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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    delete_me wrote: »
    They could've made rez CD 45 secs or removed the ability entirely for the game, but oh well, you can't really expect Blizzard to be able to balance a game.

    They also could have put a big red arrow pointing at Mercy all the time so people learn to kill her first but oh well, you can't really expect them to do the thinking for your flankers.

    Rez is an issue way beyond just being able to kill Mercy.
    Also good luck killing Valk Mercy. Even top 500 hitscans have troubles with that.

    Then the top 500 hitscans just need to learn how to counter an Ult with an Ult. Just like the Lucios and Zenyattas have been doing defensively since Day One.
    Soldier or McCree can get rid of Valkyrie Mercy really quickly with their Ults. Of course most DPS players would rather blow it whenever they feel they can get a multikill instead of using it intelligently.

    I just don't see the issue with Mercy on any level. Old Rez (the Ult) was kind of stupid on 2CP Maps because she could respawn and revive the entire team but current Mercy just proves that people are unable to approach different characters in different ways and would rather just shoot every red outline that runs across their screen no matter what character it is. And since Mercy never runs around at the front people target her last and then complain about Rez.
  • CDB2CDB2 Joined: Posts: 3,168
    edited October 18
    Mercy nerf is now live.

    crying-man-o.gif?w=320&h=179

    I just got Witch Mercy this weekend, and now she gets touched by the nerf bat!

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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,580
    Why is that in Junkenstein Endless, everyone but me ignores the zomnics and riptires destroying the door and instead jump into the lap of the first boss they see? Like, I'm only playing through nine times to get the most experience as well as my weekly lootboxes but damn, the three of them do not have to gangbang the Reaper and leave one person to take on thirty zomnics.
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    edited October 19
    delete_me wrote: »
    delete_me wrote: »
    They could've made rez CD 45 secs or removed the ability entirely for the game, but oh well, you can't really expect Blizzard to be able to balance a game.

    They also could have put a big red arrow pointing at Mercy all the time so people learn to kill her first but oh well, you can't really expect them to do the thinking for your flankers.

    Rez is an issue way beyond just being able to kill Mercy.
    Also good luck killing Valk Mercy. Even top 500 hitscans have troubles with that.

    Then the top 500 hitscans just need to learn how to counter an Ult with an Ult. Just like the Lucios and Zenyattas have been doing defensively since Day One.
    Soldier or McCree can get rid of Valkyrie Mercy really quickly with their Ults. Of course most DPS players would rather blow it whenever they feel they can get a multikill instead of using it intelligently.

    I just don't see the issue with Mercy on any level. Old Rez (the Ult) was kind of stupid on 2CP Maps because she could respawn and revive the entire team but current Mercy just proves that people are unable to approach different characters in different ways and would rather just shoot every red outline that runs across their screen no matter what character it is. And since Mercy never runs around at the front people target her last and then complain about Rez.

    Here are the issues with current Mercy:
    1. rez encourages people to play like idiots. In a normal FPS, if you're in a bad position you'll get punished by getting killed. Who cares about positioning though if a Mercy can just fly in and rez you wherever you are? Before the last patch she could literally rez someone, than turn around and slingshot herself to the other side of the map with GA, meaning that Mercy wasn't often punished either for rezzing someone out of position. And even now, GA's cooldown is still low enough to allow her to escape many times.
    2. she outclasses any other healers for her utility with a much lower skill cap to play her. If there's a Mercy in your team, every team fight will be a 7v6 unless they have a Mercy too. People can now just run 4 dps in comp just because there's almost no point in running a second healer with how good she is at supporting her team. She has become Ana 2.0, but with an ability that's even more impactful on the game that her nade. Ana mains are currently getting reported for throwing if they don't play Mercy and even the Koreans are starting to abandon her; that's how bad it is.
    3. She makes all classes based on one shot mechanics worthless, including the ones who require some form of skill like Widow or Hanzo. Getting a pick as a sniper is something that might not come out very often but has a high impact on the game; now you need to kill at least two people every time to get the value off your pick.
    4. Valk Mercy can't be killed as easy as you make it sound because she has a GA that allows her to basically teleport to cover when needed. She really has to be extremely out of position to become a target for those auto-aim ults. It's also the transformation ult that gives the highest mobility and survivability in the game. On top of that, she builds it way faster than any other dps ult, which means she will have it for more fights than the ones where you can blow up your ult to kill her.

