Psychic Force 2012

oldboyoldboy You are a big fool!Joined: Posts: 192
An oddball fighting game if there ever was one. Surprisingly a friend of mine managed to build a small competitive scene of kids looking for something to do with their DCs with it.

I was wondering if anyone else played this game seriously at all?

As well any tier lists or ideas of what the tier list would look like would be appreciated.

I pretty much play Wendy exclusively. She was the character I initially clicked with, but I dabble in Keith.

Here's a take on a possible tier list:

Top- Burn, Setsuna, Might

Middle- Wong, Gates, Keith, Emilio

Lower- Regina, Carlo, Gudeath, Wendy

Shit- Genshin, Patty

I wanna say Gudeath could be a bit higher, but Emilio kicked him out with his arrows and punch punch circle strong.

Anyways, any other players?
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Comments

  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    You know there is a newer one for PS2 right? Im about to get it..I remember this game for Dreamcast...at the beginning...and you know theres other threads about it right?
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • H-F BladeH-F Blade O_O Joined: Posts: 1,045
    I've seen other people play this game but only once. Based on what I remember, it looked really unorthodox compared to the more mainstream fighting games.
    youtube.com/hfblade
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    You know there is a newer one for PS2 right? Im about to get it..I remember this game for Dreamcast...at the beginning...and you know theres other threads about it right?

    I searched and didn't find anything in here about it. There was a few that touched on pf but nothing major that I saw.

    I know there's a newer one for ps2 but considering I don't have a jp or modded ps2 that's not really an option.

    Does anyone know any specifics about the ps2 one? I know they included some of the original pf characters like brad and sonia or whoever. Brad seems interesting. But did they change the way any of the normal characters play?
  • E-bortionE-bortion Jibba Doo Kuroda Joined: Posts: 1,202
    Emilio was a beast. From what I remember it was pretty fun, but really strange. Don't know how deep the gameplay could really be.
    Team Unblockable [#502 Represent]

    There's a winner inside each and every one of us.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Hey when I get the Ps2 version you are more than welcome to come play it..
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Emilio was a beast. From what I remember it was pretty fun, but really strange. Don't know how deep the gameplay could really be.

    It's not 3s or KoF, but it makes up for it with its intensity. It's also one of the few games I've played that's built on mind games and traps. Especially characters like Emilio and Wong.

    The one thing I like about the game is that it's still easy to pick it up and find something you've never seen before. You'll still see the cpu pull something off and wonder if it's possible for a human to do it. And pretty much if you're insane enough, then you can figure it out too.

    Wong's got some especially strange capabilities when using his teleporting swords. A friend of mine figured a way to do three of his sword + daggers attack that link together. It takes extremely difficult timing and probably not plausible in an actual match, but just that it works is exciting nonetheless.
  • N_paulN_paul aka Peaches Joined: Posts: 683
    This game rubbed me the wrong way, it just didn't make any sense. I remember it having a fairly cool meter usage system, but the disc won't read anymore for some reason. I did enjoy the way the environment is setup at least.
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    This game rubbed me the wrong way, it just didn't make any sense. I remember it having a fairly cool meter usage system, but the disc won't read anymore for some reason. I did enjoy the way the environment is setup at least.

    You mean the way the game played didn't make any sense? It did seem funny when you really think about it. The game's more akin to asteroids than street fighter.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Wow. Alot of people don't like this game huh?

    Anyway, my friend and I play this game pretty religously. We are big fans of the series and we both can't wait for Project Psychic to com out for the PS3.

    Well, might as well start contributing to the thread. Some things in your possible tier list are really good and some things just make no sense imo. Not bashing just giving my thoughts.

    Well, for one thing why is there no high tier? Well here is my take on the tier list.

    Edit: This is the list my friend and I came up with after a little deliberation and debate. The rankings are in order and should be read from left to right.

    Top- Wong, Emilio (Both are tied for the rank of number one)

    Lower Top- Burn, Kieth

    High- Setsuna, Genshin

    Middle- Might, Gudeath, Gates, Patty, Regina

    Low- Wendy

    Bottom- Carlo

    Ok let me explain my tier placings a little bit. Wong is just a monster. To be blunt, he's just a flat out cheater. He has incredible defensive capabilites along with awesome mindgame potential. To sum up Wong in a sentence. Teleporting is gay. He can combo his golden sword straight into another one if the first caused a wall bounce then do the second part of the move where he calles all the smaller swords to impale his opponent. Yes the combo is plausible in a real match. It's all about mindgames with Wong and he can pull it off. If a Wong player nails this combo it can take nearly half your life bar.

    His long range strong attack is another great mindgame tool. Throw it in another direction then cause it to reappear behind your opponent. A very nice trick. You can't spam it, but it will keep them guessing. His split image teleport is great when you want to dodge techniques, but not suffer from barrier hit stun. He can also buffer his psychic attacks from his teleports, so its possible to throw out a golden sword almost immediately after you teleport.

    He also has a teleport that he can do after he gets knocked back. He can do this from anything. Even a throw! So you could throw him, he telpeorts instead of doing a retreat barrier and then he combos you. Or he could just mindgame you and and dash away. When you try to rush him or dash away he sticks a golden sword down your throat. By the way, that sword does great damge and has fairly quick start up time. I'm pretty sure it's safe on block too, meaning if your opponent uses a barrier to defend themselves they can't retaliate fast enough because Wong can just defend himself or push his attack. By the way. HE CAN FREEZE TIME!!! So if you only have a little bit of health left he just hyper chrage then time freeze. Then you can kiss your ass good bye when he grabs you. So you are forced to stay on him, which plays right into his hands. Honestly, Wong is god in this game, and I was quite shocked to see that he asn't top tier on your list oldboy. Here is a link to a strategy guide with info on Wong's moves and his overall statistics, as well as the other characters. The info is accurate and helps illustrate my point. Here is the link:

    http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/psychic_force_2012.txt

    As you can see by looking at that faq Wong has many moves that begin execution under half a second, which is pretty much the cut off for fast moves in this game. Under 30 fps is good but go over it and that's when you notice an increase in execution time of moves. One of the reasons why Wong is such a beast. His time control moves have considerable start up times, but when you consider the effects it's well worth it.

    Wow, I typed alot. Ok, I have alot more to say like about advanced techniques and such and other characters in this game, but I'll save that until later.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I haven't played it in a long time. I remember using a stick on it felt terrible.
  • vagabond07vagabond07 Joined: Posts: 310
    Hey Emblem Lord, if you were planning to come to Cape's smashfest on Nov. 4th and 5th, I could play some PF2012 with ya. Cactuar mentioned that you and WoZ play it all the time, so you're probably better than I am, but I love competition in any fighter. I have both DC and PS2 versions. Hope to see you there.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    NECROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    >_>

    Well, oldboy pretty much let this die so I'm taking this shit ova now~~~

    Yeah, new tier list.

    Top- Wong, Emilio (Both are tied for the rank of number one)

    Lower Top- Burn, Kieth

    High- Setsuna, Patty

    Middle- Might, Gudeath, Carlo, Genshin, Regina

    Low- Wendy

    Bottom- Gates
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • FlyMikeFlyMike Rsk Rating $$$ Joined: Posts: 3,091
    I still have this game. Played it about two months ago. It's.....eh, it has to grow on you. Haven't heard about any ps2 version though...
    Flown Michaels.
  • BacardiBacardi steal this avatar Joined: Posts: 5,391 mod
    man i used to play the hell out of this game i. me and my buddies everyday
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  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    This game= pure mindgames and traps. There are abusable moves, but it's mostly mindgames.

    It's definately an acquired taste.

    I'm gonna post more later about my tier placings and then go in depth with each character. I'm not hoping to spark some huge community for Psychic force, although it would be cool since the third one is coming out for the PS3. Rather I'm doing it so I have an outlet for my thoughts and so I call finally voice all the ideas and knowledge I have about this game.

    And maybe, just maybe I'll get some discussion going.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    you can have the thread if you want, I like the new tierlist alot better. Gates on bottom though? I'm just curious.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Well, I guess we can start talking about Gates.

    He's as good a place as any to start discussion about Tier placings.

    I'll keep it simple. I'll talk about pros and cons then give a brief summary of why a character is where they are placed.

    Gates

    Pros:
    + TOW missile has very high homing properties

    + He's a heavy wieght so he doesn't get knocked around as far.

