USF4 Tier List Thread (updated October 2015)

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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,349
    edited June 2014
    Why is Elena bad?

    She's amazingly dominant at neutral, and her slide goes like 3/4 screen and under fireballs

    And even if she can't slide her focus is going to absorb and crumple from like close to half screen
    Post edited by HNIC Mike on
  • CalDW19940CalDW19940 Joined: Posts: 102
    GooseMoose wrote: »
    Calling it now, bottom 5:

    5. Dhalsim
    4. El Fuerte
    3. Elena
    2. Dan
    1. Deejay

    A. Way too early to say.

    B. Sim still has a stupidly good time against Grapplers so I doubt he'll be that low.

    C. Lack of Hugo (lol poor Hugo) :V
  • HeavensCloudHeavensCloud Joined: Posts: 780
    edited June 2014
    I don't get why people are calling Elena bad. The high level matches I've seen with her she's seemed really solid, slippery and tricky to deal with. She has a nice high/low mix-up game and her punishes do huge damage as well.
  • TeriosTerios Where do you want me to break you first? Joined: Posts: 1,675
    She seems okay if inconsistent. Stuff like cr.lk cr.lp cr.mp will just drop on crouchers I've heard which kinda hurts her. Maybe there's something I don't know. I imagine it's because she's different so scrubs try her for 3 minutes and think she's bad.
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  • Killer_JigglypuffKiller_Jigglypuff Trying really hard Joined: Posts: 7,762
    Elena is a hot mess to both at as and against. Not a fan at all.
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  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,165
    edited June 2014
    I really really really really wish Elena was bottom 5, but alas that's not the case.
  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,349
    Welp we'll see what Justin does with her. Is it a good character or is it iron fist part 2?

    I get the idea that she is supposed to be all neutral w/overheads and lows and focus. She should basically never jump at all, and her damage combos and specials outside of ex mallet and combo ender dps are all a bonus
  • blackaddeblackadde Don't let me down! Joined: Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    justin can make anyone look good. he could place in majors with deejay if he wanted to. being above average at neutral is great, but why bother if there are characters that are either better at it (chun, rose) or simply invalidate that approach (yun, viper)?


    i'm really interested to see how he does at evo vs. people who are used to her spacing and know how to punish her normals/specials properly. you can't win a major with 50 damage overheads and no scary low option.
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,349
    I dunno. Maybe you're right. That's why I'm saying wait and see.

    Kazunoko makes her look really good too for what its worth
  • blackaddeblackadde Don't let me down! Joined: Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    wasn't that all pre-console? she got quite a few nerfs since arcade release.
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  • Bryanv2Bryanv2 BryanJ Joined: Posts: 1,646
    Im just surprised I haven't ran into an army of Decapres, E. Ryu's, Yuns yet. Still same old Ryu picks lol
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  • lostweaponlostweapon Shoto Scrub Joined: Posts: 98
    Bryanv2 wrote: »
    Im just surprised I haven't ran into an army of Decapres, E. Ryu's, Yuns yet. Still same old Ryu picks lol

    ive seen alot of yuns and evil ryus although most of the evil ryus i fought were being played like ryu
  • onemiconemic FGC scrub Joined: Posts: 460
    blackadde wrote: »
    wasn't that all pre-console? she got quite a few nerfs since arcade release.

    It was. I'm pretty sure almost all of the jpn players that mained her pre console are dropping her.


  • OilforthewinOilforthewin BETTER RED THAN DEAD. Joined: Posts: 1,847
    edited June 2014
    So Elena has a 4f CR LK, which is +3 on hit? lol. And it is not chainable, wow. Her CR LP is a 3f move.
    Also her frame data tells me that she looks quite unsafe tbh.

