Honda thread

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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    That's a pretty unusual motion for ochio, super, and hands option-selects. When exactly would you press punch during those times to get any of those motions? It looks to be a jumbled mess, but I can kind of spot when you would input/mash the punch button for each of those options. I'm not sure why you would do an up-forward motion though.

    It's for priority testing so it's supposed to be the motion for all of Honda's specials at once.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    It's for priority testing so it's supposed to be the motion for all of Honda's specials at once.
    Yeah, that's it. I think T.Akiba used a programmable pad for it, and probably pressed punch + kick on wake-up or in blockstun, to prevent moves from coming out before the full motion was complete.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    On Honda vs. Balrog, is there any way to reliably punish blocked jab buffallo headbutts? The other day I played against a friend in an online tournament and has a really hard time dealing with those since they beat pretty much any of Honda's reversal moves so I have to block and punish. Best thing I came up with is cr.fierce. On the corner Rog ends up closer but mid screen things get harder.




    Any other tips, besides headbutting jumps better (being rusty and facing lag isn't a good combination)? BTW, the stored super trick after a jabbed headbutt I stole from babynine works better than expected.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    snip
    sup, my friend! I will watch the videos as soon as I can (busy atm). I have used O.Ken recently against Rog and Jab headbutt actually beated my Jab SRKs a number of times, cos it stays invulnerable for quite some time, and his hurtboxes are not easy to reach. I can not imagine a move of Honda's with better priority than O.Ken's Jab SRK, so I think you really gotta guess right and block. Honda can store the Oichio, so it should at least save you from random kick rushes into throw, wich are a nightmare to most the cast.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Something very strange happened yesterday: I knock someone down in the corner with an Oicho. I had super, so I went for cr.LK xx Super with stored super. The weird thing is that after the cr.LK, cr.HP comes out (comboing), and as I mash HP I cancel the first hit of cr.HP with super. It looked neat as fuck, but I still don't know how the hell that was possible.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Something very strange happened yesterday: I knock someone down in the corner with an Oicho. I had super, so I went for cr.LK xx Super with stored super. The weird thing is that after the cr.LK, cr.HP comes out (comboing), and as I mash HP I cancel the first hit of cr.HP with super. It looked neat as fuck, but I still don't know how the hell that was possible.

    cr.fierce is able to be super-cancelled. It sounded like you just did a cr.lk with meaty timing, pressed cr.HP while you were still buffering the super input, and pressed HP again to cancel the cr.fierce into super.

    A neat trick, but not something I would aim to do on purpose. cr.lk x super seems to work just fine.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    That's not what I mean. Why does cr.HP come out before the super, if I had the super stored (I was holding down-forward all the time after the Oicho)? I never had a punch come out before a stored super, so being able to combo out of a punch was even stranger.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    That's not what I mean. Why does cr.HP come out before the super, if I had the super stored (I was holding down-forward all the time after the Oicho)? I never had a punch come out before a stored super, so being able to combo out of a punch was even stranger.

    You probably did down back Fierce (or neutral down) after storing the Super, and then did forwards again. Chun Li can do the same thing.

    Once you store the Super, you can quickly move the stick to back (or any direction) and then quickly move it to forward again (or down forward), and you won't lose the stored Super. Which means you can do back punch or crouching punch while storing the Super, and that opens up a combo potential. I posted a video at the top of the page of Honda doing neutral jump Fierce followed by stored Super. Same concept.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    Yes, I've known about that trick a long time ago. That's why I'm surprised; I absolutely 100% recall NOT moving from down forward after I had the super stored. I didn't return to neutral or down at any time during the combo.

    I've done cr.LK xx Super during Oicho loops for a long time. I never ever had that combo come out.
  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Anyone know any good O. Honda players to look out for other than Shogatsu? I'm trying to find some match vids.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    fffffff wrote: »
    Anyone know any good O. Honda players to look out for other than Shogatsu? I'm trying to find some match vids.

    Nope. Only other person that I've seen use O.Honda is ultradavid. He's a decent O.Honda player.