    + Stun Spark and Plasma Cannon are good moves at close/mid range. Stun spark for projectile spammers. And both are good for countering dash ins. Although Stun Spark is slower on the draw then Plasma Cannon. Plasma cannon can also be used in combos. Then followed up with a TOW Missile or a Boost arm

    + All range missile is good for locking your opponent in thier barrier then he can dash in with a barrier break.

    + Double Boost is good for projectile wars and both arms home in. One arm stops the projectile the other hits his oppenent.

    + Has a good bread and butter wall combo. Light attack, strong attack, Wall bounce, Boost arm.

    Cons:
    - He's a heavy weight so his dash is slow and his attack speed is slow. Attack speed isn't that big of a deal, but dash speed is. It means he has a harder time pressuring with dashes and his oppenents will have an easier time dashing away and regrouping which is bad.

    - He is a bigger target so slide dashing isn't as effective with him.

    - All Range Missile, while it can be effective, is far too slow, and Gates will usually be at mid/close range although he can play all ranges. This can be dodged easially and he won't have many opportunities to pull it off.

    - Plasma Cannon, Boost arm, and Double boost are all unsafe on block. The lag from a blocked or dodged Plasma Cannon, Boost Arm, or Double Boost will give his enemy ample time to combo the hell out of him.

    - Very simple. No real tricks or alot of mindgames. He can't really do much. You'll be relying alot on dashing dancing and projectile spam. These tactics are easily overcome.

    Summary: Gates has some good stuff going for him. A nice Basic Projectile with his TOW Missile. A good wall combo. A few solid options at close range and mid-range. Thing about him is that he is slow and laggy. If you block one of his moves then there is a good chance he will get his faced smashed in. G-cracker is slow and pretty useless IMO as well. And overall his game is very simplistic. When I play him I try to like him, but I just can't DO anything with him. He has good combos but a faster character would be better because his dash is slow. All range missile would be good , but it has a long start-up and although it looks like it can't be dodged it actually can be. Dashing in with him is just asking to be grabbed. And grabs come out faster then physical attacks so when you combine that with Gates slow speed things don't look too good for him. Overall he is just too big and slow with little depth to his game. Which wouldn't be so bad if his moves made up for it. But they don't and they just end up adding to his weakness overall. His weaknesses hurt his game too much.

    So who should i do next?

    Also, oldboy, do you and your friends still play this game? What was your reasoning behind your original tier list? Why was Gates higher on yours?
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    DO Burn or Emilio. I dont even think i unlocked Burn in the game lol.
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  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Ok, I'll do Burn. lol. I was wondering when you would find this thread Lilman.

    Ok here we go.

    Burn

    Pros:
    + The second strongest bread and butter wall combo. Light attack, light attack, strong attack, wall bounce, God Pheonix. Does a little over a third of a characters life bar in damage. A life bar is 1000 points. This combo does 337 points of damage. Nothing to scoff at.

    + Triangle heat is a good all purpose move. Good for combos, countering dash ins, he can implement it in dash dance mindgames and corner traps. It has ok start up time, good speed and evading it is extremely difficult if not impossible. It completely dominates people who whore dash dancing and slide dashing. When they are trapped by the symbol Burn has enough time to charge his Psy. Also blowing up the symbol takes no extra Psy.

    + Burning trail is a good dash in counter. It's also good for projectile wars. Time it right and Burn will be unaffected by incoming Psy attacks as he charges this move making it ideal for closing in quickly, when used wisely. It's a good combo ender too.

    + Exploder is another move for countering dash ins and close range projectile wars. Hits multiple times and has good start up time. Safe on block too and it can be aimed which makes it more spammable.

    + Middle weight so he has a good dash, but still doesn't get knocked into walls as easily as a light weight. Best of both worlds IMO.

    + Burning Hand is good for keeping your opponent in the corner. Deceptive range. Damage is high for it's cost.

    + Flame shoot: Comes out fast and has large size and decent homing properties. A decent long range tool as well. Has good travel speed too. Fairly safe at mid range. Good for pressuring your opponent. A very good combo ender for when you have low Psy energy.

    + God Pheonix is the ultimate combo ender. Once again it is a good counter to dash ins, and is very good with dash dancing mindgames. Can also be buffered from a slide dash, which increases it's usefullness. He is also protected from attacks while charging this up.

    Cons:
    - Very limited at long range. Can't really do that much at that range. But his dash speed and solid pressure game negate this weakness to a very large extent.

    - Triangle Heat is totally unsafe on block. It's his best move overall, and since he uses it alot that means there are more chances for him to be punished for it.

    - There are a few frames of vulnerabilty when Burn charges up the God Pheonix. I believe it's when he brings his arms back to threw the Pheonix and a small part of his chest is exposed. If he is hit at this moment he will take damage and the Pheonix will dissappear. This is neglible though because it has only happened to me on a few occasions in all my years of playing. The timing is very specific I think.

    - When charging up the Burning Trail his legs are exposed. If they are hit he will take damage. But this doens't happen often. It's also easily dodged when it is spammed and used without thinking.

    - Nova Flare and Nova Flare shot are basically useless.

    - Flame Shoot is unsafe at close range.

    Summary: Burn's forte is close range combat and pressuring his opponent while staying in their face. He does well at midrange too, but poorly at long range. Arguable Flame shoot is all he needs at long range because of it's speed and he could also use Nova Flare shots, but either way, close/mid range is what Burn is all about. His good dash speed lets him stay up close and personal. And his combos are damn good. He has a good combo ender for when he has full Psy to 30% of his Psy. This way he is almost always able to dish out some pain. His moves are all great for his game plan and will serve a purpose for what ever the situation calls for. He is a straight forward character that has the tools to deal with whatever comes his way. Triangle heat, Flame shoot and Exploder are usually the moves of choice for what ever situation you find yourself in and they get things done right. Triangle heat is great, but he must be careful because of his lag. Burning Hand also has noticeable lag. This is really what keeps him from being Top instead of lower top. His lag. He can be very unsafe and risky and having to be up close so much puts him at risk even more. Overall he has good attributes and attacks. He can mix up well with dash combos, grabs, psy moves and barrier breaks because of his dash speed, and the speed of his other attacks, plus his combos are vicious. That said, he is a great character and a force to be reckoned with.

    So who's next?

    Not Emilio. After doing a higher character how about a lower one?
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • Clear SkyClear Sky Wolf Shirt Joined: Posts: 3,301
    Is there a chance you guys can put up match videos?
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFQA-KTzaPA
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  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    I'm happy that someone requested match vids, because it means that some real interest in the game can be sparked.

    My friend and I play this game religiously, so next time we go at it I'll record some matches and have him put them on youtube. Might take a awhile though because he is a real estate agent and gets very busy at times. But I'm going to see him tommorrow so hopefully it will happen sooner then later.

    Lilman and oldboy: You two seem to have the most interested. I would encourage you to play the game, experiment and share your thoughts. Myabe just maybe a community for this game will emerge.

    I need time to gather my thoughts about the next character I'll be doing.

    I think I'll do Genshin.

    Edit: I have decided to post the gameplay mechanics of Psychic Force 2012. This is copied and pasted from JOng's faq on Gamefaqs. I editted the parts that show directional input.

    ===================================================================
    B - CONTROLS AND GAME BASICS
    ===================================================================

    B.1 - Overview

    This game plays like no other fighting game. The commands for each
    character works regardless of whichever side he or she is facing.
    To make it simple: Imagine a character facing the right. If the
    command require a semi-circular motion of the joystick, it can be
    either from left to right, or right to left, or top to bottom,
    etc...

    Though this is a 3D game, but it plays in a 2D way. This means that
    you won't be able to go into the background or foreground areas,
    just like plain 2D fighting. The fighting area is limited to the
    space within the large cube.

    There are 8 directions: Up, down, left, right, upper left, upper right, lower left, lower right.

    Some movements not using the symbols above:
    360 Degrees - A complete circular motion of the joystick
    180 Degrees - Semi-circular motion of the joystick

    Other 3 buttons are:

    Guard (G) Light Attack (L) Strong Attack (S)


    Like any other fighting game, commands are entered through a swift
    movement of the joystick followed by buttons. i.e. left, right + L

    On the side of the screen are two bars (one for each player). Each
    bar is seperated into 2 gauges - Life gauge and Psycho gauge. To
    execute most moves, you will deplete your Psy gauge. As your Life
    decreases, the space for Psy increases. Hence, your Psy can go
    beyond 100% (max 200%) Above there's a Power indicator. This
    indicator shows a number that represents the strength of the
    character (default is 100, max 200). More basics explained below.

