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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    edited March 8
    So, with dive becoming the inevitable meta soon, how do you guys approach combating a dive comp, defined here as Tracer/Genji/Winston with a 3rd DPS and 2 healers? I have a few ideas that I haven't had the chance to play and haven't seen discussed yet:
    • Sym/Torb defenses have the potential to thwart a dive comp and force the enemy team to switch. Symmetra's primary fire is hell for Genji/Tracer and will melt Winston if she's built up some momentum. The sheer amount of turrets between the two builders spreads a dive comp's resources even further than normal, as Widow/Pharah have to give up at least 3 shots to taking out a Torb turret and well-placed Symmetra turrets will draw the Winston's attention away from your allies. Once Torb's put out a few armor packs and Symmetra has her ult, life is going to get really hard for the dive team due to all the extra HP. If Torb gets Molten Core, he can ult on reaction to a dive and clean up the flankers.
    • Mei is an interesting case. She has pretty good match ups against Tracer/Genji/Winston, but oftentimes the 3rd DPS is a long range fighter like Soldier or Widowmaker who can focus on removing Mei from the fight. However, her Ice Wall is really good at blocking the 3rd DPS and healers' line of sight to the action, as well as blocking damage from inside of a Winston barrier. As a last-ditch option, Mei has plenty of tools to stall out a capture while her team regroups.
    • The emergence of dive might actually help Widowmaker's pick rate. If you can take out a healer (or somehow a Genji/Tracer) before the fight starts, the attacking team will be at a massive disadvantage. Also, an entrenched Widowmaker is pretty good against Pharah/Soldier and has the advantage of positioning vs an enemy Widowmaker. Admittedly though, Winston eats her soul so you have to be somewhere Winston doesn't want to go.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,124 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    There is a theory floating out there about a deathball lineup on certain map points with the Sombra buffs coming. Essentially Sombra, Ana, Whatever that shitty new char is, Zarya, dps, healer. Basically stacking nano on top of horrible chats ult with EMP and Grav.
    SRK Kobrai Kai - Kickin bitches in the face since 2001
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    Widow against heroes with great mobility and Sym against Winston? Hm... maybe not.
    jae hoon wrote: »
    There is a theory floating out there about a deathball lineup on certain map points with the Sombra buffs coming. Essentially Sombra, Ana, Whatever that shitty new char is, Zarya, dps, healer. Basically stacking nano on top of horrible chats ult with EMP and Grav.

    Nano+Mercy's blue stream+bongo drum will make a hero deal +130% damage or two heroes deal +80% and +100% respectively. It's pretty fucking insane. I guess they're gonna cap the cumulated damage buff at some point because you can end up steamrolling teams instantly.
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Widow against heroes with great mobility and Sym against Winston? Hm... maybe not.
    jae hoon wrote: »
    There is a theory floating out there about a deathball lineup on certain map points with the Sombra buffs coming. Essentially Sombra, Ana, Whatever that shitty new char is, Zarya, dps, healer. Basically stacking nano on top of horrible chats ult with EMP and Grav.

    Nano+Mercy's blue stream+bongo drum will make a hero deal +130% damage or two heroes deal +80% and +100% respectively. It's pretty fucking insane. I guess they're gonna cap the cumulated damage buff at some point because you can end up steamrolling teams instantly.

    Not all at once, god no. And I even note that Sym needs some charge before she really threatens Winston.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Also, the Overbuff guy has been experimenting with a new pickrate chart format: https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-03-07-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-omnic-crisis-averted
    1lz3qkK5OmS.jpg
    1lz3uh4jtT8.jpg
    This made me think about how to better present my tier graphic in particular, to help curb some of the negative behavior that some have used it to justify. Jeff mentioned that for some people, a “balanced meta” refers to a theoretical world where every hero gets picked at the same rate. He concludes that he’s not sure that it’s realistic, nor that it would necessarily be good for Overwatch as a whole, but I (initially) thought that this “equal” rate would be an interesting baseline for comparison. My hope was that while this perfect average could never (and probably shouldn’t ever) be reached, it would help separate out both the “must-use” heroes and “niche” heroes more clearly. Jeff references an equal pickrate of 4-5% (100% / 23 heroes), but since my data is presented as usage rate, (100% * 6 lineup slots / 23 heroes), it comes out to roughly 26% usage rate. I took this average rate, then created a new Tier Chart. Each tier range is still chosen arbitrarily – but each cutoff is based on some fraction or multiple of the 26% usage rate mean. It looks like this:
    1lz3yq1VtRH.jpg

