Pocket Rumble: 2D indie fighter on Kickstarter RIGHT NOW!

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Comments

  • KristophKristoph sing my lullaby Joined: Posts: 430
    ^ i agree, but for sort of the opposite reason, in a way. game has the potential for pretty big non-fgc appeal imo, kind of like if divekick didn't have the really impenetrable in-jokes and whatnot.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    Kristoph wrote: »
    ^ i agree, but for sort of the opposite reason, in a way. game has the potential for pretty big non-fgc appeal imo, kind of like if divekick didn't have the really impenetrable in-jokes and whatnot.
    Or if DiveKick didn't somehow feel like a big joke/parody overall.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    Yeah, home consoles are pretty unlikely for a bunch of reasons. Portable consoles are a really nice fit, though! We've thought about a smartphone port on top of Vita/3DS, but it's challenging because we would NOT do the virtual buttons thing so many ports do, those always suck.
  • Jinzer0Jinzer0 Ol' Skool Gamer Joined: Posts: 38
    Hope it gets released on Vita/3DS, you know since $ony Hearts Indies and Big N claims they support Indies, you'd think they'd help. Especially Nintendo 3DS needs more Fighter's.

    Will back this Friday when I get paid Good Luck CardboardRobotGames ^_^

    Bumping For Front Page, come on SRK show these guys some Love!!!

    Sorry for double post.
    GamerTag: NamiXJin
    PSN ID: JinZer069
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  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 4,659
    You got any big titty girls lined up for DLC? Because I just realized you don't got any.

    I knew something was missing but I just couldn't articulate what. Felt it in the back of my primal brain.
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    Swag is for girls. Class is for Maidens.

    GigaMaidens on deviantART and on twitter @GigaMaidens

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  • JackhalfaprayerJackhalfaprayer Joined: Posts: 7
    Want to throw my support behind getting this up on the front page. I lurk here a lot but this game is one I care enough about that I'd joined just to ask who do I pester to get this up on the front page?
  • S00perCamS00perCam Cold as ice Joined: Posts: 2,298
    Yeah, home consoles are pretty unlikely for a bunch of reasons. Portable consoles are a really nice fit, though! We've thought about a smartphone port on top of Vita/3DS, but it's challenging because we would NOT do the virtual buttons thing so many ports do, those always suck.

    A lot of people liked sf4 volt just saying
    Just because your buff, don't play tuff Cause I'll reverse the earth and turn your flesh back to dust
  • BlauzeBlauze Joined: Posts: 3
    I also registered to Shoryuken just to say that I've backed this game. Enough to get to design my own boss battle, actually. I had never backed in a game before, and never was interested in kickstarter games enough to back them, but I'm supporting this, 100%. I really, really want to play this, and I'm not even really into fighters like most of you, I'm not much of a competitive guy, I only play games for fun. At this point, I'm ready to save money to fund the whole thing myself, should the Kickstarter project fail :stuck_out_tongue:
    I mean, this game has everything I'm asking for. Mod support, retro graphic style, a unique gameplay through a classic genre, and that ghost AI really looks great and promising.
    I'm wishing Cardboard Robot Games the best of luck for this game.
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    How does your artist draw the character sprites? I can see it's a pixel style, but is each 'point' in the frame drawn at 1x1 pixel size; and then everything scaled up afterwards? Also what software does she use for editing and generating sprite sheets?

    I pitched in, best of luck with the campaign.
  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    edited November 2014
    Rabbit360 wrote: »
    How does your artist draw the character sprites? I can see it's a pixel style, but is each 'point' in the frame drawn at 1x1 pixel size; and then everything scaled up afterwards? Also what software does she use for editing and generating sprite sheets?

    I pitched in, best of luck with the campaign.

