N Ken Thread

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  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i think is a matter of speed, HDR and Classic mode are a little slower compared to ST on FBA, in that case you have more time to execute dps and reversals.

    call me ignorant cause i'm not 100% about this, but everytime i switch to HDR or Classic mode, everything looks so slower thus everything is a little easier to execute.

    blitz... do you have an official source about HDR and ST windows inputs?, cause i guess and i saw on sirlin's blog that window inputs for some characters are bigger than it was before on ST.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Thanks Ill try this on ggpofba. Also how are you supposed to do cr.mp/cr.hp into super I can do it with kicks but when I try to do a crouching punch into super the punch wont come out it just does the super

    You might be kara cancelling the punch before its hitting frames are active. Try slowing down your button input or try pianoing 2 punches, that always works for me.
    blitz... do you have an official source about HDR and ST windows inputs?, cause i guess and i saw on sirlin's blog that window inputs for some characters are bigger than it was before on ST.

    The input windows were changed only for Remix mode. In Classic mode nothing is different except for the backgrounds and O.character selection.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    So it puzzles me that aniken loves to do early lk safe jump.

    I thought it would always be better to do your jumping attack late (when opponent is knock down) so they only have little time to react, plus you can vary your jumping attack with light/medium/heavy for different block stun to confuse opponent's reversal throw attempts.

    Now I think I know why. I just beat fei's reversal twice with safe jump lk + dp install. It's so much easier to do dp install with early jumping lk smilex.gif


    [Edit: WTF! 10 pages, hundreds of people and nobody gives n ken thread a 5 star rating?
    let me fix that]
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Damage and stun data for N.Ken, World version

    First punches, then kicks, lighter versions first. It is based on observation and I have not repeated the experiments exhaustively, so do not take these as perfect. I sucks to account for variable damage, but as it does not vary that much, I took note of the most common values. Slashes refer to moves with multiple active parts. "Stupid kicks" are QCF, then QCD, then HCF.
    • dmg = damage
    • sd = stun damage
    • st = stun timer
    • super = super meter gain
    close
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    22 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 3-9/10-15 sd, 40/80 st, 5 super
    
    11 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    22 dmg, 11-16 sd, 80 st, 5/5 super
    
    far
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 10-15 sd, 80 st, 5 super
    
    12 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    
    cr
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    24/19 dmg, 3-9/10-15 sd, 40/80 st, 5 super
    
    4 dmg, 0-5 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 60 st, 4 super
    22 dmg, 6-10 sd, 130 st, 5 super
    
    neutral
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 6-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    22 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    12 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 6-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 11-17 sd, 60 st, 5 super
    
    diagonal
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-11 sd, 50 st, 4 super
    22 dmg, 3-9 sd, 40 st, 5 super
    
    11 dmg, 1-7 sd, 40 st, 2 super
    22/19 dmg, 3-9/3-9 sd, 40 st, 4 super
    24 dmg, 4-9 sd, 40 st, 5 super
    
    HDK
    14 dmg, 5-13 sd, 110 st, 2 super
    15 dmg, 5-13 sd, 110 st, 2 super
    19 dmg, 5-13 sd, 110 st, 2 super
    
    Stupid kicks
    4/26 dmg, 0-5/5-13 sd, 20/90 st, 6 super
    6/24 dmg, 0-4/5-13 sd, 90/90 st, 6 super
    28 dmg, 0-5 sd, 20 st, 6 super
    
    SRK
    33/22 dmg, 10-15/2-7 sd, 100/90 st, 8 super
    29/12 dmg, 10-15/2-7 sd, 100/90 st, 8 super
    4/27/11 dmg, 0-5/10-15/0-5 sd, 30/100/30 st, 8 super
    
