Who is what tier?

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  • ThisGuileKillYaThisGuileKillYa SSS++++ tier at exaggeration Joined: Posts: 2,627
    Hey graham, I'm intrigued by what you're saying about old Guile, so ive been messing with him. The stand short stuff is nice, but what else are you doing with him since he does seem to have all the fun advancing stuff(outside stand forward) that new guile has. basically, what's your O guile gameplan outside of having a nice new aa? (feel free to put this in the guile thread in stead of here, makes no diff to me tho)

    PS. congrats on your and your brothers' performances at evo! I heard a lot about you guys from Neil (cigarbob), who's a friend of mine and always made fun of me for being a "pad scrub." Did you guys plug in some 'trollers at evo or go strictly stickly?
    USF4: Still soul searching. Thus far... Yun, Chun, and Akuma.
    UMvC3 mains: Morrigan Doom Vergil, Magneto Doom Ammy, Morrigan Doom Magneto
    UMvC3 fer funsies: Dante Vergil-or-Dorm Magneto, Wesker Sent Hawkeye, Dante-or-Magneto Doom Vergil, Wolvie Doom-or-Sent Akuma, Nova Doom Ammy, Magneto Doom-or-Sent Dante, Wesker Dorm Magneto, Dante Strange Magneto
    MvC3: Dante Magneto Sentinel
    MvC2: Spiral Cable Sentinel ST: Chunny Bunny. 3S: Akuma, Ryu, Dudley. Vampire: Fish, BBHood
    UMK3: Kabal, H.Smoke, Jax, almost everyone. Chess: 1. c4
  • FSgamerFSgamer Cheap Tactics!!! Joined: Posts: 1,315
    Graham wrote:
    say the matches and ill try my best to answer with my opinion on the matter.
    Guile vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
    Ryu vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
    FSgamer aka FS7 --- Cheap Tactics for the Win ---

    random CvS2 player
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Guile vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
    Ryu vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
    What I can say is that O. Sagat is gonna give them both a ton of trouble. He's O. Sagat. He's a bad match-up for like everybody except Dhalsim and Boxer.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    Guile vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat
    Ryu vs Dhalsim/Boxer/O. Sagat

    Guile vs Sim, You play the most patient game you've ever played, throwing sonic booms only in counter to the yoga fire, do alot of blocking, low forwards when he approaches close, occasionally you will have to jump and kick early with forward when he does a yoga fire to catch up since he can out-fireball you, from full screen sometimes you can do a prediction jump vs a yoga fire and roundhouse him, other than that, block alot.

    Guile vs Boxer, low forwards to keep him out, and sonic boom of course, its a very textbook match for guile.

    Guile vs O.sagat, this is a hard one, youll have to jump straight up alot over fireballs, use the standing forward without pressing toward or away to go over low fireballs on occasion, and use the toward or back+forward knee when you meet sagats low fireballs with your sonic boom and are close enough to knee him.

    Ryu vs Dhalsim, alot of styles to play this match, i prefer the daigo method, dl some of his vids, he jumps away and does hurricanes till super is charged then approaches and uses it when your opponent either does a yoga fire or low limbs, once you knock down sim, use the mixup on his get-ups, thats either the overhead punch into low roundhouse, or low forward into red fireball knockdown.

    Ryu vs Boxer, tough match im not sure how to win it, i dont play ryu enough.

    Ryu vs O.Sagat same
  • Se7inSe7in Holler. Joined: Posts: 590
    I know when I play against Boxer with Ryu, you want to spam c. forward a lot to interrupt Boxer's dashes. Fireballing him helps a little, but there's lot's of ways he can punish you. A lot of winning in this match goes to spamming DP's and c. forwards. If you can constantly push him back and keep momentum in your favor, you got it.
  • GrahamGraham Joined: Posts: 571
    I know when I play against Boxer with Ryu, you want to spam c. forward a lot to interrupt Boxer's dashes. Fireballing him helps a little, but there's lot's of ways he can punish you. A lot of winning in this match goes to spamming DP's and c. forwards. If you can constantly push him back and keep momentum in your favor, you got it.

    till he bops you with a low strong into low dash punch when ytou miss a dp, or a low dash on missed low forwards, but id replace the dp with short hurricane kick, not as punishable
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,418
    What happened to that link to the Japanese site that had the Matchup ranking for all SF2 games?
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Do you mean T-Akiba's site?

