Rapid Dagger combo viability?

FrozteyFroztey Break the CuffsJoined: Posts: 10,038 mod
edited October 2014 in Decapre
So first off, \\o \o>
that win pose though!

Was looking around for a Q&A thread but couldn't find one, sorry if I'm clogging up the sub-forum. Been learning Decapre for like..2 days, toyed with her before on Week 1 and got a basic understanding of how she works and such. My issue is that I can do daggers 100% off of just pokes, but can't seem to get it as an ender in combos. Then I started questioning if it's even worth it to go for Daggers in combos at all? I don't know honestly, was hoping somebody could give me an answer to this. If I can't do daggers in combos and it's a big part of her game, I'm going to struggle in matches.

So how important are daggers outside of Cr.mk poking?

Comments

  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 11,516
    Useful for RFC combos, and also useful if you can safejump that character off of daggers.

    What ender i use is based off of matchup, meter, timer, etc. etc.

    MP/HP dagger combos also help you build the most meter.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,038 mod
    I'm going to head into training mode and just figure out the piano timings from links, can't correctly learn a character if I struggle to do one of their mainstay tools. Didn't know her daggers were used for meter building really, just thought she was heavy in meter building anyway. Thanks for the response dude!

    Think it's just because I have more time to think about my button presses off of a poke, and a little less pre-thought when I decide to go for it mid-hitstring maybe? Gonna need to work on this.
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    i use it probably way more than i should just because i am used to it from playing honda. I get a lot of corner carries and that is where I am able to put on really strong pressure. i actually didn't realize til the other day you could link cr LP to cr MK so i was just going to hands if i was in a situation where i didn't have time to build charge. i think more often than not you are going to want to go to stinger or RES (that is what i see most good players doing) but i find depending on matchup the corner carry off HP or EX hands insanely good and of course coupled with the safe jump setups even better.

    why i think it can be useful in combos for corner carry:

    offline especially it is so effective to lock someone in the corner and just go in string after string with cr MK xx hands and listen/read for their button presses then stinger them. you can also bop them on the head with foxtail when you've scared them into turtling down back. you've got ex scramble and ex spiral too on top of that its just a lot of really good options once they are in the corner right up against them. great walk speed also equals great throw game.

    i cancel to super a lot mid combo but i believe it is a poor use of meter.
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  • stabicronstabicron CTRL ALT PSYCHOCRUSHER Joined: Posts: 2,065
    Ex daggers seems to do more stun than stinger/res. HP probably does too
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  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    Lp dagger = 120 stun
    Ml dagger = 160 stun
    Hp dagger = 200 stun
    Ex dagger = 250 stun

    It's 350 stun for cr mk + ex dagger

    It's 344 stun for your meterless top damage bnbs too (cl fp, cr mk xx sting or cr mp, cr mp xx sting)

    444 stun for cl fp, cr fp, hp sting if ur execution is godlike

    So there are still better combos for stun but the chance you will hit cr mk xx ex dagger is much easier

    If you hit 2 ex hands combos and then hit a cr hp trap if will stun 900

    If you get a jump in, then cr mk hands, you are going to be sitting above 800 so depending on who you are up against you can look at it like this

    1 more cr mk hands will stun basically anyone and put you over 1100

    A foxtail will put you over 900 or 950 depending on what you jumped in with

    A cr fp will put you over 1000
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,038 mod
    edited November 2014
    EX Hands seems to pack some very strong stun behind the corner carrying benefits it offers on top of everything, I've mainly been exclusively using EX/Light hands, one for pokes and one for corner carrying. M/H versions seem "okay" but a stinger or RES like you said seems better in a majority of situations.

    I've also been using EX hands when they're cornered, the chip, pressure and positioning it gives definitely feels worth the bar to me. Now all I have to do is wait until "Decapre players had trouble getting in, so we made EX Hands +1, Kappa."
  • SoVi3tSoVi3t Behind The Iron Curtain Joined: Posts: 29,170
    I use hands a lot. Pushes them into the corner, does great stun, builds good meter.

    Hands into super does tremendous damage

    ex hands in the corner combos into U1
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,038 mod
    Never seen the prestige about Hands xx Super, I feel like she can do so much more using her bar in other ways, as the Super is usually scaled into oblivion because only H.Hands goes in Super right? Too many hits for my liking. Mix-up game offers too much raw damage, I'd only ever do it if it was for a clutch finish or a game ender.
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    no all versions of hands will go into super (obviously not ex).

    i do it a lot but its a poor use of meter. i mostly am only in the situation to use it when closing rounds. sometimes i get superitis and go in a little too hard trying to hit it (carry over bad habit from honda).

    if you use a combo like cr MP, cr MP xx Stinger FADC air throw you are getting basically the same (or better) setups than you would have off of a hands combo and your net meter loss is only a little over 1 bar actually.