    T
    11 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    11 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    11 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    
    Air T
    16 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    17 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    19 dmg, 3-8 sd, 90 st, 6 super
    
    super 
    16 dmg, 1-4 sd, 20 st, -48 super
    
    throw
    32-34(behind) dmg 5-11 sd, 100 st, 0 super
    
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    I was able to pull off an 8 hits renda cancel with ken 2 days ago on ggpo like this: crossup forward kick, short, short, super... 8 hits renda cancel!, first time ever that i'm able to link a renda cancel with a previous crossup forward kick.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • VCFan1001VCFan1001 Joined: Posts: 285
    Can someone please explain how to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPubo8iQwU&feature=channel_page
    Juice kick into super. When I try this I can't get the super to come out as soon as I land from the juice kick
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Can someone please explain how to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTPubo8iQwU&feature=channel_page
    Juice kick into super. When I try this I can't get the super to come out as soon as I land from the juice kick
    The command is really
    :uf::qcb: + :hk:, :qcf::d::df:+:p:
    The trouble comes from inputting the super fast enough. It is not often a good idea, landing and confirming out of repeated crouching Shorts would be the way to go. The advantage is that you will be able to confirm the super. If you are sure you can hit, then just use a single Short and renda cancel into the super. It is handy to learn how to renda cancel out of a single short so you can extend the enemy's vulnerability period and have more time to input the super command.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    gotta politely disagree with that. i find it very useful to go straight into super after juice. the execution is straight forward, it's just hard to develop the coordination since you initially rotate one way for the juice then immediately the other way for the super. practice, you'll get it. it's pretty risky to do it on characters other than ryu and ken though.

    super hits on the first frame, and renda cancelling a single short is pretty tough. also, you're giving them extra time to recover during the few frames it takes for the short to become active. why add that extra level of difficulty? you're risking fucking up the execution for a very minimal damage gain the one short would give. the only time i renda off one short is to confirm a jump-in against thin characters like claw or cammy. jump short -- crouch short -- super on hit.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Well, if that the case, I would agree. I thought Ken's super had like two or three frames of start-up, counting before and after flash, which is just about the same start-up of the cr.Short. I find it easier to cancel out of a single Short (without confirming), but maybe that's jut me. Feels similar to Alpha*. The idea is not the damage gain, in fact, but just extending the enemy's vulnerability to complete the motion (also similar to the Alpha series shit).

    *POS series...
  • T.testT.test Joined: Posts: 4
    Something that bothers me about N.Ken (or at least HSF2's ST Ken) is that his tatsu doesn't go through projectiles like ryu's. I sometimes see a projectile flying towards me and tatsu instead of srk and get hit.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    ryu/ken hurricane goes over sonic boom, yoga fire and low tiger shots only.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Ryu can Tatsu through Fierce and Strong Max Outs, too, and escape all others if they are meaty enough. Ken's will get hit on the ground and leave him vulnerable to combos. Ken could at least avoid low meaties and get airborne before, so that is an important vulnerability. But Ken could never go through projectiles other than the ones moocus have mentioned.
  • VCFan1001VCFan1001 Joined: Posts: 285
    23008247.png

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  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    lol

    now i'm using a new combo: c.short, c.forward :qcf::k:, use it on corners for best results.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    i was actually wondering about the crazy kicks and if anyone uses all three versions in combos, or for other reasons.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    The Jab Shoryuken does very high damage and knocks down, so it is usually the best option. The only one that does more damage (1 point only, tough) and works in combos is the Inside Crescent, if both hits connect. It also adds very high stun, and a 4-hit combo with it will either dizzy or leave the enemy about to get dizzied, and with a high timer on it (check the Wiki). In addition to it, it has more range, but the enemy gotta be standing for it to connect.

    Any combo into the backward roundhouse kick is useless (less damage, likely to whiff), and the other kick does not combo.
  • PunchingpowaPunchingpowa Joined: Posts: 68
    Anyone able to pull off the kara cancel option select in the corner? it seems that once you master that, n.ken becomes un beatable once he takes you down.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i was actually wondering about the crazy kicks and if anyone uses all three versions in combos, or for other reasons.
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    try this:

    crossup :mk:, :d::mk:, :qcf::mk:,:d::hk:, just don't use it all the time, otherwise you're pattern will be your weak point. This one is uselful too: :d::mp::qcf::mk:, most of the time they think you will fireball they don't expect a crazy kick on his/her head.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Anyone able to pull off the kara cancel option select in the corner? it seems that once you master that, n.ken becomes un beatable once he takes you down.
    What option select can N.Ken use, but the ankward meaty kick into Jab SRK? As far as I know, the proper shoto option-selects that involve kara-canceling do not work for N.Ken.
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    try this:

