Honda thread

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  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Surprised this hasn't been posted here yet. Could possibly lead to a new tactic.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    whats going on in there? can someone describe?
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    whats going on in there? can someone describe?
    I guess it is the same thing that allows Chun to do walk-up cr.fwd xx super: being able to stop walking and still keeping the super stored. I've just done it in SSF2X and it works.
  • MilaneaMilanea Joined: Posts: 11
    Yeah, it's exactly the same thing with honda ! :)
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I guess it is the same thing that allows Chun to do walk-up cr.fwd xx super: being able to stop walking and still keeping the super stored. I've just done it in SSF2X and it works.

    I don't know how to do that either. Sorry.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I don't know how to do that either. Sorry.
    LOL, OK! Well, there two things about it. The first one is that if you stop holding towards, you can still do the super by moving the stick towards again soon enough. Thus, you can do it by just walking up, doing ↓ (or neutral) + button, then doing → + button. The other thing is that you can move the stick back and forth and still have the super stored. So you can walk up till just outside sweep range, mash ← →, and press → + button when you see him whiff anything. But Honda's is far less useful then Chun's as Chun's normals, super, walk speed and priority are all better.

    The command for what is done in that Honda video is
    ← → ← → (hold), neutral + Jab, → + any punch.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Why does he push cr mk 3 times before he does it.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Why does he push cr mk 3 times before he does it.
    Tourette syndrome, maybe. They are not needed.

    Edit: that's cr.Short he used, BTW.
  • MilaneaMilanea Joined: Posts: 11
    Actually, you're not forced to do a neutral before your punch, you can move backward a brief instant and back on your forward position. I think it's easier than respect properly a neutral. With honda it's not useless, as I said in another topic, you can do a neutral jump with the HP to shift him above a hado with that technique and have the super.
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    you can do a neutral jump with the HP to shift him above a hado with that technique and have the super.

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  • MilaneaMilanea Joined: Posts: 11
    I recorded my input to show you however i don't have any camera or anything like that now to film my arcade-stick. :/
    http://www.2shared.com/file/rZoe8M4U/ssf2t-hondasuper.html
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I just saw the game opening till the title screen! :razzy:
  • MilaneaMilanea Joined: Posts: 11
    oh really ? :/ It works for me. (I use FBAshuffle)
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    VIDEOPLEASE.NO THAT I DOUBTYOU. I JUST WANT A VIDEO
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,187
    Interesting. In ST is Honda's super still not safe if it connects close for more than 2 hits?
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Interesting. In ST is Honda's super still not safe if it connects close for more than 2 hits?

    Most of the time all 4 hits will combo from point blank range. But sometimes (I think it's character dependent), instead of activating the 2nd Torpedo, the 1st Torpedo will just pass through after hitting the opponent (like in the vid I posted), only at point blank range though. And sometimes the 2nd Torpedo won't combo after the 1st Torpedo, even at point blank range, meaning you can reversal attack in between.
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    crossup and buffer super by Milanea
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Nice video. BTW, if you check that Thunderbeast Cup video where Futachan faces Otochun's and the 3 Claw teams, you can find them playing casuals sometime. Kusumondo does some sick cross-up combos into super there. I believe he lands those three times, IIRC. It would be nice if one could tell what exactly he used.
  • TheMuffinManTheMuffinMan 「満」 「寸」 「越」 Joined: Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    With Kusumondo showing us what's up at Tournament of Legends this year, I'm curious as to what kind of stuff you Sumo huggers picked up from him. Did anyone get a chance to talk to him and get some tips or tactics?
    "That you float along in the ocean and live a life of peace does not come from your own resourcefulness." - Demon's Sermon on Martial Arts
  • vandarkholmevandarkholme Joined: Posts: 388
    How the fuck do I beat shoryu happy people? cr.jab into command grab doesnt work against them cause they shoryu, if I do cr.jab block theyll be too far away to punish theyr uppercut or they can option select throw. which version of sumo splash has the most inv and what uppercuts does it beat? I'm new to this game but I feel I shouldnt perfect people online cause theyll just pick osagat on me and ill lose. Fuck it, sometimes I feel like learning Claw for this shit
    Sutorito Faita : Sad strike
    vandark, you should hear a cool pherai story from me one day then. Add it to all your history. I'll probably remember it closer to EVO time and just retell it to the forum when I'm probably going to re-tell some more anyway. Its not the glory hole one though, that one's too legendary. You probably know more about that than me.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    What situation are you being dp'd in? It sounds like you're getting uppercutted in a variety of scenarios.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    How the fuck do I beat shoryu happy people? cr.jab into command grab doesnt work against them cause they shoryu, if I do cr.jab block theyll be too far away to punish theyr uppercut or they can option select throw. which version of sumo splash has the most inv and what uppercuts does it beat? I'm new to this game but I feel I shouldnt perfect people online cause theyll just pick osagat on me and ill lose. Fuck it, sometimes I feel like learning Claw for this shit