    There are 4 walls of the cube (battle arena) that the characters
    can contact with. Note that finishing off the opponent with
    a special move during the last round will cause the opponent to be
    smashed out of the arena (most of the time). It only applies to
    left and right sides.


    B.2 - Normal Attacks

    L will execute small projectiles from far. These projectiles will
    not deplete your Psy gauge and are weak. S will fire a bigger
    projectile, and depletes your Psy gauge by 30%. (i.e. the first
    move of every character.) When both characters are close together,
    L and S will execute punches and kicks. L can be pressed multiple
    times for a combo. S will deliver a powerful blow. A combination
    of both may be used (i.e. L, L, L, S). More below: Combination
    Moves.

    *Notes: As noted above, S will consume 30% Psy. So when the Psy
    gauge is depleted, the character will fire small
    projectiles just like pressing L.
    Another thing to note is the two commands that are
    available for the first move of every character. As S
    command will deliver a strong physical attack up close,
    the other will be used to fire a projectile.
    (i.e. right, right + S)


    B.3 - Guarding

    Here are a few ways of guarding. Please note that normal guarding
    will not block everything.

    Normal Guard
    Press G
    This guard will only block basic moves, mostly front and small
    projectile attacks.

    Barrier Guard
    360 degree + G
    This guard blocks every move that comes from any direction.
    The Psy gauge will deplete at a constant rate when you use it.
    However the Psy gauge will not be depleted only when you're
    blocking an attack. If the opponent is right next to you, he
    or she will be knocked back.

    Retreat Barrier
    Left, right + G
    This barrier interrupts attacks from the opponent. However, it
    will not break combos, but just prevents the opponent from
    attacking you after being knocked away.
    Psy: 50%

    *Notes: Retreat Barrier will function only if you do hold G button
    after being knocked away. It will turn into a Barrier
    Guard after a while.


    B.4 - Movement

    Normal Dash
    Any direction + L + S
    You can move around quickly around the screen with this.

    Quick Dash
    L + S
    This version of dashing is faster, but use only when you're
    trying to get near your opponent. This dash will bounce off
    any small projectiles shot at you.

    Slide Dash
    left, right + L + S
    This move allows you to side-step into the opponent's defense.


    B.5 - Charging

    Psycho Charge
    G + L + S
    If you're not using the Auto option (Beginner), you must press
    and hold all buttons to refill your Psy gauge.

    Hyper Charge
    360 Degree + G + L + S
    This move will increase your Psy gauge while depleting your
    Life gauge. This will increase your attack power, hence the
    purpose of the Power Indicator that appears at the top.


    B.6 - Other

    Psy-Impluse
    Press L or S repeatedly
    After being knocked into the wall a few times, you can keep
    pressing either L or S to repel your opponent. This will deal
    damage, a form of counter-attacking.
    Psy: 25%

    Barrier Break
    Right + S
    This move has to be done when both characters are close. This
    move will break the opponent's barrier and cause damage.
    However, this move can be guarded by a Normal Guard.
    Psy: 50%

    Catch
    Close, G + L
    Character will perform a catch. i.e., throwing, etc.

    In-game Options
    Normal -
    Most projectile directions controllable. Charging of Psy gauge
    is done manually. However, the Psy gauge will still recover
    at a slow rate if character doesn't move.

    Beginner -
    Psy gauge is automatically charged when character is not
    moving. You may Auto-guard as many times (set in the options)
    throughout the game.

    Handicaps (Dreamcast only) -
    VS Human only, the number of stars indicates the offense.


    B.8 - Combination Moves

    Combination moves are determined by type: light, middle and heavy
    weight. Combos listed below can only be done close. Below are the
    combinations you can execute:

    Light weight
    L, L, L, L
    L, S, Special
    L, S, L, Special
    L, L, S, Special

    Middle weight
    L, L, L
    L, S, Special
    L, L, S, Special

    Heavy weight
    L, L
    S, Special
    L, S, Special
    L, S, S
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    The tier was only partly made by me. Most of it I got from a friend here who's been the one keeping psychic force alive for our group. He based the tier off the little tournaments we've had. I sorta put him on the spot about it, so some of the decisions for the tier were probably rushed.

    Also, do you play the ps2 complete version with the added characters? or only the DC version? I'm working on obtaining the ps2 one, and I was curious if there were any sort of dramatic changes and how the new/old characters fit into the tier.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    DC version. Might get the ps2 version. I don't know. From what I remember about the old characters, I don't think they change the tiers too much.

    I think Brad is slightly worse then Gudeath. Sonia is a little better then Might. And Genma is a little worse then Genshin. This is just from what I remember about the old characters though.

    I heard about psychic force complete. Isn't it only in Japan though?

    Well, anyway back to business

    *Important notes on Advanced Gameplay* (This was written by me alone)

    Wall Barrier- It is possible to interrupt many wall bounce combos with a barrier. To do it just hold G and do a 360 motion on the joypad repeatedly after you have bounced off a wall. You don't have to be super fast, just fairly quick. Doing this will stop many of the characters wall bounce combos and it will cause them to bounce off of your characters barrier. The comboability of nearly every character in the game is greatly reduced with this technique. In fact Burn is the only character that is virtually unaffected by this technique, because almost all of his Psy moves have quick execution time. Thanks to this technique all of the other characters only have 1 or 2 reliable wall bounce combos. This technique only works on close wall combos. I'll talk about close wall combos and other types of combos next.


    There are several types of combos that I have created names for. I will discuss all of them.

    Close wall combo- This si the combo that occurs the most in matches. This occurs when one opponent is comboed into a wall and immediately bounces off the wall or almost immediately and then a Psy move is chained at the end of the combo after the wall bounce. Wall barriers can interrupt most close wall combos, so each character only has a few that are applicable except for Burn. Setsuna, Patty, and Wendy don't have any close wall combos that don't get interrupted by wall barriers.


    Bread and Butter combo- This is the staple close wall combo a character has. It's the combo a player should go for when near a wall. Some characters have only one close wall combo that works, so it automatically becomes their Bread and Butter. Other characters have other combos, but their Bread and Butter does the most damage. Gudeath has the strongest bread and butter combo. Carlo has the weakest.

    Far wall combo- All 3 weight classes go different distances when they are sent reeling. Light weights go far, Middle weights go moderate distance, and heavy weights hardly go anywhere. Knowing how far a character will reel before he/she will be able to put up a retreat barrier is the key to doing more powerful combos. This is because while your opponent is reeling from strong hit the player is already executing his Psy attack and going through it's first frames. This way it will hit his opponent after they do a wall bounce, but before they can do a wall barrier. Psy moves that take too long to execute in close wall combos become great choices for far wall combos. Obviously light weights are more susceptible to these combos, while heavy weights are the least susceptible. Some characters have stronger close wall combos then far wall combos. Burn is one such character.


    Buffering- You can buffer Psy moves from pretty much any action in this game. ANYTHING! From dashes, hyper dashes, barriers, combos, when you're in a downed state, during a psy impulse, etc. You can even buffer moves while the announcer says, "READY?, GO!". One trick to master is slide dash buffering. You can use the left, right directions of the slide dash as buffers for Psy moves. So you could do left, right, dash, strong attack, with Keith and he'll do a slide dash then a Frigid Spine. You could also do left, right, dash, right, strong attack and Keith will slide dash then do Blizzard Tooth. Buffering is a powerful tool and can lead to more mindgames.

    Perfect Shield- When a character's barrier is struck with an attack it won't drain any Psy energy. Perfect Shielding is the art of doing a barrier the moment before an attack strikes you so as little Psy as possible is used.

    Understanding Weight classes- There are advantages and disadvantages attributed to the 3 weight classes. I will list them.

    Light weight- Fly farther from attacks, fast dash, fast physical attacks.

    Middle weight- Fly a moderate distance from attacks, fairly quick dash, fairly quick physical attacks.

    Heavy Weight- Don't fly far at all from attacks, slow dash speed, slow physical attacks.

