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Blizzard Overwatch

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  • MatriarchMatriarch Lilim Joined: Posts: 2,867
    Mercy looks like Azula from The Last Airbender in her Phoenix event skin.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    edited February 9
    Defense is still pretty pointless in the new CTF. The only moment when you would want to go with a defensive comp is when you're 2-0 and you want to stall until the end. The best strategy is simply to push all 6 together, if you win the fight you can have one person escorting the flag carrier and the rest just snowball and pick the new flag as it respawns. I've seen people go full cancer when they were losing and well, they couldn't obviously score any point.
    Quad tank+Moira+Lucio seems to be the standard at this point; have Hog take the flag, bubble him with Zarya and he can just gtfo while vaping. There's not much you can do about that.

    I'm still not very fond of this game mode, although the new map for it is very pretty.
    Also it's pretty hilarious seeing the Tracers/Sombras/Lucios trying to backcap by themselves, then ending up using recall/translocator/speed boost and dropping the flag.
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  • TrunksSS3TrunksSS3 S3ntinel DestroysALL Joined: Posts: 328 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited February 9
    Try to give CTF another try and went 1-2 lol it was kind of more fun then before, but at least i didn't have any matches that ended in a tie .... or went up against a cancerous team that would just spawn camp their flag camping.
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  • SurremiesSurremies Joined: Posts: 737
    edited February 10
    ES_Curse wrote: »
    I'm interested to hear how TF2 requires more movement than OW.
    To simplify, movement isn't tied to pressing / holding one button like in Overwatch. It rather follows the route of Quake and other old-school shooters that didn't try to simplify the mechanics.

    That's all there is.
    "Every nerf makes its own tune.."
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 3,333
    So if Reaper was in TF2 you could go Wraith by tilting the stick all the way?
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    edited February 10
    More like you would be able to run faster in wraith if you press jump+strafe and move your mouse in a certain direction at the same time.
    The only movement options that are somewhat similar to Quake or TF2 in OW are helix jumping with Soldier and conc boosting with Pharah, but they are both limited by the long cooldowns on those abilities. Rocket jumping with Pharah (or Zarya who can do the same) is very easy and linear since you can't really decide the angle at which you're launching yourself up. Also with the amount of damage you take from a single rocket jump you are not encouraged to do multiple ones.
    This is one of the main reasons why I like Junkrat, since at least with the double/triple mine you can be more creative now with your mobility. But still, you can't even launch yourself horizontally with a mine, it will always boops you vertically no matter where you place it and how far you are from it.
    Quake and TF2 are probably the closest games to OW in terms of pace and mechanics, yet if you played any of them you can feel how much Blizzard purposefully limited the skill ceiling to appeal the casuals.
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse goodbye everyone Joined: Posts: 8,595
    I mean, on one hand I understand the desire to have a higher skill ceiling. On the other hand, a big feature of the game is hero-switching. If the heroes had high mechanical skill ceilings, either they would have to be transferable to each other or it would discourage a basic feature of the game. It also makes the game more viewer friendly, as "use blink to cross through the opponent" is easier to follow than "have an in-game seizure to be harder to hit".
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,915 mod
    "When going up against the Spitfire, their biggest problem was the Junkrat - so they thought, why not use Junkrat ourselves?"

    Just came back to post about how Junkrat is about as dumb as Abigail being top tier in SFV

    I love characters who make skillgaps irrelevant
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    OlBoq7n.png

    Meanwhile Tracer...
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  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 545
    I don't know about PC but Tracer has been broken on console since day one and nobody ever talks about it. The moment one team has a good Tracer it's auto-win because she steamrolls everyone and her only 'counter' is being discorded and getting hit by some stray bullets. Maybe on PC McCree can kind of work but then again she can finish off 200 health characters with one clip so I don't know.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse goodbye everyone Joined: Posts: 8,595
    Pick Torb for unavoidable damage and armoring key targets against her.
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • BB_HoodyBB_Hoody Nice plane you have there. Be a Shame if something went wrong in flight and it crashed Joined: Posts: 5,127
    Maybe I'm just playing bad tracers because I'm in gold. But as Winston im able to give her a hard time. I don't hard counter her but I am able to minimize her effectiveness.

