Shattered - New Fighting Game in Development

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  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    I am not sure what you're saying. This post seems to imply that the animations use like 'paperdoll' animations, kinda like Rumble Fish? If that's what you mean, I'm not sure what gave you that impression, because that's certainly not what we're doing. Youtube sadly eats 50% of the animation frames in our game, because it doesn't support 60fps, this makes the animations look a lot choppier than they are in game, maybe that is give you that impression.

    Incidentally, I'm open to suggestions on how to make Youtube animations look smoother. It'd probably look a little better if you'd somehow blend two frames together into one. On the other hand, it'd loose some of the graphical fidelity that the sprite animations give you. There's no 60fps video service around anymore is there?

    Talking about how much of the sprite stays the same and doesn't hide it. I'm sure you know majority of the sprites in old games reuse chunks yet they look different. It's cause that the position of said chunks aren't in the same place. Best example I can think of right now is Jedah's standing in Vsav. Even though most of majority of the sprite is the same the y movement of the sprite makes it look like there is more going on with the animation. Just having it stop suddenly for a lot of frames makes it look stiffer than it should be.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    Yes I agree, pixel art is hard. Also, a Standing and crouching animation will go a long way.

    Off topic example of pixel art is hard.
    When I do scripts to games I'm stuck with resolution of the system. So making a small input display so it doesn't take up a huge strip of the screen with out scaling is quite hard.
    sjDjKsd.png
    Since it's CPS2 I'm working with 224p. So those buttons on the side had to be 8x8 and I have to deal with Pixels aren't square on cps2 as well. You don't want to know how many times it took to draw that foot.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    :rollseyes:
    STOMP!
  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Standing and crouching animation is not really all that important at the moment. She can stand and crouch. Right now, that's enough.
    Roald Dhalsim
  • COALCOAL Joined: Posts: 93
    edited December 2013
    I think what he is saying is that the move looks more static because they are shown out of unmoving idle animations.
    Shattered dev: Blog - SRK Discussion
  • Leebee LinkLeebee Link (they/them) Joined: Posts: 2,318
    sooo the soundtrack's gonna be The Stones, right?
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,333
    sooo the soundtrack's gonna be The Stones, right?

    Man I hope not.
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    We updated the blog with a new post on the Look & Feel of the game!

    Check it out on: http://blog.team18k.com/characters/look-feel/
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    deadfrog wrote: »
    ...Stuff about style...

    The attack animations generally feel like they carry a lot of weight behind them. Really going out on a limb: I probably have a bias here (ST!!!) but... are you guys currently thinking you'll use longer-than-average hitstop?

    First of all, it's even better that you were working on that post before our post, that way we have "confirmation" so to speak, that we're communicating it well.

    As for the hitstop/freeze: Hitstop will be variable per attack strength (unlike ST and KOF98). Hitstop is currently subject to change. It used to range from 7 frames to 15 frames, and it currently ranges from 8 frames to 12 frames. So I guess that qualifies as 'shorter-than-avarage' to a ST-biased player ;-)

    Especially some of the higher strength of attacks (like her tatsu) looked kind of funny with very high hitstop (it used to be 13 frames, now it's 11). But it's something we'll experiment with, and see how we and testers feel about it.
  • ascensionXascensionX Joined: Posts: 404
    What you have show looks good.
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  • Bob SagatBob Sagat Akuma Thurman Joined: Posts: 1,547
    Thanks deadfrog, that's exactly what they asked me to do. :)
    Thank you ascensionX.

    (No more like button all of a sudden?)
    Roald Dhalsim
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    As for the hitstop/freeze
    That's awesome, I actually really like that you're trying it out to see what feels right for your game. (And for what it's worth, I love the feel of Melty too, and that game has like the shortest hitstop ever.)
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    deadfrog wrote: »
    ...Stuff about style...

    The attack animations generally feel like they carry a lot of weight behind them. Really going out on a limb: I probably have a bias here (ST!!!) but... are you guys currently thinking you'll use longer-than-average hitstop?

    First of all, it's even better that you were working on that post before our post, that way we have "confirmation" so to speak, that we're communicating it well.

    As for the hitstop/freeze: Hitstop will be variable per attack strength (unlike ST and KOF98). Hitstop is currently subject to change. It used to range from 7 frames to 15 frames, and it currently ranges from 8 frames to 12 frames. So I guess that qualifies as 'shorter-than-avarage' to a ST-biased player ;-)

    Especially some of the higher strength of attacks (like her tatsu) looked kind of funny with very high hitstop (it used to be 13 frames, now it's 11). But it's something we'll experiment with, and see how we and testers feel about it.

    Are you planning on some frame skip to be in the game like the Capcom games? 12 can become 7 really easily with it.

    Hit stop being global value was more a hardware limitation than a design choice. Marvel 2 had where it could be different per attack.