    Overall middle weight is the ideal weight class. They have decent attributes with no horrible weaknesses. Light weight is also very good. Great speed, but at the cost of being hit very far by attacks. Heavy weight isn't good at all. They don't fly far, but so what? They are slow and their lack of speed hurts them.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    Crap i have to find this game now. Damn it who did i play.....Regina, Emilio, and Genshin i think. That fucking seal card move was awesome to me. The game reminded me of the anime X so i played it just for that when i started.
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Psychic Force was inspired by Clamp's X. Yes, Lilman you are correct.

    oldboy: I'm really looking at you mostly for discussion here. You seem to be the most interested. I mean do you want to play this game on a high level? I would also encourage your friends to go online and post in this thread. I really want to talk about this game.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    Found it!! Starting to play with Genshin again. Too fun!

    Edit: WTF i dont even have Keith? What was i doing?
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Yeah, a pal o'mine should be joining us soon. He wants to argue Gates placement in the tiers. I didn't know that whole thing about buffering attacks from side dash. That will really help out my Keith.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Emblemlord.

    Hey. I am Oldboy's friend, the one that made attempts to rouse up competition in my area. I signed up to SRK just for you, and this thread. A little bit about myself, I began playing Psychic Force when it first arrived for the dreamcast, I still remember renting it at blockbuster. Me and a friend competed at it constantly.

    After a great span of time, I began playing the game again, and enjoyed it immensely. I liked it so much that I began recruiting as many friends as possible to begin playing the game, and assisted them in finding used dreamcasts to play the game on. I was constantly burning copies of the game.

    After a while I began the "Dark Tournament" (a silly reference if you can catch it) series which enjoyed three separate tournaments, typically featuring 10 opponents or more. These were very happy times. The Tournaments always wore down to someone attempting to beat me. I was defeated once in a heated Wong vs. Might match. It was exceptional.

    END

    There are a number of things I would very much like to address immediately.

    About the tiers that were submitted:


    When I first estimated the tiers, they were very similar to yours. However, I had second thoughts about what it is to place characters in the tier system. Essentially, it went from

    Characters who are the most powerful upon deep-level mastery,

    to

    Characters whose attacks are most easily manipulated for best performance.


    And hence the tier system became a quick matter of what characters could land an inescapable (unless a retreat barrier is thrown) attack after a light punch and a strong punch.


    I would like to open this discussion by saying that I believe you may have missed some crucial abilities concerning Gates. I don't believe he qualifies for bottom tier.


    GATES


    Gates was one of my favorite characters to play as. Despite his lack of speed, his power attacks made up for it.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but did you mention anything of Gates' ability to L, S, Plasma Cannon? (I hope I have the name right. It is the giant electric ball that stuns the opponent.)

    If the opponent does not use a retreat barrier in time, the use of the Plasma Cannon is horrendous.

    All gates as to do is a light punch, strong punch, launch the plasma cannon (the special). The opponent will be stunned, leaving lots of time for the next attack.

    Half circle strong for the boost arm, and prior to the hit, half circle strong again to use Gates' pull-in-and-punch attack. The attack hurts!!!

    I really feel that this excellent combo gives him a one up against most characters. I suppose all that I will offer additionally to what you posted about Gates is that he features a great mind game trick that was considered to be a near-guaranteed hit.

    Use the all-range missile (left right right strong), leaving the opponent naturally guarding. Take this opportunity to rush the opponent, and land a shield breaker. This attack has two outcomes:

    1, the opponent holds the guard up and gets his shield broken indefinitely, or

    2, the opponent knows what's coming and attempts to dash away from the missiles, and the incoming hit. He will either escape, or eat a whole lot of missiles.


    What do you think? When you fight your opponents, is use of the retreat barrier common? My judgment of characters does rely heavily on the fact that only a few of my opponents could actually retreat barrier after a L, S, Special combo.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Retreat barrier and barrier owns Gates.

    He is too laggy after his best moves. Doing a retreat barrier is second nature to my friend and I who play this game.

    Secondly, the tier list that I created is based on more then damaging combos. There are several criteria.

    Does the character have tools that lend well to playing a certain way?

    Can the character pressure the oppenent?

    Does the character have good ways to control movement of their oppenent?

    Is the character fast or slow?

    Does the character have strong reliable combos?

    Does the character have powerful techniques that are useful for different situations?

    Does the character have effective mindgames/traps using thier moves?

    How much do the characters weaknesses impact thier game compared to thier strenghts?

    Is the character laggy after alot of thier moves or laggy after alot of thier most useful moves?

    Going by this you can see that Gates really doesn't have what it takes to go beyond low tier. The highest someone could ever convince me to raise him is low tier right next to Wendy.

    He is slow and if his Plasma Cannon, Boost Arm, Double Boost, or Stun Spark is blocked he will take a beating. I'll admit that all of those moves have fast start up time, especially Plasma Cannon. It's good as a dash in counter, but once again, all those moves lag just a little too much.

    All Range Missile is cool and can lock your opponent in thier barrier, but only if they let it. It can be dodged. And if you see him start it up you can hit him out of it with a quick projectile.

    Seriously, when I think of Gates, I think of a watered down Might. And that's bad because Might is just a watered down Burn.

    Both Might and Burn can do what Gates does, but better. They can pressure better, and have better punishers. They are also faster. Burn's Triangle heat is the ultimate dash dance punisher. Might has Magnet Anchor for combo extensions, but it's safe on block.
    Burn can use Triangle heat in the same way. Triangle heat is laggy as hell too, but Burn is an overall much better character so that weakness doesn't hurt him enough to warrent him going down a tier. Burn has God Pheonix and Exploder for dash in counters. Might has the Lighting Sword. and Exploder >>> Stun Spark IMO. They have the same uses, but Exploder comes out faster, can hit up to 3 times and does more damage on the first 2 hits. Stun Spark can only hit 2 times and both hits are weaker.

    I make the comparison between the 3 of them, because I consider all 3 of them to be utility characters. Meaning you use the moves they possess to deal with whatever situation you find yourself in. They are like swiss army knives in a way. Burn is the best. Gates is the worst. Might actually has less moves to work with then Gates. But the few effective moves he does have are actually better then Gates' moves. You can really only play them in an aggressive/ rush down way. But Gates can't do that as well. That's why he is bottom tier.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Whoof. You are truly into this game. I give, your reasoning is too solid, and your tier criteria makes sense. I believe that I have not encountered good enough competition to begin to understand the functionality of the characters.

    However, I agree with you on your standpoint on Burn >>> Might >>> Gates.

    Why couldn't I have fought you? I would have gone absolutely insane once upon a time. I really pressured people to learn how to retreat barrier, but they never got it, and I think I became disillusioned because of this. I have only had one opponent that would retreat barrier often, but he didn't always get it.

    Good sir, I will be keeping close watch of what you post in this thread. You've got your shit together when it comes to this game.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Dude where do you and oldboy live? My friend says he wants to play you guys and so do I. I'll post more about characters later.

    Do you still play this game often? The way you speak makes it sound like your community died. If so, that sucks. I guess I'm grateful to just have one friend who kicks ass in the game and loves it just like I do.

    If you are starved for competition, then the A.I in this game is actually a good substitute. The CPU is no slouch and will give you a run for your money.

    Oldboy and SeizureSalad: Please post often and if you want to, get better at the game and experiemnt often with characters. Like I said I'm dying to talk about this game, share info, and take part in discussion. If you have a question or something to say about the game don't hesitate to post.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    We live in Houston, Texas. And yeah, my community died. As soon as we left for college, we all parted ways, and had nothing more but fond memories of the tournaments.

    I have not played seriously in little under a year. I can say with complete certainty that I have retained all of my old skills. Psychic Force is practically second nature to me.

    Wouldn't it be fortunate if you lived nearby...?

    Oh yeah, and the CPU is good, but I don't remember losing to it frequently.

    I will be visiting the thread frequently, it's great to meet another enthusiast. Truthfully the game will be somewhat dead to me in terms of discussion until I start fighting good competition again.
  • Luigi-Bo 87Luigi-Bo 87 Tastemaker Joined: Posts: 4,395
    This game= pure mindgames and traps. There are abusable moves, but it's mostly mindgames.

    I'm gonna post more later about my tier placings and then go in depth with each character. I'm not hoping to spark some huge community for Psychic force, although it would be cool since the third one is coming out for the PS3.

