Honda thread

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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    I mash on fierce using two fingers in conjunction. I find that I can tap much faster and stronger using two fingers to mash on the same button at the same time.

    So I basically press jab with my pointer, and immediately mash on fierce with my middle and ring finger. It works pretty well for me.
  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    Hey fellow Honda-players,

    I have a few questions regarding combos.

    1. crossup j. d+forward, close st. jab, close st. strong, linked into far st. fierce, dizzy

    It seems as if the last st. fierce will never connect, since the opponent will be pushed back to far. Does anyone know if this combos is even possible in ST?

    2. crossup j. roundhouse, low short, low short, fierce headbutt.

    Almost same problem, the fierce headbutt wont combo. Why?

    3. crossup j. roundhouse, low short cancel into fierce headbutt.

    How can you get enough charge to execute fierce headbutt?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    yokai_6 wrote: »
    Hey fellow Honda-players,

    I have a few questions regarding combos.

    1. crossup j. d+forward, close st. jab, close st. strong, linked into far st. fierce, dizzy

    It seems as if the last st. fierce will never connect, since the opponent will be pushed back to far. Does anyone know if this combos is even possible in ST?

    2. crossup j. roundhouse, low short, low short, fierce headbutt.

    Almost same problem, the fierce headbutt wont combo. Why?

    3. crossup j. roundhouse, low short cancel into fierce headbutt.

    How can you get enough charge to execute fierce headbutt?

    1. That combo indeed does work, but it's a 1f link each between each of the punch hits. What's worse is that frame skip tends to make this combo extremely difficult to pull off, if not close to impossible, on a consistent basis.

    2. At far distances, cr.short x headbutt won't connect on most opponents. This type of combo is easier to land on characters with very wide hurt boxes, such as Dhalsim, Gief, Fei, etc...

    3. You have to change charge sides. So when you jump, you start charging down-back as soon as you can. As you cross over your opponent's body, you have to switch to the opposing side's db.

    So let's say you're on P1 side. You jump and hold down-left on your stick. As you cross over them, you have to move the stick to the down-right position, since that's the down-back position on the P2 side. If you do this properly, you'll retain charge, because the game won't be able to tell that you moved your stick. It'll just read that you continued to store down-back, even though you crossed your opponent up.

    Tbh, it's easier, and probably more practical, to learn to do basic ochio setups, or do crossup ~ cl.st.jab ~ cr.short x strong or fierce hands.
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    yokai_6, if you're looking for a cross-up combo the two I use the most are cross-up, st.jab, cr.short, Fierce Headbutt and cross-up, st.jab, cr.short, strong HHS. The first one gives you enough time to charge headbutt so you don't have to worry about switching charges and it doesn't push you too far away like cr.short, cr.short Headbutt does (as a side note, cr.short, cr.short HHS WILL combo on everyone). The second one is harder but you can land a surprise Ochio afterwards if your opponent isn't expecting it. Here's a vid I made a long time ago with just about every Honda combo possible (recorded it on HDR since I didn't have anyway to record off my PC at the time, so some of the combos did in Remix mode, some in Classic mode, but all are possible in plain vanilla ST):


    GGPO name : madpossum
  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    edited October 2013
    Thanks to you two for your in depth replies! Btw eltrouble, I really liked your Arkadeum tutorials.

    mad possum, mad props (no pun intended) for the combo vid man. I already watched the other honda vid you posted earlier a lot of times. During the new vid, at 0:38 you do the crossup j.down+forward, cr. short, cr. short, headbutt. Is Guile also considered a "fat" character, or does the corner prevent the pushback somehow?
    Post edited by yokai_6 on
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    yokai_6 wrote: »
    Thanks to you two for your in depth replies! Btw eltrouble, I really liked your Arkadeum tutorials.

    mad possum, mad props (no pun intended) for the combo vid man. I already watched the other honda vid you posted earlier a lot of times. During the new vid, at 0:38 you do the crossup j.down+forward, cr. short, cr. short, headbutt. Is Guile also considered a "fat" character, or does the corner prevent the pushback somehow?

    Thanks. I'm glad the tutorials are helping people out there. They're a bit hokey and off-the-cuff, but it's my own small way of contributing to the scene.

    That combo does work on Guile, but you have to link it pretty fast to get it to connect. It helps to switch charge as you're crossing up your opponent, which lets you get charge for headbutt earlier, which helps encourage you to hit those links and cancels faster.

