Honda thread

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  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    actually in the DJ scenario i would allow the Jump RH to hit me then just when he think ill do it again block the Maxout then hit him when he lands with F HButt or block then jab headbutt into a med splash. No Legit Honda player is going to be doing RH smashes from from more than mid screen anyways so that is pointless to even mention. This is all up close and personal RH smahses. The timing of the RH smash means EVERYTHING. I do agree med is 100x better than RH, RH smash has its purpose though.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Deejay can throw a Max Out then see what your going to do and counter if needed, no legit Deejay is going to throw a projectile in a bad position then blindly j. RH in vain hope your trying to get over it with a Splash.

    As for the "No Legit Honda player is going to be doing RH smashes from more than mid screen anyways" statement - I 100% agree, but it's shocking the amount of Honda players who do it out of pure desperation. I'm trying to help put learning Honda's on the right path but making it clear RH Splash is an awful anti-projectile strategy at high levels and is only good for some crossover trickery and a couple of mid-screen strats.
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    DJ cannot counter if Honda anticipates the max out. if its done on reaction then yes DJ can counter. Almost Everything becomes guess when you are playing top tier players.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Honda vs Claw

    This match up i give a slight 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 advantage to Honda. The main problems Honda has vs Claw are Claws jumping speed and is mid screen cross up game. First thing to know when fighting claw....Get in the corner as fast as you can. If you get caught in the middle of the screen, you more than likely will take chip damage from the crossup walldives, enough to put Claw on the run and you want to have a lead vs claw not be chasing him all over the board. you must make Claw come to you. (If he gets the lead it will be extremely difficult to get it back.) Sit in that corner and splash or headbutt every jump in he attempts. another trick is to block then ochio the jumpin. you may notice that you cannot headbutt claws jumps most of the time. This is due to the speed of his jumps.
    The Air game:. Honda actually fairs quite well in this. Jump back jab stops just about all of the wall dives. Anything off of the wall jumpback jab. if he goes off of his wall sit and head butt it. If he tries to go off of your wall you must use jump back jab to prevent Claw from going of off your wall and causing you to lose your charge. if you are caught not charging or with cement feet use standing fierce.
    The ground game: Honda does well but beware of the rolls, sometimes they can hit all of Hondas ground moves. Hands is a nice way to get him out of his ground game. Another danger is the full screen headbutt. Most expert Claw players invite you to do full screen HB then they can do a single back flip then throw you then RUN! Scrolling the screen also meses up Claw so doing repeated Hands (even if they miss) can screw his wall game up.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Honda Vs Thawk

    This is one of Hondas best matchups. The air game should not come into play at all in this matchup b/c Honda does not need to Jump or be in the air at all. Honda must beware of a few things against Hawk. The first being his short dive into DP. nice trick easily stopped by either Hbutt after the Dp or hands. Hbutt the dive itself(if in range). if not in range. use hands or safe low jab. Hawk is unable to use Far dives that will hit deep or high. Headbutt stops this. Headbutt stops just about everything that Hawk has to offer. WARNING DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN! Get to the air if Hawk is able to get in after he knocks you down. Jumping back with out hitting any buttons is preferred it tightens your hitboxes and you become tougher to hit. if not Hit fierce or RH very Early. Get in the corner and sit there, headbutt every jumpin and hands often to build meter. If things get up-close and personal Ochio. I cannot emphasize this more 1. DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN!
    2. Head butt ALL jump ins.
    3 Do Hands often to keep him out of typhoon range.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    OK enough with the easy straight forward matches, LOL. I want to hear some other Honda players opinions on the DJ and Chun match-ups. Those are the ones I find the most challenging.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    The reasoning behind posting the winnable matches for Honda first is b/c if you cant win those matches then there is no point in trying to win at the difficult ones. I will be posting chun and/or DJ within the next two weeks.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hello - I'm new to SRK, but not to SFII. Thing is, I'm used to HF from the arcade and super from the snes. I finally decided to move to super turbo via AE due to the release of HD. (lotta acronyms huh?) I of course noticed right away that the normal moves have some differences. (as I did "back in the day" but I seldom played ST back then so it didn't matter in those days).

