X-men: Dark Phoenix: (Nov. 2,2018)

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  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,484
    maxx wrote: »
    Quicksilver is once again made stupidly overpowered to the point where the confront against Apoc little sense.

    you mean hes the flash

    But Wally can cuz Wally. Also being a likeable character alongisde some pseudoscience BS to try to explain what happens helps. This movie, nor DoFP, had neither and didn't even bother in the slightest to try to have a coherent screenplay.

    Anyway...

    They made Fassneto suck ass in this movie. Other horsemen sucked as well, barely characters. Apoc is laughable, poor Oscar Isaac. Movie is straight up garbage.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • MOB712MOB712 Joined: Posts: 1,240
    edited May 2016
    I've seen a lot of ppl online talk about the film actually being good, how great the effects were or how good the story and acting is.

    I've come to the conclusion that those kind of people have accepted the fact that this series has been stuck in the early 2000s since inception and they revert to that time period to judge these movie instead of dealing with the fact of how far CBM have actually come in a decade.

    Not only are these movies suppose to be connected to the old trilogy, but they feel like they were made back then as well
    Post edited by MOB712 on
  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,890
    The movie is entertaining, but mostly forgettable.

    Here's some annotations about the Fox film series:
    • Their characters are supposed to be less heroic and more grounded, they're nowhere as the Avengers in "levels of heroism", they're mostly regular guys and teenagers without any semblance of backstories that are "damned" with powers and sometimes incur in heroics, not really full-time superheroes. Their stories and personalities are not inspiring.
    • Fox's producers never work with attention on detail like Marvel does. With Marvel, you have writers, producers, directors and even actors contributing to make the stories better and set things up for the future. And there's a boss overseeing everything. They completely nail what the characters are supposed to represent, their motivations and personalities. That's why they do DEFINITIVE cinematic portrayal of the characters. With Fox, the characters are mostly a blank slate; that's why they manage to transform Mystique so much between one and another movies.
    • Marvel has a plan. That's why they can announce 8 films to come in the following three years or so. With Fox they pretty much do the things on the run depending on which movies are succesful and which are not. After DoFP's, Apocalypse was hurrily announced and they had roughly one year to complete the writing, casting, production and everything else. That's why the movie is so irregular, the script and production could have been much better if they did everything on time. And well, continuity... The Wolverine's ending is somewhat contradicted by First Class, and First Class's ending is contradicted with this movie. It's hard to take this "foreseeings" seriously.

    I love the X-Men series for what it is, and there are great things on it (Days of Future past is the best comic book movie ever), even when some others could have been better. And this movie is definitely not bad... but it's forgettable. Hope the next entry is a tighter movie.

    No, that's what I'm saying. I expect the next movie to be better. Not to be like in the comics. I'm a big comic book fan but I can accept the movies having their own take. Now if you say the movies are bad because Xavier doesn't lose his legs because of an alien demon threw a stone at him, gtfo lol.
  • Hero_PandaHero_Panda Joined: Posts: 459
    It's kind of funny. Growing up I found the X-Men comics to be cool and edgy, while the Avengers comics were very lame in comparison and pretty boring.
    With the movies, it's completely the opposite.

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  • AlphaCharlieAlphaCharlie Joined: Posts: 1,052
    No Spoilers but, Quicksilver is badass!! That is way too much unchecked power & ability from one person.

    Seriously....a mind-controlled or evil Quicksilver not holding back whatsoever? He kills 95% of the X-Men AND the Avengers EASILY. Thor, wolverine, etc, only characters with high-level healing or durability could survive.

    Everyone else? F'in DEAD.

    Even your strong telepath characters like Professor X. Before they even realize what has happened and could attempt to lock-on and mind-control him, he would have already killed 80% of the mansion and possibly planted a bomb or something, and then raced out. Quicksilver's sheer reaction time and, that he CAN THINK and plan his moves every bit as fast, is just BROKEN.

    Just thinking of the possibility makes me take notice of other characters who are supposed to be even faster, like the Flash.

  • JaxxxJaxxx Joined: Posts: 917
    Why does Fox/Marvel stick B. Singer with the X-Men. I really would like to see someone else take on the mutants.
    also i'm a huge comic Storm fan, did she get a decent portrayal in this film?
  • AzureAzure E-Sports is fucking retarded. Joined: Posts: 9,048
    edited May 2016
    The Damned wrote: »
    (Yeah, The Flash is busted. I don't think anyone who knows anything about him would disagree on this except for maybe Batman or Superman (or Green Lantern?) groupies.)