    Instead of the cutoffs being 95%, 80%, 50%, 20%, and 5%, the new system uses 78%, 52%, 26%, 13%, and 2.6% as the arbitrary cutoffs. This evens out the hero balance a little bit, raising a handful of characters up a tier.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 6,979
    Not the sombra buff I wanted but better than nothing
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    Jack_Frost wrote: »
    Not the sombra buff I wanted but better than nothing

    Here's another one incoming then:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753416574#post-12
    Sombra and her teammates will be able to see hacked health packs through walls. About fucking time.
    Maybe the same for Symmetra ult now?
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    edited March 9
    Finally finished my placement matches. As expected, I was placed in gold about 200 SR less than my final SR in S3. The matches went worse and worse as the SR of my teammates was getting lower. The difference between the first 6 and the last 4 was shocking. In the very last one I was getting constantly flamed by our Lucio in voice chat just because I picked Sombra and we "needed more DPS" when we were running D.va, Zarya and Rein (it was very clear that he just hated Sombra). Needless to say he didn't even think of switching to Ana. I can't understand how people can live through that and play ranked regularly at that level.

    I really wish they go for a clean slate next season. What's even the purpose of placement matches if the system already decided my SR range anyway? And why does it have to take into account my entire history including my first matches when I barely knew how to play an FPS?
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  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    Idk about needing more DPS, but that comp is pretty iffy. Either the last guy was an additional healer trying to sustain all your tanks (leaving you with low damage output) or he was another DPS and Lucio was stuck trying to solo heal 3 tanks. You guys were pretty much fucked regardless.

    What's really wrong with that comp is 3 tanks and Lucio as the only healer I'm assuming. If you guys were bent on running 3 tanks he needed to either be Mercy or maybe Ana if he knows what he's doing. That or one of your tanks (I'd say D.Va) should've been Hog.
  • PterodactylPterodactyl drenched in sauce Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Jack_Frost wrote: »
    Not the sombra buff I wanted but better than nothing

    Here's another one incoming then:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753416574#post-12
    Sombra and her teammates will be able to see hacked health packs through walls. About fucking time.
    Maybe the same for Symmetra ult now?

    This is just one of those things that's like "why the fuck wasn't it like that from the start?", seemed so obvious.

    Unless you were mic'd up on console and/or constantly typing on PC about where and when you hacked a pack, it was almost useless to anyone but yourself.
    spread'em
  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    Apparently Biotic Grenade nerf was reverted on PTR. Same thing with Zen Discording through barriers. Damage nerf to her rifle is still there though.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753516591
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    edited March 9
    Vhozon wrote: »
    Idk about needing more DPS, but that comp is pretty iffy. Either the last guy was an additional healer trying to sustain all your tanks (leaving you with low damage output) or he was another DPS and Lucio was stuck trying to solo heal 3 tanks. You guys were pretty much fucked regardless.

    What's really wrong with that comp is 3 tanks and Lucio as the only healer I'm assuming. If you guys were bent on running 3 tanks he needed to either be Mercy or maybe Ana if he knows what he's doing. That or one of your tanks (I'd say D.Va) should've been Hog.

