3rd Strike General Discussion Thread

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  • Ryu24Ryu24 Retired 3S Titan Joined: Posts: 1,423
    Kuroda's fingering skills are so fast.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    Parry allows mind to mind to overcome character to character.
    Play more.
  • jblairjblair Joined: Posts: 1,437
    Your ideas about parrying as a balancing factor are devoid of ideas about spacing and how god awful the spacing of characters besides chun and ken are in comparison to chun and ken.
  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,878
    My friend is flying into NorCal and he will be there for a month. Was wondering if any NorCal players could let me know when and where you guys meetup so I can relay the message to him.
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    jblair wrote: »
    Your ideas about parrying as a balancing factor are devoid of ideas about spacing and how god awful the spacing of characters besides chun and ken are in comparison to chun and ken.

    Parry isn't a 'balancing factor'.
    Play more.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I know you guys weren't referring to Kuroda but I wanted to mention this anyway. I think it's interesting that Kuroda Makoto vs MOV Chun involved very little parrying and was largely based around "fluid" movements into grabs and short up close poke wars.
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  • iWinWeDateiWinWeDate Whiff punish everything. Joined: Posts: 298
    Lets say there are two solid players with equal skill, they both know what buttons to press and when to press them, can whiff punish attacks and know the spacing for every mu in the game. One of those players starts fighting people like Daigo, Justin and Kuroda every week for the exp. Might be a stupid question but why would that player end up being stronger? How does experience change your game when there is nothing more to learn? Thanks in advance.
  • Ryu24Ryu24 Retired 3S Titan Joined: Posts: 1,423
    Because there's always something to learn. And there are 100 more attributes to this game than just spacing, button pressing, punishes. There's an infinite ways to grow.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    Yeah there is never a time when there's nothing to learn.
    There's the game itself which is basically limitless as far as knowledge, and then there's your opponent who is a living breathing being who is making his own decisions from moment to moment. You have to learn the game and players and players are always changing.
    Play more.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    Lets say there are two solid players with equal skill, they both know what buttons to press and when to press them, can whiff punish attacks and know the spacing for every mu in the game. One of those players starts fighting people like Daigo, Justin and Kuroda every week for the exp. Might be a stupid question but why would that player end up being stronger? How does experience change your game when there is nothing more to learn? Thanks in advance.

    Because out of all match ups they could learn or have learned, they are now reinforcing the timeless Daigo/Justin match up series. If they were playing Kuroda, it would be because they were introduced to a purer version of the rhythm that lets you parry -> block -> gives you enough time to do whatever you want.
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  • DuralathDuralath 3S Gatekeeper Joined: Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The player ends up stronger because of his exposure to multiple styles of play that are rigorous and more demanding of the mental game. While you may have a grasp of the physical game that is being played it is up to you figure out the opponent them self. Just like poker, you don't play the cards; you play the opponent.

    You may know where to place your options. When and in response to what is another question
    CFN: Duralath/ServantArcher FightCade: ServantArcher/Kyros Valchion
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  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    You lost when you mentioned daigo.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    edited September 2015
    ryan. wrote: »
    You lost when you mentioned daiego.

    Play more.
  • iWinWeDateiWinWeDate Whiff punish everything. Joined: Posts: 298
    5 Star said 'I don't believe in footsies. 3rd Strike is not ST, footsies is a ST term. I don't ever use footsies Is to describe 3rd Strike. Footsies don't exist in the world of 3rd Strike". Is this bullshit or is my definition of footsies way off?
  • iWinWeDateiWinWeDate Whiff punish everything. Joined: Posts: 298
    edited September 2015

    Why do I always see this aggressive style of play in this mu? I see the same thing a lot when people fight yun, yang and alex. Calmly walking in and out of a certain space, poking and whiff punishing is how I like playing 3S, are you better off playing really aggressive in these mu's?
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    5 Star said 'I don't believe in footsies. 3rd Strike is not ST, footsies is a ST term. I don't ever use footsies Is to describe 3rd Strike. Footsies don't exist in the world of 3rd Strike". Is this bullshit or is my definition of footsies way off?

    I'm not really sure this comment qualifies as a definition of footsies.