    You bait and punish. Playing Honda is all about learning how to feel for the momentum of the match, combined with observing the tendencies of your opponent. If they tend to uppercut a lot, simply bait it out with a safe meaty, or a fake meaty, and punish.

    In your specific scenario, I'm assuming you're attempting to do cr.jab into ochio. While they can uppercut the cr.jab, the ochio should be 100% safe from a reversal uppercut. As long as you negative edge the ochio (you release the punch buttons when you perform the motion, instead of pressing down on it), then there's no way he can uppercut you, since the ochio has no whiff animation.

    If they're doing random uppercuts to try and catch one of your pokes, you can punish with either a HP headbutt or st.RH to knock them down.

    LK version of sumo splash seems to have the most invulnerability, but you shouldn't rely on it. Knowing when and where to butt slam is pretty tricky for Honda players, especially against the shotos, since a lot of them will simply uppercut you or punish it. None of the buttslams will beat an uppercut, at best it will trade. Smart Hondas usually go for the meaty LK buttslam after an ochio in the corner, in order to land the trade against a shoto, which usually results in a stun.

    O.Sagat actually isn't too bad of a fight for Honda. You can headbutt low tiger shots clean with proper timing, and you can easily pressure Sagat with hands, and j.forward seems to trade or beat clean a lot of Sagat's anti-airs, except for the uppercut.
  • vandarkholmevandarkholme Joined: Posts: 388
    Oh sorry, most of the situations I was talking about were cr.jab into ochio.
    Thanks a lot eltrouble, I see what my problem was... I drummed on the buttons when doing the cr.jab into ochio instead of negative edging it.
    I asked about the sumo splash because sometimes I saw videos with Honda players doing splashes sometimes instead of ochio after cr.jab, is it because the Honda players want to trade and inflict some damage when the other characters reversal cant be punished on block?
    about meaties, are there meaties in this game that completely nullify some reversals with inv? In 3s there are moves like that but I'm not so sure about ST since I still dont have a lot of experience, and sometimes when I do some inv moves on wakeup and some meaty normal hits me, I just think that its my because I timed my reversal poorly

    Thanks a lot for your post, learned a lot from it : )
    Sutorito Faita : Sad strike
    vandark, you should hear a cool pherai story from me one day then. Add it to all your history. I'll probably remember it closer to EVO time and just retell it to the forum when I'm probably going to re-tell some more anyway. Its not the glory hole one though, that one's too legendary. You probably know more about that than me.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Honda

    A lot of the information in the above link is pretty solid.

    A lot of Honda players do the cr.jab x ochio like this:
    • Press cr.jab, then press strong and fierce, and hold all 3 buttons.
    • When you do the ochio, neg-edge piano all 3 buttons, doesn't really matter which direction you start in. So you release fierce, strong, then jab, or vice versa.
    Like I stated in the previous post, a lot of Hondas go for lk buttslam after the ochio. They do this because they realize that a lot of players tend to try to reversal out of the meaty cr.jab, otherwise they'll end up eating an ochio. If they try to reversal the ochio, it will never work, and they'll get punished. Hondas do LK buttslam in order to trade or beat their reversal attempts. Some players try to reversal throw out of a mis-timed cr.jab, in which case, the buttslam will beat them clean. Either way, Honda is looking to for damage in any way he can. Since ochio does a lot of stun damage, usually any follow-up attacks will result in a stun, and a quick combo for the win. Even if your opponent simply blocks the buttslam, you're still in a very good position to land damage and/or keep your opponent cornered, which is where Honda makes his bread.

