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  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,121
    edited January 6
    D.Va nerfs were too much.

    All that needed to be addressed was the armor/health ratio. Fusion Cannons were fine.

    Are they too scared to lower Sombra's hacking cooldown?
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    twigster wrote: »
    I think you guys are over-reacting. D.Va will be fine if played as intended.

    If by "played as intended" you mean getting killed first in every fight, then you're right.
    I think she's worse than before the health buff, no joke. At least before you could've been able to build an ult after going in a few times. Now you will die even before you can deal significant damage.
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  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,908
    D.Va actually loses to the characters designed to counter her now; literally unplayable lol
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,003
    edited January 6
    Welcome to F rank Dva.

    Straight bodied by those nerfs.

    They could have made it a 300/300 split or knocked her armor down by 100-150.

    Sombra changes = :rofl:
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • twigstertwigster Joined: Posts: 585
    twigster wrote: »
    I think you guys are over-reacting. D.Va will be fine if played as intended.

    If by "played as intended" you mean getting killed first in every fight, then you're right.
    I think she's worse than before the health buff, no joke. At least before you could've been able to build an ult after going in a few times. Now you will die even before you can deal significant damage.

    Maybe, I dunno. She also has a second life. Btw I think they need to do something with mech-less D.va, even if it's not a super high priority.

    She still beats turrets, Symmetra (maybe?), some supports, and Winston, and she can delete stuff from the game. She's fine.

    I'm just happy there will be a lot less scrub-ass D.Va's in comp now.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    Symmetra could be beaten before but now it might be dead for D.va. As soon as the lv3 primary kicks in she starts melting incredibly fast and she doesn't even have Roadhog's breather to delay death and give himself another chance to land a hook or a raw headshot.

    With these nerfs she has become the squishiest tank in the game and lost pretty much any purpose other than destroying Torbjörn's turrets and stalling in overtime (which she'll do way worse now). I can't see anyone justifying her presence in a game especially with the new Ana nerfs incoming. At least dps mains will be happy now.
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  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,908
    edited January 6
    Actually, it might be worth mentioning the indirect winners of this patch, specifically the D.Va changes. Roadhog and Ana are functionally the same characters they were before, but the HP and damage nerfs to D.Va might affect the viability of certain heroes.
    • Reaper: D.Va went from a 200/400 health pool to a 400/200 health pool. The reduction in armor primarily effects characters who use shotguns and tick damage, most notably Reaper. A full blast from Reaper's gun deals 140 damage, 7 for each of the 20 pellets. However, armor halves this amount, so he only does 70 damage to an armored target. While D.Va is 200/400, it takes 8 shots (70+70+70+70+70+50* damage to break armor, 40*+140+140 to finish) to kill her. Against a 400/200 D.Va, Reaper only needs 6 shots (70+70+60* to break armor, 20*+140+140+140 to finish). Part of why Reaper outright lost to D.Va was that she could generally outlast his damage and kill him, particularly with a pocket healer. Not only does he kill faster, but the damage nerf to D.Va means she will kill him slower too.
    • Mei: Mei is a strange case. Her main weapon is one of the few reliable ways to get around a Defense Matrix. While the 200 armor is still an obstacle to freezing D.Va, focus firing her as a team should kill faster and give more reward for shutting her down like this. Also, the lowered damage gives Mei more time to enter Ice Block and heal back up.
    • Soldier 76: I am NOT looking forward to the god-tier 76 meta, honestly. D.Va was one of the few things keeping him in check, and now he'll have an easier time dealing with her. Defense Matrix is still a huge annoyance for him, but he's going to melt D.Va as soon as it drops. Maybe the advent of characters D.Va normally shits on will be enough to prevent a Soldier takeover.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,908
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...

    They're responding to community feedback. People whined about D.Va, Ana, and Roadhog's hook, so those things were changed. If I can fault them on anything, it's that they take TOO MUCH feedback from the community when they don't necessarily understand the changes they're asking for. It seems like they're moving towards less of an influence from lower-level play, but it's still a consideration.