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

    [8/6/2014 8:19:53 PM] Pasky: jedpossum, hacker of the obscure fighting games

  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    jedpossum wrote: »
    Are you planning on some frame skip to be in the game like the Capcom games? 12 can become 7 really easily with it.

    Nope, we're not doing any frame skip, every frame processed will be drawn on the screen, so that's nothing to worry about at least.

  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    edited January 2014
    Hey everybody, it's been a while since we updated, due to the holidays getting in the way. But that certainly doesn't mean we've been sitting on our asses.

    We've decided to finally show off the game system, which has now be added as a page to our website: http://blog.team18k.com/system/

    Note that quite a few of the systems are still subject to change, and we will be iterating designs and decisions as when we get feedback from upcoming playtests experimenting with these different systems.

    We've also been making some great progress on the engine and some of the animations, which we'll be showing off soon.
  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    I don't like the idea of the "Shatter" gauge filling on hit. It sounds like a guard gauge, which a lot of games have, but you shouldn't make it harder for someone to defend after they eat a big combo. Just my two cents.
    (P4AU) Marie :::: (UNIEL) Vatista :::: (BB) Izayoi/Rachel :::: (USF4) Juri
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    It's basically a stun gauge.
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    edited January 2014
    Celerity wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of the "Shatter" gauge filling on hit. It sounds like a guard gauge, which a lot of games have, but you shouldn't make it harder for someone to defend after they eat a big combo. Just my two cents.

    On block, I think you mean. I understand your concern, and yes it combines both a stun gauge and a guard crush gauge into one system, which definitely favors the person on offense more than the defender. But, it technically isn't more punishing than having both stun and guard as separate systems within a game, as long as the amount of damage it does is balanced well.

    Consider a scenario in a game that has both stun and guard crush (like KOF98 or KOFXIII for example). You eat a big combo, so your stun is up. The high damage combo probably ended in a knockdown, so the opponent gets to continue pressure, which means you take Guard crush damage. Most games that have stun values won't let your stun go down when you're blocking either. So while your blocking both your stun bar isn't emptying, and your guard gauge is going down. Stopping to block gives a chance of stun, continuing to block gives a chance of guard crush. That is technically the same outcome as when you merge the two resources into one as we have.

    Just because we've merged these two resources into one, doesn't necessarily mean that it makes it easier to stun and/or guard crush an opponent, that's all about balancing the Shatter damage values.

    But yes, the Shatter system does favor the attacker, and therefore we are considering the option of giving the opponent an Alpha Counter/Guard Cancel whatever you want to call it.

    [Edit] But it's of course perfectly acceptable to not really like Guard Crush mechanics in general. I think they can be pretty exciting when they're a specific strategy you can apply (Like Kusanagi in KOF2002, can specifically aim to get a guard crush in his playstyle), rather than the main tool to set up offense (As I kind of feel is the case in MOTW, especially for some characters).
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    We've decided that the Shatter System description was perhaps a little too short. So we've expanded that section a little.
  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    Celerity wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of the "Shatter" gauge filling on hit. It sounds like a guard gauge, which a lot of games have, but you shouldn't make it harder for someone to defend after they eat a big combo. Just my two cents.

    On block, I think you mean. I understand your concern, and yes it combines both a stun gauge and a guard crush gauge into one system, which definitely favors the person on offense more than the defender. But, it technically isn't more punishing than having both stun and guard as separate systems within a game, as long as the amount of damage it does is balanced well.

    I meant on hit, but the new information you added to that section makes it more clear. I was concerned that you could fill up an opponent's gauge during a combo, and then reset them into another big combo from the guard crush. I didn't realize that it just placed them into a knockdown state.
    (P4AU) Marie :::: (UNIEL) Vatista :::: (BB) Izayoi/Rachel :::: (USF4) Juri
  • Diek StiekemDiek Stiekem Team triple terror for MvCi Joined: Posts: 2,613 mod
    Not to nitpick but, it may be more logical to map throws to lp+lk and shatters to hp+hk.
    If you guys ever end up with an update using EX moves or supers mapped to a i.e. qcf p+p

    Most fighting games map fighting mechanics these way, so it'll be easier to pick for new players
    (Not to mention it's more friendly for pad players like me ;p )

    Just something to think about ;)
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    Just something to think about ;)

    Sure, that's a fair point. We'll think about it.
  • DangerOnTheRangerDangerOnTheRanger based TvC god Joined: Posts: 298
    So the Shatter system is basically a guard crush that allows you one followup attack, correct? I like the sound of it, though as was stated earlier, it could favor the attacker/rushdown characters too much, so an alpha counter mechanic also sounds like a good idea to me.