    Yes, there are meaties in the game that can nullify certain reversals, and it depends entirely on the matchup. If you look at the 'moves analysis' section of the Honda wiki, you'll notice that Honda's st.jab and cr.short have a LOT of red hit boxes that don't have much blue hurtbox behind it. This means that his red box will hit your opponent, but since there's no blue box, a perfect timed and spaced attack will be safe from certain reversals. Trial-and-error will teach you which ones you should use, when, where, and against which opponents.

    It's similar to how easy it is to safely meaty Chun on wake-up. Ryu's cr.strong is a very good poke, since the entire arm is invincible. So if he does a cr.strong on her wake-up at max range, there's nothing she can do except reversal super in order to punish it. Any of her reversals, upkicks or SPK, will just whiff, and Ryu can freely punish.
  • CamRacCamRac Charisma of the Streets Joined: Posts: 116
    Don't know if anyone has addressed this before, but I've decided to try to pick up SF4 after EVO (because I want the competition now that my local ST scene is pretty much gone, and I feel the game is the lesser of evils when it comes to the modern game line-up).

    That being said, I've been trying to play an aggressive Honda, but I've been struggling to win matches. In ST, I was able to play aggressively most of the time, but in this game, it's like I need to play Honda down-back 90% of the time to get anywhere. I don't know if I'm just playing incorrectly or what...

    Point is, is there a character in AE2012 that you guys feel like performs like ST Honda (aside from Honda, of course, if that's even true)? If so, who?
    GHOST TRAIN
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Don't know if anyone has addressed this before, but I've decided to try to pick up SF4 after EVO (because I want the competition now that my local ST scene is pretty much gone, and I feel the game is the lesser of evils when it comes to the modern game line-up).

    That being said, I've been trying to play an aggressive Honda, but I've been struggling to win matches. In ST, I was able to play aggressively most of the time, but in this game, it's like I need to play Honda down-back 90% of the time to get anywhere. I don't know if I'm just playing incorrectly or what...

    Point is, is there a character in AE2012 that you guys feel like performs like ST Honda (aside from Honda, of course, if that's even true)? If so, who?
    People who think SF4 is similar to SF got no clue. The way throws, wake-up mix-ups, attacks and pretty much everything works is different. Even attacks who seem to be in both games have completely different hitboxes, start-up and recovery. This applies to normals, specials, supers, everything. It is a very different game and you can not win if you play it like ST. You have to play like what it is: a type of confirm game, in which wins the player that confirms his damage, not the one trading hits wisely or landing well-placed normals.
  • CamRacCamRac Charisma of the Streets Joined: Posts: 116
    People who think SF is similar to SF got no clue. The way throws, wake-up mix-ups, attacks and pretty much everything works is different. Even attacks who seem to be in both games have completely different hitboxes, start-up and recovery. This applies to normals, specials, supers, everything. It is a very different game and you can not win if you play it like ST. You have to play like what it is: a type of confirm game, in which wins the player that confirms his damage, not the one trading hits wisely or landing well-placed normals.

    Yeah, I've got you. I know I was showing my ignorance by posting here with these questions, but I feel like I'm at a loss. I want so badly to enjoy the game and have people to play...
    GHOST TRAIN
    Choo choo!
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Don't know if anyone has addressed this before, but I've decided to try to pick up SF4 after EVO (because I want the competition now that my local ST scene is pretty much gone, and I feel the game is the lesser of evils when it comes to the modern game line-up).

