New ST?

puppup Joined: Posts: 118
Would it be possible to do a community created remake of ST like they have done project M for super smash bros brawl??
I kno that's what HDR was for. It did some things right but it also had its issues.
With kickstarter available we can fund it within our community. We can vote changes into the game
3v3 like KOF?
Throw techs?
Lower damage on supers?
No random damage or dizziness?
Just a thought of reviving the game. Maybe it's just me but I'm starting to feel like the game is dying more than before. Is there any hope of this happening or am I just delusional to what I want ST to be?
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Comments

  • MancubMancub Joined: Posts: 632
    edited December 2013
    Wasn't the entire appeal to most people the fact that it was strictly fundamentals? Project M was fixing problems that Brawl created (tripping, slower pace, removal of core competitive mechanics) whereas this would just be.. well, random additions to an old game.

    The veterans won't want it and it isn't going to attract new players, pro or otherwise. I don't really see the point, honestly.
  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    fakeakagi wrote: »
    specs wrote: »
    HDR did a lot of things right, and the things it did wrong are mostly the fault of Udon and Capcom.

    And HDR was seen as the fighting game version of Hitler.

    So don't hold your breath for a new ST. Didn't you hear? Current ST is "perfect."
    Fuck off Sirlin cocksucker.

    Classy.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    edited December 2013
    What Specs said. HDR didn't caught (for reasons I still don't understand entirely), so the chance that a fan made mod will enjoy success is very slim. ST is a very old game, people got used to it, those who like it like it the way it is, those who don't moved on.
    I personally enjoy ST a lot, but I would have liked HDR to be adopted by the whole community.


  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    pup wrote: »
    Would it be possible to do a community created remake of ST like they have done project M for super smash bros brawl??
    I kno that's what HDR was for. It did some things right but it also had its issues.
    With kickstarter available we can fund it within our community. We can vote changes into the game
    3v3 like KOF?
    Throw techs?
    Lower damage on supers?
    No random damage or dizziness?
    Just a thought of reviving the game. Maybe it's just me but I'm starting to feel like the game is dying more than before. Is there any hope of this happening or am I just delusional to what I want ST to be?

    It's always a slow period for ST after EVO until the end of the year. Hardly any majors going on. Things will probably pick up soon as the tournament season starts for 2014.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    You know, ST is a very old game, its not like any of us will be adopting another version after so much time unless that new version is perfectly thought out. HDR did some stuff right(e.g. Ken, Blanka, M.Bison(IMO)... ) but also did some wrong (e.g T.Hawk, top tiers are still top tiers, Honda still owns Gief/Cammy...). It also needs an arcade release (or at least a PC release, a console only release is destined to fail).
    Anyway, I think that ST deserves another iteration, but it must not be done by one sole person. If the japs did it, I'm sure that it would be so good that it would be the new standard. We can always hack the rom ourselves and do what we want though (plenty of information on this subject here on these forums).
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    HDR is the best fighting game ever made and accomplished everything it set out to do which included top tiers still being top tiers.
    And T-Hawk still has option select just a more interesting form of it.

    It was still not considered good enough to replace ST by the old players.

    If the japs made a new ST it would play like SF4 and SFxT.
    Because that's the kind of games japanese SF devs are making now.
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  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited December 2013
    Oh, when I said the Japs I was not referring to the actual devs from capcom, but the community. Imagine if the top players themselves (who know this game better than anyone here or anyone else on the planet) decided which changes the game really needed to be perfect balanced and still be fun. That would be awesome.
    Anyway, sorry for my ignorance, can you tell me more about HDR Hawk's Option selects ?
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • ShariShari Overestimated. Joined: Posts: 2,626
    edited December 2013
    He loses the normal typhoon os but can still do it with his super with the new motion.
    So he has a no-whiff walkup super without buffering.

    He can also gain meter more safely than ST hawk as his throw whiff builds meter but i don't think anyone really put that to the test in tournaments as the game died pretty quickly.