    Even baseline Quicksilver would likely be problematic plot-wise depending on what the problem in the plot is, but The Flash even at his just "runs very fast and doesn't have any other completely broken powers" higher speed limit is already 100 times worse even before you bring the Speed Force bullshit into the equation. It's why if I ever do superhero stuff, then speedsters either fault aren't existing or have some type of (serve) drawback that's actually a drawback.

    The only series I can think of that handled people with super-speed well was/is Worm, where the one character who has super-speed is hindered by having his mass become inversely proportional to his speed, so he basically comes off as an annoying if strong and persistent gust of wind the faster he goes. This as opposed to other characters with super-speed who should be able to murder like half a dozen people in the blink an eye like how Faora-Ul did in Man of Steel and generally be unstoppable by most people in general, super-powered or not, if they're competent; gods, Faora-Ul was the one of the few good things about that terrible movie.

    I'm pretty sure that anyone who even casually follows comics has to cede that The Flash is pretty much the most O.P. Earthling if not the mostvO.P. dude in the entire universe.

    Being able to pass through solid objects was bad enough.

    Be8ng able to pull off the ending of Superman 1, without even leaving the atmosphere is all sorts of lololololol.

    Really pretty much the only thing keeping Barry from reaching godhood, is Barry.

    Dude is too down to Earth, centered, and sane for that.


    How Quicksliver doesn't get more respect in the comic books, is beyond me.

    His dad is Mags.

    And his sister - his twin sister - is all sorts of Omega Levels of broken.

    Scarlet Witch is probably some other tier above and beyond Omega, actually.

    Marvel needs to flesh him and his powers out more.

    As it stands, he's pretty much the Morph* of his immediate gene pool.





    *Am fully aware of his being a non-character. That's the joke. (child me nerd raged hard at his being created for the show, far worse even than Wolvie's anemic healing).
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  • AlphaCharlieAlphaCharlie Joined: Posts: 1,052
    edited May 2016
    Jaxxx wrote: »
    Why does Fox/Marvel stick B. Singer with the X-Men. I really would like to see someone else take on the mutants.
    also i'm a huge comic Storm fan, did she get a decent portrayal in this film?


    Singer has done well. Out of all the X-Men movies, the ones he has directed have been the best.

    Edit: With the notable exception of Deadpool. If you'd count that as an X-men movie anyway.
  • NAPNAP Joined: Posts: 1,812
    Azure wrote: »
    His dad is Mags.

    Not anymore. Or did they already retcon that again?

    Have you read Peter David's X-Factor run? I didn't read all of it but I liked how he wrote Quicksilver.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,484
    Jaxxx wrote: »
    Why does Fox/Marvel stick B. Singer with the X-Men. I really would like to see someone else take on the mutants.
    also i'm a huge comic Storm fan, did she get a decent portrayal in this film?


    Singer has done well. Out of all the X-Men movies, the ones he has directed have been the best.

    Edit: With the notable exception of Deadpool. If you'd count that as an X-men movie anyway.

    Best one is First Class. Singer's shit is still stuck in the early 2000s even though over a decade has passed.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,830
    I do agree the best might well be First Class. I AM kind of partial to Days of Future Past too though (even if when it comes to X-Men films as a whole, X2 has a lot of good memories), and The Wolverine was better than I thought it'd be.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,220
    Funny that... The best X-Men movie is the one with no Singer.

    Huh, how about that?
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  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,220
    Was talking about First Class, since I always forget Last Stand was directed by Brett Ratner and just chuck it under the "Singer's garbage file".
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  • PaolochunPaolochun so that I / can say I'm on your side Joined: Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jaxxx wrote: »
    Why does Fox/Marvel stick B. Singer with the X-Men. I really would like to see someone else take on the mutants.
    also i'm a huge comic Storm fan, did she get a decent portrayal in this film?

    Nope.jpg

    Non-Magneto Horsemen are barely even characters.
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  • locoghoullocoghoul Fuck Chun Joined: Posts: 3,770
    X2 > any of the newer Xmen flicks.

    DoFP felt like a Roger Moore James Bond movie from the 80s. Like you get some action, some humor bits but you never really take it seriously. First Class was alright and got a free pass because there was a new cast and the Xavier/Eric relationship carried the movie. Other than that, movie is also sorta B movie type, not Green Lantern/Iron Man 2 levels but not great either. The last action sequence of First Class is pretty dope actually.

