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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,384
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...

    They're responding to community feedback. People whined about D.Va, Ana, and Roadhog's hook, so those things were changed. If I can fault them on anything, it's that they take TOO MUCH feedback from the community when they don't necessarily understand the changes they're asking for. It seems like they're moving towards less of an influence from lower-level play, but it's still a consideration.

    I don't think they put numbers tweaks to the same level of scrutiny that heroes, maps, and the Symmetra rework had. Which is unfortunate, as those can have unintentionally large/small effects when done wrong.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 22,121
    edited January 6
    Yea I guess that's my problem and a problem I have with a lot of modern day balancing. Too much attention paid to the community. I get that it's good to listen to the community and all, but at the same time we aren't game developers, the majority of us don't know what the fuck we are talking about. Our words don't hold much weight, especially since the people who tend to demand changes the most are the scrubbiest ones who just want shit they don't like to be changed so they can do better with the shit they do like.

    When it comes to competitive games I'm really beginning to miss the days when the game you got was the game you got and you had to learn how to deal until the next physical update.

    Perhaps that's just me complaining about things I don't like in favor of things I do tho :rofl:
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,892
    Ana got nerfed too. Healing grenade now only boosts healing by 50% instead of 100%
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,187
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    "Competitive Smash is all about no items and Final Destination."
    - Masahiro Sakurai
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,203
    Really if they stop tanks from being so effective, the usage and strength for the rest of the cast would go up.

    Reworks to bastion and mercy(lol) won't change anything.

    Dont like the idea of tanks putting out the dps they have. Their kits should be more disruptive not hooks, beams etc.

    Really feel like Reinhardt and Winston the only well designed tanks. Dva is either useless or Op while zarya and roadhog should really be dps and need nerfs to their surviabilty.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    I also understand that you may overnerf or overbuff things in the PTR to test them (because that's what a PTR is for), but what worries me is that they released on live 95% of the recent stuff that was on the PTR (including bugs).
    Nobody on the PTR forums is happy about the nerf except a few dps mains that are finally happy they can pew pew her for free, and everyone admits she's worse than she was before the buffs where nobody uses her. She got hit harder than Ana's grenade, which doesn't make sense because that's what makes the tank meta so strong to begin with.
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  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,203
    edited January 6
    I forgot to mention Ana.

    Nerf this bitch and you cut the life force behind why tanks are so good.

    Her heals on top of what she brings with the rest of her kit is too powerful. Either her dps or healing needs to take a hit. She shouldn't have both.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    Lol, Ana's dps is so stupid. "Hello 200hp hero, here's my two body shots from across the map that put you near death"

    I think that the idea of burst healing is nice compared to the other healers' kits, but she shouldn't be able to heal everybody continuously on top of preventing heals for the other team for an entire push. Maybe they should revert back the buff to the rifle magazine too.
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,384
    Remember, less healing is also a serious nerf to her ult charge rate
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,187
    https://gfycat.com/LividFragrantClam

    I thought Roadhog Hook was supposed to be improved. This looks really bad for him.
    "Competitive Smash is all about no items and Final Destination."
    - Masahiro Sakurai
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    They really fucked up something bad because as I said LoS check isn't working at all - I can literally throw the hook at another Hog with half the body peeking around the corner and NEVER hit him.
    Also goodbye taking someone with you after getting booped into a pit, it's IMPOSSIBLE to do now.
    [SFV] Laura (Sakura, Cody?) [3S] Alex, Ken
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  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    People forget how shitty dps meta was before the tank meta, literally almost none of the good players want to go back to dps meta. And Blizzard has no idea how to balance, anyone who played Hots told people that and just got flamed,
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,627
    edited January 6
    too much forum peeking on blizzards end while you have to legitimately sign up it still doesnt filter out people that have no idea what the fuck they are talking about
    then the initial changes they made to console are unexplained seeing as only PC players can sign up on their main site
    which means they mined data from idiots

    and i told yall they shouldve left the hook as it is
    pulling people around corners made sense as the hook made initial contact
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ana healing grenade wasn't the issues as far as the healing goes. The issue was the amount of damage plus the amount of anti heal time it produced as an offensive weapon. Ana is a tank wiper with her biotic grenade, they should have left the healing alone and either made the grenade do no damage or lessen the anti heal time.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Ana healing grenade wasn't the issues as far as the healing goes. The issue was the amount of damage plus the amount of anti heal time it produced as an offensive weapon. Ana is a tank wiper with her biotic grenade, they should have left the healing alone and either made the grenade do no damage or lessen the anti heal time.