    Yeah Lucio was solo healing, but I hacked the health pack at the choke so that they could use it. They really didn't despite explaining my strategy in voice chat because my ult was charging very slow. I can't remember who the last member was but it was probably a Mei or another not so good DPS. Honestly with those three tanks they could've went Mercy+Bastion and we would've wrecked them, but it was very obvious that either Lucio or D.va were the wrong picks there and that the guy was flaming me purely because of his preconceptions about Sombra. Meanwhile I was continuously hacking Rein's shield, destroying Symmetra TPs and distracting the enemy team and none of them was able to go in.
    Oh and needless to say, the enemy team was running a Sombra on attack too and they ran over us.
    Vhozon wrote: »
    Apparently Biotic Grenade nerf was reverted on PTR. Same thing with Zen Discording through barriers. Damage nerf to her rifle is still there though.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753516591

    Looks like the uproar worked lol. Won't say that I'm mad that her nade is still uberbroken.
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  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    Yeah I'm happy the reverted Ana. I can live with her damage nerf but the grenade nerf wrecked her.

    I actually liked the Zen Discord buff though. I wonder of they found it was too strong or they just didn't want to do too much in one patch.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    I think discording through barriers proved to be a little too strong since any flanker can just go behind and wreck a specific target even if he was in the right position.
    Zen also got buffed btw, his primary fire doesn't have spread anymore meaning you can be 100% precise at any range.
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  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 6,979
    anyone trying to get some games going tonight?

    HaStylez#1675
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,595
    I wish I could expressing not feeling Lucio as a support without people jumping down my throat. "Lucio's the meta, bro!" "You're just not utilizing his kit!" "He's cool AF!" I don't know what it is, and maybe it's because I barely use him, but I just don't find the enjoyment in his gameplay as I do with Ana. Maybe it's an "acquired taste".
    "Everyone in here has had someone who tried to convince them that they were sexually harassed, and you did not believe them because they were not cute."
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    Lucio is very fun when you learn to use his mobility and the aggressive speed boosts to rush down enemies. If you play him correctly you'll be leading the team 70% of the time.
    imho the healers from the most to the least fun: Ana > Lucio > Zen > Mercy (although Zen could be more fun now)

    Just played Sombra on the PTR and she feels so great. The 4s CD on translocator is so short that you can now use it offensively and have soon another one available to escape. I think she has legit one of the best mobilities if not the best mobility in the game right now. Definitely maining Sombra and Ana for the remainder of the season.
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Lucio is very boring when played as a raw healer, which most people in comp think works for some reason. I personally only gravitate towards him on maps that have really fun wall ride opportunities (ex. Lijiang Garden/Tower, Anubis)
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    I tend to only play him on Illos to boop people. Otherwise yes I do find him boring to play. Interestingly though I get a lot of melee kills with him.
  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX SRK's ResidentSleeper Joined: Posts: 11,952
    edited March 9
    Lucio is very boring when played as a raw healer, which most people in comp think works for some reason. I personally only gravitate towards him on maps that have really fun wall ride opportunities (ex. Lijiang Garden/Tower, Anubis)

    He's a great raw healer in the sense that he can get the whole team at once. He's all about positioning and knowing when to burn your amp. I did a comp match on Numbani the other day only playing Lucio and pulled 29k healing.

    You also have to understand that you aren't the primary healer. Lucio is more of a paramedic so to speak. You're supposed to keep teammates stable until the real doctor can get around to fixing them up
    Unchallenged owner of worst user name on SRK
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    Lucio is a good healer if there are extended poking phases without any pushes. His amped up heal is also good to resist the initial push on defense. However as soon as there are kills you should be switching to speed aura either to help disengage (if the kills are on your side) or to push on a specific enemy and win the fight.
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,595
    Lucio is very fun when you learn to use his mobility and the aggressive speed boosts to rush down enemies. If you play him correctly you'll be leading the team 70% of the time.
    imho the healers from the most to the least fun: Ana > Lucio > Zen > Mercy (although Zen could be more fun now)
    Vhozon wrote: »
    I tend to only play him on Illos to boop people. Otherwise yes I do find him boring to play. Interestingly though I get a lot of melee kills with him.
    Lucio is very boring when played as a raw healer, which most people in comp think works for some reason. I personally only gravitate towards him on maps that have really fun wall ride opportunities (ex. Lijiang Garden/Tower, Anubis)