    crossup :mk:, :d::mk:, :qcf::mk:,:d::hk:, just don't use it all the time, otherwise you're pattern will be your weak point. This one is uselful too: :d::mp::qcf::mk:, most of the time they think you will fireball they don't expect a crazy kick on his/her head.
    That's HDR, man. It is the motion that changes the kick in ST!
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    The Jab Shoryuken does very high damage and knocks down, so it is usually the best option. The only one that does more damage (1 point only, tough) and works in combos is the Inside Crescent, if both hits connect. It also adds very high stun, and a 4-hit combo with it will either dizzy or leave the enemy about to get dizzied, and with a high timer on it (check the Wiki). In addition to it, it has more range, but the enemy gotta be standing for it to connect.

    Any combo into the backward roundhouse kick is useless (less damage, likely to whiff), and the other kick does not combo.

    i had to go into training mode to see what you were talking about. inside crescent (fireball motion with kick) is the only one useful. the one that looks like a back spin hook kick (half-circle forward with kick) might combo but less likely for less damage. the outer crescent kick (zangief's banishing hand motion) doesn't combo at all.

    one thing that i did notice though is that each whiff brings you closer to your opponent at different ranges. so in theory, this could really screw with a blocking opponent. you have the three different ranges ending in an overhead, giving you three different ways to bait and retaliate if your overhead doesn't connect. i'm going to try this out eventually...
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    What option select can N.Ken use, but the ankward meaty kick into Jab SRK? As far as I know, the proper shoto option-selects that involve kara-canceling do not work for N.Ken.
    That's HDR, man. It is the motion that changes the kick in ST!

    No my friend, with due respect, that combo with that motion is ST, now i use these exact combos as part of my arsenal and it's 100% ST C.strong c.circle forward kick.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    he was correcting this part
    I only use the forward kick version, short version and roundhouse version are not that useful.

    the motion dictates funky kick; it doesn't matter what strength kick you use.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Inside Crescent Qcf.png + any :k:
    Outside Crescent Fdfd.PNG + any :k:
    Roundhouse Hcf.png + any :k: (I'm pretty sure you can end this Crazy Kick at :df:, but HCF will also work)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I haven't seen any posts regarding this, but here's positive proof that Ken's reversal Tatsu can escape tick throws, same as Ryu:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j--YOrmQcUQ&#t=4m46s

    I had not tried it myself cuz I wasn't sure it would work, until I watched that vid. Unlike Ryu who has invincibility, Ken's reversal Tatsu can escape tick SPDs due to being airborne right from the 1st frame:

    kentatsu1stf.png
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Born2SPD told me that when he captured the hitboxes. I believe I have fixed the wiki as I had written in some places that Ken needed a SRK, and that he was at risk of eating cross-up combos with tatsus, which is not true.

    Youtube's crap frame rate screws the "proof": we can not tell for sure if the SPD was timed perfectly. First frame aside, it is not certain whether there will be more throw attempts, as they are only triggered on button presses and releases, which the player may decide not to do. The only move that has constant grab boxes is RBG, when it goes active.

    BTW, I guess one can notice it is dangerous to use this move against Gief: If he punishes it with a lariat or hand, you have to deal with his fearful cross-up. I wonder why he used a tatsu there. Perhaps, it is easy to use it after a SRK that does not work due to another tick. Any ideas?

    Edit: there are still things to fix. The tatsu section itself is not accurate.
    Edit2: I fixed what I have seen. The Hadou text was also weird, I tried to improve it somehow.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    I wouldn't say it's definitive proof, but if somebody captured a frame-by-frame tick SPD vs Ken's reversal Tatsu, I would bet good money that Ken wouldn't be thrown.

    Multiple throw frames (like RGB) don't have anything to do with anything as Ken is airborne for the whole duration of the Tatsu, so not even a perfectly timed tick RGB could throw a reversal Tatsu. But I would definitely like to see a frame-perfect capture of this.