    I should have looked into the frame data first and also some training mode practice, before playing against her.
    "LAST WEEK ON MONDAY NIGHT NITRO, EVERYBODY SEE THE MOST HORRIFIC INJURY IN THE HISTORY OF DIS SPORTS, AND I GOT LISTEN TO YOU TWO IDIOTS SAYIN IT'S A FREAK ACCIDENT! WELL WHAT HAPPEN IS SID VICIOUS RAN INTO THE FREAK. SEE SID VICIOUS CAME OFF THE TOP ROPE, HE HIT DA MASSIVE CHEST OF THE GENETIC FREAK, AND HE FELT DA POWER, AND DAT POWER, SENT HIS LEG DOWN TO THE MAT, SHATTERED HIS LEG, AND HIS DREAMS, OF EVER BECOMIN' WORLD CHAMPYEN AGAIN! SO SID VICIOUS, I'M SEND YOU A PRESENT! I'M SEND YOU THESE TWO PRO- JABRONIES TO LAY NEXT TO YOU IN Y'ALL CAN TALK ABOUT THE SAME THING! YA CAN TALK ABOUT ME, DA MAN WHO SENT CHOO THERE! BUT SID VICIOUS, I DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, BECAUSE I GAVE YOU FAIR WARNING, TO WALK AWAY! JUST LIKE I WARNED STING, JUST LIKE I WARNED BOOKER T, AND NOW, KEVIN NASH, I'M WARNIN' YOU, BEFORE YOU SSS- DECIDE TO SHOW UP AT SUPERBRAWL, YOU THINK ABOUT DIS! I'M BIG POPPA PUMP, I DON'T FRAKE IT, I BREAK IT!"
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    Is Rufus/Blanka still horrible for rufus?
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  • onemiconemic FGC scrub Joined: Posts: 460
    edited June 2014
    So Elena has a 4f CR LK, which is +3 on hit? lol. And it is not chainable, wow. Her CR LP is a 3f move.
    Also her frame data tells me that she looks quite unsafe tbh.

    I should have looked into the frame data first and also some training mode practice, before playing against her.

    Yup her most basic BnB consists of two 1 frame links, one of which is an unplinkable jab link. Elena's adv right now is that many don't know what's safe and what's not against her, and when to look out for EX mallet. when they realize that literally everything she does is unsafe and punishable, including most of her normals and that her EX mallet is pretty easily telegraphed due to her terrible low game,(you honestly dont really have to watch for lows against her at all) she'll be blown up pretty free.

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,776 mod
    Hugo is numbah wun

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,491
    Is Rufus/Blanka still horrible for rufus?

    can still unblockable rufus, but not all of the unblockables work still.

    Blanka still wins neutral IMO. They both do more damage.
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  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 497
    How is Elena's b. hk? is it safe on block? In 3s it particularly useful for baiting throws and going over lows if timed right. I figured this would be made into a useful tool just like in 3s.
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  • blackaddeblackadde Don't let me down! Joined: Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 2014
    b.hk (round arch) goes over lows pretty reliably. shoto c.mk whiffs entirely under it and gets hit. presumably (haven't tested) you can combo on counterhit since it's usually +1 on hit, plus you're airborne for most frames. 0 on block.

    problem is that you have to be reallllllly close to hit with it, and it starts slow (13f). it actually has a great hitbox, but sf4 isn't like 3s; everyone's always mashing jabs fishing for damage. seems like a good way to beat slower crouch techs at least.
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  • GooseMooseGooseMoose Joined: Posts: 99
    It's because people don't know she's actually unsafe on most of her offense that people think she's good.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Get some shill in yo system Joined: Posts: 56,776 mod
    edited June 2014
    In 3S her b+HK was airborne on like frame 1 so she could kill throw games easily with it. I'm sure they figured that would be cheap in this game.

    Ain't nothin, Capcom's ruthless still producin.  Cut em a check or find yoself toothless.  Keep it shill with no confusin.  Niggas say I'm shill...they ain't hard I can prove it YEEEAH


  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,719 mod
    blackadde wrote: »
    justin can make anyone look good. he could place in majors with deejay if he wanted to. being above average at neutral is great, but why bother if there are characters that are either better at it (chun, rose) or simply invalidate that approach (yun, viper)?
    Sounds like 3rd Strike all over again.

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  • TheFreshPrinceTheFreshPrince Sold so many chickens think I work for Kroger Joined: Posts: 3,725
    I hate Elenaa because people just do the fucking dash dances all day like they're playing Makoto and shit. Like wtf, no one wants to see that.
    You just can't handle the fresh prince.