    Landing a melee jump pack landing combo puts her at less than half health forcing her to recall right away. And bubble will negate some damage. They usually respect my space and leave the backline alone, unless they see I have used my abilities.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    Yes, you're playing bad Tracers.
    And yes, Tracer is a problem on PC too. There's a reason why there have been 4-5 Tracer mains in top 10 in every region during the last 5 seasons. She just goes under the radar because she's considered as a high skill hero, even if other high skill heroes don't have such high dps and 4 chances to escape everything.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy Serving my robot overlords <3 Joined: Posts: 13,200
    Would be nice if there was a good cqc mechanic instead of the crappy melee attack. Would do me wonders if mobile targets.
  • ES_CurseES_Curse goodbye everyone Joined: Posts: 8,595
    Would be nice if there was a good cqc mechanic instead of the crappy melee attack. Would do me wonders if mobile targets.

    Doomfist
    Who cares if it's hard to hit, you only have to hit them once
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 3,333
    edited February 11
    More like you would be able to run faster in wraith if you press jump+strafe and move your mouse in a certain direction at the same time.

    But we're pressing a button to initiate Wraith, right?

    I mean I generally agree with you, but after a mere question even you adjusted to include that an input would be required.

    Nothing wrong with streamlining mechanics.
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  • DarkGeneralDarkGeneral Joined: Posts: 4,561
    delete_me wrote: »
    I don't know about PC but Tracer has been broken on console since day one and nobody ever talks about it. The moment one team has a good Tracer it's auto-win because she steamrolls everyone and her only 'counter' is being discorded and getting hit by some stray bullets. Maybe on PC McCree can kind of work but then again she can finish off 200 health characters with one clip so I don't know.

    Sombra is a solid counter. Hacked Tracer is a useless character, and once she's been hacked twice or thrice they typically change up their style.
  • SurremiesSurremies Joined: Posts: 737
    More like you would be able to run faster in wraith if you press jump+strafe and move your mouse in a certain direction at the same time.
    The only movement options that are somewhat similar to Quake or TF2 in OW are helix jumping with Soldier and conc boosting with Pharah, but they are both limited by the long cooldowns on those abilities. Rocket jumping with Pharah (or Zarya who can do the same) is very easy and linear since you can't really decide the angle at which you're launching yourself up. Also with the amount of damage you take from a single rocket jump you are not encouraged to do multiple ones.
    This is one of the main reasons why I like Junkrat, since at least with the double/triple mine you can be more creative now with your mobility. But still, you can't even launch yourself horizontally with a mine, it will always boops you vertically no matter where you place it and how far you are from it.
    Quake and TF2 are probably the closest games to OW in terms of pace and mechanics, yet if you played any of them you can feel how much Blizzard purposefully limited the skill ceiling to appeal the casuals.
    Pretty much this.

    My earlier post was way too vague and pissed off in order to describe what I was up to.
    "Every nerf makes its own tune.."
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    Tracer will probably move out of hack range as long as she starts hearing the hack sound cue. Although with the shorter cast time that will come soon on PTR even she might start having issues.
    More like you would be able to run faster in wraith if you press jump+strafe and move your mouse in a certain direction at the same time.

    But we're pressing a button to initiate Wraith, right?

    I mean I generally agree with you, but after a mere question even you adjusted to include that an input would be required.

    Nothing wrong with streamlining mechanics.

    The fact is that it limits the skill ceiling considerably. In Quake strafe jumping will increase your movement speed dramatically, so those who master the technique will be able to move through the map faster and in erratic ways while the others won't. In OW though all movement abilities have predictable patterns or are heavily limited by their cooldowns. There's no difference between the Bronze and the T500 Genji in how Swift Strike works, the only difference is choosing where to use it and aiming it decently.
    Like man I love Pharah's mobility, but why is conc on a 12s CD while Junkrat has two mines on 8s CD each? Why does a single rocket jump take away 20% of my HP and Junkrat takes no damage off his own conc mines? Why can't I boost myself off walls to rocket jump horizontally and not just vertically? Why does it take ages to fall down and I have no way to control that? So many things that limit your creativity in how you use the environment to move around.
    Honestly I think half of the reasons people started playing dive is that with those heroes you feel you can go the fuck you want. I know for sure that mobility is one of the main reasons many people main Mercy.
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  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,992
    Rocket jump? Like shooting the ground to get some air? I'm not sure why you'd be doing that when well, her boost would get you a lot more air and doesn't hurt you at all. I don't think that's a valid complaint. Her jetpack not being able to be used on a sort of forward angle or whatnot does seem a little odd though, but hey.
  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,915 mod
    edited February 12
    OlBoq7n.png

    Meanwhile Tracer...

    But you know what's good about Tracer? She has a skill ceiling, and she isn't a character anyone can play and see results with. The reason she's played so much at high level, is because the best players in the world can take the character with the highest skill ceiling the furthest - this is good balancing.