    Where did you hear this?
    "Every nigga that's ignorant is supporting my genius" - Elzhi
    "FRAYYYYYYYYY" - Fanatiq
    Musics - www.hypedog.co.uk
    Matches - www.youtube.com/user/luigiboverfinal
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Project Psychic = Psychic Force 3 for the PS3

    Check it out on Gamespot.

    SeizureSalad:Hmm, I see. Well, I live in the U.S as well. Only I live in Jersey. >_>

    You can still play the CPU to test a lot of the things I have said. Also if you have friends in college that like games why not introduce them to Psychic Force 2012?

    Anyway, now it's time for the next character.

    Genshin

    Pros:
    + Fast attacker and fast dasher (Light Weight)

    + Soul Mine is good for boxing your opponent in. They can also be used as a shield for Genshin to hide behind. They have fast start up time as well.

    + Big Foot is a nice surprise attack. Good damage, it executes quickly, and goes through projectiles.

    + Ogre spirit is a nice lead in. It travels slowly so he can throw 2 out and then close in, while his opponent is dealing with them. He has alot of tricks with his Ogre spirit.

    + Good Bread and Butter combo. Light attack, light attack, strong attack, wall bounce, Adamant Ring.

    + Adamant Ring is good for dash in mindgames and a decent close range move. Also it comes out fast.

    + Thunder Rosary is good for combos and mindgames. Genshin can throw it at and it will come back to him, like a boomerang. It is great as a distraction.

    + Has a solid containment/control game with the use of his projectiles


    Cons:
    - He flies far from attacks. (Light Weight)

    - Alot of his attacks have significant start up time, especially Trap Card which takes nearly a second to come out.

    - Adamant ring is limited in it's use as a dash in counter. The attack doesn't hit until the rings are completely out of Genshin's body, so it is possible to grab him out of it or attack him out of it.

    - Most characters in the game have ways of dealing with Genshin's Soul Mines and use of projectiles. This means that it's harder for Genshin to take control of the match.

    - His grab has the longest start up time of any grab.

    - Soul Mines don't last too long. Only about 10 seconds. They can also be dashed through in their first few frames, before the flames materialize.

    - Thunder Rosary will return to Genshin automatically if he is hit or takes a hit from a barrier.


    Summary: Genshin is all about control through the use of his projectiles and his Soul Mines. Soul Mines can be used to fence your opponent in or shield Genshin from attacks. They are also good for distracting your opponent. While they deal with your Soul Mines you can attack. Ogre spirit is slow, but with a purpose. He can throw them and then dash right after. It also moves in a weird swaying motion which makes it more deceptive. He can also combo his opponent and then throw an Ogre Spirit, while they are throwing up a retreat barrier. If they hold the shield up in fear of the Ogre Spirit, Genshin can dash in for a barrier break. A very good strategy, but not fool proof. This is just one example of what Genshin can do. He is all about intelligent use of his projectiles. Using Ogre Spirit as a lead in then following up with Soul Mines is another example. If your opponent gets hit with a Soul Mine or an Ogre Spirit and they hit a wall, then he can go for a Death Curse for good damage. Thunder Rosary can be thrown out and then while it comes back he can play his normal game and Thunder Rosary will act as a stand alone projectile. He can do alot with his Psy moves, but he has faults that really hurt him. The main thing is that almost all of the characters have moves that can really mess up his projectile game. It sucks to set up a bunch of Soul Mines to hem your opponent into a corner, and then Setsuna's Daggers Shadow blows them all away. Which leads me into his next weakness. Genshin needs to setup his Soul Mines to control his opponent, which takes a little time and alot of foresight. And it doesn't help that Soul Mines can be dashed through before the flames actually form, which makes it easier for Genshin to get rushed down. Ogre Spirits can be dashed away from and dealt with if his opponent plays smart. This is true of all characters, but impacts Genshin more because he relies so heavily on projectiles. He can play rush down, because his Adamant Ring gives him a good combo finisher, but it still isn't a great close range option for him. Genshin can be grabbed or attacked out of Adamant Ring and his grab is a little slow, which hurts his rushdown game. He is a complicated character that takes alot of thought, understanding, and effort to play. His projectile game is solid, and it's too bad that his weaknesses hurt his game as much as they do. If his Soul Mines came out faster and his Adamant Ring was a better close range move he would definitely be a better character. As it stands he is a solid, complicated character, balanced by his pros and cons.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    Wow i remember i used to love Regina. He BnB did decent damage. And her projectiles are good from mid to long range.
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    So which character should be done next?
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Regina or Wendy. Two personal favorites.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Wendy first then, Regina.

    Here it is.


    Wendy

    Pros:
    + Fast dash and the fastest attacker. (Light weight)

    + Good far wall combos with Vortex Stream, Air Crescent, and Air Slasher.

    + Vortex Stream is safe on block and decent for mid range projectile wars. It can also be aimed, which is a plus. Wendy can combo after it using a grab, a barrier break, or just a normal combo into a Psy move if her oppenent hit the wall or can't retreat barrier. Comboing after Vortex Stream is garuanteed and barrier break is usually the way to go after it hits.

    + Air slasher is ok for close range, because it's so fast. Comes out in 6 frames. Also good for countering slide dashing around Wendy when she hyper dashes.

    + Tri-Crescent is good as a lead in. She can shoot it and then dash after or use an Air Crescent to cover either side of the Tri-Crescent. She could also seperate the Tri-Crescent for mindgames. If her opponent shields it then she gets an easy barrier break. Overall it's good as a pressure move and forcing your opponent to react. Great with Slipheed dance for rushing in afterwards.

    + Mirage step is a good mindgame. It's really just a teleport so, it can dodge attacks.

    + Slipheed Dance is great. It increases her dash speed making her into a speed demon. Due to this speed increase she becomes more unpredictable and her rush down game is enhanced.

    + Earth Gale is good for pushing her opponent back and controlling thier movement. The debris also helps to pin them down. While Earth Gale limits thier movement, she can use Tri-Cresecent to control her opponent even more. She could also use Slipheed Dance and then rush them down while thier pinned down.

    + Air Crescent destroys slide dashing and dashing to the side to avoid projectlies.

    Cons:
    - Air Crescent gets super predictable at high levels of play. When she uses it all her oppenent has to do is Hyper dash into a combo to counter her technique. It's just too laggy and you can hyper dash at her on reaction to her use of this move.

    - Alot of her Psy moves have considerable start up time. So she can easily be grabbed or attacked out of her moves if her opponent sticks to her.

    - Air Slasher isn't really a good reliable dash in counter because as a character comes in with a hyper dash they slide forward. This pushes them towards Wendy and away from the point where the two blades cross over for the attack. Plus even though Air Slasher has insanely quick start up, it's somewhat negated by the fact that the blades are formed behind Wendy's back, so the blades have to come around her body. This means that it actually takes even longer for the attack to hit her opponent, which makes it easier fro her to be grabbed or attacked out it.

    - She doesn't have a Bread and Butter combo.

    - She flies far from attacks. (Light weight)

    - Alot of her moves take a considerable amount of Psy.

    - If Vortex stream is used after a combo where her opponent doesn't hit the wall, then they don't have to use a retreat barrier to block it. A regular barrier will block the Vortex Stream. This allows her opponent to conserve Psy energy.


