USF4 Tier List Thread (updated October 2015)

m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
edited October 2015 in Ultra Street Fighter IV
This thread is meant to discuss and post tier information for Ultra Street Fighter 4.

Updates:
-Added 1.04 Top 10 Characters by Nemo (10/31/2015)
-Added 1.04 tier list by Momochi (3/1/2015)
-Added Pre-EVO 2014 tier list by Daigo, Bonchan, Momochi, Tokido, Kazunoko, and Itabashi Zangief (7/6/2014)
-Added Daigo's discussion from August Arcadia Magazine, circa June 2014 (6/30/2014)
-Added Alioune's Tier list, circa June 2014 (6/17/2014)
-Added Mago's and Kokujin's early opinions, circa June 2014 (6/17/2014)
-Added early arcade build (pre-console) impressions, circa April-May 2014 (6/17/2014)

What is a tier list?

A tier list is a method of ranking and grouping characters based on who has the most/least advantaged matches. Historically, this has been done through a matchup chart where, given two players of equal skill, each character plays every other character in a set of 10 games, and see who wins most. So in a "6-4" matchup, one character would win 6 games, and the other would win 4.

Tier lists are subjective and evolve over time. The point of this thread is to discuss this information.


What tier lists aren't:

-A popularity list
-A list of characters YOU have a hard time against
-A personal assessment on what kind of person/player you are
-In stone


As long as you at least understand what these lists aren't, you will save yourself a lot of headache.

All the tier lists here come from "organized" sources. These are neither my list nor Joe Blow random's. If you know of an organized tier list that should be here that is missing, please let me know and I'll add it.
Post edited by m16ghost on
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Comments

  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    edited October 2015
    Nemo's USF4 v1.04 Top 10 Characters circa October 2015
    Unknown if order matters within tiers:
    SS: Evil Ryu, Elena
    S: Rolento, Ken, Seth
    A: Ibuki, Sagat, Akuma, Adon, Yun

    source: Nemo's Twitter

    Momochi's USF4 v1.04 Tier List circa March 2015
    Unknown if order matters within tiers.
    A+: Evil Ryu, Akuma
    A: Ibuki, Seth, Ken
    B+: Yun, Rolento, Cammy, Fei Long, Poison
    B: Sagat, Yang, El Fuerte, C. Viper, Juri, Adon, Dudley, Dee Jay, Rose
    C: Everyone else
    D : Hakan, Dan

    source: Arcadia Magazine, via Eventhubs

    *****Previous Patch Versions*****

    Daigo, Bonchan, Momochi, Tokido, Kazunoko, and Itabashi Zangief's Pre-EVO 2014 Tier List circa July 2014
    Within tiers, order does not matter.

    S: Yun
    AAA: Cammy, Fei Long
    AA: Evil Ryu, Juri
    A: Adon, C. Viper, Ibuki, Makoto
    B: Abel, Akuma, Balrog, Dhalsim, Dudley, Ken, M. Bison, Rose, Rufus, Seth, T. Hawk, Vega, Yang, Zangief
    C+: Sagat
    C: Blanka, Chun-Li, Cody, Decapre, El Fuerte, Gen, Gouken, Guile, Guy, Oni, Poison, Ryu, Sakura
    C-: E. Honda
    D: Dan, Dee Jay, Elena, Hakan, Hugo, Rolento

    source: 4Gamers.com, translation courtesy of Zhi.


    Alioune's Tier List, circa June 2014
    Within tiers, order slightly matters.