    Junkrat however, can make a bronze player compete at diamond level without anyone batting an eyelid, as the skill floor to skill ceiling is so small. This is the same issue Mercy posed, with Mercy players who were high ELO without being deserving of it. This, to me, is very poor balancing.

    What I HEAVILY dislike about the balancing formula behind Overwatch, is that heroes who create blurs in the skillgaps keep being relevant generalist picks, rather than niche picks. To me this is Blizzard's way of padding out frustration from players with poorer accuracy who can't play the higher skillcapped heroes like Genji, Tracer, Zen, Widow etc. Create less aim dependent heroes like Junkrat to even out the odds of a player with 50% general accuracy, to a player with 20% general accuracy.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy Serving my robot overlords <3 Joined: Posts: 13,200
    Froztey wrote: »
    OlBoq7n.png

    Meanwhile Tracer...

    But you know what's good about Tracer? She has a skill ceiling, and she isn't a character anyone can play and see results with. The reason she's played so much at high level, is because the best players in the world can take the character with the highest skill ceiling the furthest - this is good balancing.

    Junkrat however, can make a bronze player compete at diamond level without anyone batting an eyelid, as the skill floor to skill ceiling is so small. This is the same issue Mercy posed, with Mercy players who were high ELO without being deserving of it. This, to me, is very poor balancing.

    What I HEAVILY dislike about the balancing formula behind Overwatch, is that heroes who create blurs in the skillgaps keep being relevant generalist picks, rather than niche picks. To me this is Blizzard's way of padding out frustration from players with poorer accuracy who can't play the higher skillcapped heroes like Genji, Tracer, Zen, Widow etc. Create less aim dependent heroes like Junkrat to even out the odds of a player with 50% general accuracy, to a player with 20% general accuracy.

    Excuse me?
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    I don't think you played much Junkrat to think his skill ceiling is close to his skill floor. His nades are harder to hit at medium range than pretty much any projectile in the game bar Torb's primary fire; mastering the arc of the nade to hit people far away or the ricochets to hit people behind you or behind corners takes time as well. You can't even spam mines freely because if there's a hitscan around they will easily destroy you while you're slowly floating towards the ground. And for how broken Tire is, it's harder to get two kills with it than for Genji to get a 4k with Blade.
    There's a reason why despite the buffs he's still played in tournaments less than Genji, Tracer or Widow and mostly in specific comps (the Orisa/Hog ones). His flaws in dueling or getting kills didn't magically disappear with the second mine.

    Besides, Tracer is really like Junkrat in that she doesn't need to get kills to be effective, she can just be in the back distracting the enemy team and she will still be doing her job. I watched Dafran cast bronze games, you could see Tracers with the worst tracking in history that still dominated the match. Why? Because they were too busy trying to follow her to focus on the fight, and if you get 5 more opportunities than any other characters to land a shot you will eventually do it.
    LivewireX wrote: »
    Rocket jump? Like shooting the ground to get some air? I'm not sure why you'd be doing that when well, her boost would get you a lot more air and doesn't hurt you at all. I don't think that's a valid complaint. Her jetpack not being able to be used on a sort of forward angle or whatnot does seem a little odd though, but hey.

    Because jet pack is on a 8s cooldown and thrusts you vertically always at the same height, speed and direction? With a Quake-like rocket jump you could shoot one rocket on the ground and another on a wall to propel yourself forward and dive the enemies, but currently you have to use two cooldown abilities or take 40 damage and use an ability with 12s CD. Honestly I'd give up on the blast effect for the enemies if Pharah could have two charges of conc and a shorter cooldown.
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  • FrozteyFroztey Break the Cuffs Joined: Posts: 10,915 mod
    My entire point is Junkrat still excels even at professional levels without that accuracy requirement.

    LMAO tire harder to get kills with than blade. Holy shit. Ima take my leave again, what the fuck is this autism.
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  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    edited February 12
    3ge0X3l.png

    Even at the lowest percentiles Genji gets overall more kills with Blade than Junkrat with Tire.
    In OWL triple or quad kills with Blades happen almost every day, yet casters get enthousiast when Junkrat gets two kills with his ult. Why? Tire has half the HP Genji has, it can't be healed, it doesn't have deflect to protect itself nor double jump/dash to make the movement ambiguous, it can't kill characters that are spread across the map and it still leaves Junkrat entirely vulnerable during its entire casting. Genji's Blade also benefits from a massive hitbox without damage falloff that goes through barriers.

    Junkrat works at pro level just because they build teams that make him work. And yet every time you look at a Junk vs Tracer duel it's clear who's winning.
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  • ES_CurseES_Curse goodbye everyone Joined: Posts: 8,595
    And yet every time you look at a Junk vs Tracer duel it's clear who's winning.