    Summary: Wendy has alot of ways to control/limit her opponents movement. She is a all about movement control. She wants to either pin you down or force you to react so she can respond to get in damage. She has nice ways of doing this with Tri-Crescent as a long range tool, and Earth Gale to push opponents into walls and corners. Slipheed dance compliments both these techniques well, increasing Wendy's speed and movement capabilities while limiting those of her oppenents. Her game is a mix of long range tools and then going on the offensive usually in close/mid range. She has some problems though. The slow start up time for her moves just begs for her opponents to grab/combo her out of her Psy moves. And the fact that her moves take alot of Psy put's her into a dangerous position. If she does a move that gets interrupted then she probably won't have enough Psy to retreart barrier which hurts her alot. If she charges her Psy after a Tri-Crescent it will hurt her approach, because her hyper dash in will come later. But if she doesn't then she will have less Psy to work with so her offense becomes limited and she becomes more predictable. Air Crescent is nearly useless at high levels of play as well. Tri-Crescent is useful, but definitely not spammable. She also doesn't have a bread and butter, which hurts her offense. She has good far wall combos, with Vortex stream though. Still a bread and butter, really would have helped her offense as they are more reliable. Overall she lacks a good close-up game. She really depends on her set-ups to approach opponents. But those can only go so far. Tri-Crescents are good, but they aren't that hard to deal with. Opponents can dash out of the way and shield to block the Tri-Crescent seperating. Opponents could also use a move that cuts through projectiles, or a multi-hitting projectile to deal with a Tri-Crescent. If she throws a Tri-Crescent and then throws out another move her Psy will be minimal and she will have to charge, or else take a severe beating from a combo that she can't retreat barrier. She can be very predictable and her long range control moves can be shut down just by sticking to her. Overall, she has some cool tricks and mindgames that can really shake up players at lower levels, but at a high level her tricks just aren't good enough.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    More stuff on Gameplay

    Notes on Hyper dashing and spacing: I'm sure you have noticed when you hyper dash a character goes about half way across the cube. They also dash for about half a second. Of course depending on the weight class you will dash slower or faster. Which means a light weight will cover the set distance of a hyper dash quickly, and they won't stay in their dash animation as long. Heavy weights cover the distance more slowly, and stay in their dash animation longer.

    Why is this important? Because if you're slower and you stay in your animation longer, it gives your opponent more time to react to your dash. Which makes you more predictable.

    If you Hyper dash at someone while you are already very close to them, it also gives them more time to react to you. So that's why it's important to space out your hyper dash. When buffering techniques while doing a hyper dash, the Psy move that you buffered won't actually come out until the animation for the hyper dash has ended. So if you hyper dash while in someone's face and buffer a technique, you are just asking for them to grab/combo you.

    Instead, space out your hyper dash so that your buffered Psy move comes out just as your dash finishes and you are right in front of your opponent. This is most effective with light weights and middle weights that have moves with quick execution time. This is a good tactic to master because it makes you more unpredictable. You could hyper dash into a combo, a psy move, even a barrier break. If they try to dash away you could also hyper dash again to chase them. You could also grab if they expect a barrier break.

    Speaking of grabs, did you know that a grab will stop a hyper dashing character almost instantly? So you can hyper dash then grab and your character will almost immediately cancel their dash, stop in place, and grab. Remember when I said it's better to space out your dashes? Well, not always. With this tactic, close up dashing is more viable. You can hyper dash and then immediately grab to get past their guard or to interrupt their attempts to launch a Psy move. It's also great for catching Slide dashers, because when you grab you will automatically face your opponent. So grabs can actually track your opponent. But if you grab too early your opponent can still slide dash out of the way, so be careful. Still grabs are not to be underestimated. You can even grab Wong after he does his teleport to get out of combos and he reappears behind you. It's so strange to see him teleport behind you then your character instantly turns around for the grab. You just have to time it right.

    There's still more. Did you know that doing a light attack out of a Hyper dash is several frames faster then just a regular light attack? So that means a dashed light attack can beat out a lot of moves that your opponent can try to use to counter your dash in. Also a hyper dash light attack makes your character slide forward as they attack because the momentum of the dash carries them. So you don't have to attack right when you get into your opponents face. You can hit it before then and your character will sort of, slide into your opponent with the attack, and you can combo from there.

    And you can mindgame with hyper dashes too. In fact Hyper dashing in itself is a mindgame. What will you do afterwards? Will you grab, attack, buffer a Psy move, Hyper dash again, barrier break, or do a barrier yourself? You could go into dash dancing after a Hyper dash as well. There are a lot of options.


    With proper use of the Hyper dash and the options you have out of it, your offensive close range game will be greatly enhanced. Mix it up and stay unpredictable. Aggressiveness is a powerful tactic in this game and mastery of the Hyper dash is pivotal. Hyper Dashing in itself is very good and allows a close range player to get in his opponents face easily, due to it's homing ability. As long as a player varies up their hyper dash approach, they can stay in control and force their opponents to guess correctly to deal with their assault.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Too bad there's no hyper dash cancels other than throw. It would break the game.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    EDIT: Guys even if you have nothing to say after I post some thing, at least just post bump, that way I don't have to double post. I have alot to say, but I don't want to get in trouble. Thanks.

    oldboy: lol. I think so too.

    Ok, now that I talked about how to fight using the hyper dash, I'll talk about how to defend against it.

    Defending against Hyper dashing is tricky. Not because you don't have options, but because you usually have to guess correctly or you are screwed. Hyper dashing is an easy way to get in someone's face and pressure them. It takes a cool head to stop a good hyper dash offense. And I will discuss the options a player has in this endeavor.

    Well, first off you have to know what you can do. Well, really you can do whatever the hyper dasher can do. You can grab, attack, do a Psy move, dash away, barrier break, slide dash, or put up a barrier. Of course the tools you use will vary depending on your character, spacing, and your opponent.

    Defending against hyper dashing is all about choosing the best option. But your opponent has the advantage in the guessing game. They get to choose their method of attack, and you then get to choose your defense/attack. They start the game and you have to go from there. If you don't think fast you will be demolished.

    So train yourself to recognize that blue aura surrounding a character that signifies a hyper dash. This way you can react to a hyper dash at a moments notice.

    As I sated before the defense you use will vary depending on several things, but mostly on the spacing between you and your opponent. I will divide up the options and their explanations according to the spacing.

    Close range- Your best methods of defense here are slide dashing, grabbing, and putting up a barrier. Slide dashing is great for when your opponent abuses dashing attacks. You can slide dash and then attack them quickly. Just remember that grabbing can stop slide dashing, so be careful. Grabbing is quick and easy. It can catch people off guard due to it's speed. Remember if they dash in while they are close the only thing that can cancel their dash is a grab. Attacking while stop the dash animation, but they will still fly across the screen. So their options from close range dash ins are limited. Still if you want to play it safe you can always throw up a barrier. This will knock your opponents back. But it would also reset the hyper dash guessing game again. If they dash in again, it will probably be for a barrier break, so you can dash away or slide dash and retaliate.
    You could also quickly drop your barrier and go into a regular guard. Do this by quickly letting go of guard and the directional pad then quickly hold the guard button again. If you're fast then your character will quickly drop their barrier, but maintain their guard pose. You'll block the barrier break then you can attack freely. You could also buffer a psy move from your barrier. When they dash in again just let it rip. Just make sure it's a fast move. You could also go aggressive with a hyper dash yourself after they get knocked back form your barrier.


    Far range- Your best methods of defense are dashing away, doing a psy move, doing a barrier, slide dashing, grabbing, or hyper dashing yourself. You have all of your close range options and more. Which makes sense because since your opponent has more viable options with a spaced out hyper dash so should you in order to defend yourself properly. Now if they dash in and you are fast enough, you can nail them with a psy move. This is good because while someone is hyper dashing if they take damage, then they receive 1.5 times more damage the usual. You will know this because when they get hit there will be yellow flashes of light coming from the character. You can dash away and put some distance between you and your opponent. But if you do they will most likely dash again to catch up to you. If they do this then quickly grab and you will catch them off guard. Barriers are still good. Just makes sure not to do it too early, because they it just begs for a barrier break. Of course you could just mindgame them into doing a barrier break and then you dash out of the way and attack them during the lag. Doing a hyper dash of your own could disorient them, or confuse them. They probably won't expect it, and you can mount an offense of your own. I don't really do that myself though. I usually rely on my other options. Grabbing is still good, but be careful. If they space well enough then they could hyper dash, then dash to the side and you will grab air. Then they can beat you down. Be careful.

    Overall I would say the most reliable defense methods that I use are grabbing, putting up a barrier, and doing a psy move. Grabbing is a quick way to interrupt a hyper dash in, and a barrier is good for disruption. Psy moves are good as long as they are fast, and hitting a hyper dasher is a good way to net extra damage. I also use slide dashing, but if it gets predictable then you will be grabbed out of it.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    Too much information.....Cant hold it all in...AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH j/k. Good post. Im sry but if im repeating myself but Regina and Genshin are to sexy. I forgot how much i liked using them.
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    lol. Don't worry about it. Honestly I don't think the mods are looking this thread too much, but still don't want to risk getting in trouble. So just post whatever is on your mind.

    Also if you are having trouble fighting a specific character, or you have a question then fell free to ask. It's nice way to get different discussion going.

    Well, I did Wendy and now Regina is next. Let's take a look.