    S: Yun, Evil Ryu, C.Viper
    S-: Juri, Akuma, Adon, Yang, Cammy
    A+: Makoto, Rose, Balrog, Ryu, Seth, Ibuki
    A: Poison, Oni, Sakura, Rufus, Ken, Fei Long
    B+: T.Hawk, Decapre, Gen, M. Bison, Sagat
    B: Gouken, Chun-Li, Guile, Vega, Zangief, Abel, Elena, Rolento
    C: Cody, Dudley, Blanka, El-Fuerte, E. Honda, Guy, Hugo
    D: Dee Jay, Hakan, Dan, Dhalsim

    source: Alioune's Twitter
    Post edited by m16ghost on
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    edited June 2014
    Various Top Player Discussions on Character Strengths
    Daigo via August Arcadia Magazine, circa June 2014:
    Summary:
    Top Tier: Yun

    Next top 10 characters: Cammy, Fei Long, Dudley, Ibuki, Adon, Evil Ryu, Makoto, Adon, Juri, Rufus(?), C. Viper

    "Unlike AE, Yun has no direct challenger to rival his strength in Ultra and is thus in a class of his own."
    source: Zhi's twitter

    "Viper also top 10. E Ryu can fight top tier such as Cammy and Fei, but he has tough matchups against some mid tier char, contrary to Ryu."
    source: Zhi's twitter

    "[Akuma] and Rose also formidable. Sagat is weak character. Adon and Rose's defense has improved. Ken is mid tier"
    source: Zhi's instagram/twitter
    Top 10 (excluding Yun)source: Arcadia Magazine, via Zhi's Instagram. Translation courtesy of Zhi.


    Mago and Kokujin, circa June 2014:
    Stream commenter: Is Nuki's Evil Ryu strong?

    Kokujin: It was. Really strong. Or perhaps I should say that Evil Ryu in general is really strong.

    Personally I feel that Evil Ryu and Yun are probably the two strongest characters in Ultra Street Fighter 4.

    And Juri would come right after that.

    Mago: I feel that for various reasons that Yun, Fei Long and Cammy are all very strong.

    Kokujin: Ah, that's certain right. Fei Long and Cammy as well. Cammy in particular is very strong as usual.

    Chun-Li, on the other hand, is definitely weak in this version. Chun-Li's weak right, Mago?

    Mago: In the first place she never made top 10. So it's quite sad for her to be even weaker in this version.

    As for C. Viper, she was amongst the top 5 in the previous version, but it seems that her position has fallen a little in this one.

    Kokujin: Sure, but even so, she's still incredibly strong, right? Viper would easily make top 10, as expected.

    Mago: Well, sure, but the ranking part is just mostly as a figure-of-speech though.

    Kokujin: Well, yeah, of course.

    Ah, Abel's pretty strong in this version too, no? Juri'd make it into top 10... Adon, too! Adon's pretty strong in this one.

    As for Dudley, I think he wouldn't make it in. He's probably in the mid-tiers.

    Mago: Although Abel has gotten stronger here, he's got more bad match-ups than Zangief so there's that.

    Kokujin: I see.

    Mago: As for Dudley, I'm not too sure about that. At first I thought he'd make it [into top 10], but then again, even though he has strong damage potential he's also got a number of bad match-ups, so it's hard to judge.

    Kokujin: Exactly. Actually he was like that in 3rd Strike too. Dudley as a character is strong, sure, but he also has too many bad match-ups.

    Mago: Ah, Ken would probably make it into top 10, I think.

    Kokujin: Right, Ken's strong too. [After some more thinking,] Dudley definitely isn't part of the top 10.

    Mago: Vega is pretty strong too. A lot of people have been saying that he feels like a character who can go toe-to-toe with the higher tiers.

    Stream commenter: Okay, now how about who'd make it into the top 20 strongest?

    Kokujin: But if we were to go into that, we'd all just come to the conclusion that in the end, everyone has become a strong character now, so the game's gotten quite interesting.

    But honestly though, if Yun wasn't in the game, the game would be a whole lot more interesting (laughs).

    Or rather, that's what everyone is saying. I'm not someone who can play Yun though, and that's why I'm sticking to Dudley.

    Unexpectedly, the advantage/disadvantage on block for Yun's dive kick makes it really hard to use. When I tried playing him, I thought he was really hard to pick up, although I've only played him for maybe 2 or 3 days.

