Tekken 7 Discussion

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  • NiitrisNiitris Joined: Posts: 212
    edited April 21
    Your original point was "they ripped off stuff from Soulcalibur," because asset sharing has never happened before. Then you go on about "overhauling Tekken" (make throws 1+2 and 1+3, seriously?) with little mind that people actually enjoy the game of hacky sack as is, and don't want it to be some great UFC impersonator. Of course people are gonna find it hard to take you seriously, regardless of what other points you have that may or may not be right.
  • NeverYouMindNeverYouMind Joined: Posts: 410
    edited April 21
    I said they took development assets and I stand by that assertion. The stages I mentioned are not like others in Tekken 7. They have too little in common with Tekken's stages and themes. Also, people like Takuji Kawano (character designer) would no doubt play a key role in Soul Calibur VI development whereas his role in Tekken is secondary at best. Thematically, there is a division between assets included in Tekken 7 and previous Tekkens. It would not be too much of a leap to say that assets from an ongoing project were re-appropriated to save money on assets of the expansion for Tekken 7 (Fated Retribution).

    Considering many fighting games use a single button or button combination for throws and Tekken 4 used 1+3 for positioning with 2+4 and 1+2 for throws the change would not be very drastic. Tekken 7 already allows 1+3 and 2+4 throws to be broken with 1 or 2. Why settle for being mediocre when you can lead the pack (and I don't mean by the process of elimination)? Why settle for being one dimensional when there are so many sub-systems in place? The only possible reason for running in place instead of moving forward is laziness.
  • Da StunnaDa Stunna A True Paradox Joined: Posts: 892
    It makes me sad that Harada brought back a broken capo and no Armor King....
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  • NiitrisNiitris Joined: Posts: 212
    Considering many fighting games use a single button or button combination for throws and Tekken 4 used 1+3 for positioning with 2+4 and 1+2 for throws the change would not be very drastic.

    And then they changed it back because it was silly, like a lot of Tekken 4. Yeah sure some things were nice (walls, side walking) but others were just change for the sake of it (R1F movement, obstacles in the middle of stages). There's no reason to change signature notations outside of the sake of being different. It's not lazy, it's sticking to a fundamental style. If Tekken's movement and general offense were to be overhauled, it would alter the signature fundamentals and flow of the game. Possibly into something that long time fans would drop the game over.

    Ignoring that a universal mount mechanic would alter Tekken into something unrecognizable, way more so than borrowing SFIV's ultras. There isn't anything innovative about taking what made Marduk unique and turning it into a universal move. And would change the way the game is played to the point where you might as well call it a different title. Doesn't matter if the results are successful or not.

    Also what the fuck would Steve look like being a boxer who can tackle and do other MMA shit? lol. Not that I care because video games, but you can't use "authentic martial arts" as an argument, and then advocate that a pure boxer should be able to perform nonsensically-illegal boxing moves.
  • NeverYouMindNeverYouMind Joined: Posts: 410
    edited April 22
    Movement before round start is great and allowed strategic set ups that were more interesting than usual poke or run approach. Since Tekken 4 there has been a less aesthetic and less entertaining alternative to buffer directional inputs at round start. Obstacles in the middle of stages made spacing more important and hiding behind something made the game more comedic. Sidestep was changed from d,d to a simple d tap. Julia Chang's three hit combo df+3, f+1, b, f+2 had a directional input removed. I have not suggested changing inputs for almost anything besides some throws and attacks/strings that use awkward button combinations.

    Tekken already has a universal running tackle with punch flurry for all characters. Marduk is not unique in tackling, only in positioning before tackle. Several characters have throw options after tackle (Nina, Jin, Paul,Dragunov, etc.). The ultras (aka Rage Arts) serve as a heavily telegraphed panic attack for newcomers. Generally it is the rage drives that succeed in turning the tide of battle or extending the final juggle or just pressuring opponent. However, all they do is promote turtling until low parry with juggle follow up. Instead of diversifying viable strategies they just limit them.