    First the crouching fierce. I noticed that it's a double palm most of the time now. Seems to lose range and gain a second hit. Also noticed that "classic" cr. HP sometimes comes out. Question: what governs when the "old" move comes out? Also is the new move an improvement or a nerf? (so far I don't like it)

    Also noticed that his standing roundhouse kicks up more often now, I think it did that when close in turbo and super, but it seems you need to be alot farther away to make the sweep come out now, is this correct or am I wrong on this one? Again, if changed is it good or bad?

    Other major one is that his splash needs a down command to come out whereas m kick would always come out as a splash as long as you werent jumping straight up. this change is clearly good as it gives more options - nothing is taken away.

    Finally the cr. med and short kicks have a completely different move - he doesn't crouch low and sideways and flip his foot out sideways like he used to. Is the old move gone? And lastly, is this once again a positive change or a negative?

    Any help getting me adjusted is appreciated - I know he has a command throw now and am working on incorperating it also - hopefully I can offer up some decent competition before too long...
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Yes i was a little disappointed with the changes to Honda's regular moves. The old Cr fierce now has to be done while standing. If its done the other way you get the double pump.
    Another significant change was his standing fierce which now has random outcomes. Your opponent must be close for this to come out. otherwise its just a straight jab.
    his old cr forward and short must be done while standing now basically the switched the standing with cr moves. It gives him more options and a better ground game. His RH hasn't really changed that much you generally either hold forward or back to get the standing sweep.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Cr. Fierce is the (mostly useless) double hit punch. Standing fierce gives you the move that LOOKS like the cr.Fierce from HF but it DOESN'T KNOCK DOWN. It is a definite change for the worse. You only get his Fierce chop move when the opponent is close (less reliable to use as anti-air now because sometimes you get the old cr.punch instead of the chop).


    Stading Fierce gives you the upward kick, if you want the sweep you need to push towards or back + Roundhouse. He also doesn't have his Short and Forward knockdown sweeps from Super and HF. His close short move can be cancelled into the fierce headbutt to give Honda a real non-chain combo finally. His close Short also makes a nice tick into the Ochio throw (cr.Jab is better but Short is nice to mix it up every now and then).


    Learn to use the Ochio! It is his best upgrade in ST.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Also i too missed his old cr fierce that knocked down it was one of the features that i disliked. He needed his chop as well, which they made random.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    N Honda and O Honda both have advantages in terms of their normals.

    O Honda's crouching fierce is really good because it's his quickest sweep and his standing fierce chop is really good as an antiair and to counterpoke some normals. His crouching short and forward have awesome hitboxes and can totally stuff things like headbutt and Blanka ball. His standing jab also has one of the best hitboxes in the game because almost his whole hand can't be attacked even though it hits the opponent, so you can play great up-close games on opponents' wakeups; you can stand at max range and do standing jab as Ryu wakes up, and if he blocks, you get a tick, and if he does dp, it goes right through your hand and you can do free damage. Also, his far standing kicks all sweep and have different speeds and ranges, making for some nice mixups and whiffs-into-walkups.

    N Honda's crossup game is way better, since his crossup roundhouse is one of the best in the game. I also feel like his jumping non-splash forward is a little beefier. His standing and crouching kicks are more intuitively arranged, which is nice, and the hitboxes are pretty much the same where he shares animations with O Honda. His far standing jab is pretty similar to O Honda's, but it's not quite as safe. His normals are also more cancelable and combo-friendly. And actually for some reason I'm blanking on this, but one of them has a better jumping short hitbox; one doesn't hit on the front of Honda's attack, only on the bottom, but right now I can't recall which. Heh, that's annoying.

    The main reason people generally agree that N Honda is better than O Honda is that it's a lot easier for N Honda to get in. He has controllable neutral jumping fierce, a beefier hitbox on his buttslam, and rush slaps, which makes getting in way less of a chore. N Honda also has the command grab, which is obviously a plus. But even without the command grab, O Honda is still a beast once he gets in; his standing sweeps, crouching fierce, crouching short and forward, safe standing jab, walking slaps, and fierce grab/standing fierce option select are really beastly against some characters. They're both good characters. I usually go with N Honda, especially against characters I need to get in on, but in certain matchups, like against Blanka, O Honda is definitely my sumo of choice.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853

    Snip.....

    Not to mention, O.honda's St. Jab > fwd.Jab HHS, is a quick two hit combo for 27% damage (12+15) with great priortiy.