    Mago: Yun is strong, but not an unbeatable character.

    Kokujin: True. But if you don't use a strong character, fighting against Yun can be a tough time, I think.

    Mago: Well, if it's Chun-Li then the match-up would be so unfavourable it practically becomes a game of luck. Against Yun, there are a lot of such characters.

    Kokujin: Right, it'd be tough for those kinds of characters.

    Stream commenter: Yun's command grab has been weakened, so I'll let it slide.

    Kokujin: Right, the command grab. It's the same for Yang and Fei Long though. Hey Mago, how bad does combo damage scaling hurt this move?

    Mago: There are still ways in which it could be useful, but the problem is that the return-on-risk isn't as high, and it's more susceptible to getting interrupted too.

    source: Teisei Sokuhou, translation courtesy of Eventhubs

    Ultra SF4 Arcade Build Early Impressions Part 1:
    Kazunoko
    "[Seth has no future.]"

    Uryo
    "Sakura's long Tatsu combo doesn't work on some characters anymore, and also weak. This is bad. Did I drop the combo? I hope so. Is it because her hitbox or opponents' hitbox? Need more time to verify."

    KSK
    "I couldn't win with Hugo. I didn't see anyone won too. This's like hard mode."
    "It seems Abel becomes stronger."

    Bon-chan
    "No one used Elena. But I know you all really want to! (laugh)"
    "Yun is now in higher tier."
    "Sagat is strong as expected."
    "Tiger Cannon is lame"

    R (commentator and Guy player)
    "Playing Guy becomes fun again."

    Acqua
    "Yang gets better."
    "Cammy is still strong."

    Amiyu
    "Gen is still doing ok."

    Reiketsu
    "(Claw)'s adjustments barely keep me interested"

    Kindevu
    "All I can hear from the cabinets is Condor Spire. Hawk OP?"

    source: http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2014/04/usf4-day-1-japanese-players-impressions.html

    Ultra SF4 Arcade Build Early Impressions Part 2:
    Kazunoko
    "Umehara-san's (nesica) card (registered player name) became 「ウメハラ (「Umehara) (^^;)

    *Someone took his alias so Umehara had put 「 in front of his name.

    Bon-chan
    "Was using Evil Ryu and met a Rolento player who rolled me entire match. Was about to go and look at his face after I lost but then he came to me and said good game. It's [hint at Kazunoko]. That makes sense.

    Kazunoko
    "[I wonder who did such terrible thing to Bon-chan!]"

    Acqua
    "I wish the developers had put more time on Elena."
    "I think Evil Ryu is strongest among Dougi characters (characters in judo uniform such as Ryu or Ken). He lost okizeme but still has raw power"
    "It's still tough for Yang to be top tier."

    Tsukimiya (Guy player)
    "If I meet Guy users, I'd use Ryu, Akuma, Yun, Zangief, and Honda."

    Several players
    [Complaint about button malfunction such as pushed (normal) Focus but Red Focus came out]

    Uryo
    "I even lost to CPU Hawk."

    Wao
    "Condor Spire!"

    Tonpy (Viper player)
    "Condor Condor Condor Spire!"

    Itabashi Zangief
    "Too bad, I did 0 Spire today. I want to do around 1,000 Spires tomorrow."

    source: http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2014/04/usf4-japanese-players-impressions-2.html

    Ultra SF4 Arcade Build Early Impressions Part 3:
    TKD (Former El Fuerte player, now playing Chun Li)

    "Has advantage over Chun Li: Yun, Blanka, Guile, Yang, Viper, Ibuki, Rufus, Rose"
    "But Yun, Blanka, Guile are Chun's worst enemies."
    "(Chun Li) To use Ultra Double against: Ryu, Ken, Chun Li, Dhalsim, Seth, Akuma, Gouken, DJ"
    "(Chun Li) To use U1: Sagat, Rose, Guile"
    "Tier list