    Steve hits the back of the head in a throw, breaks opponent's arms in a throw, punches below the belt, and performs a stand up kick which are all illegal in boxing. Boxers do compete in MMA even if they are usually at a disadvantage with a rulebook and scoring system that favors wrestlers. Steve can tackle and tee off on opponent as can any Tekken character after a running tackle. He could easily perform a lethal neck crank from top position without doing anything uncharacteristic. I am not even talking about universally incorporating half guard or any other positions that were not in Tekken previously. Though the back mount would need some updating too (likely to a lesser degree). Rear naked chokes for all!
    Post edited by NeverYouMind on
  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,411
    I thought you said you were gone lmfao

    your arguments are mostly aesthetics and are trying to justify them into gameplay

    plus tekken 4 was a really poorly desinged game
    its utterly unbalanced and one of the worst tekkens out there

    but its aesthetically pleasing I guess.
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai Goddess Milkshake Joined: Posts: 2,670
    @NeverYouMind

    I don't think you get it. Tekken is Tekken. Virtua Fighter is Virtua Fighter. Both series (along with EVERY OTHER FIGHTING GAME SERIES) will borrow or emulate elements from each other, which can either be unintentional or deliberate. You act as if this is a new concept. This isn't the fucking 90's anymore. Virtua Fighter already has its own identity. What you seem to want is for Tekken become some sort of weird mix of another game that you already enjoy and a goofy MMA simulator (which is the last thing that Japanese-made fighting games need at this point. There is only so far you can go with "realism" in a game like this, especially when you are talking about a fighting game series that is already has a lot of crazy shit going on it, devils, big ass robots, animals, androids, dudes pumping electricity out of their fists, and that's just me getting started). That is the point where Tekken is no longer... Tekken. There is a very good reason why Tekken 4 was problematic at the time of its release, hence why a lot of people went back to TTT1 which also had its own problems but was generally better than Tekken 4 from the competitive perspective. Tekken 5 (Plus, T5DR) was a major improvement when it came out years later. Another thing that you really got to stop is putting too much emphasis on the aesthetics of a game. While the aesthetics do contribute to why some people (even in the competitive fighting game community) do play the game, that is only a secondary concept. What really matters is if the game is functional: Tekken 7 fits the bill perfectly as far as functionality and even the aesthetics go. But, this isn't gamefaqs. This is a competitive fighting game forum. And, this is not a good place to start complaining about juggles (or as you call it "hacky-sack") especially in a game where they have been a part of the series since the very beginning.

    Didn't you say that you were no longer going to associate with anyone here or were you just throwing another hissy fit?
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  • NeverYouMindNeverYouMind Joined: Posts: 410
    edited April 22
    Never said I would be gone, simply that I would be playing Virtua Fighter in place of Tekken 7. Aesthetics do not have to go hand in hand with gameplay, but can be the difference between being memorable or forgettable. Would you still play Tekken if it looked like Tekken 1? I wouldn't. I would however still play Virtua Fighter 10th Anniversary Edition any day of the week for its gameplay design alone. Aesthetics are only one aspect of the whole package.

    Tekken 4's biggest problem was balancing, which goes far beyond mechanics. It needed more time in that respect. The slowed pace, low jab properties, and wall properties were also suspect. It is however far from the worst Tekken. Tekken 1's gameplay is abominable by today's standards. Tekken 2's is comparatively clunky. Tekken 3's balancing is arguably worse. Tekken 4's Jin and Steve are roughly Tekken 3's Ogre tier. Tekken 4's Nina is comparable to Tekken 3's Xiaoyu. HOwever, no character in Tekken 4 is as bad as Tekken 3's Bryan and Kuma. Tekken 4 has nothing on Tekken Tag Tournament's balance, but almost none of the Tekken games do (except Tekken 6 Bloodline Rebellion and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Unlimited though the mechanics are more one dimensional).

    Tekken 5's Steve is much deadlier than 4's Jin. The rest of the balancing for Tekken 5 is roughly comparable. The mechanics for 5 are far more one dimensional in its predominantly run or launch into wall carry juggle then catch opponent during tech roll gameplay style. Movement was too powerful and the newly implemented high crush property was too strong in Tekken 5. Dark Resurrection corrected some of those issues and more making it better than Tekken 4, but given the amount of additional development money and time it only makes sense. Tekken 6 and Tag 2 had much more development and as a result were even more polished.