    She uses Photoshop and draws at the real pixel resolution, and then my engine blows it up x3. The native resolution is x3 what it looks like it is so that the movement can be smoother and the hitboxes can be more precise. She might switch over to GraphicsGale, but that hasn't happened yet.
  • BlauzeBlauze Joined: Posts: 3
    I've been reading Pocket Rumble posts on other forums and communities, especially discussions not started by yourself, and there is still a quite strongly negative opinion about the sprites. People boldly claim you're ripping SNK off and stealing their work. I know it's not true, but how does that affect you? Are you planning to rework on the graphic style again, should this kickstarted project not be funded?
    I personally feel like you can't pull off the "pocket" sprite style without people whining about ripoffs. It's simply too unique not to remind people about MotM for example. So you'll either have to live with haters talking about calling SNK so they'll sue you, or do something completely different... And possibly be hated for something else.
  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    Blauze wrote: »
    I've been reading Pocket Rumble posts on other forums and communities, especially discussions not started by yourself, and there is still a quite strongly negative opinion about the sprites. People boldly claim you're ripping SNK off and stealing their work. I know it's not true, but how does that affect you? Are you planning to rework on the graphic style again, should this kickstarted project not be funded?
    I personally feel like you can't pull off the "pocket" sprite style without people whining about ripoffs. It's simply too unique not to remind people about MotM for example. So you'll either have to live with haters talking about calling SNK so they'll sue you, or do something completely different... And possibly be hated for something else.

    It's frustrating, but ultimately something we just have to deal with when making the game so obviously trying to look like an NGPC game. It's important to remember we are still in pre-alpha, and while we are most likely
    keeping the same NGPC fighter style sprites, we are going for 3S level of smoothness in animations, the absolute maximum you can possibly get out of this resolution. Right now the animations are not a good representation of what the final product is going to look like. I think the smoother the animations look, the less you are going to hear about rips.
  • Leebee LinkLeebee Link (they/them) Joined: Posts: 2,260
    edited November 2014
    just read the update y'all posted. really great stuff. I appreciate the transparency. it must be very frustrating with regards to graphics complaints. the goals that you're setting out to accomplish are fantastic.

    I just wanted to let you know that I'm trying to signal boost this KS as much as I possibly can. there's so much passion that I can feel with every little bit of information that you folks put out.

    also, I wanted to extend myself as a person for voicework; I'd really like to contribute in any way I can. I can PM you with some samples...etc if you'd like. I hope some fellow SRK members feel as strongly as I do as well.

    cheers~
    JoJo's Bizarre Adventure- Mariah, Jotaro
    KoF XIII- Robert, Elisabeth, Ash
    Battle Fantasia- Urs, Ashley, Face
  • ashxuashxu Joined: Posts: 132
    I just noticed the damage in the game seems very low. Even with simple things like DP into Super.
  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    ashxu wrote: »
    I just noticed the damage in the game seems very low. Even with simple things like DP into Super.

    Tenchi's super isn't really powerful because of the damage (it doesn't do much more than a full upkick connect), it's powerful for 0f startup, high speed, eating other projectiles, and because you gain meter so quickly. At the moment, both Tenchi and Naomi have ~50 percent corner combos (although Tenchi has to catch you in the air with antler DP to pull that off), which is great because we want corner pressure to be a HUGE deal. You won't be doing massive damage off of BnBs (~18 percent), but there is definitely high damage stuff in the game.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    50% damage off corner combos only sounds low. You should be able to at least get close to that off a hit-confirm into super, like 3rd Strike.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • ashxuashxu Joined: Posts: 132
    18 percent isn't that much I don't think. That's like give or take SF4? Maybe a bit lower. (Assuming 200 damage average BnB damage with 1k HP average)

    There's quite a lot of supers in 3S that are 0-2f. Akuma's SA1 and Ryu's SA1 (Both FB Supers) are 2f and 3f respectively.
  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    d3v wrote: »
    50% damage off corner combos only sounds low. You should be able to at least get close to that off a hit-confirm into super, like 3rd Strike.
    and
    ashxu wrote: »
    18 percent isn't that much I don't think. That's like give or take SF4? Maybe a bit lower. (Assuming 200 damage average BnB damage with 1k HP average)

    There's quite a lot of supers in 3S that are 0-2f. Akuma's SA1 and Ryu's SA1 (Both FB Supers) are 2f and 3f respectively.