    Strong
    Cammy, Guy, Ibuki, Hawk, Chun Li, Evil Ryu, Adon, Sagat, Yun, Yang

    Fairly Strong
    Ryu, Akuma, Rose, Viper, Makoto, Sakura

    Average
    Other

    Weak
    El Fuerte, Elena

    Super Weak
    Hugo"


    Kazunoko

    "Perhaps because of Seth's zoom punch buff. It makes fighting Fei Long fun."
    "I couldn't keep my (nesica) player name so I registered 「Kazunoko. (^_^;)" *To match with 「Umehara


    Wao

    "They should add some downside to delayed wake-up because it (DWU) makes game slow and lose sense of urgency."


    Dogura (Dictator player)

    "Rolento is fun. Rolento makes USF4 fun. Rolento is the Light that guides us. (Saying this while rolling)"


    Tonpy (Viper player)

    "I couldn't win Nemo's Rolento....!"


    Nemo

    "I'm getting used to Rolento. But all he does is rolling anyway. \(^o^)/ "

    source: http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2014/04/usf4-japanese-players-impressions-3.html

    Ultra SF4 Arcade Build Early Impressions Part 4:
    TKD (former El Fuerte player) *note that he plays at Shinjuku Taito Station (same as Umehara) which has the highest level competition in the country

    S
    Sagat, Fei Long, Cammy

    A+
    Yun, Juri, Adon, Viper, Guy, Rolento

    A
    Chun Li, Rose, Yang, Evil Ryu, Boxer, Ibuki

    B+
    Ryu, Akuma, Gouken, Hawk, Guile, Sakura

    B
    Everyone else

    Z Warrior (Dragon Ball Z reference)
    Hugo


    Uryo

    "Sakura becomes harder to play. No significant improvement. Footsie is necessary. And you can't drop a combo now."


    Kazunoko

    "Umehara-san changing his alias...." (his alias became Umehara, (with comma) breaking the tie with 「Kazunoko)
    "I think Yun has quite advantage over Sakura."
    "Kindevu using Hawk now?"
    "Please don't nerf Rolento's rolls! Though it's better if they do (laugh)"
    "Yun now requires more of meter management in USF4."
    "When a Hugo challenges me, my first thought is choosing by mistake?"


    Reiketsu (Claw player)

    "Umehara-san's Hugo repeatedly lost to my Izuna loop and still continued with smile. His love of Hugo knows no bounds. I'm terribly sorry for doing this."
    "Umehara-san's Ryu still kills me (Claw) with just Hado and MK."


    Desora (Gouken player)

    "They should charge only 50 yen for playing Hugo." (average Japanese arcades charge 100 yen a credit)


    Koji KOG (Hawk player)

    "Haitani-san was filming when I won Dogura-san's Rolento by just doing Condor Spire. Then I realized and kneeled down and said to him (Haitani) 'Please don't upload this. If Capcom finds out Hawk'll get nerfed to death!' It was uploaded anyway."


    Wao
    (Moaning about Delayed Wakeup but we say let's listen to someone else who don't random Ultra and expect opponent not to block)

    source: http://beastnote.blogspot.com/2014/05/usf4-japanese-players-impressions-4.html
    Post edited by m16ghost on
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    edited June 2014
    Tier List FAQ

    It's too early to create a tier list! The game hasn't even been out for (X Days/Months/Years)
    To reiterate, tier lists are subjective and evolve over time. In the beginning, everything is going to be up in the air, and that's okay. There are actually a few reasons for creating this thread early:
    a) It's interesting to see how people's opinions of characters change over time.
    b) People are inevitably going to want to discuss the topic, so might as well control it from the beginning.

    I'm not an expert player. Can I post in this thread?
    Of course! Any opinion is welcome. In fact, the skill level of the posters here varies greatly, anywhere from beginner-level to the occasional International-tournament placing competitor. If you're a true newbie getting a grasp on the game, you may need to check out http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/newbie-saikyo-dojo first, but otherwise as long as you simply enjoy discussing matchups, feel free to post.