    There were japanese players whose opinions were asked for the rebalancing.

    "Before implementing this, I also talked to Nekohashi, one of the best Ryu players in Japan. I asked him for his list of Ryu changes for a new version of Street Fighter and his response was something close to “No changes needed, Ryu’s design is already perfect.” I said ok, but how about this idea of adding just one thing: a fake fireball? Nekohashi said, “Yes! That is a masterpiece. Give him that move and nothing else.” I think Nekohashi probably had similar reasoning to mine above, because I had already explained to him a few ways that various weaker characters would have to avoid fireballs. So with Nekohashi’s blessing, I added the fake fireball to the game very early in development."

    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-ryu.html

    "When I explained the debate to former Evolution champion Tokido, from Japan, he responded, “I understand the balance idea here, but I think if you remove stored super…Japanese players will not like. I think you should leave it, but reduce damage, as you did.” Thanks Tokido!"

    http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-chun-li.html

    Edit:

    Other than that i believe the japanese response to the game was pretty good.
    The players that played it in tournaments stateside and europe seemed to like it and i remember Aniken being a strong proponent of it organising tournaments and teaching japanese players how to buy it.
    I think there was a stream of him and other japanese top players playing it uploaded to youtube somewhere.

    found it:
    7 parts in total.
    Haunts: Is it lag or just impeccable footsies and spacing, I don't know.
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  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Daigo said HDR was a worthy successor.

    Nobody tell the ST diehards on this forum though...
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  • Missing PersonMissing Person Quickly becoming the Sailor Moon S guy. Joined: Posts: 13,874
    I like it. They are two entirely different games though.
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  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,711
    I think another version of SF2 in general would be awesome, especially if it was also on arcade. I don't think this community will support it though, sadly.
  • milesokeefemilesokeefe Spammy Joined: Posts: 387
    I like damage and dizzies. I like that you can merc people in 8 seconds.

    I like that you don't have to grind meter in order to gain access to moves that don't suck.

  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    I like it. They are two entirely different games though.

    This is something I don't understand. Why are ST and HDR so different ? As far as I know, no new game mechanic was added, no new characters...only some inputs were made more lenient, and some rebalance. I'm not sure if this enough to call them 2 completely different games. For me, HDR is ST with slightly better balance.



  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Anyone have a link to the changes from ST to HDR?
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    I have no qualms with HDR. HDR didn't fail because it wasn't a good remake of ST, just like any current remake will fail regardless of whether or not it's good.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    shano wrote: »
    Anyone have a link to the changes from ST to HDR?

    Here it is: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/sf-hd-remix-complete-change-list.html




  • shanoshano Joined: Posts: 284
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    shano wrote: »
    Anyone have a link to the changes from ST to HDR?

    Here it is: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/sf-hd-remix-complete-change-list.html


    Thanks a lot for the fast reply Emanuel.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    edited December 2013
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    This is something I don't understand. Why are ST and HDR so different ? As far as I know, no new game mechanic was added, no new characters...
    Added Akuma (bad), removed all SSF2 versions of the characters (very bad). We can also say N.Fei Long was removed, since it's a completely different character. So no new Fei and old Ken, Ryu, Honda, Chun, Fei, Guile, Hawk and Sagat, for instance. I'd say the only good removal was O.Sagat.
    hanasu wrote: »
    I have no qualms with HDR. HDR didn't fail because it wasn't a good remake of ST, just like any current remake will fail regardless of whether or not it's good.
    HDR failed because it took too long to be released and SF4 ended up smashing it due to marketing. We all know that. It was supposed to be released a year earlier, which means it should have been the EVO headliner. That alone would certainly bring more attention and players to SF2. Due to the delay, the opposite happened.
  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,711
    Don't see how removing super versions of the characters is really that bad, I'd rather have one complete character with the balancing focused mainly on him/her and not two different versions. I love what they did with HDR Ken btw.