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  • Lance3rdLance3rd Alaska 3rd Strike Joined: Posts: 986
    edited June 2014
    Elena was better against divekick offense in 3s than Chun. Back roundhouse seriously shut down a lot of divekick angles or post divekick options. is that intact with her at all in ultra?
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,719 mod
    Lance3rd wrote: »
    Elena was better against divekick offense in 3s than Chun. Back roundhouse seriously shut down a lot of divekick angles or post divekick options. is that intact with her at all in ultra?
    Yeah, but aside from that, if you wanted to play a ranged spacing/poking character in 3S, you were better off with Chun.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
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  • fourthchamberfourthchamber Joined: Posts: 14
    I'm curious to see how Rolento does after all the nerfs. Nothing really stands out about him anymore, and losing both of his good reversal tools completely neuters his defense. Nemo also didn't seem to thrilled about the changes on his twitter.
  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 12,436
    I'm curious to see how Rolento does after all the nerfs. Nothing really stands out about him anymore, and losing both of his good reversal tools completely neuters his defense. Nemo also didn't seem to thrilled about the changes on his twitter.

    His offense still seems solid but yeah I agree, I think they did go a bit overboard because he was doing so well. However characters with his design are going to do very well early on until everyone figures them out. Sort of like how high execution characters always falter early on and grapplers do well.
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  • LinebeckLinebeck Joined: Posts: 43
    Fei Long is still a beast, just sayin.
  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 2,689
    I think Elena was designed to have the worst time with Ken...
  • Dannyboi 1988Dannyboi 1988 Joined: Posts: 21
    I think makoto is gonna be top tier
  • AniMoneyAniMoney CFN ID: Airman Joined: Posts: 970
    The following are my inital impressions and are probably way off just like everyone elses, but here goes..

    Balrog is mostly the same FWIW. If the meta is more footsie based like capcom wanted he should improve slightly in the tiers, but I have a feeling it won't be they way capcom intended. He still has no mixups and is totally free on wakeup to guys like Akuma.

    I think Elena sucks. Her best attribute is her wonky hitbox.

    Hugo has some crazy lopsided matchups right now imo, I know grapplers often do but this guy takes it to the extreme. Some matchups he gets totally kept out, and others he can do no wrong.

    Poison and Rolento seem like decent mid-tier characters but I don't know a ton about them yet. Not really sure how Poison will end up being played, she doesn't have an obvious niche imo. Kind of reminds me of Gouken.

    Decapre seems pretty good but I have no idea how her matchups will be. Her mixups are good, her ultras are good, normals are fine, seeing as they're mostly cammy's. A lot of people still aren't playing her right and doing a lot of unsafe stuff, her jab hands move seems good and she has air mobility which is always nice. I have no idea if her reversal is legit or if it's easily stuffable like Flash Kick.

    Cammy is still good, not top 3 good, but still relevant. Low short nerf not as bad as I thought, but DWU hurts her. She won't get nearly as many dizzys anymore.

    Fei and Akuma are still amazing.

    E.Ryu was already really good and I think he's even better now.

    Gief seems better, the greenhand buffs are very useful and RFC will be a big part of his gameplan. The s.mp nerf is minor, it's still an amazing button. Not sure if people will play W-ultra with him but it's a good option to have nonetheless.

    Guy's pressure is improved, I'm judging this mostly of what I saw on WNF and NLBC. I think he'll be a tournament contender now.

    Dee Jay needs a gun. He is ass.

    T.hawk is better but I'm not sure where he'll end up in the tiers. Grapplers are so matchup reliant so I can't predict.

    Sim is mostly the same, although he does have better punish combos so he gets a little more damage. Still going to be free to certain rushdown characters but DWU will help him. Still low-tier.

    I really have no idea about Ken and Ryu, they seem mostly the same from the matches I played.

    I think Makoto and Juri are both really good and we'll see them contend in tournaments once people catch on. Right now there aren't a lot of good players with these two characters.

    Sakura will (still) be top 10, the tatsu nerfs she got don't really affect her much but her far s.hp being cancellable is a big addition. Her stun is lower though so she won't be able to just explode with a few bars like she could in 2012. Seems capcom wanted to get rid of all the easy stuns we were seeing in the last game, too bad they gave everyone new opportunities with RFC.

    Yun seems really good just like everyone else seems to think. Not sure about Yang yet.