    The current design plan right now is to make the game mimic a tournament match in a 3 round structure (so much so that the loser can swap characters at the end of the round). High damage is really great when you are running a local tournament with multiple games in a match, but it kind of sucks when in you are in a ranked 1-game-only online environment. I don't think you should lose ranking from a grand total of two bad reads. This could have been remedied by having more rounds, but that felt kind of awkward and calming down damage solved the problem a lot less awkwardly. I do think we are definitely higher damage than SF4 though, although I don't play SF4 much anymore so I can't really confirm that. I think it's important to mention that Tenchi is the ONLY character that will have hit-confirm into super, other characters have EXs and Roman Cancels and transformations, so basing our game's damage off of the current hit-confirm to super is weirder than in other games.

    We are definitely in too early of a stage to commit to the damage, and I think beta testers will have a LOT of say as to whether or not we continue to enforce this, but as of right now we are designing it around the ranked online environment.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    Only one character with a hit confirm to super? That kinda tones down the "3S-ness" of it. I mean, one of the factors that made meter so important in 3S was how much having it changed the match ups and for a number of characters, that was due to the damage option they suddenly had off a hit confirm from meter. Now in a game that seems to want to emulate this meter dynamic from 3S, having the "hit-confirm to super" character not do much damage of a hit confirm kinda takes away from that.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    edited November 2014
    d3v wrote: »
    Only one character with a hit confirm to super? That kinda tones down the "3S-ness" of it. I mean, one of the factors that made meter so important in 3S was how much having it changed the match ups and for a number of characters, that was due to the damage option they suddenly had off a hit confirm from meter. Now in a game that seems to want to emulate this meter dynamic from 3S, having the "hit-confirm to super" character not do much damage of a hit confirm kinda takes away from that.

    It's too early to tell if ~30% off of a BnB with meter is a weak damage option relative to our game's damage, especially because Tenchi gains meter so quickly. Like I said, we are trying to keep those numbers small because we are balancing around ranked one-game matches. I think damage numbers for all characters are something that are going to naturally fluctuate as we get some of the more ridiculous characters in there (ex: Quinn's RC transformation in a game with no damage scaling), but right now these numbers seem like a good fit for both Tenchi and Naomi with ranked matches in mind.

    At the very least, I can promise you this: the numbers aren't going anywhere but up from where they are now.
    Post edited by CardboardRobotGames on
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    IMO, 30% is fine if said character has multiple stocks. But with only 1 stock, the meter option might not present enough of a threat or consequence for a bad read, considering that the player will have to rebuild that meter after use which means that the opposing player may be open to risking taking that 30% hit if just to deprive them of meter.

    This'll be especially problematic for Naomi since she needs to charge for meter which, if we think about it, she won't really get to do much in the middle of a heated match.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    Naomi gets a minimum of half a bar off of most knockdowns, and that's assuming you don't want to give up your oki. You'll only be getting knockdowns from overhead/uppercut/DP, but those are frequent enough that even if you are playing maximum rushdown you'll be getting a good amount of charge.

    If you hit someone with a super with Tenchi, even in someone's face, you can safely do two antlerairs for a quick 30% gain in meter. I'd consider that pretty threatening assuming the Tenchi player will be doing normal shoto stuff after that. Tenchi gains meter quick enough that he almost doesn't need stocks for supers to be a constant threat.
  • KristophKristoph sing my lullaby Joined: Posts: 430
    the damage stuff is going to differ wildly depending on peoples' tastes, but the main thing about "high vs low damage" for me isn't really 'how much max damage can you get?' so much as 'do pokes/stray hits feel painful?' high max damage is nice too but playing vega in ST for example, i like feeling as though i really am winning when i stab the dude in the face three times or whatever.