    I assume you mean from Ken's perspective in Ken v Urien, and its kind of dependent on playstyle. playing conservatively is really strong vs urien so i wouldnt say your approach is wrong.
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  • Ryu24Ryu24 Retired 3S Titan Joined: Posts: 1,423
    5 star changed his mind since then. Footsie is hugely important factor in the game.

    And the match you picked is considered low level and shouldn't represent the way the matchup should be played. Watch respectable Japanese players to get the hang of the appropriate approach.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    When did he change his mind? I've never heard of him ever changing his mind. He's not the type to rush to conclusions.
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  • Ryu24Ryu24 Retired 3S Titan Joined: Posts: 1,423
    Read his thread '5 Star teaches 3rd Strike'
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I have read that thread, I don't recall him saying that. I think maybe you took some of his words out of context but I'll ask.
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  • _Exiled__Exiled_ Joined: Posts: 1,249
    She better retain or I'll be pissed!!!!
    Going back to the classics....
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    I <3 you all!!!
  • AlexisdabombAlexisdabomb Joined: Posts: 2,528
    So, what do you guys think of SF 5 so far? To address the elephant in the room. 11 characters have been revealed. The gameplay has been revealed and is what it is for now. Feedback on the netcode has been mostly positive.

    I'm liking the direction of it. I like that nearly all of the SF 4 garbage has been ripped out of it. To me it just looks like an honest fighting game except every character has at least 1-3 moves that counter fireball shit. Which I like. All that does is shut down fullscreen fireball keepaway. If you're smart about chucking fireballs it shouldn't be much an issue.

    The thing I've noticed is that the majority of 3S dudes don't really play anything else and have little to no interest in other fighters. I guess 3S can't really be topped for a lot of people which I can understand. But for me, I just look a really good fighter with great balance and great online. And that's surprisingly hard to find I think. You either find something that is broken. Or something great but the online is terrible. Or a game that has great balance and online but no one plays it.
    "I wish someone would flex in front of the camera and say I'm awesome....

    ;_; "

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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    Well. I love 3S but I have very low interest in playing online on OE or my PC. Every time I think it's going to be cool and fun I am reminded it's not the same and it's a bit of a let down.

    So because of that 5 interests me. I hope they design it to work well with a little online delay, that way we can play the real game online. I'm lazy and have other interests so if I can play regularly and it isn't a shitfest online then that's cool. Also it feels very different from 4 which is nice. It isn't as radical as I hoped it would be but it seems like there's potential for it to be fun.

    I'm optimistic until I can play it for enough time that I know it isn't for me.
    Why not be optimistic really. 3S is going nowhere and neither is GG Xrd.

    I do like that it shares a few things with 3S. I like that there's much less of a focus on setups and hard knockdown wakeup situations and all that junk. I like that you can tech-roll. I like the idea of v-skill... I really like v-reversal... I like how counter-hits could be really important and the hitstop and bonus frames for counter-hit allow for a quasi-parry feeling where you do something and can see what happens as it happens and react to take advantage without needing 5 jabs in a row. Defense and offense seems more balanced.
    Play more.
  • AlexisdabombAlexisdabomb Joined: Posts: 2,528
    I'm like you, I just want a good fighting game with GDLK online.
    "I wish someone would flex in front of the camera and say I'm awesome....

    ;_; "

    Dander.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,403
    The state of the game at the E3 demo looked really cool, the later builds had some dubious changes I dislike, and there are some overall changes I'd love to see (walkspeed, hitboxes, the overall close-range game, etc), but I still see clear potential.

    As long as the game has moments where you can regularly make your opponent do stupid shit and really destroy him for it, I'll probably like the game. 3S had loads of those, with parries and how much damage you could get from a whiff punish. There looks like there are a couple options for that in SFV as well.
  • iWinWeDateiWinWeDate Whiff punish everything. Joined: Posts: 298
    Legit question why all the hate for sf4?
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    From a 3S perspective it's awful.
    Terrible looking, sounding... No style. Boring same old characters.

    Gameplay wise almost everything which makes third strike itself is missing.