    I get that ever-rezzing Mercy makes people feel powerful and that there's a demand for a relatively low skill hero you can help your team with, but balance wise current Mercy is terrible by any point of view and it can only have a negative impact on the game competitively speaking. She kills support variety, she turns mistakes into acceptable plays and makes the game way more boring by making team fights last forever. She can't be healthy for the game.
    At least when rez was an ult once it was out it was out for a good while, and you could indeed prevent her from building it simply by killing her; now even when you kill Mercy you won't prevent her from having rez the next fight. So we just replaced one issue with another bigger one.
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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    1. It really does not. If there's a Junkrat on our team who thinks it's a good idea to camp at the spawn of the attackers and then (obviously) die during the incoming 1vs6 there's no way Mercy can get in there, revive him and get back to her team alive. She can only safely revive people on 'her' side of the map or wherever there's a bunch of team memmbers cobbled together and usually that means there weren't playing like idiots.

    2. Disagree. She makes Ana kind of redundant, that's true and a balancing issue Blizzard needs to adress. However the changes to her made having one of the other three supports way more important than ever before because she can't undo Gravity team wipes anymore. So you either need a Lucio or Zen to prevent said teamwipes or a Sym to teleport everyone back after they died. If you're playing defense and Mercy's your only support you're going to get wrecked.

    3. Same issue as always: Widowmaker needs to one-shot Mercy first, problem solved.

    4. It really is that simple. Yes, she can escape but realizing where Soldier/McCree are standing and then using GA to get to a properly positioned teammate before she gets shot isn't just 'teleporting to cover', it's either a lucky escape or death. And DPS characters can build Ult pretty fast as well, I don't think there's an imbalance at work there.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    edited October 19
    The Junkrat dying at spawn is not a realistic situation. But say your Rein has ult, he charges in randomly through a choke and dies; you can rez him, he shatters and he team wipes. This is not made up, it actually happened in games.
    Or let's say I play Pharah on attack, I get through a choke, kill one but die myself. In a normal gameplay situation I would've made a dumb mistake, since trades favor defense. But here my team pushes in and creates space for Mercy to come and rez me: we are now 6v5 and can win the fight. Another very realistic situation that might've happened to me a couple times.
    In both cases you turned a dumb play into a game winning move. And that's what rez does; you can be way more careless and yolo because you get an extra life for your mistakes. I don't get how you can blame dps or snipers for not being able to kill an extremely mobile character with a small hitbox and health regen but then being okay with an ability that excuses garbage positioning and discourages you from learning fps basics.

    Also you don't need a 4 men rez to counter a grav. You can rez the tanks and pocket them to hold the point until the respawns come back. Valk is way more powerful as a stalling ult than you think it is.

    P.S. while I was writing this I was watching a GM stream where a Rein overextended on payload to shatter and died as a result, but got instarezzed and they managed to win the fight. How can you accept a competitive game where this shit happens?
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,511
    Sometimes Mercy strats do lead to suicide bombs. I've seen it a bunch of times when Pharah has ulted and died (as she often does) only to get rezzed.

    Pharah/Mercy/Zarya is actually incredibly popular right now, even at high level.
  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    How can you accept a competitive game where this shit happens?

    The same way I have to accept all the other shit in this game. Hanzo one-shotting me as Zarya with Scatter Arrow, Junkrat getting four Ults every game, Tracer being Tracer, Hook into pitfall out of nowhere, Pharmercy in general. If I start looking at those as imbalanced BS that ruins the game I'd stop playing Overwatch altogether. Rez is a strong tool that needs to be worked around from the opposing team. And if Mercy reviving two tanks is enough to stall an entire team to get the win, then our team just wasn't that good and deserved the loss.
  • VhoziteVhozite Free Meek Mill Joined: Posts: 3,518
    edited October 20
    Rez is one of my favorite things in the game but I'm gonna have to agree with OceanMachine.

    Even with the nerfs current Mercy is over centralizing to the game. You are forced to pick her first to make any sort of move, where as with the other 3 supports it's a good idea but not necessary. Not having her on your team puts you at an immediate disadvantage if she is on the other team. Also, for probably over 90% of the playerbase she is the only reliable main healer.

    Now to be fair part of the problem is how sparse the support section is. But as is Mercy is not healthy for the game. Hell I play on console and I wouldn't be surprised if her pick rate was 100% in comp.

    I think the biggest issue here is that Mercy is among the best at keeping people alive AND the only one capable of helping you after death.
  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,580
    Truthfully I've grown to enjoy the new Mercy, but at this point they should just revert her back to when she had multiple rez. Sure, it sucked having your awesome teamplay instantly erased, but at least she didn't have it available at hand and it was an ultimate overall, so if Mercy used it and the enemy team conserved their ults, they can counter it. Rez has been in the game for so long and now it's become a problem due to it becoming an E ability.
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,580
    That said, I think the supports in general have been getting shafted minus Symmetra. Ana was nerfed because she was the queen of tank meta and flankers couldn't dive her (whomp whomp) and now she can barely do damage, let alone not be seen as a troll pick. Lucio was considered boring and thus he was reworked with faster DPS and mobility at the cost of decreased healing and speed boosting range, but later had his speed inadvertently nerfed with the recent Mercy GA tweaks, and as I recall people complained that he was a must pick. Zen can barely dish out healing as it was and at one point could discord through shields, but I can't really say much on that.

