast seems to be on the offense and sort of random. Besides Honda, who should he not rush down? Well, as much as he can, I mean: some characters like Fei are able to get their stuff going, but still I see top Ken players walking forward.

    Edit: I've realized there was no data at all for the super, in the Wiki, for Born2SPD's pics. Some data was missing for the hold version of the crazy kicks, too. I've added this stuff, so it is complete, now.
  • fleven21010fleven21010 Joined: Posts: 12
    why?

    In essence to minimize the amount of drama and random crap that goes on in this section. A bit of a desperate ploy in my opinion. Because this place was a joke to begin with and the only reason more people came here to participate in it was because of that drama. When they (mods and SRS BSNS ST players) try and force people to take it seriously, people get bored and lose interest very quickly. So at the end of the day, you'll pretty much have the same 5 - 10 people talking about the same nonsense over and over and over again. Yeah, boring isn't it?
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    So you don't want people to discuss strategy and ST? That's pretty counterproductive towards the scene.
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    What? I don't quite get what you mean moocus
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    I still don't get you, I'm pretty sure I didn't put words in your mouth only asked simple questions and made a statement.
    If I was putting words in your mouth it would go like this, Moocus said this and that and this and that.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    OG posters all know, but still it does not hurt to recall these epic matches: Daigo vs Aniken!




    There are more: just doing a "Daigo vs Aniken" search should return them.
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    All I had to see was Aniken to know.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Aniken vs Daigo is a classic!
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i recently discovered this vide on youtube:
    Buhilaro(aniken) vs that honda player HDR mode


    You can see aniken doing the safe jump forward m.k into jab dp, if honda blocks, honda will recieve the chip damage from the dp and ken will be safe for any attack(even stored ochio of course), and ken can go and attack again with a fireball, another dp or even a tatsu cross up.

    Aniken landed the dp the 3 times he attempted the move in: 0:13, 1:17, 1:34, my question is, can be this considered an Option Select?, damn if that is considered an O.S, damn it's good.

    this applies to ST of course.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,710
    i recently discovered this vide on youtube:
    Buhilaro(aniken) vs that honda player HDR mode

    You can see aniken doing the safe jump forward m.k into jab dp, if honda blocks, honda will recieve the chip damage from the dp and ken will be safe for any attack(even stored ochio of course), and ken can go and attack again with a fireball, another dp or even a tatsu cross up.

    Aniken landed the dp the 3 times he attempted the move in: 0:13, 1:17, 1:34, my question is, can be this considered an Option Select?, damn if that is considered an O.S, damn it's good.

    this applies to ST of course.

    It's an option-select. They're also called 'installs' in the SF2 world.

    If Honda blocks the j.mk, nothing will come out, and Ken can continue to do a blockstring or a mix-up. If Honda does ANY kind of reversal, the DP will come out, which beats all of Honda's options.

    He's basically inputting a DP immediately after a well-timed safe-jump attack. Due to freeze-stun, the game will eat the inputs for the DP if he blocks, but it will come out if a reversal comes out, since there is no freeze-stun.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    That's called a DP install on the jump in.

    Yes, that would be considered a OS. DJFrijoles did a pretty complete video of other installs with other characters as well. This trick really helps you level up your game. Everyone should watch that video.

    Here Phil. study this video. This is the next level. To be a top player, you need to know all this.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Yeah papercut, nice vid!, damn i miss djfrijoles :( dude i hope to see you again soon.
    Well i tried the dp O.S last night vs honda and it works 100%, also works vs deejay, and it works 100% too, that option select is very good and safe if blocked giving to ken enough space to zone your opponent or even risk and go for a jumping punch into tatsu then kneebash and repeat the loop.

    I was like "hmmm nice" they just ate the dp doesn't matter if they reversed my safe jump m.kick, even if they blocked it i was able to throw fireballs, knock down and repeat, nice, this is new in my arsenal.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    Here on this vid

    My question is
    -Do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31 vs super @ 0:47 vs proyectile
    also
    -Look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05
    and
    -Dat ryu xup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    My question is
    -do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31
    also
    -look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05

    lol purple ken = mattsun i thought of course he can reversal. but he's not mattsun.
    however playing offline is a bit easier to get reversal out (no lag / dropped input / speed issues)
    these guys are all good man. you just have to double tap jab.
    -dat ryu sup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super

    OK so this is a variation of the mysterious player combo. ( mysterious uses MP instead of MK)
    according to stevetren, the cross up version is easier

    the really tough one is straight up dash punch (2hit), move a pixel forward, crouching MP/MK xx dp
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • SteveTrenSteveTren RYU Ph.D Joined: Posts: 999
    OK so this is a variation of the mysterious player combo. ( mysterious uses MP instead of MK)
    according to stevetren, the cross up version is easier

    the really tough one is straight up dash punch (2hit), move a pixel forward, crouching MP/MK xx dp

    Yes the crossup version on a crouching opponent is easy and I can do it nearly 100% due to the crouching hit box..
    The Straight up dash on a standing opponent combo is insanely difficult and I can imagine it takes years to master, as I can do it very inconstantly.
    GGPO: stevetren
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,710
    Here on this vid

    My question is
    -do any one know the proper technique to avoid ryu super on wake up??? i tried negative edge, piano, double tap with very low success, i think is more like a timing thing, i have seen for this type of reversal looks like u get the dp one step ahead that your actual position (not sure looks like), same goes with sagat
    anyway example @ 0:31
    also
    -look how consistant ken avoid low proyectiles
    @ 6:05
    and
    -dat ryu sup combo oO
    @10:28

    *my question is just for wake up reversal dp vs super

    It's pretty difficult to do, but I just double-tap the jab. It's something I have to practice pretty consistently to get the proper motion. Ideally you want to be able to put the jab for the special 3 frames in a row as tight as you can. frame 1 press jab, frame 2 release the jab, frame 3 press the jab again. In theory that's the best way to perform it reliably, in practice it's pretty damn difficult. I have noticed that the timing feels a lot easier offline than online. I can hardly get any reversal playing online.