    I don't think you get it. I only care whether they fit into the game organically without homogenizing the game's offerings. If you think Tobal (a game also designed by Seiichi Ishii) is a MMA simulator I find that quite laughable. I do not believe the elements of a single designer's work are mutually exclusive. Regardless, my suggestions don't veer that far from Tekken's own offerings. Tekken 4 as a game of its own I have already touched on. There are great fighting games that have had no scene and terrible ones that have become a publicity lightning rod.

    This thread is so competetive that the last post with move notations, move properties, or frames excluding my own was two months ago. At most there have been three such posts every page. If you were into Tekken 7 competitively, you would be in the arcades or the competitions. Watching competitive play makes you as competitive as listening to music makes you a composer. Playing Tekken online makes you as much of a competitive Tekken player as playing chess online would make you a Grandmaster. Functionally you could use scissors to mow a lawn but that does not make it a good idea. You are free to enjoy what you like as I am free to enjoy what I like and the same goes for the opposite.
  • NiitrisNiitris Joined: Posts: 212
    edited April 23
    You are free to enjoy what you like as I am free to enjoy what I like and the same goes for the opposite.
    Then why are you still rambling? Does it really upset you that people like this game?

    You already shown that you have a superficial (at best) understanding of the game for suggesting such an asinine idea. I'm not sure where anyone is supposed to be impressed by anything that was just said, as if no one else here knows about the good ole days.
    This thread is so competetive that the last post with move notations, move properties, or frames excluding my own was two months ago. At most there have been three such posts every page.
    lol at deflecting
  • NeverYouMindNeverYouMind Joined: Posts: 410
    edited April 23
    It is hard to take serious anyone that does not know the various sub systems in Tekken or its history. It is the equivalent of boxing someone with blinders or an eyepatch. Individuals have posed questions and I have provided answers. Thinking and questioning preconceived notions does not make one stupid, blind acceptance does.
  • NiitrisNiitris Joined: Posts: 212
    No. You're just upset because people would rather play Juggle Fighter 7 over your silly UFC clone.

    Protip: Tekken could've made your "hypothetical game" way back when if, I don't know, Paul was any indication. They didn't. There's a reason they didn't. It's because giving everyone Paul's command tackle (a grappling move) wasn't the best way to represent Yoshi, Lei, or Ling's martial art. It also would make their gameplay (yeah that little thing) less unique, duh. Your attempts at sounding like an intelligent critic is laughable and borderline pathetic. And the fact that common sense needed to be explained to you is proof of such.

    This really isn't a hard thing to understand, but feel free to continue dodging the point with your faux enlightenment. I sure they'll change the game just how you like it if you post enough.
  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,411
    Lol arguing with him is a crapshoot
    This is the same dude that sited a hwowang tag combo as broken. Hasn't touched 7, complains about asthetics and parses language with simplistic explanations of the game to feint knowledge and or actual experience.
    It's hard to take you serious when you seem to not actually play that much
  • BiolinkBiolink Shenmue 3 will come Joined: Posts: 4,291
    edited April 23
    Geese mothafuckin' Howard!!!!

    Geese HOWARDO Heihachi and Akuma. All the OG bosses of every major fighting series in one game?

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  • DJBLKKZAND94DJBLKKZAND94 DJ/Fighter/Scratcher and Killer Joined: Posts: 154
    Movement before round start is great and allowed strategic set ups that were more interesting than usual poke or run approach. Since Tekken 4 there has been a less aesthetic and less entertaining alternative to buffer directional inputs at round start. Obstacles in the middle of stages made spacing more important and hiding behind something made the game more comedic. Sidestep was changed from d,d to a simple d tap. Julia Chang's three hit combo df+3, f+1, b, f+2 had a directional input removed. I have not suggested changing inputs for almost anything besides some throws and attacks/strings that use awkward button combinations.