    That's just the thing. His speed boost is very powerful and versatile but for me personally, his overall gameplay is very underwhelming. With Ana, I can shut down healing, ults, and temporarily turn matches into 6v5's. She's also more appealing design-wise and I love the Metal Gear/Big Boss vibe, but Jet Set Radio's pretty cool too.
    Lucio is very boring when played as a raw healer, which most people in comp think works for some reason. I personally only gravitate towards him on maps that have really fun wall ride opportunities (ex. Lijiang Garden/Tower, Anubis)

    He's a great raw healer in the sense that he can get the whole team at once. He's all about positioning and knowing when to burn your amp. I did a comp match on Numbani the other day only playing Lucio and pulled 29k healing.

    You also have to understand that you aren't the primary healer. Lucio is more of a paramedic so to speak. You're supposed to keep teammates stable until the real doctor can get around to fixing them up

    That's the best way to put it. He can only do so much and if he's the sole healer then you need self-sustaining heroes (Soldier, Zarya, Roadhog, Tracer, Mei for examples who all also greatly benefit from the speed boost).

    My friend plays Lucio so I just leave that to him, and I just stick to Ana while my other friend plays Roadhog. We commonly triple que and I'm trying to get us to carry more but since they play No Limits and for fun, I dont even bother anymore. That said, I need heroes tips on triple ques (here are our common trios)

    Ana-Roadhog-Lucio
    Zarya/D.Va-Roadhog-Lucio
    Symmetra-Lucio-Torbjorn
    Pharmercy-Roadhog/Tracer
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    edited March 9
    There is really no synergy between Ana/Lucio/Hog other than being generally good picks for most games. There are heroes who benefit way more than Hog from the nanoboost+speed combo (Reaper for instance). Nano Hog is mostly good only to break Rein shield.
    Symmetra+Lucio on defense is redundant. The multiple turret setup can only work on certain maps (Hanamura A for instance).
    Other than Pharmacy and Zarya+Hog, I don't see much common work in those comps. If your friends are stuck playing Lucio and Hog you better just go Rein instead. And Tracer is probably a better pick than Hog to keep the hitscans busy and preventing them from shooting down Pharmacy.
    Post edited by OceanMachine on
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,595
    I occasionally use Tracer, but Reindhart I've only used a handful of times. Symmetra + Lucio, we just zip around speed-boosted while I microwave people, but I'll keep the Pharmercy+Tracer trio in mind. Is that a situational setup or good enough as Ana/Lucio/Hog picks?
    "Everyone in here has had someone who tried to convince them that they were sexually harassed, and you did not believe them because they were not cute."
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    edited March 9
    Should be good in every map Pharah is good, aka where there's a lot of verticality (= no Hanamura point B or Eichenwalde castle). You can go Hog eventually if they don't have a Rein or if the enemy team doesn't have a significant high ground advantage (= no Eichenwalde inside walls or Gibraltar hangar).
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,830
    I started to play Mercy more lately. I had one match where I was constantly annoyed by one of the team's DPS wanting me to Rez him every time he died. Not wasting a res to bring back just one person and one who can't keep himself alive.
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,595
    I've fallen so bad in the DPS/Tank/Ana/Zen pit that when I play Mercy, I literally alternate between shooting and healing. It's just as bad as DPS-ing with Ana because as Mercy, I'm like, "if I might as well pick off a couple of enemies myself and switch back to healing as and boosting."
    "Everyone in here has had someone who tried to convince them that they were sexually harassed, and you did not believe them because they were not cute."
  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Mercy needs more self-control over her mobility. I think her ideal role is flying around during the fight, always being there for allies who need healing. If she could move vertically on her own (i.e. without a Pharah), she would be much more dynamic and wouldn't have to hide so much. Worst case, this makes her too mobile and her self-heal should be put back to a 3 second delay like before.