    It's still around, but the rankings are not accurate...

    http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagrama.html
    http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/diagramb.html
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,418
    Yeah...that's the one.

    But what's wrong with the rankings? Not I would doubt if it wasn't 100% correct, but are there any gross inaccuracies?
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Actually, it looks like he updated it since the last time I saw it. The top tier is pretty accurate except for the mysterious inclusion of DeeJay...
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i dont understand japanese, can you help me encode the chart?
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • DeskDesk ハイパー・ディーサイド・デスク Joined: Posts: 705
    This was taken from the match up chart (win/lose, X/O)

    1 akuma
    2 O sagat, Sim
    4 Claw
    5 Boxer
    6 O sim
    7 Deejay
    8 O Claw, Guile
    10 Ryu, Sagat
    12 0 Guile, Chun
    14 O Chun
    15 O boxer
    16 Honda
    17 Blanka
    18 O ryu
    19 Fei, Dic
    21 O ken, O Honda
    23 O deejay
    24 O fei, Ken
    26 Cammy, O Cammy, O Dic
    29 Hawk, O Hawk
    31 Geif,
    32 O Gief, O Blanka


    I'm pretty sure thats right. I'll edit if I got anything wrong
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    is this the tier list?
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Yeh, but seems really weird to me. He has Deejay at 7th, but O.Deejay at 23rd, while at the same time ST chun is at 12th and O.Chun at 13th. The differences from old to new for the these characters are basically the same, super, techs and a reversal antiair kicks, but such a massive rank increase for Deejay but not for Chun. Why are Ken and especially Dic so low in the rankings. Also isn't O.Hawk suprerior to ST Hawk, but why same rank? Also why is guile ranked as high as he is... But the rest of the list looks alot more plausible.
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,249 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    yeah, dictator bison is wayy too low.
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Blanka is better than Dic and Ken.

    Go Blanka! lol
  • Spirited_AwaySpirited_Away Joined: Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is the only ST ranking with O.versions, we need to check each match-up to actually realize why some top characters are lower in this ranking.

    But still the top 10 are about right (maybe except N.Sagat), Deejay plays well against many characters and everything with him is easy combos, crossups and high priority on most of his crouching attacks (low strong, low fierce are almost unbeatable).

    O.Hawk is not by a chance superior ! he just has better crossups and some moves have a wider hit box but any match up that's bad for N.Hawk is also bad for O.Hawk.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This is the only ST ranking with O.versions, we need to check each match-up to actually realize why some top characters are lower in this ranking.

    But still the top 10 are about right (maybe except N.Sagat), Deejay plays well against many characters and everything with him is easy combos, crossups and high priority on most of his crouching attacks (low strong, low fierce are almost unbeatable).

    O.Hawk is not by a chance superior ! he just has better crossups and some moves have a wider hit box but any match up that's bad for N.Hawk is also bad for O.Hawk.

    So explain the o.Deejay thing for me, almost exactly the same as ST Deejay when it comes to normals and combos, so why such a huge rank difference between them?

    Also having those better normals for o.hawk, minus his super and ability to tech should make some matches easier for him, so he should be a slightly higher rank.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    There may be more than meets the eye with the old characters. For example, O.DeeJay's Machine Gun Upper is completely invincible, and O.Chun's far st.Strong (arguably N.Chun's best normal) can't hit characters that are ducking (see NKI Volume IX for example).

    I'm not saying those two reasons alone justify the rankings, but don't just assume that old characters simply lose super, tech hits, and maybe a special move.

    I'm gonna wait until I see Toutanki's O.Hawk before I make a judgement on which Hawk is better, but I have a hunch it's N.Hawk. That super just does tooooo much damage.
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm just curious why theres such a huge rank difference between Deejay and o.deejay.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I can't read Japanese, so could anyone decode all of those other charts please... and what are they for...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm gonna wait until I see Toutanki's O.Hawk before I make a judgement on which Hawk is better, but I have a hunch it's N.Hawk. That super just does tooooo much damage.
    I would personally say Old is a better overall character than New - his normals are hella better and so is his DP which, IMO, is far more important than his Super.