  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    http://streetfighterdojo.com/superturbo/honda/hondamatches.html

    There are vids of a couple of other O.Honda players other than Shogatsu (IDK how good they are but there's Bunkichi, Washiga and some others).
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • hlidskjafthlidskjaft Joined: Posts: 32
    i can't execute honda's Fierce HHS. I've tried Plinking, piano'ing, and and mashing. i can do his Jab HHS and Strong HHS without a problem. Is there any tips? if anything, i think my timing might be a lil off. ive tried everything from lp,lp,lp,mp,hp and lp+mp, lp + mp, hp and nothing. some threads say do 4 punch inputs an the last one should be a HP...but still doesn't work. some threads say that doesn't work, and all inputs have to be HP, some threads say do piano, and some people are saying piano doesn't work in ST for honda's Fierce HHS. how do you execute it? someone please explain.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    hlidskjaft wrote: »
    i can't execute honda's Fierce HHS. I've tried Plinking, piano'ing, and and mashing. i can do his Jab HHS and Strong HHS without a problem. Is there any tips? if anything, i think my timing might be a lil off. ive tried everything from lp,lp,lp,mp,hp and lp+mp, lp + mp, hp and nothing. some threads say do 4 punch inputs an the last one should be a HP...but still doesn't work. some threads say that doesn't work, and all inputs have to be HP, some threads say do piano, and some people are saying piano doesn't work in ST for honda's Fierce HHS. how do you execute it? someone please explain.

    Here's my buddy's papercut's video to help you out:



    Basically, you want to buffer the fierce hands by whiffing another button first, which gives you time to do fierce hands properly. In this case, you want to press jab, and immediately start mashing fierce. You need 4 inputs of fierce to get fierce hands. So the inputs are:

    jab, then a split second later, press fierce
    fierce
    fierce
    fierce

    You can also do variations of this system. For example, you can do a st.roundhouse, or cr.roundhouse, and press fierce 4 times. You have much more time to complete the fierce hands inputs since these animations take longer, but by the same token, it's easier to punished those whiffed moves by your opponent.

    Another popular variant is to do a neutral jump fierce into fierce hands. It's great because it allows you to neutral jump a fireball, or anti-air a jumping opponent, and when you land, it goes immediately into fierce hands.

    As far as it's usage goes, most Hondas will be doing jab and strong hands. They're safer, easier to perform consistently, are less likely to be punished by jump attacks, and strong actually does more chip damage at certain ranges due to reduced pushback. Fierce hands are primarily used to gain ground and tag your opponent from a far distance.
  • hlidskjafthlidskjaft Joined: Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    I still can't get it seem to work. I was practicing all day today and I don't think I can get the timing down. I tried lp+mp, lp+mp, lp+mp, mp+hp, mp+hp, hp. And it works lol. A very unique way of doing it, but it works for me
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Practice this first. Mp + hp hp hp hp. The first mp and hp is pressed pretty much the same time followed by 3 quick hp. Practice doing 4 hp and no more. Dont mash mindlessly. Do it as if you were doing a fireball. Only the required commands and nothing more. After you can get fast hands out with mp as the buffer, move down to lp. Mp has long recovery, giving you more time to hit the 3 quick hp that you need. Watch that video and listen to the button press rhythm. Good luck.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    edited June 2013
    a
    STEAM: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: OG_Rawbertson)
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    Honda / Birdie
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    I usually don't even bother using fierce hands. After looking at the video, I might try. Papercut are you double-tapping fierce or just using one finger? I doubt I could mash hard enough without two.
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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    1 finger. honestly, I'm not even going that fast. It's not hard at all. the trick is pressing lp and hp almost at the same time but lp slightly faster.
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    Ah shit..    
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    I mash on fierce using two fingers in conjunction. I find that I can tap much faster and stronger using two fingers to mash on the same button at the same time.

    So I basically press jab with my pointer, and immediately mash on fierce with my middle and ring finger. It works pretty well for me.
  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    Hey fellow Honda-players,

    I have a few questions regarding combos.

    1. crossup j. d+forward, close st. jab, close st. strong, linked into far st. fierce, dizzy

    It seems as if the last st. fierce will never connect, since the opponent will be pushed back to far. Does anyone know if this combos is even possible in ST?

    2. crossup j. roundhouse, low short, low short, fierce headbutt.

    Almost same problem, the fierce headbutt wont combo. Why?

    3. crossup j. roundhouse, low short cancel into fierce headbutt.

    How can you get enough charge to execute fierce headbutt?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    yokai_6 wrote: »
    Hey fellow Honda-players,

    I have a few questions regarding combos.

    1. crossup j. d+forward, close st. jab, close st. strong, linked into far st. fierce, dizzy

    It seems as if the last st. fierce will never connect, since the opponent will be pushed back to far. Does anyone know if this combos is even possible in ST?

    2. crossup j. roundhouse, low short, low short, fierce headbutt.

    Almost same problem, the fierce headbutt wont combo. Why?

    3. crossup j. roundhouse, low short cancel into fierce headbutt.

    How can you get enough charge to execute fierce headbutt?

    1. That combo indeed does work, but it's a 1f link each between each of the punch hits. What's worse is that frame skip tends to make this combo extremely difficult to pull off, if not close to impossible, on a consistent basis.

    2. At far distances, cr.short x headbutt won't connect on most opponents. This type of combo is easier to land on characters with very wide hurt boxes, such as Dhalsim, Gief, Fei, etc...