    an example of what i don't like is sf4 dhalsim where the dude keeps you fullscreen for a year and a half but you're still just not dead somehow. that game actually has pretty decent max damage because of ultras, but only the supermega beefiest normals feel satisfying to smack the opponent with.
  • Leebee LinkLeebee Link (they/them) Joined: Posts: 2,260
    damage looks fine; as long as using your meter actually feels like you get something for it (aka NOT SF4 series), then you're golden.

    there's nothing worse than having a game with 30% BnBs and then using half of your meter lets you do 36% instead. also important is giving characters with meter a lot of utility: Tenchi looks like the master of this with a quick-charging meter and infinitely useful 0f super fireball that prevents options/can follow others.

    regardless of zzzz-length HD combos, KOF XIII really got meter management & utility w/ EX moves right.
    JoJo's Bizarre Adventure- Mariah, Jotaro
    KoF XIII- Robert, Elisabeth, Ash
    Battle Fantasia- Urs, Ashley, Face
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    there's nothing worse than having a game with 30% BnBs and then using half of your meter lets you do 36% instead.

    Simple fix, BnB's do 25-30% depending on the character and with meter it goes up to 40-45%. Problem solved.
    regardless of zzzz-length HD combos, KOF XIII really got meter management & utility w/ EX moves right.

    Not really. XIII's focus on EX moves made a lot of non-meter reversals and anti airs garbage. There are very few regular DP's/flash kicks that are worth a damn in favor of making EX moves a stronger tool. You can say that it gave EX moves more utility than the meterless counterpart, but only because it stole that utility. That isn't good design to me. They did a better job with EX fireballs, but those aren't things you see super often.

    As for meter management, the only major thing XIII did correctly was move HD and drive cancels to a separate bar. That cleans up a lot of the mess 02 had and leaves your main bar for guard cancels and EX/Supers. That being said if XIII had less of a combo focus and people were using guard cancels and EX moves more, you'd be fighting to keep meter. As is people are okay with blocking and getting put in bad situations because one cr.B is all it takes to turn everything around.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • Bob199Bob199 Joined: Posts: 64
    5 days left and $3.5k to go until this finally gets funded, let's do this!
  • BlauzeBlauze Joined: Posts: 3
    I'm fairly sure the only thing this kickstarter project lacks is exposure. I'm confident that you will make it (even if it is without stretch goals) but if the project fails and if you could restart another one right after this one, you should go for it. Most people who backed would most likely do it again, I know I would, and you'd have extra days to get noticed by more potential players, websites or youtubers.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 4,659
    Did the 2BF guys ask you to put Zubaz in the game or was it your decision?
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    Swag is for girls. Class is for Maidens.

    GigaMaidens on deviantART and on twitter @GigaMaidens

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  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    PSYCH0J0SH wrote: »
    Did the 2BF guys ask you to put Zubaz in the game or was it your decision?

    they got the "design a boss fight" reward tier.
  • ashxuashxu Joined: Posts: 132
    Well congrats on getting funded this time

    I backed $10, maybe if the soundtrack is good and it's available later I'll buy it.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    Congratulations on getting funded.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • specsspecs Excuse me, princess! Joined: Posts: 6,380
    Huge congratulations!
    Carlos and Dave Anime Rave is the BEST damn anime review show on the internet! AnimeRave.xyz
  • Jinzer0Jinzer0 Ol' Skool Gamer Joined: Posts: 38
    Congrats!!!

    Wish I had $35K to throwaway to get a 3DS and Vita version.

    Love SvC:MotW on NGPC, does this mean we are still getting the PR ROM for NGPC?
    GamerTag: NamiXJin
    PSN ID: JinZer069
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  • CardboardRobotGamesCardboardRobotGames Joined: Posts: 34
    Jinzer0 wrote: »
    Congrats!!!

    Wish I had $35K to throwaway to get a 3DS and Vita version.

    Love SvC:MotW on NGPC, does this mean we are still getting the PR ROM for NGPC?

    Yup, the NGPC ROM is still happening and is free for everyone.
  • Jinzer0Jinzer0 Ol' Skool Gamer Joined: Posts: 38
    Cool, hope you upload a video on showing me(us) on how to get it on a NGPC? if possible?