    Nobody; Tracer runs into a trap and dies to Junkrat's passive
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • LivewireXLivewireX Joined: Posts: 5,992
    Sure I'd like Concussive's Cooldown to be 10 seconds instead of 12, but I don't really consider it something that ruins Pharah's gameplan. And if you're worried about landing too often, you should still be getting your Boost back in most cases before you hit the ground again if you use it right. I say this even with what appears to be recently put in increases to her fall speed/speed fuel goes down.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    edited February 12
    You don't want to hang out in the air with Pharah unless you have a pocket Mercy or cover around you. But Pharah is designed around staying in the air... which explains why her pickrate declines rapidly above plat and she's picked only in certain maps and if they don't have hitscans.
    Those are just my preferences anyway; I started playing Junk over Pharah because I can do basically the same thing with more control over my mobility and without being a sitting duck for hitscans through the entire game.
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  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 7,171
    you play junk cause you cant aim and have no skill
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    That's what T500 Tracers say when I kill them with direct nades in FFA ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 3,333
    Genji is poorly designed character who odd moveset gives rhe illusion that he's a high skill character when really he has a really cool double jump and wall crawl.
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  • LordxMugenLordxMugen FIGHTAN GAHMS!!! Joined: Posts: 702
    Genji is poorly designed character who odd moveset gives rhe illusion that he's a high skill character when really he has a really cool double jump and wall crawl.
    wasnt he initially designed as a mobile melee character until the devs realized that mobile melee characters in an FPS with no depth perception are the worst designed characters in history?

    *silently waits for Darkstalkers 4*
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 3,333
    LordxMugen wrote: »
    Genji is poorly designed character who odd moveset gives rhe illusion that he's a high skill character when really he has a really cool double jump and wall crawl.
    wasnt he initially designed as a mobile melee character until the devs realized that mobile melee characters in an FPS with no depth perception are the worst designed characters in history?

    If more melee attacks dealt a degree of hitstop and hitstun to help acclimate a player it wouldn't be an issue. And that aside, I'm way past trusting what Blizzard thinks is best for the player.

    Prototype Genji was probably badass and fun.
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  • LordxMugenLordxMugen FIGHTAN GAHMS!!! Joined: Posts: 702
    LordxMugen wrote: »
    Genji is poorly designed character who odd moveset gives rhe illusion that he's a high skill character when really he has a really cool double jump and wall crawl.
    wasnt he initially designed as a mobile melee character until the devs realized that mobile melee characters in an FPS with no depth perception are the worst designed characters in history?

    If more melee attacks dealt a degree of hitstop and hitstun to help acclimate a player it wouldn't be an issue. And that aside, I'm way past trusting what Blizzard thinks is best for the player.

    Prototype Genji was probably badass and fun.
    If the assassin class from Lawbreakers is any indication of what could have been, Im pretty sure it would have been a nightmare.

    *silently waits for Darkstalkers 4*
  • ES_CurseES_Curse goodbye everyone Joined: Posts: 8,595
    Genji with infinite Dragonblade but reduced damage
    that's what it was, basically
    formerly just5moreminutes. I guess the clock ran out.
  • delete_medelete_me Joined: Posts: 545
    Genji is a bit of a mystery to me. Personally I think he's zero fun and I've never used him outside training mode but at least in Platinum he seems to be the most popular character by a very wide margin.
  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy Serving my robot overlords <3 Joined: Posts: 13,200
    edited February 13
    A melee only character woulda been great. Sadly the cloest thing to that is rein. They made genji's ult a 5m range with a massive hitbox :rofl:. Really hard to miss with it. And you can't outrun him either.
  • OceanMachineOceanMachine ROCKET LAUNCHER GOD Joined: Posts: 10,740
    iirc Genji is by far the most played hero in QP and Genji+Hanzo are the favorite heroes among the male audience. I guess part of it is due to the fantasy of being a badass ninja and the other part is because it makes insecure players feel like they're playing a very high skill character.
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  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 7,171
    It's just autism
    There aren't 50 hours in a 5 day span...
    CRYING
  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy Serving my robot overlords <3 Joined: Posts: 13,200
    iirc Genji is by far the most played hero in QP and Genji+Hanzo are the favorite heroes among the male audience. I guess part of it is due to the fantasy of being a badass ninja and the other part is because it makes insecure players feel like they're playing a very high skill character.

    Pretty sure it's because both are japanese and inja-like. If they didn't have those qualities they wouldn't be as relevant guaranteed.

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