    I assume a Shatter attack will be like SFEX guard crushes/level 3 focus attacks in that it is impossible to block them at all, right? As opposed to BBCP's Crush Trigger system, anyway.
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    edited January 2014
    So the Shatter system is basically a guard crush that allows you one followup attack, correct?
    Indeed! Either a single follow up attack or a Shatter super.
    I assume a Shatter attack will be like SFEX guard crushes/level 3 focus attacks in that it is impossible to block them at all, right? As opposed to BBCP's Crush Trigger system, anyway.

    No, they will be blockable, but they'll be a lot quicker than either of those two. In terms of speeds you should think more in the direction of KOF CD attacks (between 16 and 23 frames startup), which is fairly slow for a normal attack but not almost a second startup SLOW like a level 3 focus attack.

  • DangerOnTheRangerDangerOnTheRanger based TvC god Joined: Posts: 298
    Interesting.

    Do Shatter attacks require any resources (meter, etc.) to perform? I didn't see that they did anywhere on your site, but I thought I'd check.
    I am the salt of the earth.
    Rage is my body and salt is my blood.
    I have created over a thousand excuses.
    Unknown to winning, nor known to humility,
    Have withstood bans to write many forum rants.
    Yet, those hands will never hold that L.

    So as I play,
    UNLIMITED SALT WORKS
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    No they don't. It's probably best to think of them as a special kind of 5th normal.
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,546
    wow, the system mechanics seem very innovative, while being simple enough

    good luck with the game
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  • Mad MistressMad Mistress Seimei wannabe Joined: Posts: 690
    Looking good.

    +1 for switching the button combinations though. You liken the Shatter attack to a CD attack, so it should really be both hard attacks and both light attacks as throw is fairly standard for games with 2x2 or 2x3 layouts. One other thing, very minor but on the system page, the diagonal back arrow for hop isn't showing up.

    Looking forward to more info :)
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    Strange, the up-back input is showing for me. Either way, we'll replace those inputs with icons in the near future, after which it should be fixed!
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 22,073
    Games lookin and soundin cool. I wish you guys luck.
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    edited January 2014
    The videos that we've been showing off so far have all been recordings within the engine, but none have really showed off ' gameplay'. So this time, we're showing off some combo's with our, now functioning, health bars in place!



    http://blog.team18k.com/uncategorized/combo-showcase/

    If anyone wonders what the 'greyed out' part of the screen is. That is basically the 'off-screen' area. We have not yet implemented a camera that actually follows the action.
    Post edited by phoenixnl on
  • truendymiontruendymion Beer Me! Joined: Posts: 2,265
    The video is really choppy for me but from I can see it looks pretty good. I don't want to jump the gun cuz the game is so early but it looks like nothing too crazy or over-the-top...
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  • COALCOAL Joined: Posts: 93
    She is indeed nothing too crazy. You're still missing out on her supers, her shatter attack and her command normal, but even with those she will be a basic character.

    Some future characters will have some more 'exotic' systems/movesets or more extreme looks/effects, but also have to adhere to some principles laid out by Phoenix and me, so everything will be within reason.
    Shattered dev: Blog - SRK Discussion
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    That video was verrry confusing at first, with the abrupt cuts between clips! And especially with the static background and Julia not having an idle animation yet. I had to watch it a few times to adjust to what was going on. Hahah.

    All of the animations so far look absolutely fantastic!

    I did notice that the attacker's sprite was being drawn behind the defender's sprite. Without any hitsparks or sound, I found it was actually kind of tough to spot the tiny, quick cr.lp's.

    I guess that you're planning on changing it so that the (latest) attack always shows up in front? Off the top of my head, I thiiink this is what other 2D fighters typically do.
  • COALCOAL Joined: Posts: 93
    edited January 2014
    deadfrog wrote: »
    I did notice that the attacker's sprite was being drawn behind the defender's sprite. Without any hitsparks or sound, I found it was actually kind of tough to spot the tiny, quick cr.lp's.

    I guess that you're planning on changing it so that the (latest) attack always shows up in front? Off the top of my head, I thiiink this is what other 2D fighters typically do.

    I honestly wasn't really aware of that yet, but I'm pretty sure Phoenix was (thats how he rollsss), so its probably on the list of things to fix. But yeah, your point makes sense.
    deadfrog wrote: »
    All of the animations so far look absolutely fantastic!

    Bob Sagat will arrive shortly to claim the compliments! Joking aside, I fully agree with you!
    Post edited by COAL on
    Shattered dev: Blog - SRK Discussion
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 643
    Yup, it's on the todo list of things to do once we start making hits more visually appealing with hitflashes, and 'vibration' of the opponent during hitstop, etc.
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    Yup, it's on the todo list of things to do once we start making hits more visually appealing with hitflashes, and 'vibration' of the opponent during hitstop, etc.
    It's... it's like you know all the things!!!!
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 827
    edited January 2014
    Reading the word "shatter" so many times in such a short space of time is making it sound hilarious...
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