    3. You have to change charge sides. So when you jump, you start charging down-back as soon as you can. As you cross over your opponent's body, you have to switch to the opposing side's db.

    So let's say you're on P1 side. You jump and hold down-left on your stick. As you cross over them, you have to move the stick to the down-right position, since that's the down-back position on the P2 side. If you do this properly, you'll retain charge, because the game won't be able to tell that you moved your stick. It'll just read that you continued to store down-back, even though you crossed your opponent up.

    Tbh, it's easier, and probably more practical, to learn to do basic ochio setups, or do crossup ~ cl.st.jab ~ cr.short x strong or fierce hands.
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    yokai_6, if you're looking for a cross-up combo the two I use the most are cross-up, st.jab, cr.short, Fierce Headbutt and cross-up, st.jab, cr.short, strong HHS. The first one gives you enough time to charge headbutt so you don't have to worry about switching charges and it doesn't push you too far away like cr.short, cr.short Headbutt does (as a side note, cr.short, cr.short HHS WILL combo on everyone). The second one is harder but you can land a surprise Ochio afterwards if your opponent isn't expecting it. Here's a vid I made a long time ago with just about every Honda combo possible (recorded it on HDR since I didn't have anyway to record off my PC at the time, so some of the combos did in Remix mode, some in Classic mode, but all are possible in plain vanilla ST):


    GGPO name : madpossum
  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    edited October 2013
    Thanks to you two for your in depth replies! Btw eltrouble, I really liked your Arkadeum tutorials.

    mad possum, mad props (no pun intended) for the combo vid man. I already watched the other honda vid you posted earlier a lot of times. During the new vid, at 0:38 you do the crossup j.down+forward, cr. short, cr. short, headbutt. Is Guile also considered a "fat" character, or does the corner prevent the pushback somehow?
    Post edited by yokai_6 on
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    yokai_6 wrote: »
    Thanks to you two for your in depth replies! Btw eltrouble, I really liked your Arkadeum tutorials.

    mad possum, mad props (no pun intended) for the combo vid man. I already watched the other honda vid you posted earlier a lot of times. During the new vid, at 0:38 you do the crossup j.down+forward, cr. short, cr. short, headbutt. Is Guile also considered a "fat" character, or does the corner prevent the pushback somehow?

    Thanks. I'm glad the tutorials are helping people out there. They're a bit hokey and off-the-cuff, but it's my own small way of contributing to the scene.

    That combo does work on Guile, but you have to link it pretty fast to get it to connect. It helps to switch charge as you're crossing up your opponent, which lets you get charge for headbutt earlier, which helps encourage you to hit those links and cancels faster.

    Side note: That st.jab, st.strong, st.fierce combo is absolutely disgusting. 1f links between each one. Only person I've seen land that combo, or even attempt it, is Kusumondo.
  • mad possummad possum Joined: Posts: 1,091
    Practically everything works against Guile, that's why I always use him in my examples, LOL. The cr.short x 2 combo does work outside the corner but, like you surmised, it's easier in the corner because you don't get pushed back. The cross-up, st.strong, cr.Roundhouse, or st.Roundhouse combos don't work on everyone either, but the one ending in cr.roundhouse is nice because of the knockdown and it leaves you right next to them for more cross-up/wake-up goodness.

    You're right Eltrouble, the 3 punch link combo is stupid hard (and not worth the trouble IMO). Even landing it for the combo vid took a few tries. I only try it in match if I'm just showboating or screwing around and even then usually miss it LOL. Can count the times I've landed it in a match on one hand over the years. Honda has much better and more consistent options. Plus, no one really even is that impressed with a link combo even if you do pull it off, not flashy enough, LOL.
    GGPO name : madpossum
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Honestly, out of all the "advanced" combos Honda has, I'd either go for one that ends in a hard knockdown, or one that ends in a strong/fierce HHS setup into ochio. It's like free, tacked-on damage with no risk.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    eltrouble wrote: »
    Honestly, out of all the "advanced" combos Honda has, I'd either go for one that ends in a hard knockdown, or one that ends in a strong/fierce HHS setup into ochio. It's like free, tacked-on damage with no risk.


    This. don't worry about combos in ST I was winning games for at least 2 years before learning a single combo. And I basically only use them when I dizzy the opponent. Work on footsies and traps. The ochio loop (only x2 if not in the corner) is much more worth the effort you put into learning it. Honestly, in high level play, you very rarely see combos in ST. Because there are very few chances to land them, or there are much better options.

    Honda can do lots of bs with Honda without combos once you get close, ochio, that gdlk f.HK, HHS, and if they can't reversal/fireball happy/can't antiair, buttslam.