    I don't think they put numbers tweaks to the same level of scrutiny that heroes, maps, and the Symmetra rework had. Which is unfortunate, as those can have unintentionally large/small effects when done wrong.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,586
    edited January 6
    Yea I guess that's my problem and a problem I have with a lot of modern day balancing. Too much attention paid to the community. I get that it's good to listen to the community and all, but at the same time we aren't game developers, the majority of us don't know what the fuck we are talking about. Our words don't hold much weight, especially since the people who tend to demand changes the most are the scrubbiest ones who just want shit they don't like to be changed so they can do better with the shit they do like.

    When it comes to competitive games I'm really beginning to miss the days when the game you got was the game you got and you had to learn how to deal until the next physical update.

    Perhaps that's just me complaining about things I don't like in favor of things I do tho :rofl:
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,660
    Ana got nerfed too. Healing grenade now only boosts healing by 50% instead of 100%
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,121
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    "Competitive Smash is all about no items and Final Destination."
    - Masahiro Sakurai
  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,003
    Really if they stop tanks from being so effective, the usage and strength for the rest of the cast would go up.

    Reworks to bastion and mercy(lol) won't change anything.

    Dont like the idea of tanks putting out the dps they have. Their kits should be more disruptive not hooks, beams etc.

    Really feel like Reinhardt and Winston the only well designed tanks. Dva is either useless or Op while zarya and roadhog should really be dps and need nerfs to their surviabilty.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    I also understand that you may overnerf or overbuff things in the PTR to test them (because that's what a PTR is for), but what worries me is that they released on live 95% of the recent stuff that was on the PTR (including bugs).
    Nobody on the PTR forums is happy about the nerf except a few dps mains that are finally happy they can pew pew her for free, and everyone admits she's worse than she was before the buffs where nobody uses her. She got hit harder than Ana's grenade, which doesn't make sense because that's what makes the tank meta so strong to begin with.
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  • EskillsEskills Joined: Posts: 4,003
    edited January 6
    I forgot to mention Ana.

    Nerf this bitch and you cut the life force behind why tanks are so good.

    Her heals on top of what she brings with the rest of her kit is too powerful. Either her dps or healing needs to take a hit. She shouldn't have both.
    I do believe tat I r teh King.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    Lol, Ana's dps is so stupid. "Hello 200hp hero, here's my two body shots from across the map that put you near death"

    I think that the idea of burst healing is nice compared to the other healers' kits, but she shouldn't be able to heal everybody continuously on top of preventing heals for the other team for an entire push. Maybe they should revert back the buff to the rifle magazine too.
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  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,908
    Remember, less healing is also a serious nerf to her ult charge rate
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,121
    https://gfycat.com/LividFragrantClam

    I thought Roadhog Hook was supposed to be improved. This looks really bad for him.
    "Competitive Smash is all about no items and Final Destination."
    - Masahiro Sakurai
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    They really fucked up something bad because as I said LoS check isn't working at all - I can literally throw the hook at another Hog with half the body peeking around the corner and NEVER hit him.
    Also goodbye taking someone with you after getting booped into a pit, it's IMPOSSIBLE to do now.
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  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    People forget how shitty dps meta was before the tank meta, literally almost none of the good players want to go back to dps meta. And Blizzard has no idea how to balance, anyone who played Hots told people that and just got flamed,
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 2,580
    edited January 6
    too much forum peeking on blizzards end while you have to legitimately sign up it still doesnt filter out people that have no idea what the fuck they are talking about
    then the initial changes they made to console are unexplained seeing as only PC players can sign up on their main site
    which means they mined data from idiots

    and i told yall they shouldve left the hook as it is
    pulling people around corners made sense as the hook made initial contact
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ana healing grenade wasn't the issues as far as the healing goes. The issue was the amount of damage plus the amount of anti heal time it produced as an offensive weapon. Ana is a tank wiper with her biotic grenade, they should have left the healing alone and either made the grenade do no damage or lessen the anti heal time.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Ana healing grenade wasn't the issues as far as the healing goes. The issue was the amount of damage plus the amount of anti heal time it produced as an offensive weapon. Ana is a tank wiper with her biotic grenade, they should have left the healing alone and either made the grenade do no damage or lessen the anti heal time.

    Double healing was really massive though, especially because it affected any source of healing. I think the nerf was legit, but they could've achieved the same by just having the grenade effect last half longer, which would've also probably fixed the whole issue.

    Btw dinoflask is at it again



    I almost choked at the part about Jeff as an OW hero
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  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 12,824 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • Mood4food77Mood4food77 Joined: Posts: 9,660
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.