    Pertaining to Symmetra, on a personal note, I wish people on the Blizzard would stop trying to make her into a healer. She's not meant to be one.
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,511
    I think the game is better when you just accept whatever state it's in and don't complain about it. You just play your best with what's available.
  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    Dramatix wrote: »
    Zen can barely dish out healing as it was and at one point could discord through shields, but I can't really say much on that.

    No idea why they even toyed with the idea that his Orb passes through shields.
    Zen is pretty much perfectly balanced right now and one of very few heroes who should just remain as they are now unless there's going to be a dramatic shift in overall balance due to new heroes/reworks.
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,159
    FrostyAU wrote: »
    I think the game is better when you just accept whatever state it's in and don't complain about it. You just play your best with what's available.
    Facts. I've played mostly Tracer this season (did placements last week lol) and I'm 200 SR away from Master now.
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    delete_me wrote: »
    How can you accept a competitive game where this shit happens?

    The same way I have to accept all the other shit in this game. Hanzo one-shotting me as Zarya with Scatter Arrow, Junkrat getting four Ults every game, Tracer being Tracer, Hook into pitfall out of nowhere, Pharmercy in general. If I start looking at those as imbalanced BS that ruins the game I'd stop playing Overwatch altogether. Rez is a strong tool that needs to be worked around from the opposing team. And if Mercy reviving two tanks is enough to stall an entire team to get the win, then our team just wasn't that good and deserved the loss.

    None of those other tools breaks the logics of an FPS in the way rez does. None of those other tools is as easy to pull off and deprived of counterplay as rez is (except matrix and maybe scatter). None of those other tools extend teamfights endlessly, none of those other tools excuses your garbage plays like rez does. None of those other tools makes mandatory to have a Mercy in your team if you don't want to lose.
    You're telling high ranked players and pros - who likely have more than one idea of how to work around difficult situations - to "git gud" against one of the easiest heroes to play with one of the most powerful abilities available at any time. You want DPS to overperform and get two consecutive picks every team fight, yet you're okay with supports getting massive rewards with minimal effort. No wonder nobody wants to play this game anymore if some people think this kind of balance makes sense.

    And the sad thing is, if you don't count Mercy this game's meta is in the most balanced and open state it has ever been since maybe the beginning of S4 or even launch. Every tank is viable right now, no DPS is totally not worth playing (except Doomfist - but it has mostly to do with his bugs and the fact Hog, Junk and Cree are back in the meta) and none of them is particularly OP (although Junkrat's mine damage could be reduced a little). Once they fix the balance between supports the game will be okay, and it's in their best interest to do it quickly, otherwise the first season of OWL will be a complete disaster.
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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    Thank you randoms and leavers, dropped back to Gold after losing 600SR.

    Gold is such a shitshow. I'm honestly surprised people at that level and below actually continue playing this game because you could just forgo everything and roll some dices to get the result. Definitely going on a long break after this event.
  • CHIEfyCHIEfy Joined: Posts: 1,159
    Now I'm +3400 SR close to Master rank.

    I can smell this shit man!
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  • NeesaNeesa Ric Flair drip go WOOO on a bitch. Joined: Posts: 7,135
    edited October 24
    I did my placements 2 weeks ago. Placed into Master. Never touched comp.

    I hate Mercy. I hate when I try to play another another role, the idiot on Mercy has the positioning of a brick wall and the awareness of a turd sliding down a wall. I hate that you have to have her on your team or you’re just a hindering your team by not having to res your teammates that gets insta-picked off from the Hanzo/Widow and want everyone up for the push.

    Please make Ana great again so I can hang up my wings again.
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  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 6,821
    delete_me wrote: »
    Thank you randoms and leavers, dropped back to Gold after losing 600SR.

    Gold is such a shitshow. I'm honestly surprised people at that level and below actually continue playing this game because you could just forgo everything and roll some dices to get the result. Definitely going on a long break after this event.

    Same here. Ive been off about a month. I honestly have been trying to play with some srk peeps cause I think a lot of people here got boosted/carried.
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 9,717 mod
    Played a bit, had a Mercy in every game, if we didn't have one we're fucked and a friend had to fill.

