Kill... Kill... Kill Them All! The New Decapre General Thread

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  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Decapre should give Abel a hard time. When he has no meter you can pretty much do whatever you want, and you have 3 frame jabs that always gives Abel a hard time. He can't punish hands spam at all and bad wheel kicks can be punished with Ultra 2.

    Ultra 1 is useable in this match even with EX roll. Any block CoD is a free c.lp to TC xx air grab.

    The only bad thing in the match is the damage you take if he has meter and hits you with f+mk. Light punch will beat f+mk to TT, but as usual it is a guessing game. Walking jabs pressure is good. As for Elena I only played a good one once, for a good set, before I deployed. Tough match as it is hard to get around her c.lp. Take U2 or W for this match to punish her break dance move. React to overhead by looking for the yellow flash as Elena won't randomly though out any of EX move and punish woth c.lp to combo of choice. Elena can punish jab hands pressure (depends on your spacing), so use accordingly to your opponents ability to punish.
  • MalvadiscoMalvadisco Marambio Joined: Posts: 2,967
    abel is not a good mu for decapre IMO. MAYBE 5-5, but idk is shitty anyways
    CARACOLES
  • Nobus3r1Nobus3r1 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,500
    Decapre should give Abel a hard time. When he has no meter you can pretty much do whatever you want, and you have 3 frame jabs that always gives Abel a hard time. He can't punish hands spam at all and bad wheel kicks can be punished with Ultra 2.

    Ultra 1 is useable in this match even with EX roll. Any block CoD is a free c.lp to TC xx air grab.

    The only bad thing in the match is the damage you take if he has meter and hits you with f+mk. Light punch will beat f+mk to TT, but as usual it is a guessing game. Walking jabs pressure is good. As for Elena I only played a good one once, for a good set, before I deployed. Tough match as it is hard to get around her c.lp. Take U2 or W for this match to punish her break dance move. React to overhead by looking for the yellow flash as Elena won't randomly though out any of EX move and punish woth c.lp to combo of choice. Elena can punish jab hands pressure (depends on your spacing), so use accordingly to your opponents ability to punish.
    Ok. Sounds like I'm being too defensive against Abel. Against Elena though it's not even EX Mallet Smash that's the issue it's the difficulty in timing anti-airs against her, getting out poked and her command normal overheads that are giving me issues.
    House of Bane
    ID: 8V596
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    elena's jump is so slow, you'll almost always have sting charge.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Elena jump is bad but just practice in training doing you anti airs and make sure you are using the right ones if you don't have charge for stinger.
  • WikumWikum Joined: Posts: 3,021
    jebop wrote: »
    Dunno why people think she's useless, because she lost something she was never meant to have.

    i certainly don't think she's useless regardless of the loss. her w ultra is probably in the top 5 in the game although the damage isn't the best. even if you take ultra 2 away entirely, ultra 1 is surprisingly useful even against characters with teleports/escapes etc.
    Malvadisco wrote: »
    abel is not a good mu for decapre IMO. MAYBE 5-5, but idk is shitty anyways

    no i totally agree this match isn't fun. not as bad as when i have to use guile though lol.
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    her damage is good she can do like 400 damage meterless lol
    STEAM: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: OG_Rawbertson)
    PSN: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: Rawbertson)
    Honda / Birdie
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    edited May 2015



    yeah her damage is actually top tier, it's just that combos are character specific. double dp stuff only works on 5 characters, double cr.hp stuff only works on a handful, etc.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    edited May 2015
    haha i am not using any of that crazy shit in a match, but regardless i think the damage is good even on the universals like double mp xx stinger and cl fp, cr mk xx stinger.

    why is it that cr LP cannot combo to slide? it is +6 just like cr MP, is it because there is not as much hit stun on cr LP?

    starting to come around to realize how important it is to combo to slide instead of stinger. comboing to stinger really isnt worth the extra damage to have to do work all over again to get back in. i think its OK once you are in the corner to always go stinger though.
    STEAM: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: OG_Rawbertson)
    PSN: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: Rawbertson)
    Honda / Birdie
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    13 hitstunvs. 16, slide is 14f