    This forum is filled with stream monsters and groupthink
    This is a public forum for people interested in fighting games. Statistically, the vast majority of people here are not going to be the best players in the world. It's just the nature of the beast.

    Ranking characters by adding up their matchup points is so naive. Everyone knows that you're much more likely to face (character X) in a tournament than (character Y).
    Yes it is naive. The problem with weighing characters based on tournament popularity is it adds a whole other degree of uncertainty about the results. How do you quantify which characters are popular and which are not? Will they vary by region/country? How do you decide between the weights between a character you're "almost certainly" going to see in a tournament, and three or four characters you only "might" see? In fact, creating a "tournament tier list" is what most people think of at first, but it has its own set of issues to deal with.

    The handy thing about a matchup chart is that it gives you data to reshuffle characters however you want based on how popular you think certain characters are. So if you believe a good matchup against Ryu is much more handy than a good matchup against Dan, then have at it.

    You're free to discuss tournament viability though.

    You guys are sleeping on (Character X)! / (Character X) is ranked too low
    Great. Tier lists are actually the most interesting when a low-tier character shoots up because of some hidden potential. Care to explain why they're being slept on?

    (Character X) is ranked too high!
    Similar to the answer above. Why do you believe they're ranked too high?

    These are my top N characters.
    Cool. Need reasons. Also, discussion of matchups is helpful.

    LOL. Tier lists are so dumb.
    You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Any game with meaningful/non-trivial differences between characters will naturally cause some to be better than others. Many people enjoy discussing these differences, and hence this thread.

    More/moar like tear lists (LOL/amirite?)
    Yup.

    Other notes of interest:
    Most people appear to be biased against their main characters, underrating their matchups, or saying they're not as good as other people think they are. There are a few possible reasons for this:
    -They know their character inside and out actually know the difference between a solid strategies/actual mixups vs. gimmicks that work against people unfamiliar with the matchup.
    -It's a psychological option-select against bragging and then getting exposed.

    WIP. There may be other frequent questions that come up. I'll post them as they come up/as people remind me.
    Post edited by m16ghost on
  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,820
    I doubt cammy will be top tier still. In fact I highly doubt fei, sagat and cammy are s tier.
  • bypostmanbypostman Joined: Posts: 2,207
    I doubt cammy will be top tier still.

    Why?
  • MachoRhombusMachoRhombus Joined: Posts: 2,850
    Ibuki is going to be a bigger threat than Yun, calling it.
    CFN ID - PenguinShivers

    MJ|Shivers.
  • LethirosLethiros Joined: Posts: 115
    Not top tier but capable of dealing with the top tiers: Vega
  • PoombyBearPoombyBear Based Bear Joined: Posts: 36
    Lethiros wrote: »
    Not top tier but capable of dealing with the top tiers: Vega

    Now that he has some invincibility on his EX ST yesssss :D. Thank you based capcom <3

  • TeriosTerios Where do you want me to break you first? Joined: Posts: 1,675
    Where have you been?

    Vega

    • Crouching HP active frames increased by 2 (2F → 4F)
    • Close Stand MK hitstun increased by 2 frames (+2F → +4F)
    • Vertical Jump LK can cross up the opponents
    • Mask Pick-up from ground is now a command, 2+PP when standing over the mask
    • L, M, H and EX Rolling Crystal Flash charge time reduced by 10 frames (60F → 50F)
    • M Rolling Crystal Flash → EX Focus Cancel → Forward Dash advantage on block increased by 3 frames (0F → +3F)
    • Flying Barcelona Special (Super Combo) now has an attack added during the motion to the wall, does 100 damage; Rolling Izuna Drop damage 100*100*100; gauge consumption timing changed from when Vega reaches the wall to at the time of activation
    • Bloody High Claw (UC1) forward charge attack’s hitbox expanded to match the EX Barcelona drop
    • Splendid Claw (UC2) start-up reduced by 1 frame (8F → 7F)