    Tekken already has a universal running tackle with punch flurry for all characters. Marduk is not unique in tackling, only in positioning before tackle. Several characters have throw options after tackle (Nina, Jin, Paul,Dragunov, etc.). The ultras (aka Rage Arts) serve as a heavily telegraphed panic attack for newcomers. Generally it is the rage drives that succeed in turning the tide of battle or extending the final juggle or just pressuring opponent. However, all they do is promote turtling until low parry with juggle follow up. Instead of diversifying viable strategies they just limit them.

    Steve hits the back of the head in a throw, breaks opponent's arms in a throw, punches below the belt, and performs a stand up kick which are all illegal in boxing. Boxers do compete in MMA even if they are usually at a disadvantage with a rulebook and scoring system that favors wrestlers. Steve can tackle and tee off on opponent as can any Tekken character after a running tackle. He could easily perform a lethal neck crank from top position without doing anything uncharacteristic. I am not even talking about universally incorporating half guard or any other positions that were not in Tekken previously. Though the back mount would need some updating too (likely to a lesser degree). Rear naked chokes for all!

    Whoa wth buddy theres no need for the female tackles for a example
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  • Sanada-kunSanada-kun Joined: Posts: 645
    Man shit has gotten crazy in here. Can't we all just agree to disagree. @NeverYouMind has his own opinions on what tekken should b as do the rest of us so let's just leave it at that.

    @NeverYouMind Only thing I will say is that you shouldnt assume that just cause competitive talk doesn't go on in this thread much doesnt mean people in here aren't competitive. Most people don't come to shoryuken forums for tekken tech and frame data etc..... there are other places with much more info that most competitive players go to.
  • NeverYouMindNeverYouMind Joined: Posts: 410
    edited April 24
    @Niitris
    I don't care if you can't handle gameplay mechanics branching out. I am far past being upset about Tekken 7. I am at the point of enjoying the sight of the train wreck as it happens and Tekken 7 has never failed to disappoint in that regard.

    Feel free to ignore that every character including Xiaoyu has a running tackle, forward and backward mount animation, and mount strikes as recently as Tekken Tag 2. Feel free to ignore the implementation of similar/identical mechanics and animations in previous games. Also, feel free to ignore me if you can't take the idea of thinking outside the box or historical precedence and context.

    The only thing I am upset about now is Soul Calibur VI being vaporware.

    @p.m novaroad pilot
    Arguing would require choosing a position and supporting it with evidence and providing counterpoints against the opposing position.

    Tekken Tag 2 Killing Hawk: Is a one launch death juggle unbalanced? Considering that an average of two juggles are needed to do the job, I would say so.
    http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2012/1/2/ttt2-killing-hawk-combosetup-cross-counter.html

    I played Tekken 7 at Round 1 in Chicago in the summer of 2015. Ripped the everliving soul out of a spamming Shaheen with Kazuya's old tricks and new b+4 (rising kick move from Devil Jin, which was apparently later removed for whatever reason). Beat down a Katarina player with Law's tried and true. Took the high road with Paul on a Josie player that didn't know how to move, block, or parry lows. Played the worst implemented fighter in Tekken known as Gigas against a crush hopkick happy Claudio twice and never came back. Not even power crush could help that poor excuse for a character. Sidestep was worse than in Tekken Tag 2 and effective movement was practically limited to 2 dimensions (fortunately for you that aspect was later adressed). I played tons of the old Tekkens in the arcades and don't ever remember any of them being so despicably woeful.

    @Great_Dark_Hero
    1. I was unfortunate enough to experience Tekken 7 at the arcade.
    2. I gave Tekken 7 more time than it deserved. For every little detail I found amusing, I found a list of grievances.
    3. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me. I have played enough Tekken since the mid-90s in and out of competition to know when it is not moving forward any longer. It might surprise you, but I actually played nothing but Tekken for years. Didn't know and didn't care whether anything else existed at the time. Branching out helped me see that variety is the spice of life and that there are greener pastures out there.
    4. Advanced placement, actually. Never been in a remedial course. Your comprehension, however, does seem to require remedial English. None of my suggestions would turn Tekken into either Virtua Fighter or an MMA simulator and neither are referenced in the suggestions. As covered in great detail, nearly all suggestions have a precedent. If I need to rephrase that in a way you can understand or you have any further questions please let me know.
    5. Nice demonstration of a hissy fit. I will remember the location of your post if I ever need to quote one.
    6. The upper picture is hilarious! Namco Bandai is so cheap that they use marketing material from Tekken 6 to promote Tekken 7!