    Say if we did make another version of ST though, I'd love the hitstun on certain jump attacks to be a bit longer if that was possible. Just think it's silly how your opponent can grab you after you've landed a successful hit.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    edited December 2013
    A new ST can be successful, as long as nothing is changed.

    Just add new attacks and new characters.

    The only thing that should be changed is N.Ken's Crazy motions.

    Give it an international release on PC plus GGPO netcode, and that's it (plus a rebalance patch for the new chars like a year later, and then ST will be truly eternal).
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,200
    edited December 2013
    HDR failed because it took too long to be released and SF4 ended up smashing it due to marketing. We all know that. It was supposed to be released a year earlier, which means it should have been the EVO headliner. That alone would certainly bring more attention and players to SF2. Due to the delay, the opposite happened.

    Eh, you can't say HDR failed from a financial standpoint. If I remember correctly it broke XBL sales records. HDR didn't catch on for two reasons:

    1. Took WAY too long to develop/lacked resources and support from Capcom/released a month before SF4 dropped.

    2. ST diehards nearly immediately formed a fissure within the SF2 community essentially saying it was sacrilege to mess with ST (funny how no one cared when it was being developed) causing a split of player base between HDR and ST.
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  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    edited December 2013
    I have my complaints about ST and there's plenty of BS that id like to see nerfed ... But at this point, I think it best to leave well enough alone. ST is fine the way it is.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    new st to be success, dont add new tech or attacks to original 16, but add at least 4 new chars

    so, 20 chars= 20 yrs celebration
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  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    2. ST diehards nearly immediately formed a fissure within the SF2 community essentially saying it was sacrilege to mess with ST (funny how no one cared when it was being developed) causing a split of player base between HDR and ST.

    I'm pretty sure this was just overblown speculation by the online forum community more than anything else. Simply based on tourney entrants and results, it seems like a vast majority of "ST diehards" did in fact play HDR in its heyday.

    HDR died as a result from SF4 hopping on the scene, which drew away a LOT of fairweather players that were really only into HDR for the competition and fresh appeal, and the remnants of the HDR scene seemingly not keeping organized and maintaining its competitive lifespan.
  • DANZANDANZAN NO SQUIGGERINO Joined: Posts: 6,575
    why hdr died :

    1. snakeyez won evo with gief.........
    No i am not joking.
    2. sf4 (as eltrouble explained)
    3. the hdr-refusal among
    the core ST peoples

    btw good going calling specs a cocksucker for speaking the truth.
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  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,200

    eltrouble wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure this was just overblown speculation by the online forum community more than anything else. Simply based on tourney entrants and results, it seems like a vast majority of "ST diehards" did in fact play HDR in its heyday.

    Heh. Remember this thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/62067/r-i-p-st ? Between that and that VirtuaFighterFour douche it made it hard for HDR, a perfectly competent and easy to set up ST, to get traction.

    @Exposed: I totally remember the "lol Gief" fallout from the last EVO HDR tourney. "He couldn't do that in ST" lololol.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    edited December 2013
    eltrouble wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure this was just overblown speculation by the online forum community more than anything else. Simply based on tourney entrants and results, it seems like a vast majority of "ST diehards" did in fact play HDR in its heyday.

    That is correct, but what game are you playing now ? ST or HDR ?

    I think the real problem is - ST hardcore players did play hdr, but they never embraced it, and when the casuals started to fade away to the new SF game, they simply went back to the classic. Which pretty much left HDR dead in the water.

    I agree with what Papercut said in another thread:
    " As far as ST lasting another 20 years, I don't see that happening. Not to be a pessimist, but I think ST's fate was sealed along with HDR when HDR died. To me, I think that was the only source of getting new players involved. I myself am a perfect example of that. If not for HDR, I would have never opened up to ST. I was the hyper fighting guy complaining about bailout supers and other ST changes that I didn't agree with at the time. With no new players coming in, it's impossible to keep this thing going for long. Once we current active members start getting too old or stop having time to show up to events, the ST scene will go quietly into the night."


