How much does your arcade stick lag? Arcade stick input lag testing & results thread

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  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    edited February 3
    Darksakul wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    If we had the number of ties, we could calculate relative timing differences...

    Stop, stop, just stop. That testing methodology does not allow for millisecond timings.
    All you can do is comparative results.

    Assigning any timed results from VS testing is a fallacy. You are asking for a metric the testing never took into consideration.
    With VS testing you also have to factor in a controller interfering with the results of the other.
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    I don't know how many trials would be needed for 0.01ms accuracy or what the margin of error is for 100 and 500 trials.
    You don't. This kind of testing does not and will not give ms results. All that would happen with more testing cycles is you have more accurate VS results.
    All you have is what one controller does better than the other on average, not their latency in ms. You can test a billion times with each controller and never have accurate ms results as time was never a metric that was measured. All that being tested for is Win, Lost and Tied, that is it.

    So using one testing methodology we get DS4 wired average response being 14.2ms versus 3.2 msec (plus two full frames of animation) for wireless, a difference of 11ms on average.



    If the ability to convert from ms to trials is correct, we would expect there to be 11/16.66 = 66% of the time the wireless DS4 should win.




    Using a different testing method, we test wired DS4 versus wireless DS4, seeing how quickly they respond to down inputs



    70 times the wireless DS4 beats the wired DS4 out of 112 trials. Now six times there was a dropped input, so if we remove those trials, converting from trials to ms gives u 70/106 = 66% of the time the wireless DS4 beats the wired DS4.



    Seems pretty conclusive to me that you can use number of trials as a way to determine the difference in speed between sticks.

    Happy to explain any of the above in further detail if you need me to.

    Edit - added quote to make it clearer who I'm responding to.

    Post edited by noodalls on
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 3
    @Darksakul I fail to understand why you say that. In any case, in the tests my friend and I did:

    1. The LPT switch is 3.0667ms faster than HRAP VX SA Kai;
    2. Brook UFB in PS4 mode is 4.2 ms faster than Atrox;
    3. Atrox is essentially equal to HRAP VX SA Kai;

    So... LPT = VxSaKai - 3.0667; BrookUfbPs4 = Atrox - 4.2; Atrox = VxSaKai.

    The math says LPT = Atrox - 3.0667, so BrookUfbPs4 should be (LPT + 3.0667) - 4.2, right?

    4. Brook UFB in PS4 mode is 1.2ms faster than the LPT switch.

    Given items 1, 2 and 3, item 4 makes me think the math is pretty supportive... (separate experiments reached the same conclusion)
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    I'm going to try to write an analogy that explains why my thinking and Darksakul differ. This analogy is only for input lag, I have another idea for polling rate but I won't complicate things for now.

    Me and my buddy work together. We figure we'll catch a movie together, shift ends at 4pm, movie is at 4:17 with another at 4:33 if we miss the first one. Now, I have a car that can get me to the theatre in 1 minute. My buddy wants to walk, which will take him 5 minutes. I offer him a lift, but he's adamant that given work finishes at 4pm he'll still make it in time.

    So with this setup, both of us are going to make the movie. This is where we agree, so long as we finish at 4pm, we'll be seeing the same movie session.

    But, as we all know, work doesn't always finish exactly on time. Let's pretend (and this is pushing the analogy a bit) that work finishes any time between 4:00 and 4:16, and any given day we have no idea when it's going to finish. Let's pretend we see a movie a week for the whole year, with work finishing randomly between those time. I'm fine, even if work finishes at 4:16, I'm still going to make it. But my buddy won't make it if he finishes at 4:13 or later.
    Does not matter if both your inputs land in the same frame, if two inputs occur in the same frame they are treated as same-time inputs. The game engine does not care if one stick is 0.1ms faster or 16ms faster as long as both inputs land in the same frame. This frame is a single frame of animation at 60 FPS is 16.66 ms.