    Throw grenade 40 feet away, heal all tanks in one clip

    Grenade is part od the problem
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    edited January 6
    jae hoon wrote: »
    Double healing is a lot but wasn't really the main issue, now you will just see even more dps Ana biotic grenading frontlines to death. It won't have the intended effect.

    Throw grenade 40 feet away, heal all tanks in one clip

    Grenade is part od the problem

    And by the time the grenade hits the targets and the effect wears off you already have another grenade available to throw.
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  • LightzLightz ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Joined: Posts: 1,232
    I didn't even know about that 180 hook trick with Hog until I read the patch notes. I'll try out D.Va in PTR when I get the chance so I can make my own judgements but on paper, her nerfs hit pretty hard. I don't really have much to say on the Ana nerfs since I don't really use her but that measly Sombra buff is laughable.

    Also this happened to me earlier today. I honestly don't know why.
    qJrGGB7.jpg


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  • XhominidXhominid Knight of Dizzy Joined: Posts: 528
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    https://gfycat.com/LividFragrantClam

    I thought Roadhog Hook was supposed to be improved. This looks really bad for him.

    They actually said that was supposed to be the intended effect and I actually agree, I want to have a fighting chance breaking that hook.

    Yeah it makes Hooking Genji, Lucio, D.Va and Tracer that much harder, but that should be the point:
    Roadhog should not be a character that can easily kill damn near everyone with a single Hook. Not even Soldier 76 and Zarya at max charge basically end a character as easily as Roadhog can.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,750
    Sadly Blizzard is very well known for completely destroying the competitive aspect of their games through nonsensical balance choices. A friend told me a while ago he was unsure if competitive OW could last very long because of that... and now I can see why.

    Also still relevant

    large.jpg
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  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Eagle will return Joined: Posts: 7,908
    Yeah, I'll give Blizzard props when they make Bastion, Junkrat, Mercy, and Torbjorn serious characters instead of troll picks. If they keep nerfing stuff the community whines about and nothing else, this game is going to get stale really fast.
  • twigstertwigster Joined: Posts: 585
    edited January 7
    Yeah, I'll give Blizzard props when they make Bastion, Junkrat, Mercy, and Torbjorn serious characters instead of troll picks. If they keep nerfing stuff the community whines about and nothing else, this game is going to get stale really fast.

    Torbjorn and Mercy are fine outside of high level competition though. Not every hero is meant to be "meta". There are casuals, after all.

    Edit: to follow up, the pros use the most broken and easy to execute strategies. If Torb's turret suddenly doubles in damage (just as a ridiculous example) they'd probably use him more (since Torbjorn's skill cap is super low), but the whole game would go right out the fucking window.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,586
    edited January 7
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    Yea but you don't know what you're talking about either.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • Amazing FunbagsAmazing Funbags The J-Cup Lover Joined: Posts: 17,873
    CHIEfy wrote: »
    Kinda starting to feel like Blizz doesn't know what they are doing...
    They never did.

    Symmetra had to be reworked, and a few others may need similar treatment (Mercy, Bastion).

    Matchmaking is also bad in several game modes, but that's a different story.
    Yea but you don't know what you're talking about either.

    With the exception of a few people in this thread, nobody really knows either.
    Boobologist Ph.D
  • The MartianThe Martian We Out Here. Joined: Posts: 12,250
    edited January 7
    The amount of complaining and "theory fighter" that goes on in this thread is staggering.
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  • MechWarriorMechWarrior Joined: Posts: 5,718
    Welcome to the circlejerk.
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  • XhominidXhominid Knight of Dizzy Joined: Posts: 528
    GameFaqs and a few Reddit Overwatch pages are going up in flames about how worthless Roadhog is without even understanding that Roadhog is just fine, you can no longer hook someone if they are remotely in cover as it should be.

    I already hate the D.Va Self-Destruct where I can die because apparently being in an open doorway with a MEKA being to the almost right of the room outside of that door but still being SLIGHTLY within it's "sight"(like my foot being in the doorway almost to safety) means you are going bye bye makes me made enough at times, Roadhog's hook should actually make you safe if only a part of you stick out.

    Roadhog has the ability to immediately make a fair match almost immediately into his teams' favor in a single hook and shot. You damn right he should actually work for that as much as Widowmaker has to for the same result, especially being a Tank.