    That being said, I've been trying to play an aggressive Honda, but I've been struggling to win matches. In ST, I was able to play aggressively most of the time, but in this game, it's like I need to play Honda down-back 90% of the time to get anywhere. I don't know if I'm just playing incorrectly or what...

    Point is, is there a character in AE2012 that you guys feel like performs like ST Honda (aside from Honda, of course, if that's even true)? If so, who?

    You traitor! Jk.

    You cannot play AE like ST because they're completely different games that utilize different system mechanics and skill sets. AE is all about highly defensive play, combined with strong technical knowledge of the game, knowing how to utilize smart option selects, and with 2012, it's all about effective Marvel-type mixups.

    Honda relies more heavily on jab xx fierce HHS pressure, a solid ground game, and being able to retain your back charge for a LP headbutt or EX headbutt. His lack of a stored ochio or stored super hurts his close-up game vs. his ST counterpart, so you really have to be smart with maintaining any offensive momentum you gain.

    I actually think that Balrog plays pretty well in AE2012. He can be played both as a highly defensive characters with a strong footsies game and good defensive options, as well as an aggressive character, with his excellent dash punch and TAP pressure, alongside his easy hit confirms, godlike jab, and highly damaging frame traps.
  • CamRacCamRac Charisma of the Streets Joined: Posts: 116
    You traitor! Jk.

    You cannot play AE like ST because they're completely different games that utilize different system mechanics and skill sets. AE is all about highly defensive play, combined with strong technical knowledge of the game, knowing how to utilize smart option selects, and with 2012, it's all about effective Marvel-type mixups.

    Honda relies more heavily on jab xx fierce HHS pressure, a solid ground game, and being able to retain your back charge for a LP headbutt or EX headbutt. His lack of a stored ochio or stored super hurts his close-up game vs. his ST counterpart, so you really have to be smart with maintaining any offensive momentum you gain.

    I actually think that Balrog plays pretty well in AE2012. He can be played both as a highly defensive characters with a strong footsies game and good defensive options, as well as an aggressive character, with his excellent dash punch and TAP pressure, alongside his easy hit confirms, godlike jab, and highly damaging frame traps.

    Yeah, that makes sense. I also like how in ST you feel almost immediately that you are playing the player over the character - I'm not really feeling this in AE. But yeah, all complaints aside, it's either this or Marvel if I want to partake of the biggest portion of the modern FGC. What a bumerrrrrr.

    Point is, I'm not a traitor. WATCH YOUR MOUTH. lol

    One of my best friends and sparring buddies has a decent AE Balrog, so I'm probably going to try to pick someone else just for character diversity purposes. I just wish I could get that feeling of speed and damage back... It's clear that I can't play Honda if I want to stay on the offensive (Mike Ross got my hopes up haha), so now I'm looking for a character that is fast, damaging, has creative options, and has Marvel mix-ups. I guess I'd be asking for too much if I wanted a character with a good stamina rating, too. I've been messing around with Makoto, Ibuki, Abel, Fei Long, and Adon today, and I don't feel any closer to a legitimate solution to leaving the fat man behind. Maybe I should just play Marvel and accept the myriad of bullshit. :(
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    I made a video on how to do kusumundo's jab cancel into hp hundred hand slap. hope you guys can make use of it.

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    Ah shit..    
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  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Point is, is there a character in AE2012 that you guys feel like performs like ST Honda (aside from Honda, of course, if that's even true)? If so, who?
    Bison plays a lot like honda.

    Invincible psycho crusher for ex, invincible dr, and he can jabbity jab with the best of them
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Bison plays a lot like honda.

    Invincible psycho crusher for ex, invincible dr, and he can jabbity jab with the best of them

    Bison just plays like Bison+. He has a similar play style, except how he's given better defensive options.
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 889
    Well, his offence is way nerfed compared to hdr/st bison. Mk/Hk scissor kicks unsafe as hell, psycho crushers unsafe, juggling mp is terrible, max combo damage is like 300 or something terrible.