    +/- don't matter for cancel combos

    Also i do double dp stuff in matches vs. Dudley the most as he's usually the easiest of those characters to corner. Then probably rufus next.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fuerte also is pretty easy
  • Nobus3r1Nobus3r1 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,500
    Veserius wrote: »
    timing is tighter, also hurts backdash u2 near the corner.

    bigger impact is on divekick matchups
    Speaking of dive kick matchups I was curious what people thought of Infiltration's play of Decapre in a couple of those this past weekend at Toryuken. Other than the fact that he is still largely getting away with murder (un/under-punished Scramble~HP Break) the thing I found most interest about his play is his choice of combo routes. He almost completely prioritizes knockdown over damage in that his go to BnB was cr./cl. LP, TC1 > Air Throw with rare appearances by cr.LP, c.LP, st.LP, st./cr.MP, LK Scramble~K and cr.MP, cr.MP, HP Sting. I forget if it was against Justin or K-Brad but I even saw cr.LP, TC2 as I assume he's using the LP and MP to hit confirm and then go with the appropriate target combo route. I also noticed that he actually bothered mapping a dedicated throw button during button checks which I found interesting (didn't catch to what button but without knowing his sticks layout it's not particularly helpful to know this). As I said at the beginning here I'm curious about people's thoughts on how he's approaching both these sorts of matchups and in how he's playing the character.
    House of Bane
    ID: 8V596
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Everytime I ever watch any decapre they get away with hp breaks. It's dumb, if it's not meaty its free punish. Also the knockdown over damage because you wanna keep pressure unless you want to lame it out or playing someone you dont care to keep close.
  • Nobus3r1Nobus3r1 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,500
    Everytime I ever watch any decapre they get away with hp breaks. It's dumb, if it's not meaty its free punish. Also the knockdown over damage because you wanna keep pressure unless you want to lame it out or playing someone you dont care to keep close.
    I think that with HP Break people aren't (somehow after ~1 year of it) used to a move that has as much blockstun as it does and yet is still insanely negative. I mostly use it to catch opponent who're coming towards me with something. I'm still waiting on the super salty message for when I do this into U2 without the person sending the message realizing that if I don't know which side I'm going to end up on that I wouldn't have been able to ultra them. My generally judicious use of HP Break also would likely explain why I don't do so well in the mirror match online.
    House of Bane
    ID: 8V596
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    comboing to slide, tc air throw, or hands is almost always optimal.

    DP is useful vs. characters without reversals, or if you're stun counting, but the momentumgain otherwise is too strong. Being able to do looping pressure in sf4 is important especially with how small the damage differences are usually.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • ZacharaZachara Joined: Posts: 915
    I think that with HP Break people aren't (somehow after ~1 year of it) used to a move that has as much blockstun as it does and yet is still insanely negative.

    What I don't get is how online players tend to punish this but the higher calibre players still don't.
    Watching Infiltration play is often a chore for me. He's good but watching him do loads of unsafe stuff and it never getting punished is frustrating as hell to watch.

  • Nobus3r1Nobus3r1 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,500
    Zachara wrote: »
    I think that with HP Break people aren't (somehow after ~1 year of it) used to a move that has as much blockstun as it does and yet is still insanely negative.

    What I don't get is how online players tend to punish this but the higher calibre players still don't.
    Watching Infiltration play is often a chore for me. He's good but watching him do loads of unsafe stuff and it never getting punished is frustrating as hell to watch.
    The answer for this is really easy. Online players are used to online Decapre player who use HP Break as the most integral part of her offense. I've played against people online who are shooting for HP Break 4-6x per round. You either learn how to block and punish that or you lose. In short I think the high caliber offline players are trying to be too smart in their approach.
    House of Bane
    ID: 8V596
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    the thing is depending on how far away you are when you land hp break and whether you use EX or not will determine how meaty it hits / how safe you are. obviously many instances are not punishable. if you are smart with it you will mix it up and make it really hard for them to react in time... if you just blocked a regular one then blocked an ex one you are likely going to try and punish using the exact same window and press the button too early or late. it can be hard to punish espeically if you are forced to use a nomral and not a dp. then you just start mixing up the MP version and setting up low or throw or divekicking.