    See this is the thing. I completely agree that so long as we both arrive by 4:17 we can see the same session. But, if we leave at 4:13,4:14,4:15 or 4:16 my buddy will be turning up too late to the movie., and will be seeing the next session. So long as we both leave at 4:00 every time 1 minute and 5 minutes makes no difference, if it's randomly distributed you can't count on it.
  • hyperheavywinghyperheavywing Joined: Posts: 25
    I am very curious how XB1 Atrox will stack up
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 6
    Unless it's significantly better than the Brook UFB in XboxOne mode, it will still lose to the Brook UFB in PS4 and PS3 modes. It could still be excellent. I usually prefer to use my Brook UFB in XboxOne mode because of the XInput support provided by the driver. :P
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    I am very curious how XB1 Atrox will stack up

    Funny is the past XB1 Mad Catz and Hori controllers do not act as actual XB1 controllers and instead as specialized controllers. Hence the issues with triggers with XB1 Arcade sticks on PC.
    Not all fighting games or even Xbox One games in general will recognize a XB1 Arcade controller. The XB1 DOA game is an example how XB1 sticks wasn't working with the game, prior to a dedicated DOA stick.

    Arcade controllers specifically designed for the PS4 will be recognized by the system and any game (not factoring in any legacy controllers).
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Unless it's significantly better than the Brook UFB in XboxOne mode, it will still lose to the Brook UFB in PS4 and PS3 modes. It could still be excellent. I usually prefer to use my Brook UFB in XboxOne mode because of the XInput support provided by the driver. :P

    Question is are we speaking of XB1 controllers with the XB1 console or a PC?

    My concern is with the Atrox is Razer's own track record for reliable products that don't break easily.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 6
    Darksakul wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Unless it's significantly better than the Brook UFB in XboxOne mode, it will still lose to the Brook UFB in PS4 and PS3 modes. It could still be excellent. I usually prefer to use my Brook UFB in XboxOne mode because of the XInput support provided by the driver. :P

    Question is are we speaking of XB1 controllers with the XB1 console or a PC?

    The controller PCB shouldn't care, when it comes to the PCB's own individual input lag... AFAIK none of these Arcade controller PCBs has specific PC support, it just so happens PCs usually work with console USB controllers. Well, I suppose the USB polling rate could be different, at most (I imagine it depends on the host driver).


    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    The board does not care, but the system does. And Polling rate means little these days outside of USB Mouses.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well, do you imagine a given PCB could have significantly different input lag when used with a PC instead of an XboxOne? I don't see that happening...
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Well, do you imagine a given PCB could have significantly different input lag when used with a PC instead of an XboxOne? I don't see that happening...
    But the System it self can respond differently. An PC acts differently to a Xbox One Stick than an actual Xbox One.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 7
    Why? How so? I don't imagine a PCB that is fast on a console being slow on the PC or vice-versa... The PCB is the determining factor, the way I see it.
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    Game Engine and even the local machine it self can cause Input lag that has nothing to do with the controller PCB.

    There also how the XB1 sticks dont have working trigger buttons on Windows

    But to you it's all the same

    Ha ha ha
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 7
    I'm referring only to PCB input lag, not input lag derived from factors that have nothing to do with it (e.g., the port of a game being more laggy in a specific platform).

    The only case where I've used XboxOne controllers in Windows is Brook UFB in XboxOne mode. I just tested and the trigger buttons do register along the Z Axis (Game controller properties), as they should.
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    Darksakul wrote: »
    And Polling rate means little these days outside of USB Mouses.

    I just tested Cthulhu's MC with the 1ms firmware versus the 10ms firmware. Over 50% of the time, the 1ms firmware beats the 10ms firmware when the same button is pressed on both controllers at the same time. I have videos to demonstrate this if you need proof, and repeated 100 trials 1p vs 2p and then swapped them around.
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    noodalls wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    And Polling rate means little these days outside of USB Mouses.