    Regina

    Pros:
    + Decent dash speed and attack speed, but doesn't fly too far. (Middle weight)

    + Good Bread and Butter combo. Light attack, light attack, strong attack, Flare Blast.

    + Blaze Shot is a fast basic projectile. Does good damage too. Good execution speed as well. A good counter to dash ins due to it's quick start up time. Decent combo finisher.

    + Spark Rain is a good close range move. Safe on block and can be aimed. Similar to Burn's exploder, but the execution time for Spark Rain is slower, and Spark Rain does more damage per hit. A good hyper dash counter.

    + Flame Whip gives her some control/zoning capabilities and a lead in. The flames will destroy projectiles and she can dash through them to her opponent to attack. She has complete control of the whip using the directional pad. She can also use the whip to cover one area and shoot a projectile in another direction as a mindgame.

    + Flare Burst comes out fast and does good damage. Good for close range. Decent with spaced out hyper dashes and stopping slide dashers.

    + Flame Chaser makes it harder to be aggressive with hyper dashes against her, because if she dashes back, flames can hit her attacker. She can also slide dash around opponents and the flames will hit them. She can combo after her opponent is hit with the flames. The flames will destroy projectiles.

    Cons:
    - Atomic Burner is basically useless. I have never gotten it to connect in a far wall combo, because she takes her time throwing out the flames.

    - Hyper Napalm is basically useless as well. Start up time is too slow. The effect is nice. It causes a huge explosion, that can damage her enemy and take out other projectiles, but she can't use this move too often to get much use out of the effect.

    - Flame Whip isn't that effective. It is somewhat predictable. Also she can be hit while throwing the whip out and while pulling it back. If she is hit during this move, the flames won't come out or if they were already coming out then they won't come out entirely.

    - Splitting Blaze Shot is worthless. Either way all your opponent has to do is put up a barrier. If she splits it too early then her opponent can beat out the weaker projectiles with one of their own Psy moves. If she holds the strong attack button down for a split, and her opponent manages to get out of the way, she must split immediately. This will leave her vulnerable to attack, but she'll be even more vulnerable if she doesn't. Holding down the attack button means she will stay in an attack pose while the Blaze Shot flies off screen. She will be dedicated to that pose until she splits the Blaze Shot or when it goes off screen. Either way she will be screwed.

    - She has the slowest barrier break out of all the characters. She easily be grabbed or attacked out of it on reaction. This makes her more predictable, and a lot riskier to try barrier breaking with.

    - Flame chaser can be dispelled if she takes a hit or hits someone's barrier. This is true of all "status changers," but more apparent with Regina because a barrier can take hers away, which makes it easier for an opponent to contend with.

    - Flare Burst has a major weakness. She can be grabbed out of it or hit with a barrier out of it. For some reason the attack doesn't hit right when the flames come out. So this makes it harder to utilize at close range. If she dashes in with it, there is a good chance she will knocked out of it. This limits it's usefulness It's almost useless as hyper dash in counter because of this.


    Summary: With Regina it feels like Taito decided to fuse some of Burn and some of Carlo, but they ended up with a character worse then both of them. She has tricks up her sleeve, but they are either useless or not that effective. Flame Whip and Flame Chaser can only carry her so far and even those moves aren't that great. And the fact that she only has a few solid, reliable moves means she is predictable and simple. Her reliable moves are Blaze Shot, Spark Rain, and to some degree Flare Burst. Flame Whip and flame Chaser are ok, but their use is limited. Flame Whip is limited because opponents can see the path the flames will follow as the whip comes out. Then they will form as Regina pulls it back. Her opponent can react accordingly as they know where the flames are going. They can also interrupt the appearance of the flames by attacking her. She is completely vulnerable while throwing the whip out and pulling it back. Flame chaser will only get some use, because it will disappear with any hit, including getting knocked off a barrier. So a smart opponent will have an easy time getting rid of Flame Chaser. Not to mention it's start up time is pretty long. Her rush down game also takes a hit, because her barrier break is so slow. Hyper Napalm, Atomic Burner, and Blaze Shot Split are basically worthless. She has some solid combos, a few good moves, and some good answers to hyper dash ins. Still her close range game is somewhat lacking and she can't do much with her tricks or control moves. She doesn't have a lot of options like Burn nor does she have the versatility of her brother Carlo. Thus she ends up being a mediocre character with a few solid moves and tactics.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • oldboyoldboy You are a big fool! Joined: Posts: 192
    Poor Regina. I love her flame whip. In the right hands it can be a frustrating weapon.

    I need to dust the dreamcast off and play some if I can't get pf complete soon.
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    Ok. I know someone asked for match videos. Well here are some, but instead of having vids that show high level play I'm doing something different.

    I'm posting some vids that show what you SHOULDN'T be doing.

    These vids aren't of me. There from some guy that said Burn sucked and that Regina is better. FYI this guy is a noob. Not being an asshole. You'll see for yourself.

    Here are the links.


    Keith vs Burn


    Burn vs Keith

    So from watching these vids we can come to several conclusions. I will divide up these conclusions in two sections. A Do section and a Don't section. Some of the following applies to all characters, but it's mostly Burn and Keith I'm talking about.

    Do
    1. Do use retreat barriers.

    2. Do use God Pheonix and Blizzard Tooth as combo enders.

    3. Do use Triangle Heat.

    4. Do blow up the Triangle Heat after it captures your opponent.

    5. Do use your attacks intelligently.

    6. Do play aggressively with Burn.

    7. Do use barrier breaks.

    8. Do use Frigid Shell. Actually you should be spamming it whenever you get the chance. Just be smart about when you use it.

    9. Do use Frigid Lance. Spam this as well, but intelligently.

    Don't
    1. Don't spam Blizzard Tooth or God Pheonix at long distance. This is noobish and ineffective.

    2. Don't spam Burning Trail at any distance. Use it wisely.

    3. Don't throw out random projectiles without thinking.

    4. Don't use Frigid Spine at long distance for no reason.

    5. Don't use Exploder for no reason at long distance.

    6. Don't try to play Burn at long distance.

    7. Don't try to be really, really spammy with Burn. He can only spam a little with 2 moves.

    8. Don't EVER listen to the arrange version of Burning Storm over the arcade verison. The arcade version is far superior.

    9. Don't set the battle option to begginner. You should train yourself to barrier on your own. Also if you do that then you can't aim your projectiles.


    Anyone else have any do's or dont's from watching that vid? If you do please post them. Anyway, who should I talk about next?

    Keith, Emilio, Wong, Carlo, Might, Setsuna, and Patty are left.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    That guy is a scrub. All he did in those vids was spam projectiles. He didnt do 1 wall bounce combo. This guy is stupid.

    Edit: I posted on Youtube with u Emblem. That guy's vid just annoyed me.
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • LilmanLilman XBL: tootall984 Joined: Posts: 934
    Also do Carlo i never liked him too much and i want to see whats possible with him.
    DarkHokage: I got fired from work.
    ME: Why you get fired?
    DarkHokage: For being black.
    ME: So you were late?
    Eish & Conan: LOL
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    lol. Double post ftw.

    Ok, Carlo it is.


    Carlo

    Pros:
    + Good dash speed and attack speed. Doesn't fly too far from attacks. (Middle Weight)

    + Hydro Spiral comes out fast, and has good travel speed. Gets bigger as it travels across the screen. His only wall combo finisher.

    + Has a Bread and Butter. Light attack, strong attack, Hydro Spiral.

    + A lot of his moves are safe on block. Which makes it hard to punish him. He also recovers fast from a lot of his moves, which makes it hard to punish him a well.

    + Hydro Blade is a decent close range move. Hits 3 times. Very safe. Cuts through projectiles.

    + Aqua Javelin is good for catching people who dash too much off guard. Hitting light attack after launching it will make the water flow in a line that is vertical to Carlo. Hitting strong attack will make it flow horizontally to him. If an opponent is foolish enough to dash after he uses the attack tap the appropriate button to hit them.

    + Aqua Gimlet. Great for projectile wars and for countering long range dash ins. Hits up to 3 times. He can aim it and it's safe on block. He also recovers from the last strike very quickly.

    + He attacks with his long legs, which gives him good close attack range and helps him with his dash in attacks.

    + Bubble Mine makes a nice distraction. Carlo can do some nice things with it. If it's hit it will explode and damage Carlo's opponent if they are near it.