    probably using the throw button for some sort of OS perhaps for DP maybe you cant be thrown if you do LP Stinger with LK
    STEAM: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: OG_Rawbertson)
    PSN: OG_Rawbertson (CFN: Rawbertson)
    Honda / Birdie
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    edited May 2015
    Throw button is for target combo air throw because you can't plink on jump cancels.

    it cuts down on errors.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the thing is depending on how far away you are when you land hp break and whether you use EX or not will determine how meaty it hits / how safe you are. obviously many instances are not punishable. if you are smart with it you will mix it up and make it really hard for them to react in time... if you just blocked a regular one then blocked an ex one you are likely going to try and punish using the exact same window and press the button too early or late. it can be hard to punish espeically if you are forced to use a nomral and not a dp. then you just start mixing up the MP version and setting up low or throw or divekicking.

    probably using the throw button for some sort of OS perhaps for DP maybe you cant be thrown if you do LP Stinger with LK

    Nah son, they be getting away with terrible breaks, even NuckleDu was destroying some guy with cross up break, not meaty either. Anyway I got tired of people being silly and losing to it so I made a video. Just shows some examples of reacting to the descent.

  • Nobus3r1Nobus3r1 #RiseUp? Joined: Posts: 5,500
    Veserius wrote: »
    Throw button is for target combo air throw because you can't plink on jump cancels.

    it cuts down on errors.
    I figured that that was why he was using it even though I personally find that have 3P and 3K buttons (i.e. guaranteed Ultra or EX moves) reduces...problems more than having specific macros which I'm pretty sure Infiltration doesn't use since I'm nearly positive that his one unaccounted for button is an extra 'Select/Back' button. Honestly if the analog stick could hit diagonals for shit and the d-pad wasn't shit the Razer Sabretooth controller would be really boss for fighting games as it offers six extra programmable buttons.
    House of Bane
    ID: 8V596
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the thing is depending on how far away you are when you land hp break and whether you use EX or not will determine how meaty it hits / how safe you are. obviously many instances are not punishable. if you are smart with it you will mix it up and make it really hard for them to react in time... if you just blocked a regular one then blocked an ex one you are likely going to try and punish using the exact same window and press the button too early or late. it can be hard to punish espeically if you are forced to use a nomral and not a dp. then you just start mixing up the MP version and setting up low or throw or divekicking.

    probably using the throw button for some sort of OS perhaps for DP maybe you cant be thrown if you do LP Stinger with LK

    Nah son, they be getting away with terrible breaks, even NuckleDu was destroying some guy with cross up break, not meaty either. Anyway I got tired of people being silly and losing to it so I made a video. Just shows some examples of reacting to the descent.


    So some people bring up ex scramble and dive kicks in the video. If you try to grab a dive kick you're a genius. You are reacting to the break animation and audio que as you would ELF's wake up mix ups. It's really not hard to simply hit two buttons, and if you cant react with throw, focus beats every option lol. I don't show EX scramble because the properties are different and it's faster, you'll more than likely get thrown or if you focus you'll get armor broken or thrown. If you're reaction time is horrible this isn't going to help you at all.
  • MalvadiscoMalvadisco Marambio Joined: Posts: 2,967
    is not a good example, and is pretty derp the whole situation imo

    cr.mp xx scramble xx mp break is just too unsafe, if somebody fall for that they deserve it.

    scramble xx lp break and scramble xx DK are the best choices.

    even empty hk scramble into drill or a simple attack button is better than doing mp break

    if ppl is really doing stuff like that then idk let me punch koalas and babies
    CARACOLES
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    Watch Hurricane play, he does it all day. Off of like canceled jabs
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Veserius wrote: »
    Watch Hurricane play, he does it all day. Off of like canceled jabs

    I see Infiltration and Du cancel from jump in to s.lp xx scrambe or s.mk scramble all the time, I see Hurricane do it also. I guess I watch more vids of them than everyone else cause its common. Now Im not saying they do nothing but that, but its not uncommon to see it a few times a round.
  • MalvadiscoMalvadisco Marambio Joined: Posts: 2,967
    blocked deep j.hk into ex scramble mp break/dikekick is so fucking cheap

    jab xx scramble is just dumb
    CARACOLES
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Decapre nerfed scramble on PS4 version.
  • DiscountMarxDiscountMarx Joined: Posts: 5
    edited May 2015
    It looks like the scramble ranges were shortened. From what I can see I don't think it'll hurt her gameplan.