    P.S. This discussion has turned into a comedy sketch and I did not even give you any rope to hang yourselves. Those of you that intend to get Tekken 7 on PS4 instead of PS4 Pro should probably be worried about frame stability and netcode about now.
    http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/news/2017/4/22/latest-ps4-tekken-7-footage-shows-noticeable-slowdowns-durin.html
  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,411
    edited April 24
    You really need to give up that post about the killing hawk.
    there are more damaging combos in tekken then that and my team does over that on the regular.
    ill show you my example.


    that combo damage you are showing is something that can be done with other teams.
    and is a little bit higher than a basic b&b they all melt health anyway.
    then some parts of the video you posted are simple ass tech traps.
    hence why the damage is high cause they techrolled and got up the wrong way.
    AKA it isnt a combo.

    other than that I like seven
    you dont for whatever reason i really dont care but you posts are trying to root facts in aesthetics and bashing the game because it doesnt fit your personal schema of what it should be even though you ideas and shown to be misguided and quite frankly bad design a multitude of others here have praised the game and its gameplay
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai Goddess Milkshake Joined: Posts: 2,670
    @NeverYouMind

    Yet you were acting idiotic over Tekken aesthetics not too long ago, which is why most people have a problem with you in the first place. So you're not really in a position to talk to anyone about reading comprehension or hissy-fits when you were acting weird just moments before, accusing Tekken of taking assets from other games (which is what every fucking fighting game does to some degree, especially by ones that were made by the same company. This also is not a new concept either, so I still don't get why you were making a big deal out of this earlier on the last few pages and I am not the only one who called you out on this shit. And, then you have the balls to actually accuse me of making assumptions when you just told me that I don't even go to tournaments for this game or for this series. You are the only one who does not see anything wrong with that either. What I find funny is that you showcase a lot of hatred for this game, yet you still keep wanting to talk about it even after the game mechanics are already set to stone for the most part. Not only that but you even go as far as to try to suggest unnecessary and scrubby changes, essentially trying to make a Tekken game that no longer plays like a Tekken game. You are part of a vocal minority that outright hates the game and keeps suggesting changes for a game to suit yourself either because you suck at it or because you don't like the aesthetics. Then ypu threw a tandrum claiming that everyone here and the developers of Tekken 7 were never going to move forward with their "ass-backward" thinking, becayse they did not agree with you suggestions (all the more funnier, sense we are tslking about "hissy-fits here. Turns out you're not really that much better at all). Fact of the matter is that turning Tekken into whatever game you are trying to make is a bad idea in the long run. If you hate this game so much, then I will ask you again; what is your purpose here? Because, at this point, you are just coming here to bash the game even more and then try to justify it with everyone here while still being an asshole. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as it is an educated one and others can see where you are coming from. But, the shit you say here is just ridiculous. What's worse is that you keep giving everyone else shit on this thread just because they happen to like something that you don't (even if the said product from NamcoBandai is proven to be doing well in terms of popularity even while the game is still in development, otherwise you would not have people going to the tournaments or events for it in the first place. Not entirely sure what your standards of success are and strangely enough, you might not be either). If you are that adamant about Tekken not being the way you want to, then keep your scrubby ass off of this thread.
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  • DiasFoxDiasFox Joined: Posts: 314
    That is some Steam games discussion thread level of "criticism".
  • BeatriceBeatrice Psychopath Joined: Posts: 51 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    looking forward to play this game
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  • appomoappomo uupps Joined: Posts: 2,886
    Beatrice wrote: »
    looking forward to play this game

    tk7fr_kb_item_koi_01.jpg
    me too :D


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