    It is like a walking priority box, if you get hit with the st.jab, {BAM} you get hit with a HHS.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Yeah, you can basically walk forward randomly slapping on the jab button and mixing it up with the occasional standing fierce/fierce throw option select against some characters. Oh yeah, standing jab to standing fierce is vicious against some characters. Like, against DeeJay, O Honda's standing fierce actually beats DeeJay's upkicks at the right range, which also happens to be still within O Honda's fierce throw range, so needless to say if you get a standing jab on DeeJay, you can go for some really serious standing fierce/fierce throw option select, more jabs, slaps, etc mixup games. Except, try getting in against DeeJay with O Honda, not the easiest thing!
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Wow! Thanks, that was sooo useful. I suspected that O cr. fierce was better, but didn't know that jump roundhouse had more crossup mojo since it looks the same. Also didn't know that I can zone old jab to be safe vs. dp! I knew it was pretty safe, but not THAT good! I also noticed that old cr fierce animation does come out, but only on a standing fierce at medium range. Old st fierce comes out at close range, but loses some distance due to what was originally the crouch move coming out when farther out.

    I totally welcome the rush slaps - being able to keep a charge while advancing is no small thing.

    It will be interesting to see what aspects of each make it into HD remix

    Thanks you once again for the O Honda vs. N Honda perspective - it helped alot. Now off to practice!
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Honda vs Sagat

    This match is one of the more difficult ones for Honda to Handle. The speed of Sagats Tigers are formidable. Also Sagats jumping RH is difficult to get around. Your reactions must be at their best. The air Game: Honda Jumping towards Fierce works well as well as his early jumping jab. Sagats jumping RH can keep you at bay through out the match. Timing a headbutt after the RH retracts till when they hit the ground is not recommended.
    Ground game: You MUST keep constant pressure on Sagat so he cannot set up his tigers. His Tigers in reality are not that difficult to get around. Jumping over the slow high ones or crouching under the fast high ones make them worthless against Honda. The ones you have to worry about are the low ones. Believe it or not the slow low Tigers are Jail Bait. If go over these from full screen you will be DPed and if you go over the fast ones you need to almost guess at what is being throw unless you are full screen and the slow tigers may trade anyways b/c Honda can land on the slow low tigers after Honda Hits Sagat. Reacting and guessing correctly is key. So i do not recommend going over low tigers to much, unless they are just throwing constant low tigers then keep them honest.. So how do you keep on the pressure? Constant Hands as well as St. RH. if you can link these together you can keep a constant barrage of hits going ( not a combo). E.g. hands - Rh -hands -Rh repeat. Hondas Butt smash has very little use unless you have him trapped. If you do do it you must execute it early so that J.RH does not snuff it out.
    Throws: Normal throws work great vs OG sagat but if you face off against new sagat use the oichio when in close as much as possible.
    Starting off the match many Sagat players will start with a J.RH. or a Tiger or a tiger knee into DP. If they do the latter then punish them as the DP is landing. if the J.RH do a standing Rh to trip them. if they catch on to this, pause just a second and make them guess at what is coming. As for how you can start... Hands, St.RH, Block, Cr. Jab. or if you can guess a tiger then use Frw Buttsmash.
    Another trick is to do Short butt smashes over the low tigers as well as his short squat jump over them.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    I have a dumb question about the Ochio throw. When I tick into Ochio (usually off a cr.jab or jump in splash) I usually use negative edge and release all three punch buttons one after the other. Does this make the tick "safe" against reversals like it does when T.Hawk neg. egdes the Stormhammer after a tick? Or am I just better off just piano-ing the buttons to make sure I get the Ochio off?
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Yep, negative edging makes it safe because there's no whiff animation. If the opponent does a reversal attack, you'll block, and if they don't, you'll throw them. The only thing that can beat it is a reversal throw, but that's only really an issue against Gief, Hawk, and another Honda. When I go for crouching jab into ochio as my opponent is waking up, I make sure I'm out of my opponent's reversal normal throw range and then roll from toward to down, press jab then strong-fierce (for a crouching jab with strong/fierce buffered in), continue rolling to down and down-back, and then let go of the buttons going fierce then strong then jab. I do fierce first because fierce ochio does huge stun, enough so that two ochios in a row will probably stun your opponent, so it's best to give it preference.
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  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    I know Fierce Ochio does more stun but do any of them have different ranges? I know ST 'Gief players claim the different SPD's have different ranges, not just different damages. I've never heard of either one being confirmed (i need to get a copy of the Yoga Hyper book, LOL).
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Nah, all the ochios have the same range, although the fierce one does more damage as well as stun. The different strengths of spd do have different ranges, though, and you can test that for yourself pretty easily in training mode.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    . The different strengths of spd do have different ranges, though, and you can test that for yourself pretty easily in training mode.