    Post edited by Emanuelb on


  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    ST players played HDR. People need to stop falling back on this because it's simply not true. Unfortunately, most of the influx of new school HDR players didn't support the game offline at tournaments. Once SF4 started to really take off and players stopped supporting HDR by going to tourneys and was dropped from official tournament status, there was really no incentive for many to keep playing it.

    However, while HDR was a nice change of pace, without an official release in Japan, it never stood a real chance to replace ST. Even then, it might not have happened since it wouldn't have a presence in Japanese arcades, which is still the preferred choice to play Street Fighter over there.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,703
    What we need is other developers making their own ST's and getting support for it, since you can't count on Capcom to do it correctly anyway.
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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 6,247
    new st to be success, dont add new tech or attacks to original 16, but add at least 4 new chars

    so, 20 chars= 20 yrs celebration

    ST already has 33 characters...
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,273
    Kuroppi wrote: »
    However, while HDR was a nice change of pace, without an official release in Japan, it never stood a real chance to replace ST. Even then, it might not have happened since it wouldn't have a presence in Japanese arcades, which is still the preferred choice to play Street Fighter over there.

    This is something I never understood - why this game was never relasead in Japan, and with a proper arcade version ? This is weird especially considering that HDR sold very well on psn/xbl



  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    Question....Does anyone know why HDR wasn't released in japan?

    I think the future of ST in the US depends on the next gen of consoles. If a high quality true version of ST, or GMC preferably, made its way to the next gen, it would breathe some life back into the game. As it is now... HDR is barely alive online and ggpo is too difficult to setup for the new generation of players.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Still miffed there wasn't a real purist mode in HDR for all graphics, but I do enjoy the game for what it is.

    A small group of us have been tinkering with an ST hack for...god, a few years now. Mostly it's improvements to the old cast, with some alterations to supers and some of the better ideas from HDR for the ST half. I've been meaning to do character write-ups, but life's way hectic at the moment. Anyone who's curious, send me a PM and I'll give you a taste.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited December 2013
    I'm looking forward for the day of release man! Hope that day is close. I wonder how will everyone react to it...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • NorieagaNorieaga FADC x ROFLCOPTER Joined: Posts: 4,223
    HDR had a good start. It slowed down because of no Japanese release, the impending release of SF4, and the fact that some of the community was divided on it (some of the ST community, no offence). I enjoyed HDR more than ST only because I was able to use Cammy in it, but overall I think both games are equally amazing. Granted, I do play ST GGPO much more than HDR now because its a wasteland online.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Again, other than randoms online who were extremely vocal in their opposition to HDR, where's the proof that offline members (those who frequent ST tournaments in person) were against HDR? There were a couple, but for the most part, ST guys played HDR too. That's all I'm really interested in.

    You could make a serious case if people were concurrently running ST opposite HDR at major tourneys, but I don't see any of that happening.
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    The reason I always heard HDR wasn't released in Japan was because of some legal/licensing issues? Whatever that means.

    Norieaga, I'll be a broken record here but ST players played HDR and no matter how "split the community" was, that didn't have any affect on the success of the game. The game was successful but eventually died out because players stopped supporting the game.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    At this point talking about why HDR didn't last is pointless. ST has survived and that's where the focus should be at.

    The original post was about another release with a rebalance. I think the boat has been rocked enough in that regard and the last thing we need is another version to argue about. Then it would turn into that version vs HDR...etc.

    I think the best thing about ST is overcoming bad odds... when someone like Kusmondo can get to the grand finals of Evo with Honda....that shit is priceless and all thanks to a lack of balance. That's what makes him a legend.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 650
    Who wants to see a perfectly balanced game? It would be much nicer to have one where the potential of the entire cast is maximized.
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