    but since we are talking about confirms, even off cr lk, cr lp, cr MP xx Stinger FADC air throw you going to end up only spending about a bar and change. air throw chucks em a little farther too so you also get the corner carry benefit.

    so really its all a wash, when considered in a confirm. you are mostly better off going for the damage and spending the bar on the FADC air throw in most cases. if you're stuck in the corner it can be a good way to get yourself back to the middle. and if you find you cant get them in time to charge anything (although lp links to cr MK so i dont see how you wouldnt) then maybe consider it. it's just an easy input for me so i end up using it a lot as a confirm from cr MP to LP dagger (especially if i think i might be dropping the link at least it leaves me at a safe (dis)advantage from a lot of the cast)
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  • SoVi3tSoVi3t Behind The Iron Curtain Joined: Posts: 29,170
    oh mid match, I totally agree. To close a round though, Hands into super has to be respected, the amount of damage it does is hefty. And yeah, you can use any Hands into super, thus damage doesn't scale too badly.
    Official 2011 SRK Sexual Deviant Champion Of The Universe And Contest Winner Extraordinaire And Also Official 2012 SRK Sexual Deviant Since Nobody Stepped Forward And 2013 SRK Sexual Deviant Legend Because My Opposition Is Comprised Of Short Pimply GIF Posting Virgins Who Wouldn't Know What To Do With A Woman If She Sat On Their Collective Faces And Wiggled. Still Sexual Deviant Champion Of SRK circa 2015.
    Destroyer Of Azure, Conqueror Of Trolls
    Defiler Of The Pure, Owner Of Souls

    SRK 2015 Thirtiest Member and Current Reigning Champion of the SRK Tournament of Thirst.

    All victories are hilariously argued against by various little boys who shall remain nameless
    Understand that my victories can only be disputed by successfully beating me for once.

    XBox & Steam -> SoVi3t666

    Unofficial champion of SRK GD circa oh-fucking-nine
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    edited November 2014
    You can cancel on almost any point of hands like right off the first hit. But damage scaling treats hands as 1 hit regardless of how many hits you do, so ideally you want to hit as many of the hits as possible. You can even cancel on the last hit but it can end up whiffing them entirely if you do it too late. But yeah I think hands super is an awesome tool to have either way whether it's worth the meter or not. it's like a styling move for easy noob damage

    It's nice because it always gives you time to charge it if you don't see it fast enough, with Hondas I usually have to try and last minute hit a second HHS to try and get it (tight "unplinkable" link)

    Hands confirmed links can get you in a lot of trouble if you drop them. Especially a fp dagger. You will eat 7fr up close max punish every time because the move takes 20 seconds to finish. stinger can obviously get you in even more trouble but the difference is any noob can react to the hands after blocking. I get away with whiffed stingers all the time.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    Scaled my ass, hands into super can do almost half life (slightly under 500) damage depending on the confirm. The only reason you don't use it mid match is because she has so much more uses for meter, which is why it's usually just used to close out.
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 942
    Iirc it's only 450 on a jump in, it's 397 I think for cr mk xx hands xx super. You can get 400 on jump in, cr mp cr mp xx fp stinger FADC air throw
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,038 mod
    I thought both her RF and Super could only be combo'd into from H.Daggers, I stand corrected, apologies for my lack of knowledge.

    I did not know that fun fact about the scaling from hands to super either, that does make her super seem more appealing, but as you say FADC combos and the set-up potential after them is much more rewarding for almost any mid-game scenario.

    And this one is a little out there from the original topic, but Stinger FADC U2? Saw it on a video a while back, was wondering how you gain a down-charge that quickly again, I can only seem to get her ground version.
  • MateriaMateria Joined: Posts: 118
    It's the same charge time again now so just look at your inputs. I find it easier doing AA u2 with 32149+kkk on 1p side and 12369+kkk on 2p
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,038 mod
    Is the accidental nerf why I was having such a hard time in 1.03? I haven't tried since the update came out..you know that charge time nerf completely skipped my mind.
  • MateriaMateria Joined: Posts: 118
    Yeah during 1.03 you'd get the ground ultra instead when doing AA since the ground ultra didn't get changed. Back to the way it was now
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,134 mod
    Iirc it's only 450 on a jump in, it's 397 I think for cr mk xx hands xx super. You can get 400 on jump in, cr mp cr mp xx fp stinger FADC air throw
    470 on jump in. And it's already been stated that she has other uses for meter which is why people tend to use it just to close out.
    Froztey wrote: »
    I thought both her RF and Super could only be combo'd into from H.Daggers, I stand corrected, apologies for my lack of knowledge.
    H Daggers is simply preferred for comboing into RF or super for maximizing damage. Doesn't mean they're the only options.
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