    X2 actually felt like a comic book movie where everything gets portrayed truthfully to the source material while keeping it realistic for a live action movie. Maybe the secret to all good "comic book" movies is to try to make a decent solid movie first (as in good plot, pace and lines) AND THEN focusing on the hero stuff. I feel like the major failures on this genre (FF4, BvS, GL, X3, etc) started trying to go beyond these factors. "Oh you know what would be sick? To have these two fight against each other at the end! Let's just make up dialogue for 80 mins so we can shoot that fighting scene" "Everyone loves Phoenix, let's just have it destroy stuff and have Wolverine kill her, we'll put boring ass scenes in between to set that up"



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  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,721 mod
    (It's rather sad that the 90s X-Men cartoon, for all of its flaws, is probably still the best representation of them around. At least we got X-23 out of X-Men Evolution though.)

    I'll agree that X2 is probably the best in overall aspects. I must admit, however, that I still honestly just like better Days of Future Past between it completely disavowing X3 and Wolverine: Origins simultaneously and also showing how broken someone with super speed & no actual drawback should be even though Quicksilver was apparently added last minute.

    Too bad X-Men: Apocalypse seems intent on killing all goodwill I had from that movie by making this a Jennifer Lawrence vehicle with a large side of tiresome "destruction porn" as filler.

    NAP wrote: »
    The Damned wrote: »
    (Yeah, The Flash is busted. I don't think anyone who knows anything about him would disagree on this except for maybe Batman or Superman (or Green Lantern?) groupies.)

    Even baseline Quicksilver would likely be problematic plot-wise depending on what the problem in the plot is, but The Flash even at his just "runs very fast and doesn't have any other completely broken powers" higher speed limit is already 100 times worse even before you bring the Speed Force bullshit into the equation. It's why if I ever do superhero stuff, then speedsters either fault aren't existing or have some type of (serve) drawback that's actually a drawback.

    The only series I can think of that handled people with super-speed well was/is Worm, where the one character who has super-speed is hindered by having his mass become inversely proportional to his speed, so he basically comes off as an annoying if strong and persistent gust of wind the faster he goes. This as opposed to other characters with super-speed who should be able to murder like half a dozen people in the blink an eye like how Faora-Ul did in Man of Steel and generally be unstoppable by most people in general, super-powered or not, if they're competent; gods, Faora-Ul was the one of the few good things about that terrible movie.

    Faora was probably the best representation of what super speed would look like to a normal human being. I actually liked that quite a bit. One of the few interesting things that movie did.

    Agreed. It also helps that her actress, Antje Traue, seemed skilled and acted appropriately for the scenes she was in rather than Cavill's generally flatter acting and Shannon's generally campier acting.

    It also doesn't hurt that she is very nice to look at...unless you're odin, who apparently has the "misfortune" of supposedly having a lot of cousins who look like her:

    (Gods this picture is huge)
    1015f1d9382583dacb451b0cdc1fc053.jpg

    Azure wrote: »
    The Damned wrote: »
    (Yeah, The Flash is busted. I don't think anyone who knows anything about him would disagree on this except for maybe Batman or Superman (or Green Lantern?) groupies.)

    Even baseline Quicksilver would likely be problematic plot-wise depending on what the problem in the plot is, but The Flash even at his just "runs very fast and doesn't have any other completely broken powers" higher speed limit is already 100 times worse even before you bring the Speed Force bullshit into the equation. It's why if I ever do superhero stuff, then speedsters either fault aren't existing or have some type of (serve) drawback that's actually a drawback.

    The only series I can think of that handled people with super-speed well was/is Worm, where the one character who has super-speed is hindered by having his mass become inversely proportional to his speed, so he basically comes off as an annoying if strong and persistent gust of wind the faster he goes. This as opposed to other characters with super-speed who should be able to murder like half a dozen people in the blink an eye like how Faora-Ul did in Man of Steel and generally be unstoppable by most people in general, super-powered or not, if they're competent; gods, Faora-Ul was the one of the few good things about that terrible movie.

    *snip*

    How Quicksliver doesn't get more respect in the comic books, is beyond me.

    His dad is Mags.

    And his sister - his twin sister - is all sorts of Omega Levels of broken.

    Scarlet Witch is probably some other tier above and beyond Omega, actually.

    Marvel needs to flesh him and his powers out more.