    imo, looking at actual usage rates across comp ladders and pro play, the heroes most in need of buffs that haven't been buffed yet on PTR (aka not Sombra) are Hanzo, Junkrat, Torbjorn, and Reaper. Junkrat/Reaper really just need their skill caps raised so they exist outside or Bronze/Silver, but Hanzo and Torbjorn are consistently at abysmal pick rates across all ranks even compared to someone who sort of competes for their role (Widow as picker/sniper, Symmetra as builder/damage support).
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    edited March 9
    Man I can't fucking stand solo healing. It's the same shit everytime.

    Get picked by flankers or straight up focused by any half decent, organized team, my team then gets wiped

    "REZZZZZZ WHAT THE FUCK"
    "OMG OUR HEALER IS TRASH"
    Or my personal favorite,

    *teammate charges right into the enemy lines without communicating*, spams "I NEED HEALING WHEN THEY DIE".

    Shit is beyond stupid. I swear the longer the comp season goes the worse my teammates get. First few days I got consistenly good comps and picks, full teams with mics, coordinated play, etc. Now my comp games are barely distinguishable from regular QP.

    On God if you have no mic you shouldn't be allowed in comp. That and group chat as a thing just needs to go as it's completely pointless.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    That's why you only solo heal as Ana. Flanker on you = nade = debuff = dead
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  • SurremiesSurremies Joined: Posts: 714
    edited March 10
    It could be that I'm not going to bother with current Season at all since decay changes are too retarded. Simply put, the reasons are:

    1. Sometimes I just don't have that much time to play
    2. There's other competitive games like CS:GO that I just freaking love to play. (decay starts 10x slower)
    3. There's other non-competitive games that I just freaking love to play
    4. Sometimes I don't want to play at all even if I had time
    5. Forcing you to grind in order to maintain your status in such short time is retarded
    6. Forcing players to play increases toxicity in matches

    etc.
    "Every nerf makes its own tune.."
  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Surremies wrote: »
    Forcing players to play increases toxicity in matches

    This x100. Things are bad enough with people who want to play, and now this.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse Get ready for emanci-PAIN SON Joined: Posts: 8,359
    Omnicmeta usage report for S4 week 1 on console: http://www.omnicmeta.com/2017/03/console-competitive-ladder-s4w1.html
    overall.png

    The Bastion nerf hasn't hit console yet, so it's interesting to look at these stats. Despite having a "broken" 35% Ironclad, Dipshit: 76 still has a higher pickrate at all ranks, to the tune of a 10/15% difference. Pharah has a similar spike in GM to Tracer, and Mercy has a ridiculous pick rate (which is still lower than PC Ana).
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 6,979
    my first play of the game ;_;
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    edited March 10
    In other news, it has been confirmed that Symmetra is autistic. And I thought people were just flaming me for my cliff tps!
    Post edited by OceanMachine on
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  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    edited March 10
    Does anyone else hate the 2CP maps? The rules and maps seem designed to force draws. If Offense gets like two pics its impossible to contest the first point as defense, but then its absurdly hard to cap the 2nd point.

    Instead of the stupid Overtime shit, I'd like a tiebreaker system based on the checkpoint ticks on capping, or failing that based on point 1 cap speed. Played a game on Anubis that ended up a draw, even though we capped point 1 several minutes faster and got two ticks on point two where they got none.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,830
    I like Hanamura and Anubis. Volskaya Industries can eat a dick when on attack.
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  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,708
    I like Hanamura and Anubis. Volskaya Industries can eat a dick when on attack.

    I like them too, but that doesn't change the fact they are poorly designed.

    Like how idiotic would payload maps be if they counted pushing 50m and 100m as they same thing bc they both technically only got 2 checkpoints?

    Also, there are too many times when the attack team has barely started capping point 1 but bc it takes defense so absurdly long to get back they may as well not even try to contest after respawning.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,266
    I think like 90% of the community hates 2CP.
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