    So if you like 3S, it's hard to see much of value in 4.
    Play more.
  • EverdredEverdred seriously casual Joined: Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited September 2015
    Everyone with Srk in there screen name on xbl would avoid playing me online for some reason.
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  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,146
    edited September 2015
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    Legit question why all the hate for sf4?

    if you took any of the older SF games serious it's easy to see why people hate 4. anti-airs suck. mobility sucks. mixups suck. normals suck. supers suck. just about everything that was fun in the SF series they watered down to the point where it's hard to like. the only thing that's kinda fun is doing some of the combos but otherwise i hate it.


    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

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  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,940
    SF4 wasnt a game made with the player in mind, but a fan in mind. Mishmash of 2 development teams.
    But I dont think anyone around here even wastes time harping or even talking about that game.

    Recommended: watch 5Star, Ken, a footsies/fundamental character play some matches, like how do you find quotes like that before some matches in 2015
    Tebbo wrote: »
    ryan. wrote: »
    You lost when you mentioned daiego.
    154790379_a57602a537_z.jpgp9985.jpg

    keep seeing worse & worse Ryu in other things cross culture
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
    2016 = "Releasing a Complete Game isn't Street Fighter"
    You wouldn't even understand if I told you.
    People will forget what you said.
    People will forget what you did.
    But, people will never forget how you made them feel.

  • iWinWeDateiWinWeDate Whiff punish everything. Joined: Posts: 298
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    Legit question why all the hate for sf4?

    if you took any of the older SF games serious it's easy to see why people hate 4. anti-airs suck . mobility sucks mixups suck. normals suck supers suck. just about everything that was fun in the SF series they watered down to the point where it's hard to like. the only thing that's kinda fun is doing some of the combos but otherwise i hate it.

    Explain to me how all of these suck.
  • EverdredEverdred seriously casual Joined: Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited September 2015
    Jumping in on why sf4 is bad

    Also just the way the characters look in general. For sf4 in my opinion playing most to all the other sf's since sf2 it's kinda lame how they sort of forget they did a 3d rendered sf with the the ex series and pretend it didn't exist and make all the models not match their hit boxes for the normals.

    Play sf ex or ex2 +a and those are solid games. Hit boxes make sense it's simple and clean. Sure they don't have the high detail in comparison to drawn sprites but the argument at the time was that the technology was new. Everything looked boxy at the time so the only criticism was that it didn't have the charm of hand drawn sprites. Other than that, ex series is more sf than sf4, they accomplished using 3d renderings on a 2d plane while using the animations of the 3D characters to pull off smooth 2D gameplay.

    Sf4 comes out and it's like they didn't look at anything... Artistic style is one thing but to actively have to go back and add hit stun that doesn't match the animations of some normals or special moves to work properly makes it play junky.

    Sf should be obvious to a spectator to see what's going on. If someone hasn't played a single game before or even seen it they can tell what's going on. Sf4 complicated things that shouldn't be complicated.

    You give everyone combos but make timings so strict it's a chore to input it. It's not about reaction it's about setting up a knock down to mix up. Jabs and shorts into everything. Leave a gap you get shoryu'd

    It's nice Capcom wanted to make a game so different but they did it at the cost of taking away the flow and openness past games had.

    Every character has to play to the match up. So the players skill is capped by how well they know a match while this was true in every other game the rigidity of the system in place in sf4 leaves only that.

    Third strike you can actively go through your head a list of options for a situation based on reading the opponent not just the character you are playing more so than sf4 because of the mobility the characters have, more options to be offensive and defensive. Love it or hate it parries open that game up so wide it's depths are still being probed to this day. The list goes on and on. I'm no expert but I've seen and played most every game before sf4 and that was a clear rejection of the past.

    They threw out way too much good when they were fixing it for newer players. And even that as an excuse is a cop out because folks start blaming new players where it's not their fault Capcom has done this.

    Sf4 would be a better game if it came out back in the 90s it's not terrible and I see why people like it but the premise of its gameplay after a history of making competitive fighting games is a rejection of that history.

    That rejection of its history is why a lot of people dislike sf4 because it makes you feel like you know better than how it forces you to play. because you as a player that has been around all this time and instead of learning a new mechanic like every other game does it comes in tow with eliminating a lot of options and things the player base has learned while staying faithful to the series throughout the years.