    If not, I'll just play it on PC.

    Congrats again!!!
    GamerTag: NamiXJin
    PSN ID: JinZer069
    GGPO: jinzer0
    SuperCade: jinzer0
    ArcLive: jinzer0
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 4,659
    What is the story of this game, anyways? I don't think anything was said on that. You went into a description of the different mechanics of the characters, but said nothing about the story, which you dropped tidbits of in their descriptions. I would've done it the opposite way but that's just me.
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    Swag is for girls. Class is for Maidens.

    GigaMaidens on deviantART and on twitter @GigaMaidens

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  • Bob199Bob199 Joined: Posts: 64
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,657
    Damn that looks sick, I wish I had backed them.
  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,673
    Best watch that video in HD where it's 60 fps, that way some of the effects won't be skipped and you won't see invisible fireballs. I think Mike Z suggested something good in the comments section about it:

    "If you make the effects 50% transparent every other frame, instead of invisible every other frame, you get basically the same visual effect without the possibility of them completely disappearing in lower framerate videos"
  • veromirveromir Joined: Posts: 46
    edited May 2015
    Very good game. Best independent FG i have seen, and one of the best overall. At least from what is possible to gess from the gameplay video.
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    Bob199 wrote: »

    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,657
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Bob199 wrote: »

    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.
    I don't think I've ever seen you post something positive regarding people's projects or ideas.

    Anyway I actually like the new health bar. It shows how much damage is needed to kill the opponent in a really intuitive way. The only gripe with this system is because each hit does 1 stock of damage, chained light attack starters will take away more damage than 1 cr. MK xx special combo would. Also the developers have come up with some really cool and intuitive ideas that can be added to the fighting game genre, like the frame data counter hud right below the health bar for example. When this game comes out on steam greenlight, I'm definitely going to show my support and buy it.
  • PSYCH0J0SHPSYCH0J0SH Joined: Posts: 4,659
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Bob199 wrote: »

    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.
    I don't think I've ever seen you post something positive regarding people's projects or ideas.

    Anyway I actually like the new health bar. It shows how much damage is needed to kill the opponent in a really intuitive way. The only gripe with this system is because each hit does 1 stock of damage, chained light attack starters will take away more damage than 1 cr. MK xx special combo would. Also the developers have come up with some really cool and intuitive ideas that can be added to the fighting game genre, like the frame data counter hud right below the health bar for example. When this game comes out on steam greenlight, I'm definitely going to show my support and buy it.

    There is no "light/medium/heavy" trichotomy in this game. There is only punch and kick.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    Swag is for girls. Class is for Maidens.

    GigaMaidens on deviantART and on twitter @GigaMaidens

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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Bob199 wrote: »

    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.
    I don't think I've ever seen you post something positive regarding people's projects or ideas.

    Also the developers have come up with some really cool and intuitive ideas that can be added to the fighting game genre, like the frame data counter hud right below the health bar for example. When this game comes out on steam greenlight, I'm definitely going to show my support and buy it.

    That's because most of the things that get posted on FGD don't look good to me. If something actually looks good I will more than gladly give credit where it is due. Also this game gets a bonus star of pissing me off for stealing the Neo Geo Pocket art style but making a game that doesn't play anything like any Neo Geo Pocket game and basically missing the point entirely for what the NGPC was trying to do and why it was such an amazing handheld. It doesn't feel like an honest homage, it feels like a manipulative decision to get people more interested in the game.

    As for all of those awesome things they're "adding" to the genre, you should check out E's Laf. Not only does it have a visual representation of frame data, it straight up gives you frame advantage next to the combo counter, has a bar that tells you when you're in a jump capable state such as jump cancels or just normal jumping, and has one of the most in depth and complex training modes ever created. And that game is made by one dude.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 640
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



    My computer is still bunk and IRC on my phone is terrible. I'd stop by more if it was convenient.

