A couple questions on building an ST supergun

Lance3rdLance3rd Alaska 3rd StrikeJoined: Posts: 986
I'd like to build an ST supergun (maybe eventually stick it in a cab), but want to make sure I have the specifics understood before I embark. so just a couple starting questions.

1) what all do you need from the PCB? I've read something about A board and B board but I'm not sure what that means.

2) are there battery issues with CPS2 the same way there are with CPS3, where you have a dead board if the battery dies?

3) the standard in Japan for 3s setups is H2H cabs with Seimitsu sticks and Sanwa buttons. is it the same case for ST?

thanks in advance for any answers!

Comments

  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    edited January 2014
    1) You need both (A Board = motherboard, the "console", B Board = game board, the "cartridge")
    2) Yes, CPS2 has that issue as well. But if a board dies, its possible to revive it (these boards are known as "phoenix" versions)
    3) As far as i know the japanese standard is Seimitsu LS32 stick and Seimitsu buttons, never played on a jap cab though so i may be wrong.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    Japan standard is Seimetsu LS32 and Sanwa buttons.
    supercade.damdai.com
    tonamento.damdai.com
    frame-advantage.com
  • Lance3rdLance3rd Alaska 3rd Strike Joined: Posts: 986
    Thanks to you both!
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    just a caveat regarding the phoenix versions, Some people believe them to be buggy / slightly inaccurate.

    and an ST phoenix board only retains it's value because ST hardware is different from other CPS2 games (the daughter board). Otherwise Phoenix boards are basically bootlegs/unofficial conversions and their value is reduced.

    Just be aware of that before letting your ST board die.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    just a caveat regarding the phoenix versions, Some people believe them to be buggy / slightly inaccurate.

    A properly Phoenixed board by someone who knows what they're doing should be exactly the same, since the core data isn't altered in the slightest. As far as practical applications go, I haven't met a single person who can definitely claim that there's a major difference between standard arcade hardware and Phoenixed boards, and I doubt they can feel the difference.

  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    I have 3 Phoenix boards and I've used them regularly.... Never encountered a bug
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    People who think Phoenix boards should be valued lower/are boots are insane.
    _______________________________________________________________
    STRevival

    Twitter | Twitch | Youtube
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,719
    hanasu wrote: »
    People who think Phoenix boards should be valued lower/are boots are insane.

    I think it's just a collector's mentality. Any alterations to the original design are usually deemd to lower it's credibility, despite whatever improvements it makes. Same deal goes for cars.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited January 2014
    eltrouble wrote: »
    hanasu wrote: »
    People who think Phoenix boards should be valued lower/are boots are insane.

    I think it's just a collector's mentality. Any alterations to the original design are usually deemd to lower it's credibility, despite whatever improvements it makes. Same deal goes for cars.

    That's partially true, the issue for collectors is authenticity. Battery mods don't decrease the value for collectors as much as phoenixes. The problem with phoenixes is that for most collectors, there is no way to verify that a phoenix is flashed over the original board. I can guarantee you that the gigantic inflood of progear phoenixes appearing on ebay the past half year isn't some hidden stock suddenly popping up, or all progear owners suddenly deciding at the same time they want to sell the board.

    It's people seizing an opportunity, flashing a progear rom (the board is worth about 3x more than most other games -- and usually on par/more expensive than ST) over something like COTA and making a killing passing it off to uninformed people as if it were an original. The real issue are the more expensive games like progear, hsf, Mogura, etc... but that doesn't say these flashes don't happen for other games as well. When capcom does an official conversion they keep the suicide battery and don't use a phoenix rom.

    And it's not only for collectors, because I mean, sure a layperson who values the gameplay of HSF, for example can buy HSF for $500.

    or they can just buy any other random board for $50-$200 and pay another person (or do it themselves) and flash HSF on it for at most another $50-100...

    and when they get tired of the game, print out a HSF sticker, stick it on the board, and sell it to some unlucky, uninformed bloke for at least double for what it cost them.

    THAT's the issue with phoenixes. Why are they valued lower? Because the purchaser is taking the risk that it is in-fact a boot. And if it isn't a boot, the only people he can really make that claim to are other people who have the ability to confirm, (almost no one) and most of the common things you can check can be faked as well.

    It's the same issue coin collectors have with washed or polished coins. There are washed coins that can even fool avid collectors/evaluators. Boards that have lost the encryption are DAMAGED. and so are coins that are scratched / polished.

    Washed coins just mean polished, I don't know why coin collectors say washed, but I've accepted the terminology.

    Yes, some people have the ability to tell whether phoenixes are legitimate or not, but the vast majority can't. because the boards are essentially identical to other games (sans ST), which is again, why ST 's phoenixed value is only reduced (if at all) by as much as a battery mod. (almost nothing, if at all), in fact, Like ST phoenix, a battery mod for some collectors improves the value.