    I just tested Cthulhu's MC with the 1ms firmware versus the 10ms firmware. Over 50% of the time, the 1ms firmware beats the 10ms firmware when the same button is pressed on both controllers at the same time. I have videos to demonstrate this if you need proof, and repeated 100 trials 1p vs 2p and then swapped them around.

    I am starting to think you and ShinMagus here is too smart for your own good because my point just went over your head.
    No one disputing a 1ms stick will beat a 10ms stick in match ups. No one disputing the actual findings.

    What I am disputing is for the layman, the everyman, casuals or what ever we call them never has to worry about Polling rate.

    I am also disputing how other people are interpreting these findings and then creating a witch hunt of sorts.
    If you don't see that as a issue then I have to say your both blind to the obvious.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 7
    To an extent I agree (e.g., I wouldn't lose sleep over something 3 or 4 ms slower than the best known PCB), but I can tell you the stock VLX Kuro/Hayabusa PCB is horrifyingly laggy (as in freaking Super Mario World didn't feel quite right; Teyah says it's ~14.8 ms slower than the reference for PS4). I'm very pleased with my switch to the Brook UFB thanks to Jasen's EZMOD PCB. In any case, I appreciate making sure the only reason you lose is the human factor (yourself as a player and your opponent), not hardware deficiencies.
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Does not matter if both your inputs land in the same frame, if two inputs occur in the same frame they are treated as same-time inputs. The game engine does not care if one stick is 0.1ms faster or 16ms faster as long as both inputs land in the same frame. This frame is a single frame of animation at 60 FPS is 16.66 ms.

    Also you have to factor in human response time of (minimum) 256ms on average.

    Also your theory been debunked, people gone on record to win at Evo (every year) with terribly laggy sticks before beating out some of the faster PCBs.
    Darksakul wrote: »
    The board does not care, but the system does. And Polling rate means little these days outside of USB Mouses.
    Darksakul wrote: »

    Far as I am concern high number polling rates only effect Mouses as it effects the accuracy of the optical sensors of the mouse and not the response time. (even ball Mouses use optical encoders with rotary wheels).
    Keyboards is another thing, but unless your a big RTS or Moba competitive players (but not fighters) or a professional typist you would not see the effects.

    As far as most games go, detections and calculations happen on a per frame basis, as long as your inputs are registered in that 16.66 ms window you are fine. Performance is not truly hampered till we get into a frame or more of Lag.

    Yes the faster the controller/ lower the input latency the faster your inputs becomes. But does it really effect game play? Depends. More than 16.66ms Yes, less than 8ms no.
    Darksakul wrote: »

    I am starting to think you and ShinMagus here is too smart for your own good because my point just went over your head.
    No one disputing a 1ms stick will beat a 10ms stick in match ups. No one disputing the actual findings.

    What I am disputing is for the layman, the everyman, casuals or what ever we call them never has to worry about Polling rate.

    I am also disputing how other people are interpreting these findings and then creating a witch hunt of sorts.
    If you don't see that as a issue then I have to say your both blind to the obvious.

    Last quote doesn't quite seem the same as the first three does it.

    So, I have always maintained the same thing. If sticks differ by 1.45ms they will be a frame apart just under 10% of the time. If sticks differ by 11ms 66% and so on. I have never argued that this is the sole factor in determining matchups. People have won Evo with sticks that lag more.

    However, I do think the information should be out there. If someone has saved up $200-$300 to buy a new stick, why shouldn't they be able to make input lag a factor in their purchase decision.

    If someone has bought a stick that turns out to lag more, why shouldn't they know how much buying a Brook UFB is going to change things.

    I feel that with increased testing/research into the area, things have improved significantly. Brook is actively trying to improve their firmware to minimise input lag. My suspicion is they're probably close to as fast as possible at the moment. The latest Hori stick appears to have lower input lag than previous revisions. Aki released an entire new hardware just to deal with input lag.