    I do not believe this is true. :shake: I have not experienced this in ST. I feel that all the SPD have the same range. I could be wrong, I am no expert, human, and make mistakes. I have tested this in training mode, used it in game play, and not found any correlation in button strength to grabbing distance in ST for the 360+ P.

    There easily could have been a set up I missed, or something I over looked that could have better shown the differences in range. Like I said I am no expert. :clown:

    However, my statement is also supported through NKI's ST page. The throw data for "Zangief's SPD," does not change with the button used. It illustrates the difference in range with the Kick 360s and button strength, but shows there are none with 360 + Punch.

    Check it out for yourself! :tup: http://nki.combovideos.com/

    The button strength does however, change the amount of damage done by the 360+p and the amount of recovery on a whiff. There are marginal differences in recovery for the damage gained.

    Respectively:
    • Jab = 25% Damage/ 21 Frames Recovery
    • Strong = 28% Damage/ 23 Frames Recovery
    • Fierce = 30% Damage/ 25 Frames Recovery:

    This is verified in YBH. I believe these damage % are based on normal characters (I.e. Ryu), and does not apply to Rasin's throw damage character rules. (See "ST in the house" thread.)

    IMHO, for what it is worth, if there is no differnce in range, go for the fierce SPD every thime.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Well I almost always drum strong-fierce when I do spd and I think most people do that, so it's not really a big deal. But I remember wondering about this a couple years ago and going into training mode to test it by pushing my opponent into the corner and then by using the space between Gief's feet and the opposing character's feet and by looking at the background, trying out the ranges of the move move by jumping neutrally up, doing the motion in the air, and releasing punch just as I hit the ground to make I'm not accidentally walking forward. And I'm pretty sure I found jab to have a slightly better range. Heh as long as I've been playing Gief, I've heard people on SRK and in real life argue about whether the different spd strengths have different ranges.

    I've also looked at NKI's translation of that data and been confused by the listing of all the spds as having the same range, especially, as you point out, considering that the different ranges of the atomic suplexes are listed. But all of Gief's normal throws are lumped into one category as well despite the fact that some have noticeably different ranges (particularly roundhouse grab), so I don't think the fact that spd only has one range listing is conclusive.
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  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    But all of Gief's normal throws are lumped into one category as well despite the fact that some have noticeably different ranges (particularly roundhouse grab), so I don't think the fact that spd only has one range listing is conclusive.

    Many good points. As I said, I am not a authority. I was honestly bringing it for more a piont of discussion. It doesn't matter much either way honestly. :looney:

    All that really matters to me is if I want to have your character "Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground!" That your character does get "Spun uncontrollably skyward... Driven brutally into the ground!"

    If that makes sense.... :wtf:
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  • COUMCOUM COUM Joined: Posts: 442
    The different strength SPDs definitely have different ranges. Even the difference between Jab and Fierce SPD is very slight (about one cr.Jab's pushback at most), but it is there.
  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    Here is a bit of info that might be surprising to some. I have only seen this one time and one time EVER!!!! I had a stored ochio... the opponent came up and tried a strong throw with Honda, i some how( while in the throw animation where Honda is grabbing you across the chest the put you to the ground (this is a regular grab not the oichio). ) must have reversal oichoed the grab after the animation for the grab had already started and even while i was in the throw animation itself so this was either a glitch or if timed correctly you can Never be thrown while stored. I would love to duplicate this again.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • Don CalzoneDon Calzone Joined: Posts: 291
    Which characters do Honda crossup when doing the ochio on them when they are in the corner?
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What is the counter move to beat deejay meaty combo from behind ?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Which characters do Honda crossup when doing the ochio on them when they are in the corner?
    My initial reaction was "nobody," and after testing it again really fast, I'm unable to replicate an oicho where the opponent starts in the corner and Honda ends up on the opposite side.

    Maybe(?) you got confused by the situations when the opponent appears to be in the corner but is actually a half-step away from it. It's possible to do it then and end up on the opposite side, because there's some space between their body and the corner. I know sometimes I've done an oicho in such situations and have not been sure which side I'm going to end up on because I wasn't sure if they were cornered or not. :wonder:
    What is the counter move to beat deejay meaty combo from behind ?
    Just making sure, but you're talking about when you get knocked down and DeeJay goes for a meaty, crossup j.MK as you're standing up?