    I have no issue with purchasing phoenixed ST on par with unphoenixed. But I have an issue of paying that price to someone who flashed it on a COTA board and making a living that way. The value of the service of phoenixing isn't that much. ($100-400) depending on which board they overwrote and what the value of the new game is
    Post edited by Unessential on
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited January 2014
    Just to illustrate the situation again, A legitimate Progear board would pop up on ebay once or twice a year (still true) last year I saw one during the summer, and one just before the new year). Then suddenly, a little over a year ago, A couple of Phoenixed boards Sold on par to the non-phoenixed board. Since then phoenixes started coming every 2 months, every month, and now, at any given time, you can find at least 3 phoenixed progear boards on ebay listings. again, the only legitimate explanation I can think of is Everyone who had a phoenixed board has just been holding on to their boards until now and all decided to sell at the same time. but I think the more likely explanation is that most of these are boots. and I, personally would not be willing to risk up to $600 to find out

    Even phoenixes didn't really start to lose value until people other than razoola started doing them. (Razoola would only phoenix the same game on the same board and IIRC he did it for 30 Euros)
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    With GMC and ST... There are no conversions on the market, and it would be very easy to spot cause of the mask roms and the additional pcb needed. A Phoenixed ST or GMC is almost certainly the real deal cause of the effort it would take to create a conversion. I'm not even sure it's possible
  • SteveTrenSteveTren RYU Ph.D Joined: Posts: 999
    edited January 2014
    Like Mike said, There are no Bootleg CPS2 ST or GMC boards, all Phoenixed ST and GMC's started out as originals. The hardware is different on those boards so it isn't practical to make a bootleg. That being said there are a bunch of non CPS2 emulated ST/multi-game boards out there. Also, 99% of CPS2 AE/Hyper boards I see out there are conversions, which is interesting as it pretty much has all the same ST code built into it.
    GGPO: stevetren
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited January 2014
    Yeah, I mentioned earlier that ST keeps its value because the hardware is differnet.
    ... ST phoenix board only retains it's value because ST hardware is different from other CPS2 games (the daughter board)....

    I only went on that huge offshoot because Hanasu said
    hanasu wrote: »
    People who think Phoenix boards should be valued lower/are boots are insane.

    and unless he didn't read my first post, or misunderstood it, He was speaking in general, not about ST.

    Although I didn't know GMC had different hardware too... I know ST has a daughter board. how is GMC different?



    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • mikeidgemikeidge Joined: Posts: 565
    Gmc has a daughter board too. The chips on those are built in and can't be removed unless they are soldered out.
  • hanasuhanasu Joined: Posts: 130
    You're confusing phoenixing with conversions. And if you buy a CPS2 board without asking for board pics you deserve what you get.
    _______________________________________________________________
    STRevival

    Twitter | Twitch | Youtube
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    edited January 2014
    hanasu wrote: »
    You're confusing phoenixing with conversions. And if you buy a CPS2 board without asking for board pics you deserve what you get.

    A board pic isn't enough to determine if its legitimate. I can print out and slap on a HSF sticker and slap it on a COTA board easily. And barring having an expert there to physically examine the item, no one can tell the difference.

    There are legit conversions, I understand that. But they are either done officially by capcom --which aren't phoenixes and have the battery intact.

    The other option is
    If you're talking about people like razoola (who I mentioned earlier, who used to --and still may-- only flash the same game on the same board) then the issue is that there are people who are not as honest who are able to do the flash and make "unofficial conversions" which are bootlegs on the original hardware. Im not talking about emulated bootlegs or multicarts or boots on different hardware. There is an issue with the legitimacy of some CPS2 games on original hardware (mostly the rare and valuable titles) because they do not contain the same game that capcom originally flashed on them.

    Capcom never officially released any phoenix versions, the ROMs floating around are hacked Roms done by razoola.


    I gave you the benefit of the Doubt last time but it not going to this time simply because I don't want to be misunderstood, and nothing to do with what I think of you. So to be absolutely clear: I am speaking in general about CPS2 games. Not about ST/GMC which are exceptions

    And I was/am assuming you are too (correct me if I'm wrong). So let's get at least that straight first or else we aren't even talking about the same topic
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    I just realized GMC was ST. >.> for some reason I read GMC as "new challengers" instead of "Grand master Challenge" >.>

    Yeah. all versions of ST have a daugher board and original hardware. I knew that. I was confused because I was pretty sure new challengers used a regular B board. :lol:
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,191
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • SteveTrenSteveTren RYU Ph.D Joined: Posts: 999
    edited April 2014

    This is the first of its kind that I've seen. I kinda figured it was possible and just a matter of time before someone figured it out. I guess this means you can convert any old Cps2 to ST now?

    GGPO: stevetren
  • x64x64 Fuck your SRK Joined: Posts: 3,191
    That's what I was thinking. I wonder if ST running on any CPS2 board would be considered arcade perfect? Sure would be nice to not have to shell out $300+ for one...
    ST/HDR/USF2: Honda/Rog/O.Hawk | USF4: Bison | SFV: Ryu :(
    XBL: mr x64 | PSN: deadpool_zero | SFV: epistaxis64
    Fightcade/USF2: x64
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    According to CPS-2 Shock, there are both SSF2 and SSF2T/X Hispanic versions (read Mexican, in this case). I could play the emulated SSF2 one: only a few dialogs are translated into Spanish, namely score messages (reversal, combos and first attacks), win quotes and endings.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,171
    Well, the roms would have to be modified to work without the daughter board... there Might be a few glitches that won't make it arcade perfect. but It's probably got the best chance of being arcade perfect, you just gotta test. there is no daughter board so it *isn't* the original hardware. but it is very similar.

    I doubt there would be any differences if it were done properly, But I wouldn't make that claim until there is a reasonable amount of testing (inputlag, side by side comparisons, etc...)
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
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