    Edit: Some are claiming it's just a graphical glitch
    Post edited by DiscountMarx on
  • RygRyg Joined: Posts: 146
    edited May 2015
    I tried to do a setup in order to do a meaty overhead and combo from it after a knockdown. However the only moves that combo from this are 3 frames moves. I dont get it as when done from footsies you can combo a c.LK which is 4 frames. I think it is maybe that when done against a standing opponent the frame advantage is decreased but it is only an hypothesis.

    Edit: I can also combo from it with c.HP if it hits counter ! Usually counterhit dont add frame advantage. Seems that each active frame has different properties...
    Post edited by Ryg on
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Wait, so point blank counter hit overhead lets you combo a c.fp? Lol.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    edited May 2015
    it's really easy to remember all the rules for overhead guys

    DF+MK causes 1F more hitstop/impact freeze to Decapre than it does the opponent.
    If connected as a counterhit on the first active frame DF+MK only gains +2F additional frame advantage on counterhit instead of the standard +3F for mids.
    The 2nd active frame of DF+MK has 1F less hitstun than the first active frame of DF+MK.
    The 2nd active frame of DF+MK does not gain any additional frame advantage on counterhit.
    The 2nd active frame of DF+MK has 1F less blockstun than the first active frame of DF+MK
    The 3rd active frame of DF+MK has 1F less hitstun than the first active frame of DF+MK when hitting standing opponent only. When hitting crouching opponents the hitstun is the same as the 1st active frame.
    The 3rd active frame of DF+MK has 2F less blockstun than the first active frame of DF+MK
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • KunikuKuniku Joined: Posts: 351
    Was trying to come up with a little charge practice combo, to tighten up my charge times etc so I can make certain combos more reliable, can you do HK Scramble to Spiral Arrow to AA U2? I know you can somoetimes get the MP Stinger off of the Spiral Arrow, wasn't sure if you could get U2 as well?
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    corner
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • KunikuKuniku Joined: Posts: 351
    Do you have to use a specific Spiral Arrow? and How high/low does it need to connect?
  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Kuniku wrote: »
    Do you have to use a specific Spiral Arrow? and How high/low does it need to connect?

    It catches people by surprise here and there when used rarely. It can be focused so you have to be careful. Ideally you want to aim for as low as possible (hit feet) for safest on block. You can use at the end of block strings etc. I don't use it too much, EX though is pretty good.

  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    you missed the rest of the question.

    MK seems to be the easiest for U2/sting juggles, but you have to use hk on some characters after stomp.
    Vuh-sair-ee-us or just Ves I guess | Twitter | Youtube  | Maj's Footsie Handbook  | My TMNT:TF Netplay Guide
  • KunikuKuniku Joined: Posts: 351
    Veserius wrote: »
    you missed the rest of the question.

    MK seems to be the easiest for U2/sting juggles, but you have to use hk on some characters after stomp.

    Ah ok, so can be character specific then? Seeing as at the moment its just for charge training purposes, could you suggest a character that is MK? Once I can do it I can then mess around figuring out who is MK and who is HK etc.
  • MalvadiscoMalvadisco Marambio Joined: Posts: 2,967
    Kuniku wrote: »
    can you do HK Scramble to Spiral Arrow to AA U2?

    you cant do that combo tho
    CARACOLES
  • KunikuKuniku Joined: Posts: 351
    Malvadisco wrote: »
    Kuniku wrote: »
    can you do HK Scramble to Spiral Arrow to AA U2?

    you cant do that combo tho

    But someone said in the corner?
  • KunikuKuniku Joined: Posts: 351
    would explain why I've been struggling then xD
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