    Then again, I suppose you could go off the theory of "can you land the Super consistantly? If yes, use New, if no, use Old".
    I'm just curious why theres such a huge rank difference between Deejay and o.deejay.
    Off the top of my head O. Deejay loses the easy to abuse, monster crossover j. MK, his projectile has slightly more recovery time, having no upkicks kinda sucks since it is a decent anti-air which can lead into free Super... there really isn't any reason to use Old over New unless you totally love the MGU.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    I can't read Japanese, so could anyone decode all of those other charts please... and what are they for...
    http://nki.combovideos.com/ST
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • LuvMyCapLuvMyCap Joined: Posts: 158
    when you guys said old, does it mean any old street fighter or there is a specific old street fighter for each character? Or the one before the last street fighter?
    On the Streets of GGPO.
  • polaritypolarity I'M BACK BITCHES Joined: Posts: 1,841
    when you guys said old, does it mean any old street fighter or there is a specific old street fighter for each character? Or the one before the last street fighter?

    what
  • LuvMyCapLuvMyCap Joined: Posts: 158
    my bad, i mean when you guys said old ken or old guile, which version you mean.
    On the Streets of GGPO.
  • felinekifelineki Joined: Posts: 981
    We're referring only to Super Turbo here. "Old" refers to the special modes that can be selected in ST by inputting a code at the character select screen. These "old" characters play mostly like they did in SSF2, but there are a few small differences.
    "The Hammer Bros. Suit was more broken than O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto put together." -specs

    "I always thought that O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto were just aspects of the Hammer Bros. Suit, broken down in several pieces in order to keep the universe from breaking." -Wellman
  • CBCB Joined: Posts: 2,840
    i thought boxer was the best???????
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Boxer isn't as braindead easy to use as O. Sagat, and Boxer doesn't create as many bad match-ups. Some of the cast literally can't do anything against O. Sagat.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • I.M.X.I.M.X. Joined: Posts: 10
    Tier List from Japan

    1. AKUMA (GOUKI)
    2. OLD SAGAT / DHALSIM
    3. VEGA
    4. BALROG
    5. DEE JAY
    6. OLD VEGA
    7. GUILE
    8. OLD DHALSIM
    9. CHUN-LI
    10. OLD CHUN-LI
    11. RYU
    12. SAGAT
    13. OLD BALROG
    14. OLD GUILE
    15. EDMOND HONDA
    16. OLD EDMOND HONDA
    17. BLANKA
    18. OLD RYU
    19. MIKE BISON
    20. OLD KEN
    21. FEI-LONG
    22. CAMMY / OLD CAMMY
    23. OLD FEI-LONG
    24. OLD MIKE BISON
    25. OLD DEE JAY / KEN
    26. OLD THUNDER HAWK
    27. THUNDER HAWK
    28. ZANGIEF
    29. OLD ZANGIEF
    30. OLD BLANKA

    A mate of mines gave me this tier list ages ago, and it looks very accurate. Theres a chance the list may have changed in the last few years
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For DJ being ranked so highly, it's not very often you see him in Jpn tourneys. I thought he was more represented in US play?

    Are there any standout japanese DJ players?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I wonder if it's time to lift the Akuma ban for Evo. I'm a little tired of seeing him high in rankings and no videos/results to back it up. Who's with me?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I wonder if it's time to lift the Akuma ban for Evo. I'm a little tired of seeing him high in rankings and no videos/results to back it up. Who's with me?

    There's a reason why he's banned, it's because he's broken. If we were to lift the ban on Akuma, everyone would use him (if you want a fighting chance of winning).
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Whenever someone tries to say that Akuma isn't broken because he always loses in tourneys, they fail to mention the fact that the person playing him is almost always complete trash.
    The guy is broke, plain and simple. To a point where it ruins the game. Granted, I feel the same way about O. Sagat, but at least you can do 'something' about tiger shots. Can't do shit against air fireballs with a lot of characters really, and god help you if you he gets you in the corner.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • C/J/FC/J/F Red Dragon Edition Joined: Posts: 365
    Old DeeJay is a horrible character. ST DeeJay will deal massive damage from a multiple blade kick juggle if you jump at him. O.DeeJay has a 2 pixel damage one hit antiair machine gun. It really sucks - just try using him and you'll just give up in disgust. His fireball also got a serious upgrade. It's bigger and faster. So he connects with more of them (due to their speed and size) and can actually zone you effectively and play like Guile with the threat of a very damaging blade kick.
    SF4: Sagat
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