    As it stands, he's pretty much the Morph* of his immediate gene pool.





    *Am fully aware of his being a non-character. That's the joke. (child me nerd raged hard at his being created for the show, far worse even than Wolvie's anemic healing).

    I'm not sure whether you mean in-universe or out of universe, but in-universe, Pietro's own worst enemy when it comes to respect is really himself since he comes off as tremendous asshole a lot of the time. To be fair to the man, he's not nearly as evil as he should be most of the time between the fact that Mags was a hella abusive father figure to him during most of their interactions--especially in the Ultimate universe, dear gods--and the fact that he's basically living the Flash's worst fear daily. By the latter, I mean the fact that the drawback to his power is that everything else moves at slow speed to him, constantly. I honestly don't know how he's not outright insane, really, though I could say that about a lot of comic book characters, so whatever.

    For what it's worth, he was more powerful than Wanda for the longest while before Disassembled happened, which broke-up The Avengers in-comic and was part of what led to the shitty comic book version of Civil War (I). All Wanda used to have was far more unassuming "probability manipulation" over relatively minor aspects rather than out-and-out greater "reality manipulation"; most of her actual power came from training in actual magic, which is basically "reality manipulation" anyway given pretty much no comic book (and the majority of other fictional work) never fully explain (or even appear to think out) their systems of how magic actually work behind the scenes. So he's only been "weak" compared to her for about a decade or so. It's just that said decade was arguably been the most noticeable one for comics as a whole after Iron Man the movie kicked off the comic-book movie revolution. That and the fact that pretty much everyone looks like dog-shit compared to The Flash at his strongest levels.

    Given I don't read super-hero comic books anymore, though, I'm not even sure if Pietro is a) even alive in them still and b) currently still lacking his super-powers of super speed. Does anyone actually know? Or do I have to devil-summon @RockBogart into this thread with doomed hopes he'll tell us?
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
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  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,721 mod
    (Blasphemer! Sunder him limb from limb!)

    Seriously, though, is Quicksilver even alive in the comic-books? You'd actually think he'd be the safest mutant, technically, given that he's only one who had a children with an inhuman, but given how poorly that relationship ended....
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • MOB712MOB712 Joined: Posts: 1,240
    RockBogart wrote: »
    Wolverine and The X-Men>All other Xmen shows.

    I know people criticized it because it was Logan front and center once again but I'll be damned if that wasn't a good fucking show.

    Will always be pissed we never got that AoA second season.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,484
    Emma made that show far more enjoyable than it should've been.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • AlphaCharlieAlphaCharlie Joined: Posts: 1,052
    edited May 2016
    Whoa! What's with all the Singer hate in this thread?
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,368 mod
    Azure wrote: »
    How Quicksliver doesn't get more respect in the comic books, is beyond me.

    His dad is Mags.
    That was retconned away and he's no longer biologically Magnus' son (and neither is Wanda, his only living biological child is Polaris).
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  • jimmy1200jimmy1200 Joined: Posts: 8,872
    Whoa! What's with all the Singer hate in this thread?

    i5upht.jpg
    LEMME GET DAT!
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,484
    Singer hates Cyclops, he will never really be portrayed properly in one of his movies.

    Besides, Emma Frost is fucked, their relationship made Cyke much more interesting as a character and that's impossible to do now.

    I don't see what they can do with the character anymore other then beating the dead horse of Jean/Scott relationship and maybe some stuff with Corsair. Cable would be extremely awkward since Scott is still a teen and will be a very young adult at best by the next movie.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • maxxmaxx DIO THE DESTROYER Joined: Posts: 36,277 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Singer hates Cyclops, he will never really be portrayed properly in one of his movies.

    Besides, Emma Frost is fucked, their relationship made Cyke much more interesting as a character and that's impossible to do now.

    I don't see what they can do with the character anymore other then beating the dead horse of Jean/Scott relationship and maybe some stuff with Corsair. Cable would be extremely awkward since Scott is still a teen and will be a very young adult at best by the next movie.

    their relationship was only interesting because scott became stale and played out. he hasnt even been given that chance in the movies yet. he was barely the leader before a massive retcon and he wasnt close to the boyscout yet.
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  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,830
    Lantis wrote: »
    So, uh....I don't get it. At the end of DOFP, Mystique (posing as Stryker) rescues Wolverine from the river....only to have Wolvie end up being captured/experimented by the real Stryker anyway. Like WTF SINGER?