    Frankly though the issue I have with the health bars is that longer combos will always be better all the time because everything, at least now, does the same damage and is an equal threat. This inherently gives rush down combo characters an advantage. Also, characters with longer confirms are now double the threat because not only do they get more time to confirm their hits into damage, they get more damage off the top anyways. If things start doing more than one pip of damage to balance it out you start running into dangerous territory of something like a low risk poke/pressure move doing more damage than a high risk juggle move or DP. A dedicated pip healthbar leaves too wide of a variable for damage. Everything does 8% minimum, which is already high for say a jab compared to most games, but is also really low for things like a DP. With this damage system the risk/reward is already skewed since a successful DP anti air gives you just as much reward as an extremely safe poke. I see it having the KoFXIII problem of people not being afraid to jump because your AA does 25% the damage my jump in combo will do so who cares.

    I just don't see these healthbars being anything more than a gimmick at best and at worst it's going to seriously affect character balance.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



    My computer is still bunk and IRC on my phone is terrible. I'd stop by more if it was convenient.

    Frankly though the issue I have with the health bars is that longer combos will always be better all the time because everything, at least now, does the same damage and is an equal threat. This inherently gives rush down combo characters an advantage. Also, characters with longer confirms are now double the threat because not only do they get more time to confirm their hits into damage, they get more damage off the top anyways. If things start doing more than one pip of damage to balance it out you start running into dangerous territory of something like a low risk poke/pressure move doing more damage than a high risk juggle move or DP. A dedicated pip healthbar leaves too wide of a variable for damage. Everything does 8% minimum, which is already high for say a jab compared to most games, but is also really low for things like a DP. With this damage system the risk/reward is already skewed since a successful DP anti air gives you just as much reward as an extremely safe poke. I see it having the KoFXIII problem of people not being afraid to jump because your AA does 25% the damage my jump in combo will do so who cares.

    I just don't see these healthbars being anything more than a gimmick at best and at worst it's going to seriously affect character balance.

    The game doesn't look to be a heavily combo-centric game though, especially with the limited number of normals.

    From what I'm seeing, it seems to be the the more damaging stuff will be mostly from hit confirming into meter powered options (EX or supers).
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    d3v wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



    My computer is still bunk and IRC on my phone is terrible. I'd stop by more if it was convenient.

    Frankly though the issue I have with the health bars is that longer combos will always be better all the time because everything, at least now, does the same damage and is an equal threat. This inherently gives rush down combo characters an advantage. Also, characters with longer confirms are now double the threat because not only do they get more time to confirm their hits into damage, they get more damage off the top anyways. If things start doing more than one pip of damage to balance it out you start running into dangerous territory of something like a low risk poke/pressure move doing more damage than a high risk juggle move or DP. A dedicated pip healthbar leaves too wide of a variable for damage. Everything does 8% minimum, which is already high for say a jab compared to most games, but is also really low for things like a DP. With this damage system the risk/reward is already skewed since a successful DP anti air gives you just as much reward as an extremely safe poke. I see it having the KoFXIII problem of people not being afraid to jump because your AA does 25% the damage my jump in combo will do so who cares.

    I just don't see these healthbars being anything more than a gimmick at best and at worst it's going to seriously affect character balance.

    The game doesn't look to be a heavily combo-centric game though, especially with the limited number of normals.

    From what I'm seeing, it seems to be the the more damaging stuff will be mostly from hit confirming into meter powered options (EX or supers).

    All it takes is someone who has a launcher of some sort or jab jab jab special to go nuts.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 34,342 mod
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



    My computer is still bunk and IRC on my phone is terrible. I'd stop by more if it was convenient.