    I don't know. :bgrin: I have done stuff like LP headbutt which whiffs entirely but has enough invincibility to get you away (kinda like Chun's Bird Kick). I also believe any of the down-up specials can get you away 'cause they're invincible, but I believe you can get punished from behind if DeeJay reacts quickly enough. I don't have time to test this stuff for sure right now, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help you out.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yes, from standing up after knock down with the annoying deejay meaty move...

    hate those sickening move... lol
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    If the opponent is all the way in the corner, ochio doesn't cross up. Raisin's guess that your opponent wasn't all the way to the corner sounds spot on to me.

    You should just block DeeJay's crossup jumping forward. You can buttslam out of it, but it's not worth the risk because if you successfully do a reversal buttslam you either go free or get punished for it, and if you mess up on the reversal buttslam you get comboed, probably dizzed, and then the round is pretty much over. The best way to deal with that situation is to block and immediately store an ochio and start drumming the punches, so that if DeeJay wanted to go for a throw or if he messes up on his poke strings you'll get a free throw, but if he successfully poke strings out of harm's way, whatever, not a big deal.

    It's really stupid for DeeJay to close enough on Honda to go for a crossup jumping forward. DeeJay does much better against Honda by keeping him out with max outs, upkicks, and various normals than he does if he tries to get in; he'll probably win if he keeps Honda out, but he'll probably lose if Honda gets in.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It's really stupid for DeeJay to close enough on Honda to go for a crossup jumping forward... You should just block [it] and immediately store an ochio and start drumming the punches...
    Thanks, I knew there was a good reason why people rarely try to cross Honda up in high-level matches. Am I correct in assuming this pretty much extends to all opponents fighting Honda and not just DeeJay?

    When and how do you store the oicho, during the blockstun of blocking the initial crossup jump attack? That takes pretty fast input, no?
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Meh, it's not hard to get an ochio motion in there, you have enough time. You can buffer the ochio motion into your blocking, do the motion once you've started blocking, whatever.

    It's stupid for most characters to get close to Honda, especially characters that do better when they keep him out. The characters Honda beats usually want to get close to him, but not necessarily to throw him. Gief and Hawk want to tick throw him, but that's fine for them because their throw ranges are larger than Honda's ochio range.
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  • EhondaEhonda Nothingness of Xband Joined: Posts: 399
    crossing honda up is suicide due to the ochio. block then oichio. if it misses you block.
    aka Nothingness from xband
    t+ T+ -r+ m+ s+ v+ M+ o+
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n6J6aUfa2_8 (me playing ST and losing
    SUMO
  • The MullahThe Mullah lk kara throw repeat Joined: Posts: 2,666
    i tried having a bash with hinda on my xbox copy of AE and i couldn't get the stored ochio to work. i'd do HCB , hold d/b for a second and the release the punches and nothing would happen. WHat am i doing wrong? i could get them ove to come out normally
  • Footsy BebopFootsy Bebop Joined: Posts: 326
    Did you pick old ST Honda? you have to hold the back button and hit start when you select super turbo mode, to get the true ST versions with stored supers/moves, you'll hear a different chime when you do this correctly.
  • The MullahThe Mullah lk kara throw repeat Joined: Posts: 2,666
    thanks for that footsy, works a charm!
  • JudeJude M.O.D.O.K. AVENGERS Joined: Posts: 348
    I went to DBQ BBQ the other weekend. I had only been to a few tournaments previously, and this was the first one that I did fairly well in.

    I had a great round of Honda Dic matches against NKI that I learned an immense amount from. Which I'd like to break down and talk about but I'll do that later, since none of them were taped. There are some matches that you can watch though and tell me what you think.

    There were some situations that I ran into that I wasn't really sure how to handle. I've watched them a lot and have a pretty good idea of what I could have done different or things to try but the more input I could get the better.





    I'm not sure quite what I was trying to do with that first buttsmash.

    At about 0:20 I was trying to jab headbutt when she was flipping over me. I guess that probably isn't a good idea since I'd loose my charge. I'm not sure what the hitbox for the headbutt is either whether it would hit behind me or not. I figure the best option is to just try to block and oichio when she lands.