    Side note: That st.jab, st.strong, st.fierce combo is absolutely disgusting. 1f links between each one. Only person I've seen land that combo, or even attempt it, is Kusumondo.
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Practically everything works against Guile, that's why I always use him in my examples, LOL. The cr.short x 2 combo does work outside the corner but, like you surmised, it's easier in the corner because you don't get pushed back. The cross-up, st.strong, cr.Roundhouse, or st.Roundhouse combos don't work on everyone either, but the one ending in cr.roundhouse is nice because of the knockdown and it leaves you right next to them for more cross-up/wake-up goodness.

    You're right Eltrouble, the 3 punch link combo is stupid hard (and not worth the trouble IMO). Even landing it for the combo vid took a few tries. I only try it in match if I'm just showboating or screwing around and even then usually miss it LOL. Can count the times I've landed it in a match on one hand over the years. Honda has much better and more consistent options. Plus, no one really even is that impressed with a link combo even if you do pull it off, not flashy enough, LOL.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    Honestly, out of all the "advanced" combos Honda has, I'd either go for one that ends in a hard knockdown, or one that ends in a strong/fierce HHS setup into ochio. It's like free, tacked-on damage with no risk.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Honestly, out of all the "advanced" combos Honda has, I'd either go for one that ends in a hard knockdown, or one that ends in a strong/fierce HHS setup into ochio. It's like free, tacked-on damage with no risk.


    This. don't worry about combos in ST I was winning games for at least 2 years before learning a single combo. And I basically only use them when I dizzy the opponent. Work on footsies and traps. The ochio loop (only x2 if not in the corner) is much more worth the effort you put into learning it. Honestly, in high level play, you very rarely see combos in ST. Because there are very few chances to land them, or there are much better options.

    Honda can do lots of bs with Honda without combos once you get close, ochio, that gdlk f.HK, HHS, and if they can't reversal/fireball happy/can't antiair, buttslam.

    Don't worry about combos. You don't need them unless you just want to show off. Really, they're more effort than they're worth. If you're really so inclined, learn deep jump in normal, land, normal xx special for when you get a dizzy. That's all I use. Really.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    edited October 2013
    I know that Honda does not rely on combos to deal damage, but there are situations, in wich they come in handy. For example, at the wake up game (cross up to mix thinks up or keep em guessing), or if dizzied (especially if dizzied by a throw/oicho). Since I can't just oicho again, but still want to make use of the dizzy, the thing I am looking for would be the simple jump normal, land normal xx headbutt, simple to do. But sometimes I am close to the opponent, so walking back would be a bad idea, so I am looking for a cross up variation again. Those were the situations I had in mind when asking about those combos.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    If you're so close that a j.crossup normal would overshoot them, start with a neutral jump.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    I've been getting creamed with Blanka offline and online. Was looking at the wiki for Honda and Blanka, and I realize now my gameplan should be to keep Blanka out as much as possible, but if I DO somehow manage to get myself in a bind, and getting constantly crossed up and pressured with j.shorts and tick-throws, are there some tips to get around this?

    Or maybe just try and be patient, block and try to reversal throw when I expect a tick-throw?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    fffffff wrote: »
    I've been getting creamed with Blanka offline and online. Was looking at the wiki for Honda and Blanka, and I realize now my gameplan should be to keep Blanka out as much as possible, but if I DO somehow manage to get myself in a bind, and getting constantly crossed up and pressured with j.shorts and tick-throws, are there some tips to get around this?

    Or maybe just try and be patient, block and try to reversal throw when I expect a tick-throw?

    Yeah, you just lame out. Hold down-back, occasionally do hands, and punish all jump-ins with headbutts.

    If you know how to abuse the ochio tricks, no Blanka should ever successfully land a tick throw. There are ochio glitches in the game that allow you to "store" the motion. So you do forward, df, d, db, and hold that position. As long as you hold that position, you simply perform the ochio by pressing a punch button. Dirty.

    Double this with the fact that you can negative edge the ochio motion, meaning you do the special move by RELEASING punches instead of pressing it. Since ochio has no whiff animation, this literally means you can go for a risk-free ochio everytime, simply by holding the motion and releasing punches. This basically guarantees that no one can ever safely tick throw Honda, and it also means that offensive ochios can be made completely risk-free from reversals.