    + Hydro Trap is a powerful answer to hyper dash attacks. Carlo can counterattack physical moves, Special throws that use Psy energy, normal throws, and barrier breaks. This move does great damage and his very quick start up.

    Cons:
    - Aqua Gimlet leaves Carlo vulnerable while he launches the 3 hits. He is easily punished during this time. Also Carlo's legs are exposed during the attack, so he can be knocked out it, if he is hit there. And the Aqua Gimlet hits 3 times so if it struck 3 times all 3 hits of it will be canceled out. The Aqua Gimlet will then pass through Carlo's opponent dealing no damage. This is very rare, but it can be done. It usually happens with Burn's exploder or Regina's Spark Rain.

    - Hydro Blade has a blind spot. If Carlo unleashes it before an attack would strike him, he will usually take the hit when the Hydro Blade looks like it should have blown the attack away. This is because if it's blind spot. The blind spot is located just around Carlo's body. The hitbox of the Hydro Blade actually starts a few feet from him. You will notice when he does the attack that the water starts to form a little bit farther from his body. This area between Carlo and the water is the blind spot.

    - Hydro Blade and Aqua Gimlet suffer from a similar weakness. They both hit 3 times, but because Carlo thrives in midrange, he will usually only get 1 or 2 hits in from the attacks. This means he isn't getting the full use out of his attacks.

    - Most of his moves have moderate start up time, so if he uses them in close range he risks getting grabbed or attacked out of them.

    - Using Hydro Trap is risky. Overuse will cause opponents to dash in with Psy moves. Or they could just wait until he uses Hydro Trap and then punish him.

    - Serpent Press is useless. Same reasons as Atomic Burner.

    - Bubble Mine is pretty much useless. If Carlo is hit when it's out it will disappear, even if he is knocked off a barrier. It doesn't last long at all either.

    - Carlos has the most lag after his throw. If he throws someone and they bounce off a wall, they will recover before him and then they can grab/attack/combo him.

    - Smart opponents won't rush Carlo when he launches Aqua Javelin. They will just wait it out and keep their shield up. Carlo can't rush them down, while the Aqua Javelin is out so he can't do anything about them turtling.


    Summary: Carlo is all about spacing his attacks and using them to pierce through the attacks of others to get damage in. He has a bread and butter, but it's weak. At first glance it looks like he has some nice tricks through the use of Bubble Mine and Aqua Javelin. At high level play they are basically worthless. Aqua Javelin is easily contended with. His opponent just has to stay back and not dash around foolishly, then be ready with a barrier. Bubble Mine is one of the worst trap moves in the game. It doesn't travel far and there are so many ways to deal with it. If Carlo makes it at long distance it will dissipate before it can even reach his opponent. It close distance he can be hit before he finishes forming it. A light projectile will destroy it and if Carlo takes a hit of any kind it will dissipate. It's best use is a distraction. While his opponent is trying to get rid of it he can attack them freely. Serpent Press isn't worth mentioning. His tricks may not be that good, but his space controlling moves are. Hydro Blade and Aqua Gimlet are solid moves. They have weaknesses, but they are good and reliable tools nonetheless. They are both safe on block with decent speed. Hydro Trap is a good counter to dash ins. With intelligent use it is a formidable weapon. Hydro Spiral is a good all around move for him. Very fast execution speed, good travel speed and it's safe. His close range game suffers because his bread and butter is weak and his throw has so much lag afterwards. Not to mention that he can be attacked out of a lot of his moves. Hydro Trap and Hydro Spiral alleviate that somewhat, but he still has a hard time playing in close range. Aqua Gimlet is ok at close range, but still risky. It's faster then Hydro Blade, but doesn't have very quick start up time like Hydro Spiral. It should be used cautiously at close range. All in all Carlo is a solid mid tier character. Stay clear of his more worthless moves for the most part and stick to his midrange space controlling moves using Hydro Trap to get in big damage on predictable opponents. He is a safe versatile character with good mid range options and excellent at piercing through others projectiles.

    Edit: So who's next?
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    I'm going to talk about another important aspect of this game. Corner traps. I'll discuss both the offensive and defensive sides. First the offense.

    Corner Traps: Offense

    So you have managed to push your opponent into a corner. Now what? Well, like all aspects of gameplay in Psychic Force 2012 corner traps are all about spacing, positioning, the character your using and mindgames. For all of our examples we will use the bottom left corner of the giant cube that battles are conducted in, although it really doesn't matter which corner you are in.

    Now let's look at our scenario. Your opponent is in the corner and you have some choices you can make. What you do will vary greatly on how much psy you have and how much they have. Also on their state of mind. It is the instinct of cornered animals to try to flee or get away as quickly as possible. Use this to your advantage. How? By giving them a false opening. Let's say you are hugging the wall of the corner. So now it seems like the right side is exposed. This means the corner has an escape route right? Wrong! You can throw a basic projectile towards the right side, and as they flee they will get hit. A basic and effective mindgame. It works quite well though because of the powerful desire to get out of the corner as quickly as possible.

    Another route to take is the simple, effective, safe route. Instead of doing a mindgame you just throw out a fast safe psy move to pressure your opponent. If it hits them, then you can combo from there with a grab/psy move. If not then that's fine too. They will shield it and the guessing game starts over. You could just rush them with a hyper dash and start that guessing game. Of course if they slide dash you will in the corner so be careful. but if you expect that you can just Hyper dash grab. You could also rush them with a barrier break if they have gotten used to blocking psy moves in the corner. The pressure game usually works best when you aren't hugging the cube walls, but are in-between them aligned with the corner. It should look like your character is looking right at the corner of the cube itself. By hovering at this position you become very intimidating and, it gives the impression that the corner trap is inescapable. All of the characters have different moves for corner traps, although some are better at it then others. Setsuna has Mirror coffin and Daggers Shadow. Burn has Exploder, Flame Shoot, etc. I will list all of the characters moves that are good for corner traps after my explanations.

    There is a second stage to corner traps. The second stage occurs when you have attacked your opponent and they have hit the wall twice. This will cause them to go into a downed state where they will be invincible for several frames. What you do next will depend on whether or not they have enough Psy for a Psy impulse. If they do have enough then you should probably just dash away or shield in order to deal with the psy impulse. But you have to know that is what your opponent is planning to do. The safest thing to do is dash away before they recover from the downed state. The corner trap will end though if you do that. If you want to continue it then you really have mix it up in these situations. They may not let out a psy impulse they may just get up and barrier, dash away, or try to do a quick psy attack. If you think they will do that then just pressure them as you normally would. Or to deter them from doing a psy impulse you could give them a false opening. They may not use an impulse because they think they can escape and then you can nail them. If you shield a psy impulse I would say that you can still get in their face and pressure them with a Hyper dash afterwards. But if you always rush them after shielding an impulse they will expect it and then start getting you with psy attacks or countering your hyper dash with slide dashes. Be unpredictable. All in all you can't really do much about a Psy impulse because it covers a wide radius and they are invincible to all attacks while doing it. Also there are two versions of Psy impulses depending on the button you press. Hitting L will make a quick Psy impulse with a small radius. Hitting S will form a slower impulse with a huge radius.

    If they don't have enough Psy for an impulse then you can continue with your normal corner trap guessing game.

    Most reliable methods- Generally you will want to stick with barrier breaks, 1 or 2 really solid corner traps moves, and rush down combos. Barrier breaks will take care of people who try to barrier a lot when in the corner and out of a downed state. Your corner trap moves will be your tools for pressuring, false openings, to deal with characters that may try to use Psy moves of their own or dash in for attacks. Rush down combos and hyper dashing in general will add more pressure to your opponent forcing them to think and act quickly. You can still throw, barrier, or dash away, but you usually won't need to. Although throwing is good for dealing with people who like to dash right in to get you off of them. Dashing away or shielding will usually be used when dealing with Psy impulses.

    Next post I'll list what move each character has for corner traps and why they are good. Then I'll talk about how to defend against corner traps.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
  • EmblemLordEmblemLord Lord of all Lords Joined: Posts: 5,742
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/dreamcast/file/198365/18451

    Check out the character match ups in this guys faq.

    Too funny.
    Play me in Ultra plz. PSN is EmblemLord. Yes I play Sagat....STOP FUCKING LAUGHING AT ME!!!!
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