    Not saying it's as useful as Ryu's reversal Tatsu, but it can help in certain situations, as a defensive mixup, esp if you can get the Short Tatsu reversal everytime as it's the hardest to punish.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    There's no reason to bet, man, it is guaranteed that he can not be thrown from the ground. What I meant was Gief's SPD is not a move that has constant grab frames, which is contrary to popular belief, that's all. If the Gief player mistimed his SPD and held the button, Ken could have simply jumped out.

    I think it can work better than Ryu's tatsu against normal throws, as it hits on the second frame, while Ryu's only really evades dictator's normals that happen due to failed throw attempts, I believe.
  • KoopKoop SRK - D.M.V. OG™ (⌐■_■) Joined: Posts: 5,487 mod
    bump
    Respected... simple as that.
  • dsinniedsinnie Joined: Posts: 4,132
    why?
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    To get all the character threads back up to the top so people will start talking about strats and match ups again.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Ken's strategy against most the cast seems to be on the offense and sort of random. Besides Honda, who should he not rush down? Well, as much as he can, I mean: some characters like Fei are able to get their stuff going, but still I see top Ken players walking forward.

    Edit: I've realized there was no data at all for the super, in the Wiki, for Born2SPD's pics. Some data was missing for the hold version of the crazy kicks, too. I've added this stuff, so it is complete, now.
  • fleven21010fleven21010 Joined: Posts: 12
    why?

    In essence to minimize the amount of drama and random crap that goes on in this section. A bit of a desperate ploy in my opinion. Because this place was a joke to begin with and the only reason more people came here to participate in it was because of that drama. When they (mods and SRS BSNS ST players) try and force people to take it seriously, people get bored and lose interest very quickly. So at the end of the day, you'll pretty much have the same 5 - 10 people talking about the same nonsense over and over and over again. Yeah, boring isn't it?
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    So you don't want people to discuss strategy and ST? That's pretty counterproductive towards the scene.
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    What? I don't quite get what you mean moocus
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    I still don't get you, I'm pretty sure I didn't put words in your mouth only asked simple questions and made a statement.
    If I was putting words in your mouth it would go like this, Moocus said this and that and this and that.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    OG posters all know, but still it does not hurt to recall these epic matches: Daigo vs Aniken!




    There are more: just doing a "Daigo vs Aniken" search should return them.
  • cammy-whitecammy-white Joined: Posts: 748
    All I had to see was Aniken to know.
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    Aniken vs Daigo is a classic!
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i recently discovered this vide on youtube:
    Buhilaro(aniken) vs that honda player HDR mode


    You can see aniken doing the safe jump forward m.k into jab dp, if honda blocks, honda will recieve the chip damage from the dp and ken will be safe for any attack(even stored ochio of course), and ken can go and attack again with a fireball, another dp or even a tatsu cross up.

    Aniken landed the dp the 3 times he attempted the move in: 0:13, 1:17, 1:34, my question is, can be this considered an Option Select?, damn if that is considered an O.S, damn it's good.

    this applies to ST of course.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    i recently discovered this vide on youtube:
    Buhilaro(aniken) vs that honda player HDR mode

    You can see aniken doing the safe jump forward m.k into jab dp, if honda blocks, honda will recieve the chip damage from the dp and ken will be safe for any attack(even stored ochio of course), and ken can go and attack again with a fireball, another dp or even a tatsu cross up.

    Aniken landed the dp the 3 times he attempted the move in: 0:13, 1:17, 1:34, my question is, can be this considered an Option Select?, damn if that is considered an O.S, damn it's good.

    this applies to ST of course.

    It's an option-select. They're also called 'installs' in the SF2 world.

    If Honda blocks the j.mk, nothing will come out, and Ken can continue to do a blockstring or a mix-up. If Honda does ANY kind of reversal, the DP will come out, which beats all of Honda's options.

    He's basically inputting a DP immediately after a well-timed safe-jump attack. Due to freeze-stun, the game will eat the inputs for the DP if he blocks, but it will come out if a reversal comes out, since there is no freeze-stun.
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