    Combine that with solid defense, and Blanka shouldn't be an issue.
  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Thanks man. I forgot to mention I'm mainly using O.Honda, so I'm looking for more traditional alternatives to escaping crossup and tick-throw setups
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    fffffff wrote: »
    Thanks man. I forgot to mention I'm mainly using O.Honda, so I'm looking for more traditional alternatives to escaping crossup and tick-throw setups

    That's a little trickier then. Blanka has a LOT of good options against Honda when he crosses you up, since you lose all your charges. At this point, you're susceptible to all of his mixups, much like any other character, since you literally have no good reversal option.

    If he ops to do another crossup, and he's being very predictable about it, it's possible to quickly walk under him and trade with a st.fierce. Very difficult and risky to do, since it requires extremely tight spacing and timing. Another good option is to simply jump out of the mixup with d.forward body splash. It has a huge hit and hurt box, still beat him out of a jump, or even trade with the j.light depending on the spacing. He might even air reset you, but it's kind of worth it, since it disrupts his timing and setup.

    Best option, as usual, is to simply avoind getting crossed up in the first time. Make good use of O.Honda's very excellent st.kicks to whiff punish, push him out of distance, and use Hands to dominate the space in front of you. Preferred anti-air is headbutt, so you may need to do hands backwards from time to time to maintain charge, but a well-timed late buttslam should work as well, although difficult to time properly.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    I was trying out o.honda for funs and accidentally got the throw freeze glitch.

    Does anybody know what causes it ?
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Wasn't aware O.Honda had a throw freeze glitch, Shari. Could you elaborate on the specifics of what happened?
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    edited November 2013
    I've done it before as well but couldn't figure out why it happened. It happens when two players go for a throw at the same time I think, but not sure beyond that.

    Edit: Found a couple of videos of it happening to me from a while ago:



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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    edited November 2013
    Mine happened against Sim and just like the two you linked happened in the corner.

    Your 2 examples aswell as mine and the one that was in the other thread all happened when honda throws someone into the corner.

    Perhaps that has something to do with it ?

    Both of yours also happened when you throw someone that landed behind you but i can't clearly remember if that was the case when it happened to me.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    Had it happen once more.

    This time also while throwing into the corner.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Have you tried unfreezing it by doing a special attack or something? Guile's throw glitch in WW could be unfrozen by doing a Flash Kick. Try Headbutt or Sumo Splash next time you're frozen.
  • ExposedDExposedD Persona 5 Joined: Posts: 6,307
    I want to see somebody pull that stuff off in a tournament , would be great.
    affinity wrote: »
    I mean, you can't even play as a cat in that game. wtf. it's 2017.
    chadouken! wrote: »
    It's called Sonic the Fucking Hedgehog, not Sonic the Cat, you dumb bitch.
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    ExposedD wrote: »
    I want to see somebody pull that stuff off in a tournament , would be great.

    It doesn't work on Japanese or American boards so you're probably never going to see that. :P

    I'll try doing a headbutt/splash next time it happens on GGPO.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • sarousarou Joined: Posts: 16
    edited November 2013
    Happened to me long time ago on GGPO too. I can't remember all the details but it was just a midscreen honda backthrow. Funny because I thought it was just some emulation issue or something because I hadn't heard of it since lol.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    Also is there a better crossup combo for O.Honda than:

    xup j.mk - st.mp - cr.lp - hands ?
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    Maybe try checking the o.honda videos here: http://www.strevival.com/yt/
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    So am I crazy, or can Honda not perform a Sumo Smash on CPS1 SF2 charging downback to upback (need to end the special going straight neutral up)? Works on Super and ST but not HF (at least not on XBL HF). Weirdness.

    I think he only got that move in HF, not CE or WW. It's done by pressing the kick at neutral before going up.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    edited January 2014
    Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    Different. I'll give that a try. Don't know how I played Honda before ST. CPS1 Honda sucks so much in comparison. No headbutt or sumo smash knockdown. All he (HF Honda) has is that HK Sumo Smash that hits on the way up... which is nice but no where near as important as HHS that move forward and ochio.

    I like Super Honda aka O.Honda. He's just a very different animal, especially with his lack of floaty fierce. You need ridiculous reactions to be able to reliably nj.mk over fireballs.

    It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    I get ya. I cut my teeth on HF and played O.Honda a little when I first started playing ST on GGPO in preparation for HDR.
    eltrouble wrote: »
    It's not so much that CPS-1 Honda sucks, it's more like everyone else is better. You think fighting fireball characters in ST is bad, try doing that shit against WW Guile, CE Ryu/Dhalsim/Sagat, or HF (anyone with fireball).