    He does have excellent defence though
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Well, his offence is way nerfed compared to hdr/st bison. Mk/Hk scissor kicks unsafe as hell, psycho crushers unsafe, juggling mp is terrible, max combo damage is like 300 or something terrible.

    He does have excellent defence though

    But he does have an extremely good cr.lk, lk scissor, and a fantastic st.rh whose higher angle works well as an AA trade or to stuff jump attempts at close ranges.

    I remember seeing psycho crushers being able to be made safe depending on spacing, as well being used as good meaty attacks to cross-up.
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    7 ways to stored
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Not sure if this is old tech or anything, but I was messing around with Millertime in HDR classic training mode, and figured out a way to option-select the ochio with his headbutt and buttslam. Against Deejay, it was actually very effective to option-select it with cr.fierce. It seems to beat all of his reversal specials except for the super.
  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    I think the butt slam and headbutt ones were known, someone showed them to me before, but that cr. fierce on dj sounds cool.

    one that i use that i don't see a lot others using is against blanka and vega. if they are getting hop happy on their wakeup to escape pressure,
    you can OS with hands that catch them.
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    I think the butt slam and headbutt ones were known, someone showed them to me before, but that cr. fierce on dj sounds cool.

    one that i use that i don't see a lot others using is against blanka and vega. if they are getting hop happy on their wakeup to escape pressure,
    you can OS with hands that catch them.

    MuffinMan told me about that one on facebook a few weeks ago. I didn't really believe him at the time until I tested it out myself. It seems to stuff Deejay whenever he went for his upkicks or spin kicks, with reversal timing or not. Of course it doesn't beat his super, but if you're worried about that, you can just OS the butt slam to beat it on start-up.

    How would you OS hands or ochio? Would this be jab hands? I imagine OS-ing the buttslam or headbutt would be more effective in beating out his back hop, but I'm not sure if that would trade or get beat by reversal up-ball.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Not sure if this is old tech or anything, but I was messing around with Millertime in HDR classic training mode, and figured out a way to option-select the ochio with his headbutt and buttslam. Against Deejay, it was actually very effective to option-select it with cr.fierce. It seems to beat all of his reversal specials except for the super.
    Is it cr.Jab, →↘↓↙(wait a tiny bit) Fierce? I think this can work fine if you find a way to space it so he can only reversal throw the first attack, but not the oichio. Having two chances of using reversal throw would certainly mean a good player would reverse it every time, either before or after the jab. I use cr.Jab (rather slow double-tap) into throw, as a shoto, and it fails against good Dee Jays.
    How would you OS hands or ochio?
    Oichio is the highest priority move, then comes Oni Musou (super), then Hands. T.Akiba used ↙(charge)→↘↓↙↗← to cover all needed directions, pressing P three times before that ← direction, then P+K.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Is it cr.Jab, →↘↓↙(wait a tiny bit) Fierce? I think this can work fine if you find a way to space it so he can only reversal throw the first attack, but not the oichio. Having two chances of using reversal throw would certainly mean a good player would reverse it every time, either before or after the jab. I use cr.Jab (rather slow double-tap) into throw, as a shoto, and it fails against good Dee Jays.

    Oichio is the highest priority move, then comes Oni Musou (super), then Hands. T.Akiba used ↙(charge)→↘↓↙↗← to cover all needed directions, pressing P three times before that ← direction, then P+K.

    That's the input I used, except I double tap the fierce to help land it a bit more consistently. During the time that I attempted it against an opponent in training mode, Deejay was only able to reverse throw the meaty cr.jab, although it seems possible to reverse throw both attempts, it felt very difficult to do so. I don't think it's mind-blowing tech that makes the match any easier, but it's interesting to see that cr.fierce beats all of Deejay's options, which is useful at ranges where he's put in block or hit stun, and he's not close enough to throw you, that his specials will get stuffed by cr.fierce.

    That's a pretty unusual motion for ochio, super, and hands option-selects. When exactly would you press punch during those times to get any of those motions? It looks to be a jumbled mess, but I can kind of spot when you would input/mash the punch button for each of those options. I'm not sure why you would do an up-forward motion though.
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