    I also think we are learning more about why different things contribute to input lag. e.g. polling rate is not something I was aware of until recently. Similarly, the reason the venom stick lags is because it will not respond to button presses less than 10ms, so irrespective of processing time or polling rates it will always be at least 10ms slower. Most other sticks will respond to 1ms long presses if it occurs during the polling window.

    Did anyone know that wired DS4 controllers respond more slowly than wireless? I can find at least 5 threads on the internet where people strongly assert the wireless is slower, but on testing the opposite is true, with perhaps one person already knowing this. Does carrying audio over the usb cause more lag? Some (important) people seem to think it does, and with testing we should be able to confirm or deny this.

    And finally, Hori is actively marketing their new buttons as being faster response time, so they clearly think this is something that their target audience, stick buyers, thinks is important. Now, if the gains of a faster button are completely offset or even reversed by the PCB, why shouldn't people know this?






  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Why? How so? I don't imagine a PCB that is fast on a console being slow on the PC or vice-versa... The PCB is the determining factor, the way I see it.

    Speculating, if times was spent doing security protocols on some systems,
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Well, do you imagine a given PCB could have significantly different input lag when used with a PC instead of an XboxOne? I don't see that happening...

    Not exactly console-PC, but wasn't the whole point of the hardware revision for the AkiPS360+ to improve the x360 input lag? Perhaps security protocols or similar required on one system might not be needed on another, hence improving speed.

  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited March 8
    noodalls wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Why? How so? I don't imagine a PCB that is fast on a console being slow on the PC or vice-versa... The PCB is the determining factor, the way I see it.

    Speculating, if times was spent doing security protocols on some systems,
    If the PCB behaved differently and performed a whole set of extra processing specifically on one of the platforms, yes. I would be surprised though... I assume being connected to a PC has no special consequences on the PCB's side.
    noodalls wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Well, do you imagine a given PCB could have significantly different input lag when used with a PC instead of an XboxOne? I don't see that happening...

    Not exactly console-PC, but wasn't the whole point of the hardware revision for the AkiPS360+ to improve the x360 input lag? Perhaps security protocols or similar required on one system might not be needed on another, hence improving speed.

    The way I see the PS360+ Xbox360 input lag episode, it's a hardware issue that couldn't be fixed via firmware update and happens only in Xbox360 mode, i.e., if it's connected to a PC in Xbox360 mode, it also happens. I could be mistaken, but I would find it odd if PCBs performed differently on the PC (I see PC scenarios as just console controllers that happen to be connected to the PC).

    Post edited by ShinMagus on
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404


    Testing by iplaywinner
    RAZER PANTHERA COUNTER HIT LAG TEST
    by Carlo Dela Cruz/The Phantomnaut

    Game was The King of Fighters XIV using Gang-Il's far standing D. The test was done with a spare input wire connected to both arcade stick's O button. Each stick competing against the Panthera was tested three times in 20-hit sessions (60 hits total).

    Mad Catz Arcade FightStick TE2:
    Test 1: 13 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 7 TE2 counter hits
    Test 2: 17 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 3 TE2 counter hits
    Test 3: 16 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 4 TE2 counter hits
    TOTAL: 46 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 14 TE2 counter hits

    Qanba Crystal:
    Test 1: 15 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 5 Crystal counter hits
    Test 2: 20 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 00 Crystal counter hits
    Test 3: 17 trades, 1 Panthera counter hit, 2 Crystal counter hits
    TOTAL: 52 trades, 1 Panthera counter hit, 7 Crystal counter hits

    Brook Universal Fighting Board (firmware V1.8):
    Test 1: 10 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 10 UFB counter hits
    Test 2: 12 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 8 UFB counter hits
    Test 3: 11 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 9 UFB counter hits
    TOTAL: 33 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 27 UFB counter hits