    Sorry for typos
    Post edited by Everdred on
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    what the fuck did you just say?

    jk I didn't read


    ooooooooooooooooohhhhh straight up light kick to flash kick JUST CAUSE IM ONLINE
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  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,403
    edited September 2015
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    Legit question why all the hate for sf4?

    if you took any of the older SF games serious it's easy to see why people hate 4. anti-airs suck . mobility sucks mixups suck. normals suck supers suck. just about everything that was fun in the SF series they watered down to the point where it's hard to like. the only thing that's kinda fun is doing some of the combos but otherwise i hate it.

    Explain to me how all of these suck.
    - Anti-airs trade or get beaten a lot more often than almost any other game I've played. They also don't do as much damage outside of stuff like DP FADC ultra, I feel.
    - Characters have slow walk speeds, dashes are okay but not great. Quite a few characters have separate mobility options, but they still feel sluggish in comparison to their versions in older games
    - Doing basic offense in SF4 is really hard compared to older games. Low-throw-overhead-mixups can easily be backdashed or crouchteched out of, and getting people to just sit still and block is a chore. This is an important reason for why the vortex heavy gameplay pre-ultra evolved: it was so much consistent than other forms of offense since you couldn't just backdash out of it. I know some people like the up-close game of SF4, but I really don't.
    - SF4 has weird hit/hurtboxes which makes the moves feel "off" in a lot of cases. Combine this with low blockstun and few active frames on moves. I also feel like normals are weirdly difficult to whiff punish in SF4, and while there are multiple other factors playing in to why that is the case (the walkspeed, for one, since it's harder to bait normals), the recovery frames in older games feel longer (I could be imagining this though). Finally, focus attacks make the sort of well-placed normals you'd see in 3S, ST or CvS2 less rewarding, because long recovery moves can easily be absorbed and punished for 250+ damage.
  • jblairjblair Joined: Posts: 1,437
    Very concise list of grievances pretty much identical to my own.
  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,146
    edited September 2015
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    iWinWeDate wrote: »
    Legit question why all the hate for sf4?

    if you took any of the older SF games serious it's easy to see why people hate 4. anti-airs suck . mobility sucks mixups suck. normals suck supers suck. just about everything that was fun in the SF series they watered down to the point where it's hard to like. the only thing that's kinda fun is doing some of the combos but otherwise i hate it.

    Explain to me how all of these suck.

    looks like Naeras already answered that question really well.

    EDIT

    i don't want to hate on SF4 all the time because some people really like it. i remember 3S getting SO MUCH HATE on srk back in the day. if SF4 is fun for you then that's cool. i can only state the reasons why i dislike most of it. i feel it was really a wasted opportunity to make it better with each update and there's just way too many characters. it becomes very match up heavy and the only way to balance that is to dull down the characters. just my opinion.


    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

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  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,940
    like you cant make someone not like BUDWEISERIV if they like it
    but you can ask them if thats like the only beer they ever tried or what

    see the tallcan wouldnt be good in this case

    oh and its like taking all the colors of Ryu,
    as seen in sketch 2nd impact intro dope pic
    -
    I post that, and today, news of BUDWEISER going to get hostile takeover. No growth in America, all their growth outside the US. As seen by fashionable Asian Women in their beer can outfits
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
    2016 = "Releasing a Complete Game isn't Street Fighter"
    You wouldn't even understand if I told you.
    People will forget what you said.
    People will forget what you did.
    But, people will never forget how you made them feel.

  • AlexisdabombAlexisdabomb Joined: Posts: 2,528
    Buddweiser tastes like piss.
    "I wish someone would flex in front of the camera and say I'm awesome....

    ;_; "

    Dander.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    riffing off what everdred was saying,

    sf4 is very deterministic. from the char select screen it begins. then the ultra selection.
    then in an actual match it's all about how this leads into this which is guaranteed. it's boring.

    people who know 4 the most now think that everything needs to be a guarantee or it's awful. everything has to be safe or how can you possibly attack? how are throws useful if you can just techroll? how do you approach someone without some kind of gimmick, movement special, divekick, etc.?

    you mean i need to just walk into their space without frame advantage?!!?!? terrifying!

    it's not that it's easy or simple or anything like that. people who are good at sf4 are smart.
    it just lacks creativity. matches are one dimensional and obvious.
    Play more.
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