    I got kind of greedy going for a third throw in the corner, and I was half expecting the super, would a buttsmash on wake up been my only/best option to avoid it?

    I had some timing issues in the second match and wasn't sure quite what to do when she was flipping over me again at the end.

    The second match he played a more defensive and gave me a little harder time. I still could have come out on top though if I had made a few better choices and was just more familiar with what to do in certain situations I think.

    I'd be happy for your input.
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  • Warrior's DreamsWarrior's Dreams 梅原 > Wong Joined: Posts: 1,292
    I'm no expert, but I can offer some observations:

    Above all else, STORE YOUR OICHO whenever possible! A good place for this is in video 2, 0:40-0:43 seconds. Once Chun countered your jump in attempt, she moved in for some c.jabs. You have to do the stored oicho motion in the air and hold db. Since she was so close, you could've used your stored oicho and gained control of the match. Another good place you couldve used this is at about 1:00 in video 1. You sumo splashed and landed just short of hitting her, but close enough to where you could've used stored oicho and taken over the match

    Another things to work on is crossing up with a belly flop-> stored oicho. Again, unless Chun is charging down, she has no reliable anti air if shes on the ground and you're about to attack from the air. She has up kicks, but if you can get in a postiion where she isnt charging down, then bellyflop->stored oicho -> c.jab->oicho her to death.

    EDIT: Ok, maybe she does have a reliable anti-air with s.mk or s.rh. Anybody want to confirm this?

    I'm not sure if this is possible, but in the last seconds of match 2, when she had you in the corner, and was hitting you several times when you were blocking, you might have been able to interrupt those with a medium sumo splash, kinda like ryu would with a DP.

    For the flip kick, I would just hold downback and block it. Then maybe medium sumo splash/oicho/c.jab mixup depending on your gut reaction.

    Dont jump over her fireballs, but block them instead. Even though it still pushes you away, she cant do them forever. Keits knew that because of Honda's big ass hitbox, it'd be easier to hit you with them. Honda seems to have to jump earlier to avoid them. Knowing this, Keits buffered the lightning legs in the fireball recovery animation, and it worked well. If she does throw fireballs for what seems like forever, then shes getting predictable and you can bellyflop -> stored oicho her.

    If you must jump, try to make it so that either your j.mk/j.rh hits her so that you can gain a little more hang time and hopefully clear the fireball, or, to down lk to reduce your hitbox. Store the oicho throw as well and if you see an opportunity, use it.

    If you jump at an enemy but when you land you arent close enough to do stored oicho, and you anticipate this (through practice), keep tapping mp so when you land, you can do the moving HHS and push her back some.

    Hope this helps
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++












    Ok, now I have 2 questions; both involve cross ups:

    1) Lets say Honda is on the left, opponent is on the right. When honda crosses up someone with d.mk (bellyflop), he can store the oicho, but initially he is facing right. But, when he lands, now he is facing left.
    So my question is this: When do you start storing the oicho? When is is still facing right, or when you switch directions and face left? When do you exceute it as well? Does negative edging help any?

    2)
    Posted by ehonda
    crossing honda up is suicide due to the ochio. block then oichio. if it misses you block.

    Similar question, except now someone is crossing up honda. When do you store the oicho? While honda is facing right? or when honda turns around and is facing left? When do you excecute it? Does negative edging help any?
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  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Jude,

    From the right range forward buttsmash can counter almost anything Chun does, including her Super if you time it right. But if she fakes you out and you whiff it you will get punished.



    Warrior,



    I always do the Ochio in the direction that Honda will be facing AFTER the cross-up. That has always worked for me. Kind of like if someone crosses you up while your charging for a headbutt in one direction if you flip your joystick to the other side at the same time Honda turns around (goes from facing left to facing right for example), then you'll keep your charge.

    And you should always negative edge the Ochio, I now almost always negative edge all three punch buttons then release them one after the other (kinda like negative edge and piano at the same time, thanks for that tip Ultradavid!). That way you'll just end up blocking if you mess up or they reversal.
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  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    Random awesomeness: on GGPO the other day with a pretty cool dude named Top-Ninja. While he was playing as Guile, and he air threw me out of a butt splash. I thought it was pretty frickin cool. :rofl:

    Regarding Honda's headbutt, which characters have a rapid fire normal (standing or crouching jabs or shorts, I guess) that will beat it? Trade with it?

    Which characters are able to punish the headbutt on block? With what?
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