    Ibuki is going to be a bigger threat than Yun, calling it.
    People underestimate her already. She already had a good game outside vortex. Then they buffed it cause "she's dead without vortex guys. For reals" I'm sure most people are aware of this by now. Given she can adjust midjump for dwu I'd say dwu might actually benefit her more than it hurts her. How fucked is that? lol
    Rashiidoooooooo!
  • LegendarTyranLegendarTyran Joined: Posts: 92
    edited June 2014
    I doubt cammy will be top tier still.



    The character gets a crazy amount of nerfs and all when it comes to damage, also getting a lot less stun now. Even when it comes to pokes some of them are still bad. Overall though if you see a Cammy player chances are they'll either be really good or really shit. I'd say it would still be S tier, just not an easy S tier such as Sagat.
    Some of my USF4 videos





    Best Street Fighter theme song.
  • VolcanicAkuma55VolcanicAkuma55 Joined: Posts: 1,991
    lets have a moment of silence for the AE 2012 Tier List, which passed away in its sleep *cough* *was murdered by Trouble Brewing* *cough* a few hours ago...
    SF main: Akuma
    not wannabe, GUNNA BE pro. just need more practice.
    FIX AKUMA AND GOUKEN'S MUSIC IN USF4. WE DONT NEED 3 VERSIONS OF RYU'S THEME
  • KlunkerKlunker w00t Joined: Posts: 105
    Woot
    SF5 - Raaashhidoo, Vega, Fang
    Hitbox ftw
  • Time pantsTime pants Maybe Evil Ryu is just misunderstood? Joined: Posts: 446
    I'm not sure that this game is going to have more compressed tiers like a lot of people have been calling. I think that the tier rankings are going to be a lot more disparate as people start playing this game and stop acting like it's the same as 2012.
  • TeriosTerios Where do you want me to break you first? Joined: Posts: 1,675
    edited June 2014
    Speaking of Akuma I think he's gonna come out still top 10. That hp thing is pretty big and I'm sure he can change his vortex stuff on reaction. "Losing" os demon off palm kinda sucks for him.

    Edit: I guess he can just not do it if he reacts to the technical message. Lol
    Rashiidoooooooo!
  • ugo_2uugo_2u Joined: Posts: 3,592
    so I am going to be sneaking around looking for Gen tiers.
    ssf4ae v2012 tutorial archive http://www.padstickgaming.com/
    Footsie Guide by Maj PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30414642/footsie guide.pdf
    Follow me on Twitter @ugo_2u
  • 3SJ3SJ Vote Gary Johnson for The President of the United States Joined: Posts: 346
    Until some major tourneys are played with on the final USF4 game then you cannot realistically have a tier list. USF4 not even 3 months old.

    You make a tier list when good players win or lose in major tournaments with them.
    Characters that consistently struggle in high level play is low/bottom tier.
    Characters that hold their own in high level play and win consistently are high/top tier.

    Its that simple.
    More socially liberal than the Democrats and more fiscally conservative than the Republicans.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 PRAISED BEEF Joined: Posts: 54,562 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Your favorite character is not good enough.

    ANIME IS DA WAY.  Anime EVO Takeover 2018.  No more CAPCPOM!  There will be oki and there will be setplay


  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,772 mod
    I could make a semi-automated match-up chart for the game, but I've a feeling no one will really use it anyway.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 12,436
    edited June 2014
    3SJ wrote: »
    Until some major tourneys are played with on the final USF4 game then you cannot realistically have a tier list. USF4 not even 3 months old.

    You make a tier list when good players win or lose in major tournaments with them.
    Characters players that consistently struggle in high level play is low/bottom tier.
    Characters players that hold their own in high level play and win consistently are high/top tier.

    Its that simple.