    Hori Real Arcade Pro V3-SA (Lab Zero legacy driver):
    Test 1: 19 trades, 1 Panthera counter hit, 00 V3 counter hits
    Test 2: 19 trades, 1 Panthera counter hit, 00 V3 counter hits
    Test 3: 17 trades, 3 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3 counter hits
    TOTAL: 55 trades, 5 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3 counter hits

    Hori Real Arcade Pro V3-SA (Brook PS3 to PS4 Super Converter, firmware V2.1):
    Test 1: 10 trades, 10 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3-Brook counter hits
    Test 2: 8 trades, 12 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3-Brook counter hits
    Test 3: 5 trades, 15 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3-Brook counter hits
    TOTAL: 23 trades, 37 Panthera counter hits, 00 V3-Brook counter hits
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,662
    @noodalls Just don't argue with him, he doesn't get why/how statistics works. The only measurement method he'll ever accept as valid is some oscilloscope laboratory or other such nonense.
    Steam:Coffeeling | Fightcade: Coffeeling-FIN
    Xrd: Sol | ST: Claw, O.Sagat, O.Ryu | 3S: Chun-Li, Akuma
    Resource pack for learning fighting games and/or starting KOF13
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 14
    As a player I'd like to get the best possible hardware, at least one that gets in the way as little as possible. Acting like the subject isn't there is silly.

    For example, that's why mice have a ton of factors to care about.
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    As a player I'd like to get the best possible hardware, at least one that gets in the way as little as possible. Acting like the subject isn't there is silly.

    For example, that's why mice have a ton of factors to care about.
    There more than just input latency such as reliability, compatibility, ect.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 14
    Sure, but generally there aren't reliability issues. Compatibility? I don't remember an example other than that old Madcatz FightStick that required a proprietary implementation of USB or something that was only available in Intel chipsets...
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,662
    Darksakul wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    As a player I'd like to get the best possible hardware, at least one that gets in the way as little as possible. Acting like the subject isn't there is silly.

    For example, that's why mice have a ton of factors to care about.
    There more than just input latency such as reliability, compatibility, ect.

    And those get talked about in other threads. This thread is solely about one simple thing, and that is measuring lag. The discussion is, by and large, calm, and people are telling noobs who come in and ask to consider those things.

    That people are stupid and don't think things through doesn't mean that measurements shouldn't be made.
    Steam:Coffeeling | Fightcade: Coffeeling-FIN
    Xrd: Sol | ST: Claw, O.Sagat, O.Ryu | 3S: Chun-Li, Akuma
    Resource pack for learning fighting games and/or starting KOF13
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 22,084
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    Sure, but generally there aren't reliability issues. Compatibility? I don't remember an example other than that old Madcatz FightStick that required a proprietary implementation of USB or something that was only available in Intel chipsets...

    Trust me there is a few than just the old Mad Catz PS3 TE Intel issue. But you wouldn't know because you only care about lag.
    The PS3/Xbox 360 era is filled with weird little PCBs with their own weird quirks. There were plenty of fast PS3 and Xbox 360 PCBs that will die on you with in a week of use, you get 3 months if you are lucky.

    Komatik wrote: »
    Darksakul wrote: »
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    As a player I'd like to get the best possible hardware, at least one that gets in the way as little as possible. Acting like the subject isn't there is silly.

    For example, that's why mice have a ton of factors to care about.
    There more than just input latency such as reliability, compatibility, ect.

    And those get talked about in other threads. This thread is solely about one simple thing, and that is measuring lag. The discussion is, by and large, calm, and people are telling noobs who come in and ask to consider those things.

    That people are stupid and don't think things through doesn't mean that measurements shouldn't be made.


    So the next time some newbie comes in the forums, starts a new thread, necros a dead thread years old, ask in the Questions and answers thread, or on in Hang Outs starts to cry about lag,
    I will make sure to tag you and Magus here and you can deal with the stupidity. Oh and don't just BS them ether with rhetoric ether, it better be sound and practical advice.