    Double healing was really massive though, especially because it affected any source of healing. I think the nerf was legit, but they could've achieved the same by just having the grenade effect last half longer, which would've also probably fixed the whole issue.

    Btw dinoflask is at it again



    I almost choked at the part about Jeff as an OW hero
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  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,892
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.

    Throw grenade 40 feet away, heal all tanks in one clip

    Grenade is part od the problem
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    edited January 6
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.

    Throw grenade 40 feet away, heal all tanks in one clip

    Grenade is part od the problem

    And by the time the grenade hits the targets and the effect wears off you already have another grenade available to throw.
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  • LightzLightz Fish food today, fish shit tomorrow Joined: Posts: 1,239
    I didn't even know about that 180 hook trick with Hog until I read the patch notes. I'll try out D.Va in PTR when I get the chance so I can make my own judgements but on paper, her nerfs hit pretty hard. I don't really have much to say on the Ana nerfs since I don't really use her but that measly Sombra buff is laughable.

    Also this happened to me earlier today. I honestly don't know why.
    qJrGGB7.jpg


    I don't care
  • XhominidXhominid Knight of Dizzy Joined: Posts: 563
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    https://gfycat.com/LividFragrantClam

    I thought Roadhog Hook was supposed to be improved. This looks really bad for him.

    They actually said that was supposed to be the intended effect and I actually agree, I want to have a fighting chance breaking that hook.

    Yeah it makes Hooking Genji, Lucio, D.Va and Tracer that much harder, but that should be the point:
    Roadhog should not be a character that can easily kill damn near everyone with a single Hook. Not even Soldier 76 and Zarya at max charge basically end a character as easily as Roadhog can.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,300
    Sadly Blizzard is very well known for completely destroying the competitive aspect of their games through nonsensical balance choices. A friend told me a while ago he was unsure if competitive OW could last very long because of that... and now I can see why.

    Also still relevant

    large.jpg
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,384
    Yeah, I'll give Blizzard props when they make Bastion, Junkrat, Mercy, and Torbjorn serious characters instead of troll picks. If they keep nerfing stuff the community whines about and nothing else, this game is going to get stale really fast.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • twigstertwigster Joined: Posts: 586
    edited January 7
    Yeah, I'll give Blizzard props when they make Bastion, Junkrat, Mercy, and Torbjorn serious characters instead of troll picks. If they keep nerfing stuff the community whines about and nothing else, this game is going to get stale really fast.

    Torbjorn and Mercy are fine outside of high level competition though. Not every hero is meant to be "meta". There are casuals, after all.

    Edit: to follow up, the pros use the most broken and easy to execute strategies. If Torb's turret suddenly doubles in damage (just as a ridiculous example) they'd probably use him more (since Torbjorn's skill cap is super low), but the whole game would go right out the fucking window.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 22,121
    edited January 7
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    Yea but you don't know what you're talking about either.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • Amazing FunbagsAmazing Funbags The J-Cup Lover Joined: Posts: 17,888
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    Yea but you don't know what you're talking about either.

    With the exception of a few people in this thread, nobody really knows either.
    Boobologist Ph.D
  • SkullboySkullboy Drinking With Skeletons. Joined: Posts: 12,486
    edited January 7
    The amount of complaining and "theory fighter" that goes on in this thread is staggering.
    "Every moment gives us a chance to become more than what we are."

    Tumblr (NSFW)
  • MechWarriorMechWarrior Joined: Posts: 5,718
    Welcome to the circlejerk.
    XBL: MechWarriorNY
  • XhominidXhominid Knight of Dizzy Joined: Posts: 563
    GameFaqs and a few Reddit Overwatch pages are going up in flames about how worthless Roadhog is without even understanding that Roadhog is just fine, you can no longer hook someone if they are remotely in cover as it should be.