    Character strength is not dictated by results. An amazing player can take a mediocre character and consistently get great results with them. that doesn't mean the character's tools are strong. It's something alioune and I were discussing before and he believes it to an extreme even more than I do.
    http://ink-gaming.com/ono/doku.php The new home of the Ono Tool official wiki.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,123
    yeah, im not even going to post in here until.........

    dammit.

    well played tier thread, well played
  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    Eternal wrote: »
    3SJ wrote: »
    Until some major tourneys are played with on the final USF4 game then you cannot realistically have a tier list. USF4 not even 3 months old.

    You make a tier list when good players win or lose in major tournaments with them.
    Characters players that consistently struggle in high level play is low/bottom tier.
    Characters players that hold their own in high level play and win consistently are high/top tier.

    Its that simple.

    Character strength is not dictated by results. An amazing player can take a mediocre character and consistently get great results with them. that doesn't mean the character's tools are strong. It's something alioune and I were discussing before and he believes it to an extreme even more than I do.

    I think that given a few years, you'll see the best characters rise to the top; there's enough players chomping at the bit to get that to happen.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,741
    Tiers do not change.

    The only thing that changes is human understanding and perception.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,772 mod
    If anybody's willing to try making an actual match-up chart somewhere down the line, I've already made the template on Google Docs that automatically calculates the figures.

    https://drive.google.com/previewtemplate?id=0AlpWyNEiiBMndFNvWC1FbkxQX044Wkg2UGdTQ2gtTUE&mode=public
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    EmblemLord wrote: »
    Tiers do not change.

    The only thing that changes is human understanding and perception.

    I know what you're trying to get at, and I see your point. But even if there is "one true tier list", referring to everything as "current estimates of the tier list" is too wordy.
  • dav3ybdav3yb Quarter Man Joined: Posts: 1,119
    At this early point I think most discussions should focus on where a character is moving on the tier list compared to SSF4. Some will be obvious, but others might not.
  • jebopjebop Joined: Posts: 6,890
    Hakan #2 lol on EH, nice trolling.
    Making man children cry on this forum is way too easy.
  • AngerusAngerus To headbutt or not to headbutt? Joined: Posts: 829
    Honda dropped like a sack of shit all of a sudden on their list. Bottom 3, goddamn EH!
  • OilforthewinOilforthewin BETTER RED THAN DEAD. Joined: Posts: 1,847
    Angerus wrote: »
    Honda dropped like a sack of shit all of a sudden on their list. Bottom 3, goddamn EH!
    Sagat was for a while even at bottom 2.

    I guess that having many fans is helpful at this list.
    "LAST WEEK ON MONDAY NIGHT NITRO, EVERYBODY SEE THE MOST HORRIFIC INJURY IN THE HISTORY OF DIS SPORTS, AND I GOT LISTEN TO YOU TWO IDIOTS SAYIN IT'S A FREAK ACCIDENT! WELL WHAT HAPPEN IS SID VICIOUS RAN INTO THE FREAK. SEE SID VICIOUS CAME OFF THE TOP ROPE, HE HIT DA MASSIVE CHEST OF THE GENETIC FREAK, AND HE FELT DA POWER, AND DAT POWER, SENT HIS LEG DOWN TO THE MAT, SHATTERED HIS LEG, AND HIS DREAMS, OF EVER BECOMIN' WORLD CHAMPYEN AGAIN! SO SID VICIOUS, I'M SEND YOU A PRESENT! I'M SEND YOU THESE TWO PRO- JABRONIES TO LAY NEXT TO YOU IN Y'ALL CAN TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING! YA CAN TALK ABOUT ME, DA MAN WHO SENT CHOO THERE! BUT SID VICIOUS, I DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, BECAUSE I GAVE YOU FAIR WARNING, TO WALK AWAY! JUST LIKE I WARNED STING, JUST LIKE I WARNED BOOKER T, AND NOW, KEVIN NASH, I'M WARNIN' YOU, BEFORE YOU SSS- DECIDE TO SHOW UP AT SUPERBRAWL, YOU THINK ABOUT DIS! I'M BIG POPPA PUMP, I DON'T FRAKE IT, I BREAK IT!"
  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 2,689
    edited June 2014
    PR Rog must be streaming because E.Ryu only has 4 bad match ups? lol