    Not sure what you're looking at 6:05. I just see him do a standard jab uppercut through a fireball.

    10:28 Goddamn that combo hurts. I'm able to do the standard version that ends in a fireball, and I haven't had much luck landing an uppercut at the end. I find that the best way to consistently land the link after the dash punch is to piano either a) all 3 cr.punches in rapid succession, that way you're sure to get at least ONE of the punches to land, and b) double-tap the cr.fwd, or c) combine that cr.fwd by pianoing it with the cr.rh for a simple combo, or cr.short x uppercut.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Something weird happened not long ago. I was playing a mirror match vs a friend of mine, suddenly, i was on the corner and my friend comboed me with a st. fierce into fierce dp with four hits(big damage of course ala HDR Ken)!, you can't do that to Ken, Ryu, Chun-Li and Claw, how was that possible?, meaty st.fierce?(wait that's impossible).

    No i wasn't drunk or high or whatever.

    I asked to my friend and he said that he had no idea. i went to training mode, i revived the scenario and that shit is imppossible! DA FUC!?
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Something weird happened not long ago. I was playing a mirror match vs a friend of mine, suddenly, i was on the corner and my friend comboed me with a st. fierce into fierce dp with four hits(big damage of course ala HDR Ken)!, you can't do that to Ken, Ryu, Chun-Li and Claw, how was that possible?, meaty st.fierce?(wait that's impossible).

    No i wasn't drunk or high or whatever.

    I asked to my friend and he said that he had no idea. i went to training mode, i revived the scenario and that shit is imppossible! DA FUC!?
    I am pretty sure it is possible. It is just rare.

    BTW: YuuVega (N.Dictator) vs Mattsun (N.Ken)

    There are a few interesting things there:
    • backwards reversal Jab SRK [←(↙)↓↘+Jab, most likely] counter against Fierce Psycho Crusher (the very first time YuuVega used it, IIRC);
    • "Hadouy crazy kick" (Inside Crescent) anti-air;
    • several types of mix-ups into throw (whiff st.Jab, jumping Jab, jumping Jab xx Tatsumaki, cross-up Fwd cr.short, etc);
    plus Mattsun's usual solid play.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    No, you got me wrong, Oldschool, because IT'S TOTTALY POSSIBLE to punish dictactor with standing fierce + 3 hits of the fierce dp, mattsun knows that, and that's why he punishes dictactor with that combo.

    Check this list
    1. Ryu*
    2. Ken*
    3. Guile
    4. Chun*
    5. Blanka
    6. Honda
    7. Sim
    8. Gief
    9. Hawk
    10. Deejay
    11. Cammy
    12. Fei
    13. Sagat
    14. Boxer
    15. Claw*
    16. Dictator
    17. Akuma*
    Ryu, Ken, Chun, Claw, Akuma can't take the full standing fierce + 3 hits of the fierce dp.
    So i repeat again, how was that possible? ken vs ken no way!
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    You must have been ducking. You're bigger when you duck. no homo.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    OMG, Phil! The part after "BTW" is just cos this is the N.Ken thread. That has nothing to do with your question.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    lol
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    This is the time-stamp of the SRK counter in the video.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

    man, all those walk up throws...
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    This Ken player is pretty sick. He makes Pony look like a newb here.

    In case anyone who doesn't read the description
    Pony ( ST Hawk ) & Chourou ( ST Zangief ) vs. Kameraya ( ST Ken )

    Who on earth is Kameraya ?

    Daigo said,"His foot sweep is just like the SLOW Running Grand Straight."
    Aniken said,"I want to aquire his foot sweep skill."

    Kameraya is an old school style player. Nowaday,fireball can be used as poke in the short range.However, He hardly ever shoots fireball in the short range.He uses foot sweep for main poke. The more he pokes his opponent with foot sweep,the more he can make his opponent aware of need for block.When his opponent is on guard against foot sweep,he will be easy to throw.

    カメラ屋さん
    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus_chap5.shtml ( entirely in japanese )

    Man these footsies are so pure and intense/fast paced. I mean he never even jumps in and there are 2-3 dragon punches in the whole video?

    I remembered watching 25th SF4 qual grand final snakeeyez gief vs (justin rufus?) and the stream monsters kept saying omgzfomg intense footsies11111! but in fact it was sooooooo freaking boring. Lots of walk back and forth feigning and no action. 15% life lead and then back off to your corners for 10 seconds.

    TBF some of the ST honda MUs and claw MUs are like that too.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    I looked through the STR results section and there's only one showing for Kamerya and that was an old Master Secret Cup tournament from the early 2000s. I remember that he entered X-MANIA earlier this year so it's nice to see him still competiting.

    Anyone know what event this video is from?
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Dude, this guy is really fucking fun to watch. If any of you have tried playing N Ken seriously, you will appreciate this guys execution. Something as simple as walking forward and going into cr hk is really fucking hard to do consistently due to the crazy kick motion. He looks like an old school player, his style reminds me of champion edition.

    Here he is giving Mattsun a run for his money.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    That's some hot shit!
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    What made it really entertaining was that Mattsun even took on an old school style of play for that set as well with jab feints and close short pressure... in addition to typical crazy Mattsun shit.
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
    "Everyone has a plan until they get magnetized." -SpiderDan
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