    I already hate the D.Va Self-Destruct where I can die because apparently being in an open doorway with a MEKA being to the almost right of the room outside of that door but still being SLIGHTLY within it's "sight"(like my foot being in the doorway almost to safety) means you are going bye bye makes me made enough at times, Roadhog's hook should actually make you safe if only a part of you stick out.

    Roadhog has the ability to immediately make a fair match almost immediately into his teams' favor in a single hook and shot. You damn right he should actually work for that as much as Widowmaker has to for the same result, especially being a Tank.
  • PterodactylPterodactyl drenched in sauce Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Man fuck, I'm a StreetPig player and this "change" is fuckin' garbage.

    Hopefully they find a different way to fix it.
    spread'em
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,203
    edited January 7
    Peeps still thinking mercy needs a rework? Lol

    junk rat, torb, and bastion being relegated to trolls picks?. :rofl:

    Funny how in the same breath peeps mention symmetra rework and these heroes yet they've been right in F rank in the crap usage list you all worship. Fucking kek.

    If Blizz would stop balancing based off shit scrubs that only know how to look at that fucking usage tier while bitching and moaning for reworks and buffs Overwatch wouldn't be in the fast track to the shitter.

    Also hog is fine. Dva was murdered, Ana slapped on the wrist and sombra got the "Go get em kid" pat on the shoulder.

    Blizz balance guys and the scrubs they cater to.
    Post edited by Eskills on
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • SurremiesSurremies Joined: Posts: 714
    edited January 7
    junk rat, torb, and bastion being relegated to trolls picks?. :rofl:
    I assume you've got full premade since OW was released (like you've multiple times advertised to get one) but I simply don't have that luxury at the moment or in near-future due to limited playtime. I usually have max 2 friends with me so there's 3 more slots to fill (resulting in mixed communication). While Junkrat might get useful on defending and Bastion + Torbjörn can be used as surprise picks, 95 % of the times I've seen is about "lulz I throw the match / I'll troll". While potential is there, so are the "meta" and trolls.
    Also hog is fine
    I've said that before and after Ana was released and tank meta was on, while general discussion was about how "Road is weak, needs buff and does nothing for the team" yet lately it's been opposite.
    "Every nerf makes its own tune.."
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,203
    edited January 7
    Peeps believing meme garbage doesn't show balance. These are the same scrubs that base their "Balance" from usage tier and refuse to believe anything F tier isn't garbage. The same ones that cite those list as reasons why they should be buffed to viability for solo que...while the comp scene play with money on the line and always use what's best. Nice way to see what's actually viable.

    Symmetra rework? Still in F, but apparently the golden standard of what future reworks should be. You know, despite her actual usage staying low and usefulness still being first point defense. Reaper recently and various dps drop to F, they just become shit cause they aren't a flavor pick?

    I mean we actually have people saying mercy is useless, needs a rework, and are dead ass serious.

    These are the people Blizz is listening to!
    Since this game came out you could see the shit that was going to be changed based off the amount bitching it got in their forums.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited January 7
    Hog isn't fine, he is pretty shit with his hook rework. He isn't a tank he is a bruiser, his job is to keep squishies in check which he can no longer do. He was solid mid tier without the changes and will be just another useless char with slow movement and a huge hitbox.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,203
    edited January 7
    And shit like this^

    Hog is fine. Hooking around edges and corners on top of him not actually being able to see you was trash.

    He'll still gets hooks, just not to the side of door ways or over the edge of a roof.

    Hog being a mid tier pick when hook is death, on short cooldown and on damn near every team. Fucking lol.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,892
    Symmetra was bad at like all levels and was super niche. They reworked her so she's not as niche and it's great.

    Tank meta is dominant at many levels and there's a lot of complaints about it

    Roadhog takes skill now \o/

    Dva nerf was too much, idk why they changed her health in the first place. I like the gun change though.

    Fuck ana

    Sombra needs help

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