    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    I've seen that before, but the WW Guile jab re-dizzy is a lot harder to set up than it sounds.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Shari wrote: »
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

    Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    fffffff wrote: »
    Shari wrote: »
    So honda Bearhug.

    Is there a list of how the crossup after works against different characters ?

    Some seem lag in the air longer than others so the crossup will whiff.
    Wheter it crosses up or not seems to also depend on what side you are on.

    Have you had any luck figuring this out with consistency? I know SOME of it might just be hitbox-related with certain characters, for example the crossup seems to always whiff on Ryu. But for characters I can cross-up with d+mk following a fierce grab, I still cannot be 100% sure they will actually get crossed up. Sometimes you land in the front anyway. That isn't a horrible thing, but if I KNOW I'm going to land in the front, would prefer to use j.HK.

    It has to do with when they pop out.
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  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Didn't even consider that, thanks!
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

    Wait, WW Guile's Stun/Restun combo is jab jab jab jab jab jab jab jab? HOLY SHIT, I gotta crack out Anniversary edition and pull that shit!
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,625
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Heh. I would think fighting CE/HF guile would be worse than WW since WW guile only has one sonic boom speed IIRC.

    I think they are, just because they have more varied move sets to play with. But you can't underestimate the stupidity of jab jab jab jab jab jab jab stun and restun combos. You get caught once and it's round over, and it takes zero skill to pull off.

    Wait, WW Guile's Stun/Restun combo is jab jab jab jab jab jab jab jab? HOLY SHIT, I gotta crack out Anniversary edition and pull that shit!

    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I believe several other WW characters also have a re-dizzy. I know Chun can do it with her standard jump-in, st.str, cr.RH, and shotos often do it with jumping RH, st.fierce xx hadouken.

    I suppose Honda has one too.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    In a game where you can cps-1 chain any normal into another, pretty much everyone has a redizzy combo. I think HF is the only one with a little more restrictions, so it makes harder for the rest of the case (unless you're Dictator)
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    Pretty sure HF bison lost all his combo goodies from CE. HF Bison is easily the worst version of his character.
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    Whoops. Got the game mixed up. I meant CE Dictator. Everyone had a dizzy and re-dizzy in WW, but since that sort of stuff got toned down in general, it highlights Dictator's strength in that he can do it off of a scissor kick on hit OR on block.
  • vandarkholmevandarkholme Joined: Posts: 388
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?
    Sutorito Faita : Sad strike
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?
    Fierce and Roundhouse holds (bear hug and knees) can be followed by safe jumps and baits, so they often allow you to glue onto the enemy and land more damage over time. This is specially true midscreen, where oichio allows the player to escape. Shogatsu is knows for his nasty throw loops and mix-ups, for example.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    To be fair though, O.Honda ONLY has tick throw setups with no ochio :P

    You can also do ambiguous and delayed crossups after a fierce grab. It's quite good for repeat damage setups, and if need be, you can always end it with an ochio.
  • James_OJames_O Joined: Posts: 14
    Honda's pressure after grabs is so great it always seems more worth it to me to grab first, unless you are worried about getting thrown yourself - Honda's normal throw range is better than a lot of characters, though. Every character can be pressured in some fashion after a fierce grab (some easier than others), so you could always tick into ochio or bait a reversal after already doing the fierce grab damage.

    His normal strong throw is also integral for tossing opponents into the corner and maintaining pressure.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,712
    The only issue is that Honda's walk speed is so bad, it tends to downplay how good his throw range is. It's similar in the way that Chun and Vega have decent and bad throw ranges respectively, but their walk speed tends to make up for that weakness.

    So it's also an element of knowing the mind games around the throw. How to bait out certain attacks, whiff punish it, preemptively throw out a sweep, how to train your opponent to block in order to open them up for that throw, etc... The metagame around this stuff is pretty complex beyond just examining throw ranges.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,172
    edited March 2014
    I noticed, that some japanese players tend to go for normal tick throws instead of ticks into ochio? Any particular reason for it?

    Like others have mentioned, Honda has amazing options off his HP/HK throws. If the Honda player catches Vega, Balrog, Guile, or Deejay (super non-withstanding for the last three) near midscreen with ether throw the round is likely over. Those throws will also give Chun, Bison, and Dhalsim a really tough time too.

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