    Still waiting on that breakthrough Cyclops performance which will sadly never happen.

    Well yeah...I mean, most people I've talked to/heard talk about DOFP seem to think that bit would've been a lot better if it was actually Striker there instead of Jennifer La-Mystique pretending to be him, lol.
  • RockBogartRockBogart Donkologist, Ph.D Joined: Posts: 37,373 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    maxx wrote: »
    RockBogart wrote: »
    Wolverine and The X-Men>All other Xmen shows.

    lol aignt no one tryin to see emo hobo cyclops.

    And yet he's still better than 90's and Evo Cyclops

    ea183e12-0e78-11e3-a590-005056b70bb8.jpg
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,484
    maxx wrote: »
    Singer hates Cyclops, he will never really be portrayed properly in one of his movies.

    Besides, Emma Frost is fucked, their relationship made Cyke much more interesting as a character and that's impossible to do now.

    I don't see what they can do with the character anymore other then beating the dead horse of Jean/Scott relationship and maybe some stuff with Corsair. Cable would be extremely awkward since Scott is still a teen and will be a very young adult at best by the next movie.

    their relationship was only interesting because scott became stale and played out. he hasnt even been given that chance in the movies yet. he was barely the leader before a massive retcon and he wasnt close to the boyscout yet.

    Emma being a bitch also helped. She is very enjoyable to read just as a stand alone character, but her bickering with the rest of the X-Men was gold.

    And then Bendis came...
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • The DamnedThe Damned Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken? Joined: Posts: 10,721 mod
    edited May 2016
    (I genuinely chuckled at Emma's description of T'Challa's mind.)

    I'm not sure where you guys have been, but Cyclops has always gotten fucked over, non-stop, ever since Wolverine appeared and started getting popular. So as much as Singer is to blame for most of the bad or otherwise mediocre aspects in most of the X-Men movies, he's not to blame for that; if anything, beyond making Scott the younger brother of Alex instead vice versa and thinking Scott's power is a laser beam like everyone else instead of a kinetic force beam, he's actually being accurate there unfortunately. Scott literally just can't win as far as Marvel caring about him is concerned, to the point that it's pretty telling that he basically only stopped getting shit on (as hard) after he basically snapped and (finally) became "evil" so that Wolverine could be presented in an even better light than he already was for being a hairy, midget homewrecker.

    Hell, Scott's relationship with Emma is arguably character derailment for both of them, especially since it was forced on them by the Phoenix from 150 years in the future towards the end of Morrison's run right after Jean died because yet another bad future supposedly would have happened otherwise. [/try taking that true line seriously]

    It doesn't exactly help that there are basically no non-evil therapists in Marvel's universe (beyond Doc Samson?) given that Emma (and probably Scott too) basically is only such a bitch because she a) has untreated survivor's guilt from multiple things, including being present during the whole Genosha genocide thing, and b) expects everyone to hate her anyway, especially given how she was with the Hellfire Club when she met a good majority of the senior X-Men and given how even the closest things she can have to daughters, the Stepford Cuckoos, somewhat hate her too. I mean, it's not like she'd magically become a good person or anything even if her issues were worked out, but from what I remember, during Generation X, she was more or less a decent enough person and teacher compared to how she's basically been reduced to "oh, naughty psychic sexpot in impossible white outfits full of BDSM implications. How empowering!" now.

    Meh. Again, this is part of why I stopped bothering with the Big Two's comic-books: way too much bullshit.

    Whoa! What's with all the Singer hate in this thread?

    The Singer hate in this thread isn't anything new. He's never been much liked around here, though he's not as loathed as some other directors rightfully are like Snyder or Boll.
    Post edited by The Damned on
    "Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."
    - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

    "Freddie experienced the sort of abysmal soul-sadness which afflicts one of Tolstoy's Russian peasants when, after putting in a heavy day's work strangling his father, beating his wife, and dropping the baby into the city's reservoir, he turns to the cupboards, only to find the vodka bottle empty."
    - P. G. Wodehouse
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,830
    Well yeah, I mean he's certainly not Uwe Boll. Or Michael Bay at that, where pretty much the only good thing he's ever been involved in is Black Sails.
  • AriesWarlockAriesWarlock Joined: Posts: 3,407
    Yeah, Cyclops went celibate. Jean needed to get some of that D, so

    3289736-2412295-229px_jean_grey_james_howlett_x_men_vol_2_117_p11_f1.jpg


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