    Also your measurements mean nothing if the data is misrepresented like it always has been.
    "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance."
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404


    So, I made a new video, and created a playlist with the two previous videos I had made explaining my input lag testing setup. If there are any questions, fire them back here. Hopefully it makes how I get my data a bit easier to understand.

    Would anyone mind if I made a new thread? My method is fairly different to Teyah's and there are some additional things that it can test. I wouldn't mind it not being on page 26 or a massive thread.
  • WHYCWHYC Joined: Posts: 1
    Can anyone compare input lag test on panthera new firmware ver. vs te2+ plz ?
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404




    RAZER PANTHERA (1.01.00) COUNTER HIT LAG TEST
    by Carlo Dela Cruz/The Phantomnaut

    Game was The King of Fighters XIV using Gang-Il's far standing D. The test was done with a spare input wire connected to both arcade stick's O button. Each stick competing against the Panthera was tested three times in 20-hit sessions (60 hits total).

    Mad Catz Arcade FightStick TE2:
    Test 1: 14 trades, 6 Panthera counter hits, 00 TE2 counter hits
    Test 2: 14 trades, 5 Panthera counter hits, 1 TE2 counter hit
    Test 3: 10 trades, 10 Panthera counter hits, 00 TE2 counter hits
    TOTAL: 38 trades, 21 Panthera counter hits, 1 TE2 counter hit

    Qanba Obsidian:
    Test 1: 14 trades, 6 Panthera counter hits, 00 Obsidian counter hits
    Test 2: 16 trades, 4 Panthera counter hits, 00 Obsidian counter hits
    Test 3: 14 trades, 6 Panthera counter hits, 00 Obsidian counter hits
    TOTAL: 44 trades, 16 Panthera counter hits, 00 Obsidian counter hits

    Brook Universal Fighting Board (firmware V1.8):
    Test 1: 19 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 1 UFB counter hit
    Test 2: 20 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 00 UFB counter hits
    Test 3: 17 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 3 UFB counter hits
    TOTAL: 56 trades, 00 Panthera counter hits, 4 UFB counter hits

  • saikofartsaikofart ex anorak Joined: Posts: 121
    edited March 28
    Hey @noodalls, I have a quick question. Is the Brook UFB the same as the Brook ps4 fightboard? I understand they both have different functions, but do they perform the same on ps4?
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    edited March 28
    saikofart wrote: »
    Hey @noodalls, I have a quick question. Is the Brook UFB the same as the Brook ps4 fightboard? I understand they both have different functions, but do they perform the same on ps4?

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/11230743/#Comment_11230743
  • saikofartsaikofart ex anorak Joined: Posts: 121
    noodalls wrote: »

    Please excuse my ignorance, but is that pretty close? Or, considering I saw there's a few nils at 7 and 8ms, showing missed inputs meaning the UFB is way better?
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    edited March 28
    I'm planning to do a video soon explaining some of the more detailed conclusions that can be drawn from this data. Basically, if the misses occur around the time when it is going from +2F to +3F, you could just assume that they were +3F but just missed the window. From my understanding there is a reason that the UFB doesn't have misses (at least on PS3 and PS4) but it's a bit more complicated than it is worth going into yet.

    There is about 6-7ms difference between them as per this test. My usual explanation is, if you are playing your friend and he has a UFB, and you have the PS3PS4 board, for the times when both push the button at exactly the same time, his input will come out 1F faster just over 35% of the time and at the same time just under 65% of the time (7/16.66). Not the only determining factor in who wins etc. etc.
  • saikofartsaikofart ex anorak Joined: Posts: 121
    noodalls wrote: »
    ...
    There is about 6-7ms difference between them as per this test. ...
    That's not too bad. Thanks for the explanation!
  • TINPOwww4545wwwwTINPOwww4545wwww Nikogel360 Joined: Posts: 6
    I also think that panthera is the best stick among PS4 license sticks as @MarkMan23 says.