    Frankly though the issue I have with the health bars is that longer combos will always be better all the time because everything, at least now, does the same damage and is an equal threat. This inherently gives rush down combo characters an advantage. Also, characters with longer confirms are now double the threat because not only do they get more time to confirm their hits into damage, they get more damage off the top anyways. If things start doing more than one pip of damage to balance it out you start running into dangerous territory of something like a low risk poke/pressure move doing more damage than a high risk juggle move or DP. A dedicated pip healthbar leaves too wide of a variable for damage. Everything does 8% minimum, which is already high for say a jab compared to most games, but is also really low for things like a DP. With this damage system the risk/reward is already skewed since a successful DP anti air gives you just as much reward as an extremely safe poke. I see it having the KoFXIII problem of people not being afraid to jump because your AA does 25% the damage my jump in combo will do so who cares.

    I just don't see these healthbars being anything more than a gimmick at best and at worst it's going to seriously affect character balance.

    The game doesn't look to be a heavily combo-centric game though, especially with the limited number of normals.

    From what I'm seeing, it seems to be the the more damaging stuff will be mostly from hit confirming into meter powered options (EX or supers).

    All it takes is someone who has a launcher of some sort or jab jab jab special to go nuts.
    From what they've shown, and what they've previously talked about, I don't think they're going for anything that goes like this. I highly doubt we'll see a character with a launcher.

    As for jab jab jab special, that'll only really happen if they screw up their frame data. In any case, all they need to do is make sure that you don't get to continue a combo after a special.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    Everyone (should) be mindful that if there isn't a new generation after my generation, the FGC (fighting game community) will basically become extinct, so it's important to think about the future.
    -Daigo Umehara

  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 4,255
    d3v wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    phoenixnl wrote: »
    JohnGrimm wrote: »
    Wow the health system looks silly. Can't say I care about it any more than I did after seeing the first kickstarter. If anything I like it even less.

    I like how they're willing to challenge really basic ideas in fighting games. I think it's a pretty interesting solution. I'm a little worried how the absence of chip damage will work out. But it's probably not a big deal, how they seem to have buffed throws quite a bit. If those aren't easy to tech, it should be fine.

    I can understand your frustration with them 'using' the NGPC style for something completely unlike the fighting games on that system though.

    Also, #SNKPlaymore misses you! I've been wondering what you thought of these new system updates, but you've been gone for quite some time now.



    My computer is still bunk and IRC on my phone is terrible. I'd stop by more if it was convenient.

    Frankly though the issue I have with the health bars is that longer combos will always be better all the time because everything, at least now, does the same damage and is an equal threat. This inherently gives rush down combo characters an advantage. Also, characters with longer confirms are now double the threat because not only do they get more time to confirm their hits into damage, they get more damage off the top anyways. If things start doing more than one pip of damage to balance it out you start running into dangerous territory of something like a low risk poke/pressure move doing more damage than a high risk juggle move or DP. A dedicated pip healthbar leaves too wide of a variable for damage. Everything does 8% minimum, which is already high for say a jab compared to most games, but is also really low for things like a DP. With this damage system the risk/reward is already skewed since a successful DP anti air gives you just as much reward as an extremely safe poke. I see it having the KoFXIII problem of people not being afraid to jump because your AA does 25% the damage my jump in combo will do so who cares.

    I just don't see these healthbars being anything more than a gimmick at best and at worst it's going to seriously affect character balance.

    The game doesn't look to be a heavily combo-centric game though, especially with the limited number of normals.

    From what I'm seeing, it seems to be the the more damaging stuff will be mostly from hit confirming into meter powered options (EX or supers).

    All it takes is someone who has a launcher of some sort or jab jab jab special to go nuts.
    From what they've shown, and what they've previously talked about, I don't think they're going for anything that goes like this. I highly doubt we'll see a character with a launcher.

    As for jab jab jab special, that'll only really happen if they screw up their frame data. In any case, all they need to do is make sure that you don't get to continue a combo after a special.

    Things happen, though. You can't account for everything unless you remove all possible variables. And let's say they do remove all possible variables, if every character gets boiled down into a 2 or 3 hit combo with how limited the move set already is, it's gonna be a real homogenized game. It'd feel like a case of too much going on to be a casual game like Divekick or Señor Footsies, not enough going on to be taken seriously like SF, KoF, SG, whatever.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
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