    Don't worry about combos. You don't need them unless you just want to show off. Really, they're more effort than they're worth. If you're really so inclined, learn deep jump in normal, land, normal xx special for when you get a dizzy. That's all I use. Really.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
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  • yokai_6yokai_6 Joined: Posts: 6
    edited October 2013
    I know that Honda does not rely on combos to deal damage, but there are situations, in wich they come in handy. For example, at the wake up game (cross up to mix thinks up or keep em guessing), or if dizzied (especially if dizzied by a throw/oicho). Since I can't just oicho again, but still want to make use of the dizzy, the thing I am looking for would be the simple jump normal, land normal xx headbutt, simple to do. But sometimes I am close to the opponent, so walking back would be a bad idea, so I am looking for a cross up variation again. Those were the situations I had in mind when asking about those combos.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    If you're so close that a j.crossup normal would overshoot them, start with a neutral jump.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    I've been getting creamed with Blanka offline and online. Was looking at the wiki for Honda and Blanka, and I realize now my gameplan should be to keep Blanka out as much as possible, but if I DO somehow manage to get myself in a bind, and getting constantly crossed up and pressured with j.shorts and tick-throws, are there some tips to get around this?

    Or maybe just try and be patient, block and try to reversal throw when I expect a tick-throw?
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    fffffff wrote: »
    I've been getting creamed with Blanka offline and online. Was looking at the wiki for Honda and Blanka, and I realize now my gameplan should be to keep Blanka out as much as possible, but if I DO somehow manage to get myself in a bind, and getting constantly crossed up and pressured with j.shorts and tick-throws, are there some tips to get around this?

    Or maybe just try and be patient, block and try to reversal throw when I expect a tick-throw?

    Yeah, you just lame out. Hold down-back, occasionally do hands, and punish all jump-ins with headbutts.

    If you know how to abuse the ochio tricks, no Blanka should ever successfully land a tick throw. There are ochio glitches in the game that allow you to "store" the motion. So you do forward, df, d, db, and hold that position. As long as you hold that position, you simply perform the ochio by pressing a punch button. Dirty.

    Double this with the fact that you can negative edge the ochio motion, meaning you do the special move by RELEASING punches instead of pressing it. Since ochio has no whiff animation, this literally means you can go for a risk-free ochio everytime, simply by holding the motion and releasing punches. This basically guarantees that no one can ever safely tick throw Honda, and it also means that offensive ochios can be made completely risk-free from reversals.

    Combine that with solid defense, and Blanka shouldn't be an issue.
  • ffffffffffffff Joined: Posts: 155
    Thanks man. I forgot to mention I'm mainly using O.Honda, so I'm looking for more traditional alternatives to escaping crossup and tick-throw setups
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    fffffff wrote: »
    Thanks man. I forgot to mention I'm mainly using O.Honda, so I'm looking for more traditional alternatives to escaping crossup and tick-throw setups

    That's a little trickier then. Blanka has a LOT of good options against Honda when he crosses you up, since you lose all your charges. At this point, you're susceptible to all of his mixups, much like any other character, since you literally have no good reversal option.

    If he ops to do another crossup, and he's being very predictable about it, it's possible to quickly walk under him and trade with a st.fierce. Very difficult and risky to do, since it requires extremely tight spacing and timing. Another good option is to simply jump out of the mixup with d.forward body splash. It has a huge hit and hurt box, still beat him out of a jump, or even trade with the j.light depending on the spacing. He might even air reset you, but it's kind of worth it, since it disrupts his timing and setup.

    Best option, as usual, is to simply avoind getting crossed up in the first time. Make good use of O.Honda's very excellent st.kicks to whiff punish, push him out of distance, and use Hands to dominate the space in front of you. Preferred anti-air is headbutt, so you may need to do hands backwards from time to time to maintain charge, but a well-timed late buttslam should work as well, although difficult to time properly.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    I was trying out o.honda for funs and accidentally got the throw freeze glitch.

    Does anybody know what causes it ?
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
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  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Wasn't aware O.Honda had a throw freeze glitch, Shari. Could you elaborate on the specifics of what happened?
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    edited November 2013
    I've done it before as well but couldn't figure out why it happened. It happens when two players go for a throw at the same time I think, but not sure beyond that.

    Edit: Found a couple of videos of it happening to me from a while ago:



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  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    edited November 2013
    Mine happened against Sim and just like the two you linked happened in the corner.

    Your 2 examples aswell as mine and the one that was in the other thread all happened when honda throws someone into the corner.

    Perhaps that has something to do with it ?

    Both of yours also happened when you throw someone that landed behind you but i can't clearly remember if that was the case when it happened to me.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
    MiloDC: I beat YuuVega -- yes, that YuuVega -- the first time I played Claw seriously in my entire life.
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