    I think it is best to choose updated Panthera.
    Since HAYABUSA can not be purchased outside Japan.
    Shiryl@Nikogel360
  • ThalnosThalnos cherry pie Joined: Posts: 77
    Don't the newer (i.e. pc switch) HRAP4Kai use the same PCB as the Hayabusa 2017? And no way to know now but I also assume the T7 hori sticks will also use the same pcb. Granted the audio port could mean a different pcb with different timings so again, who knows on that.

    Either way, that's really impressive from Razer, awesome to see them try to improve their stick with firmware updates, and what a huge improvement it was.

  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    Thalnos wrote: »
    Don't the newer (i.e. pc switch) HRAP4Kai use the same PCB as the Hayabusa 2017? And no way to know now but I also assume the T7 hori sticks will also use the same pcb. Granted the audio port could mean a different pcb with different timings so again, who knows on that.

    Either way, that's really impressive from Razer, awesome to see them try to improve their stick with firmware updates, and what a huge improvement it was.





    Hori has stated that the new T7 stick will have the same response speed as the 2017 version.
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
  • noodallsnoodalls Joined: Posts: 404
    HRAP N H







  • ShinMagusShinMagus Joined: Posts: 395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    noodalls wrote: »

    That's shocking. Has Nintendo created a system where wired peripherals are "second-class citizens" and undergo extra processing or what? O.o
    Magus
    12000 B.C. - Dark Ages
    "The black wind begins to blow..."
    "Can you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper."
  • StrtFghtrMstrStrtFghtrMstr SRnk1VaBeachAlphaTeam Joined: Posts: 511 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ShinMagus wrote: »
    noodalls wrote: »

    That's shocking. Has Nintendo created a system where wired peripherals are "second-class citizens" and undergo extra processing or what? O.o

    PS4 also the same with the newer DS4's that have an option to be used in wired-mode.
    Just a veteran player enjoying competitive SFV & the CPT
    -Kaillera veteran (GodWeapon Anti3d)
    -SFA3 Replay Tournament Champion (21-0)
    -Sticks & Setups currently owned
    -Namco w/HFC/SilentKuros/SilentHayabusa-Zippys
    -Namco stock
    -VLX 360 w/JLF+Silent Zippy&uSW mod/OBS-MX Reds+Silent O-Rings/Qanba/Seimetsu/PCBs360VX+HFC4, Jansen x5 19MM Turbo Panel
    -VLX 360 Stock
    -TE-S Six-Axis PCB w/ShinJN adapter
    -H2H setups: Zowie RLH2460HT, Asus VX238H-W & Monoprice 8204
  • StrtFghtrMstrStrtFghtrMstr SRnk1VaBeachAlphaTeam Joined: Posts: 511 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thalnos wrote: »
    Either way, that's really impressive from Razer, awesome to see them try to improve their stick with firmware updates, and what a huge improvement it was.

    FWIW The Panther I had tested with more input latency then my Hori pad hacked sticks and even Xbox 360 PCB via a brook sniper w/both the original firmware and updated firmware. I don't have a MCZ TE2 but apparently that's a stick that it's faster then. Lots of Top 64 players in EVO this year were using the stick and brook converters so the difference in input latency can't account for much overall.

    Test result times are in the description:

    Just a veteran player enjoying competitive SFV & the CPT
    -Kaillera veteran (GodWeapon Anti3d)
    -SFA3 Replay Tournament Champion (21-0)
    -Sticks & Setups currently owned
    -Namco w/HFC/SilentKuros/SilentHayabusa-Zippys
    -Namco stock
    -VLX 360 w/JLF+Silent Zippy&uSW mod/OBS-MX Reds+Silent O-Rings/Qanba/Seimetsu/PCBs360VX+HFC4, Jansen x5 19MM Turbo Panel
    -VLX 360 Stock
    -TE-S Six-Axis PCB w/ShinJN adapter
    -H2H setups: Zowie RLH2460HT, Asus VX238H-W & Monoprice 8204
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