    It's a no from me Overwatch.
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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    edited October 24
    I just had Gold healing with Roadhog. Junkrat was right, it's anarchy. Awful Gold people teaming up with horribly awful Silver people to make my day. How do I get out of here? What's the button to press for law and order?
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    You play comp in the last week of the season at your own risk.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 9,717 mod
    You play comp in the last week of the season at your own risk.

    or at any timepoint.
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  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 6,821
    delete_me wrote: »
    I just had Gold healing with Roadhog. Junkrat was right, it's anarchy. Awful Gold people teaming up with horribly awful Silver people to make my day. How do I get out of here? What's the button to press for law and order?

    If you only had 1 healer it's not hard to get gold healing with roadhog.
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,027 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Shit I've had 2 healers and gold healing as Hog, people really are bad at support. I miss old Hog where you could almost carry your sorry ass team.
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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 260
    edited October 24
    You play comp in the last week of the season at your own risk.

    Quickplay is the same shit, only difference being that matches are over faster and quitters get refilled. The overall experience below Platinum is god awful no matter what mode and I fucking hate that losing due to teammates leaving is the primary reason I can't climb up again. Why punish six people instead of just one?
  • jae hoonjae hoon Flames of Justice Joined: Posts: 13,027 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    delete_me wrote: »
    You play comp in the last week of the season at your own risk.

    Quickplay is the same shit, only difference being that matches are over faster and quitters get refilled. The overall experience below Platinum is god awful no matter what mode and I fucking hate that losing due to teammates leaving is the primary reason I can't climb up again. Why punish six people instead of just one?

    Because Actiblizz doesn't give a fuck about you, they want that casual lootbox money.
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    Well what can they do? Nobody would want to backfill comp games. If you could just quit a game where there's a leaver with no penalty the system would become infinitely abuseable. There's literally nothing they can do outside handing out heavier punishments for leavers, which is what they're already doing.
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  • NeesaNeesa Ric Flair drip go WOOO on a bitch. Joined: Posts: 7,135
    edited October 24
    It’s only so much they can do, in regards to leavers. Other than punish the leaver harder and make the SR loss not as substantial for the rest. But that can be abused too. It’s shitty no matter what you do.

    I went 5 wins, 4 losses and 1 draw during placements and got placed at 3527. I just let my SR decay so when I do placements, I’ll sfill be at Masters MMR and just place there. I’ve lost any enjoyment for the game, especially comp. I do enough to get a gol weapon at the end of the season.
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  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,580
    edited October 26
    Got my silver boarder last night while playing FFA. Consistently placed Top 4 as Mercy (either 2nd or 4th), but here the McCree in 1st made me his winning kill. I used to play FFA a lot in Tomb Raider so I was right at home in this mode. Might play it a lot more now.

    Post edited by Dramatix on
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  • FrostyAUFrostyAU Lynx in your sinks Joined: Posts: 8,511
    Been playing a lot of Paladins lately.

    It's not really the Overwatch clone everyone says it is. The cards and items make it a lot like DOTA and it's missing a lot of FPS staples like crouching and melee attacks.

    There is definitely some Overwatch there, don't get me wrong, but it's different enough that it's hard to just call it a rip off. It would be like saying Torchlight is just a Diablo rip off or CoD is just counter-strike.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    edited October 27
    I finished this season at 2783. I wanted to play the final game to get to 2.8k+ but my internet started dcing randomly and my spacebar is broken, so I didn't want to push my luck too much.
    After a season of basically one tricking Pharah I think I start feeling kinda tired of the hero. From mid plat on people start actually being able to line their crosshairs on my hitbox; add to that that Mercys keep refusing to pocket me, that nobody at that elo plays flankers to finish off the targets I hit with my rockets and that tanks completely deny me space to flank (especially Dva and Hog) or put up an insane amount of barriers and playing the hero has become way less fun for me. I started missing shots to the point I'm not comfortable anymore playing the hero, except on KotH and 2CP/hybrid attack (I just hate payload maps), and as a result I played a lot of tanks plus Junkrat. Junk just seems currently to be able to do Pharah's job way more easily and with much less risk involved when your team doesn't want to work with you.
    Right now I'm starting to play Reaper more because I'm tired of Hog in general and I'm tired of long range battles where hitscans have the advantage. Guess the Laura/Leo player in me keeps demanding for more unga lol.

    In other news, a nerf to rez is due to come on PTR soon:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759395949
    Maybe I could actually enjoy playing flanker again.
    Post edited by OceanMachine on
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  • AKIAKI R.E.L.A.X Joined: Posts: 883
    2783?! Terrible. Absolutely terrible. I thought you were a GOD nigga.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 9,717 mod
    imagine not being at least diamond
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  • AKIAKI R.E.L.A.X Joined: Posts: 883
    Diamond is still shit if we're talking about PC
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  • AKIAKI R.E.L.A.X Joined: Posts: 883
    Imagine not going into competitive by yourself
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 9,879
    What do you mean? I solo queue and I have a 70% winrate.
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