    Honda ex HHS changes are nice, makes for some easier big damage combos, but the headbutt changes are awful. Low tier again I would guess.
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  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited June 2014
    I'm curious to see how Rolento does after all the nerfs. Nothing really stands out about him anymore, and losing both of his good reversal tools completely neuters his defense. Nemo also didn't seem to thrilled about the changes on his twitter.

    Rolento is garbage in the console release. He has some okay normals but gets rushed down for free.

    -He has no wakeup move at all. They took out the invincibility on his ex backroll and ex patriot circle. PPP has no range, easy to see and punish. ex mekong delta escape would be a great reversal but keep reading.

    -mekong delta escape is useless. You can barely control where he hands and he'll always land within your opponents distance. It is called mekong delta escape yet he is launching himself back into enemy territory. You can't even play a runaway game anymore because this move is so useless.

    -he has slow movement, crappy dashes, mediocre damage. No reversal wouldn't be the end of the world but he can't even weave in and out of opponents attack range. Walk speed, back rolls are super slow. Same with his dashes and they cover no distance. His damage mainly comes from patriot circle combos but since its multi hit, it gets scaled down quickly should you go for fadcs.

    -deceptive normals. Standing mp was a great anti air but they chopped the active frames in half. Now he doesn't have an anti air which doesn't trade. His jumping hp active frames got slashed in half too making it whiff despite the animation. C.hk is also extremely unsafe on block. The first quarter of his pipe on his c.hp has no hitbox.

    In a nutshell he has no reversal, has no mobility nor his signature runaway game, doesn't have the damage and fraudulent specials and normals.
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  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 12,436
    edited June 2014
    AniMoney wrote: »
    Sakura will (still) be top 10, the tatsu nerfs she got don't really affect her much but her far s.hp being cancellable is a big addition. Her stun is lower though so she won't be able to just explode with a few bars like she could in 2012. Seems capcom wanted to get rid of all the easy stuns we were seeing in the last game, too bad they gave everyone new opportunities with RFC.

    Her stun was untouched. If ANYTHING her stun was BUFFED.
    Distance traveled by opponent travels after a back throw has been reduced
    Close MP pushback on hit reduced
    Far Standing MP hitbox slightly expanded forward
    Far standing HP now Special-, EX Focus-, EX Red Focus- and Super Combo-cancellable
    Diagonal Jump HP hurtbox slightly increased
    All versions of Air Shunpukyaku trajectory changed on activation
    EX Shunpukyaku advantage on block reduced by 2 frames (+4F → +2F); made easier to connect on crouching opponents
    All versions of Shouoken hitbox slightly expanded forward
    EX Sakura Otoshi earliest timing for additional attacks reduced by 3 frames (15F → 12F)
    Shinku Hadoken (UC2) rear hitbox removed

    That's her change list.

    Because her far HP is now bufferable and it does 200 stun she actually can do higher stun damage combos from mid screen than before with crMK if she chooses to use far HP (it IS an 8F normal). Also it means that she can do her fireball setup and then hit with farHP instead of crMK (since she spaces it to be meaty she is + enough on hit to combo to far HP) and buffer it to Shouoken.
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  • AniMoneyAniMoney CFN ID: Airman Joined: Posts: 970
    Eternal wrote: »
    Her stun was untouched. If ANYTHING her stun was BUFFED.

    For some reason I thought they nerfed it, maybe they did in the arcade one but reverted it? Idk thanks for the correction though.
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  • EternalEternal unpleasable perfectionist Joined: Posts: 12,436
    AniMoney wrote: »
    Eternal wrote: »
    Her stun was untouched. If ANYTHING her stun was BUFFED.

    For some reason I thought they nerfed it, maybe they did in the arcade one but reverted it? Idk thanks for the correction though.

    Nope. Sakura, Viper, and Ibuki have basically been riding the gravy train to buff city since day 1. Very minor nerfs given how strong they already are while also getting noticeably useful buffs like far HP / viper's crMK / Ibuki's walk speed and free juggle state TCs
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  • HNIC MikeHNIC Mike Joined: Posts: 10,349
    call me crazy, but i think fei long is better in this version than he was before
  • NooctaNoocta Didja see that ? Joined: Posts: 2,418
    His damage is really good, but the -5 Rekka nerf seems pretty big.
    Stuff like DP fadc chicken wing 3 hits > Ultra 3 hits are pretty good tho.
    Makoto / Yun / Viper
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