  • TeriosTerios Where do you want me to break you first? Joined: Posts: 1,675
    Since there's no real way of figuring the tiers for real just now yeah I guess. Gonna put matchup numbers already. Especially with the new characters. Crazy.
    Rashiidoooooooo!
  • NevermoreNevermore Scrubby in disguise. Joined: Posts: 1,194
    edited June 2014
    Expect Rolento's matchups to be completely polarizing. He so far seems to be someone who either runs away with the matches, or gets completely trashed thanks to his non existent wakeup game. He's freer than free.
    What the hell am I reading on that Eventhubs "voting" list anyway? Do you just randomly upvote characters into the position you assume they should be in or something? Lists like that are completely irrelevant.
  • HighlandfireballHighlandfireball Are you ready for a war? Joined: Posts: 8,299
    I can see this list taking much longer to fine tune than the others because even though it's only the first few days, people generally are not using the new game mechanics at all from my brief experience. I'd say now that there are so many options with not only wake up but meter, folk are getting a bit flooded with choice.

    It's going to take a while for the DWU to be ingrained in general play.
  • GooseMooseGooseMoose Joined: Posts: 99
    Calling it now, bottom 5:

    5. Dhalsim
    4. El Fuerte
    3. Elena
    2. Dan
    1. Deejay
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,123
    edited June 2014
    Why is Elena bad?

    She's amazingly dominant at neutral, and her slide goes like 3/4 screen and under fireballs

    And even if she can't slide her focus is going to absorb and crumple from like close to half screen
    Post edited by HNIC Mike on
  • CalDW19940CalDW19940 Joined: Posts: 102
    GooseMoose wrote: »
    Calling it now, bottom 5:

    5. Dhalsim
    4. El Fuerte
    3. Elena
    2. Dan
    1. Deejay

    A. Way too early to say.

    B. Sim still has a stupidly good time against Grapplers so I doubt he'll be that low.

    C. Lack of Hugo (lol poor Hugo) :V
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 732
    edited June 2014
    I don't get why people are calling Elena bad. The high level matches I've seen with her she's seemed really solid, slippery and tricky to deal with. She has a nice high/low mix-up game and her punishes do huge damage as well.
  • TeriosTerios Where do you want me to break you first? Joined: Posts: 1,675
    She seems okay if inconsistent. Stuff like cr.lk cr.lp cr.mp will just drop on crouchers I've heard which kinda hurts her. Maybe there's something I don't know. I imagine it's because she's different so scrubs try her for 3 minutes and think she's bad.
    Rashiidoooooooo!
  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,668
    Elena is a hot mess to both at as and against. Not a fan at all.
    CFN: SpitefulBanette
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,129
    edited June 2014
    I really really really really wish Elena was bottom 5, but alas that's not the case.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,123
    Welp we'll see what Justin does with her. Is it a good character or is it iron fist part 2?

    I get the idea that she is supposed to be all neutral w/overheads and lows and focus. She should basically never jump at all, and her damage combos and specials outside of ex mallet and combo ender dps are all a bonus
  • blackaddeblackadde Don't let me down! Joined: Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    justin can make anyone look good. he could place in majors with deejay if he wanted to. being above average at neutral is great, but why bother if there are characters that are either better at it (chun, rose) or simply invalidate that approach (yun, viper)?


    i'm really interested to see how he does at evo vs. people who are used to her spacing and know how to punish her normals/specials properly. you can't win a major with 50 damage overheads and no scary low option.
    The Rindoukan Bible: A Makoto Guidebook - http://otersi.com/rindoukan/
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